319 réponses à ce sujet

[Arctican]

I find SS only to be a problem when you are soloing or you are the last member of the team. No problems on Gold at all except versus Geth. Geth seems to be able to see through cloak regardless of soft or hard cover from my experiences.

[Chemicalist]

Air Quotes wrote...

1. Shadow decloaks MUCH faster than ANY other Infiltrator after a shot. 
2. Shadow Strike sometimes stops and Shadow strikes the front of the enemy instead of going behind. That gets her killed. 
3. Not being able to Shadow Strike an enemy that is right there next to you in plain sight
4. Not being able to Shadow Strike Atlases or Possesed Scions (you know about that)

Fix these!

Now to buffs. 

50% damage reduction during Shadow Strike and Heavy Melee. 

Faster Shadow Strike, faster melee

Ability to heavy melee right after Shadow Strike. Means it already locks on the enemy for heavy melee. Combo strike in other words. 

Light melee should have a radius of 2-3 meters and hit enemies even behind you. Like Dragoons do. 

Troll OP is gonna troll.

[Silav101]

Farosyrn wrote...
But really, try it for yourself. Take the shadow to gold/platinum and experience it for yourself.

I'm a fairly newish player, only recently playing in Gold. But it's very rare for me to extract successfully when NOT using the Shadow or Paladin. And I typically score either first or second by a large margin if I use those characters. 

Sure, I run into the same things that make SS rage-worthy at times, such as no-go SS'ing when the target is on a ramp/height differential, getting killed during SS because I was an idiot and went and activated it when enemies could see me; if I'm off-host it's sometimes a crap-shoot whether or not I actually hit target I wanted.

But playing aggressively but carefully and being aware of everything around typically means I'm killing everything short of an Atlas, Praetorian or Banshee all day every day. Never found myself across the map hiding somewhere. Typically I pop behind a box, TC, wait a bit, then run to another bit of cover, and then SS whatever it is. Never get hit that way unless there's some enemy I didn't notice nearby. Like a damnable Geth bomber...hate those things. The amount of times I've died mid-SS because I teleported INTO their stupid poop-bombs...

Modifié par Silav101, 15 novembre 2012 - 04:25 .

[mrcanada]

Character is fine.

[TrollBerzerker01]

Air Quotes wrote...

For morons I REPEAT. You can cloak FAR FAR away in hard cover, soft cover WHATEVER. SS a Phantom a MILE away and she will instantly melee you sometimes while the camera is still traveling.  That because you don't teleport with the camera, you teleport instantly like in Biotic Charge and that gives an enemy over a half a second to react and attack you. 

I played the **** out of Shadow and I know. And her cloak is buggy too. None of the infiltrators unloak as fast as a Shadow after a shot. Go ahead and try it. 

Welcome to Tactical Cloak. This is not exclusive to the Shadow. It is not a perfect invisibility aggro drop like a lot of people seem to think it is, enemies can still track you sometimes - especially if they SAW you cloak.

Phantoms are my primary targets as the Shadow. I do get unlucky from time to time and they'll hit me coming out of cloak, but it's VERY rare. Mostly because I don't cloak right in front of her face and then expect Shadow Strike to work. I either break LoS with her or wait for her to engage someone else, and then I do a Shadow Strike -> Heavy Melee combo which has never failed to instantly kill one on Gold. Sometimes Shadow Strike is enough if I'm using a powerful enough melee gear amp.

I'm sorry, but I play her a lot too, frequently in Gold because I find her to be one of the most effective classes and so she's one of my go-to options when I just want the game to go well. But you're either exaggerating or you're bad with her, or you expect Tactical Cloak to be invulnerability where the enemies will always stop engaging you after you activate it.

Now, I will not debate that the Shadow is bugged. Her inability to Shadow Strike Atlases is a problem. But so is the fact Shadow Strike currently benefits from power damage. If you're engaging an Atlas, you have two very viable options:

A) Do not fight the Atlas, break off and allow your allies to engage it (TEAM GAME) as you kill everything else, because you are deadly effective against every other unit in the game. Focusing on the Atlas isn't always a good idea, since if it's early in the round the game will just replace it. Kill some phantoms (which you ARE good at if you know how to do it) or dragoons (which you should be able to one-shot if you didn't take the useless shield damage sword evolution) or pretty much any other cerberus unit. It will take pressure off your allies and keep them from being flanked while fighting the Atlas, and reduce the round's enemy count.

Use your weapon and melee on the atlas. If it's focusing on you, hide in cover and fire shots at it between blasts from its canon - you should be able to know the rhythm of its shots if you're playing Gold. If it's not focusing on you, cloak and move around behind it and heavy melee it. If you took the armor damage sword evolution, this still does substantial damage to the Atlas. If it turns around to attack you, GREAT! You just exposed its vulnerable backside to your allies. If not, keep hitting it with the sword until it does.

[Farosyrn]

Silav101 wrote...

Farosyrn wrote...
But really, try it for yourself. Take the shadow to gold/platinum and experience it for yourself.

I'm a fairly newish player, only recently playing in Gold. But it's very rare for me to extract successfully when NOT using the Shadow or Paladin. And I typically score either first or second by a large margin if I use those characters.

Sure, I run into the same things that make SS rage-worthy at times, such as no-go SS'ing when the target is on a ramp/height differential, getting killed during SS because I was an idiot and went and activated it when enemies could see me; if I'm off-host it's sometimes a crap-shoot whether or not I actually hit target I wanted.

But playing carefully and being aware of everything around typically means I'm killing everything short of an Atlas, Praetorian or Banshee all day every day.

Sure, it works just fine - until it doesn't, and as the Shadow doesn't allow for mistakes, it also doesn't allow for bugs. Those usually get you killed and leave you in the middle of a huge mess.

The sugguestion to try for himself was actually directed at Annomander, since he said before that he refuses to play infiltrators. I do know that there are some people who do quite decently with the shadow.

[Darksaberexile]

TrollBerzerker01 wrote...
Now, I will not debate that the Shadow is bugged. Her inability to Shadow Strike Atlases is a problem. But so is the fact Shadow Strike currently benefits from power damage. If you're engaging an Atlas, you have two very viable options:

A) Do not fight the Atlas, break off and allow your allies to engage it (TEAM GAME) as you kill everything else, because you are deadly effective against every other unit in the game. Focusing on the Atlas isn't always a good idea, since if it's early in the round the game will just replace it. Kill some phantoms (which you ARE good at if you know how to do it) or dragoons (which you should be able to one-shot if you didn't take the useless shield damage sword evolution) or pretty much any other cerberus unit. It will take pressure off your allies and keep them from being flanked while fighting the Atlas, and reduce the round's enemy count.

Use your weapon and melee on the atlas. If it's focusing on you, hide in cover and fire shots at it between blasts from its canon - you should be able to know the rhythm of its shots if you're playing Gold. If it's not focusing on you, cloak and move around behind it and heavy melee it. If you took the armor damage sword evolution, this still does substantial damage to the Atlas. If it turns around to attack you, GREAT! You just exposed its vulnerable backside to your allies. If not, keep hitting it with the sword until it does.

This has been my experience, however it also sometimes happens (at least in my experience) that you end up as the only one left and have to solo the Atlas. This results in a long, drawn out fight that gets annoying. (Granted, some of the problem is probably that the Talon isn't meant to solo Atlases, but I prefer it to the piranha)

[BridgeBurner]

Air Quotes wrote...

For morons I REPEAT. You can cloak FAR FAR away in hard cover, soft cover WHATEVER. SS a Phantom a MILE away and she will instantly melee you sometimes while the camera is still traveling.  That because you don't teleport with the camera, you teleport instantly like in Biotic Charge and that gives an enemy over a half a second to react and attack you. 

I played the **** out of Shadow and I know. And her cloak is buggy too. None of the infiltrators unloak as fast as a Shadow after a shot. Go ahead and try it. 

She bugged up the ass and if you're too blind to see or you don't play her then crawl back under your bridge. 

The shadow has the same tactical cloak as any other infiltrator; its copy and pasted code. If you don't believe me, crack open the Earth DLC in your ME3 folder (seen as how you're on PC) and take a look. The cloak is no different from any other infiltrator's cloak.

If you wish to display that hard cover aggro drop doesn't work for the shadow, provide video evidence to back up your claim.  Don't worry, I will record a solo video with the shadow for this, just so as we know it works properly.

I've explained the mechanics as clearly as I can. Cloak is not meant to be an iWin button, as most of the BSN seem to think, its supposed to be a powerful tool, which when used properly can be very powerful; like everything else when used improperly it will produce sub-par results.

You can call me a moron all you like, that doesn't change the fact that you are clearly not using cloak as the mechanics of the game dictate, and whining on the BSN because an enemy detected you and melee'd you because you cloaked when you were visible to the AI, or alerted it by being in its vicinity, or alerted it by shooting or casting another power is not grounds to have buffs granted to what is already (in team games) a very cheap and easy to use ability.

Once again; if you cloak in hard cover you will not be detected prior to completing your SS. For those of you complaining about this not being viable, or fast enough etc, that doesn't matter, no one is forcing you to use SS as your sole source of damage; in fact, like many other classes I highly doubt bioware designed the shadow to spend its entire time teleporting around the map slashing stuff and nothing else.

Strong melee attacks have significant wind-up times, if you want a faster SS, then the damage of the ability needs to be reduced accordingly.

If you want invincibility frames whilst performing the attack, then the damage needs to be reduced accordingly as a balancing factor.

Your arguments consist of nothing more than subjectivuty and whining devoid of any kind of factual basis to back them up; none of which is valid as a reason for an ability being buffed.

I've explained multiple times WHY the enemies are behaving the way they are in regards to cloak and SS and you still won't listen or even remotely acknowledge that fact.

[Relix28]

Air Quotes wrote...

I'm not asking for damage buffs.

I'm asking to buff Shadow Strike either by giving it invulnerability frames or DR or stagger resistance or by making it faster so when is bugs on you, you would not get destroyed in a second.

It doesn't need invulnerability frames, DR or stagger resistance. What YOU need to do, is learn how to avoid getting staggered out of your SS. Hint: break the LoS before SS'ing your target, or make sure the enemy is not targeting you. It's pretty simple, really.


The only thing that needs fixin' on the Shadow is the unability to SS the Atlas.

[BridgeBurner]

Relix28 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

I'm not asking for damage buffs.

I'm asking to buff Shadow Strike either by giving it invulnerability frames or DR or stagger resistance or by making it faster so when is bugs on you, you would not get destroyed in a second.

It doesn't need invulnerability frames, DR or stagger resistance. What YOU need to do, is learn how to avoid getting staggered out of your SS. Hint: break the LoS before SS'ing your target, or make sure the enemy is not targeting you. It's pretty simple, really.


The only thing that needs fixin' on the Shadow is the unability to SS the Atlas.

Thank you for than concise answer. That's what I've been trying to tell AirQuotes for several posts now, but you phrased it a lot better than I could.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

MuKen wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...
It's completely unnatural, artificial and cheap for the enemy to instantly turn around and instantly melee something that he wasn't aware of and never saw coming. 

Except that they don't do that, as many have tried to explain.  They only turn around if they ARE aware of you.

As I told you before, if an enemy is not aware of ANY player, they will occasionally pick a random player and become aware of them regardless of where they are or if they are cloaked.  That will occasionally be you, and that is why you believe that they are hitting you when unaware. If you only SS enemies that are aware of some other player, then this won't ever happen and they won't ever interrupt you.  This is easy to tell if you watch their behavior.

Biodevs cannot remove this mechanic without writing a whole new enemy ai, because the current ai would spend significant amounts of time wandering lost nowhere near any players without this mechanism.

They become aware of you as soon as you hit them, if not slightly before.  Then they act with a reaction time of 0 seconds.  If you slash someone in the back and they didn't see it coming, they shouldn't have such incredible awareness to where they immediately know exactly where your head is to elbow it.  Or to perform a complex sync kill manuever.

The awareness of the AI in this game is insane.  They're coded in a way as to know your exact position on the map at all times.  I'm convinced that whether or not something hits you out of shadow strike is totally dependent on a roll of the dice.

It isn't just with shadow strike.  If you are far away from the enemy, behind cover with no line of sight, they should not be headshotting you with pinpoint accuracy the moment you peak your head out of cover.  It should take at least a little time to notice where you are, set up for a shot, line up the shot, and then shoot.  But because enemies are coded to have this supernatural awareness to pinpoint your location anywhere on the map, there is little you can do to prevent this.

The best you can do is stay out of sight, and this will improve your chances, but at the end of the day, it's still luck and not skill that determines whether you are hit out of cloak.

[CronisN7]

the whole SS attack animation needs to be like 50-75% faster. its so long guardians can literally turn around and block with their shields or troopers can melee/stun you.

[HiGamerCAT]

Pyth the Bull wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

By the way, something about your avatar makes all your threads seem like satire. It's that condescending look, I think.

It looks like a skanky **** who got left in an alley after a gang rape.

I kind of like it.

...WTF?!!..

[TrollBerzerker01]

Air Quotes wrote...

You CAN'T AVOID it. That's the point. I did a Shadow Solo-

There's your problem. You're an infiltrator who requires melee. Of course TC isn't going to work properly. It barely works for the guys who use it at ranged in solo games.

[Relix28]

Air Quotes wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

I'm not asking for damage buffs.

I'm asking to buff Shadow Strike either by giving it invulnerability frames or DR or stagger resistance or by making it faster so when is bugs on you, you would not get destroyed in a second.

It doesn't need invulnerability frames, DR or stagger resistance. What YOU need to do, is learn how to avoid getting staggered out of your SS. Hint: break the LoS before SS'ing your target, or make sure the enemy is not targeting you. It's pretty simple, really.


The only thing that needs fixin' on the Shadow is the unability to SS the Atlas.

Thank you for than concise answer. That's what I've been trying to tell AirQuotes for several posts now, but you phrased it a lot better than I could.

You CAN'T AVOID it. That's the point. I did a Shadow Solo again now in 50 minutes on Reactor vs Cerberus. And you just CAN'T avoid getting meleed out of SS because Shadow takes her sweet ass time to land it. I did everything right. Cloaking in hard cover, even doing a dodge after if then SS'ing and they will still melee sometimes. So don't tell me how to play. 

Thats not always enough for enemies to "loose interest" in you. Pay attention to enemy behavior instead.

Example: You see a Phantom, and she starts palm blasting at you. What do you do?

-Cloak, side flip, SS - more often than not, it will result in you getting melee staggered
-Going into hard cover, Cloak, side flip, SS - same as above

-Cloak, move away (possibly going out of sight), and wait for the indication that the Phantom lost interest in you, THEN use your SS - dead phantom

A good indication that a Phantom lost interest in you, is seeing her backing off and going into hard cover (if you play solo), or seeing her go after a teammate instead of you (team environment).
Once you learn to recognize these rather simple behavioral AI patterns, your life as an N7 Shadow becomes much easier. I used to struggle just like you are right now, but once I incorporated that knowledge to my gameplay, getting staggered out my SS became the thing of the past.

Modifié par Relix28, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:40 .

[SlabHardcheese]

My only issue is how much time it takes between initiating SS and actually doing it. If you are running with a team, 70% of the time someone else will have taken out the enemy and you'll be striking air even though you started the SS before they initiated their biotic charge or whatever. I find myself running away from other players just to get kills. You can aim for a non- captain at the back of the pack but otherwise you are still slicing air while your teammates are already killing other mobs.

[SlabHardcheese]

Sorry. Dup post. 

Modifié par SlabHardcheese, 15 novembre 2012 - 07:48 .

[The Mysterious Stranger]

+0.75 Should say everything is good except that the melee should not hit more enemies, but maybe a small damage bonus instead. And not 50% dmg resistance during shadow strike.

[MuKen]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

They become aware of you as soon as you hit them, if not slightly before.  Then they act with a reaction time of 0 seconds.  If you slash someone in the back and they didn't see it coming, they shouldn't have such incredible awareness to where they immediately know exactly where your head is to elbow it.  Or to perform a complex sync kill manuever.

That's just what you think by animations.  If they turn around, that means they became aware of you before you did it.  Any time you use either of the Shadow's skills from cloak while targetting an unaware enemy, they become paralyzed and cannot take any action they haven't already started.  Test this out for yourself the next time you see an enemy chasing someone else, they will freeze for either SS or ES if done from cloak.

Air Quotes wrote...
But that is the point. That SHE IS IN HARD cover with no interest in me. I cloak in cover too, SS her and she melees me faster than SS lands. 

For the third time, YOU DON'T KNOW she has no interest in you unless you SEE her actively doing something to someone else. If she isn't currently aware of anybody, then she could randomly decide to target you regardless of where you are or what you are doing.  If she's in hard cover, then she's not moving and therefore you have no idea who she's currently aware of or who she's targetting.

You are ignoring a key game mechanic, then claiming things are random when they would not be if you paid attention to that mechanic.  If she's in cover, then she's just sitting there and you have no way of knowing if she is focused on someone else, and thus she may become aware of you using the "find a player" mechanism.

If you only SS people that you see actively attacking or chasing another player, it won't happen.

Modifié par MuKen, 15 novembre 2012 - 09:12 .