111 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

The Mad Hanar wrote...
Don't get me wrong, I understand that becoming a leader of a country takes a tremendous amount of hard work. It also requires luck, financial backers, charisma along side the drive to go through that struggle. Now, does that sound average to you? The average person may not know that Italy was in the Axis, but most of the people I know are aware of who Hitler is and how he rose to power. Thus, the average person has the knowledge in their mind to not make that mistake. What I'm trying to say is that only basic knowledge of history is usually sufficient in being a responsible citizen. I'm not calling any President in our history lazy nor am I saying that taking civil responsibility should be ignored, what I am saying is that specific historical knowledge isn't needed. Also, 99% of us 20 somethings could learn all this history, but it only takes one guy to screw it all up for us and it is really out of our hands.

I mean really, am I better off as a citizen for knowing that Franz Fernidad effectively caused WWI? Really?

The average person I know is not aware of how Hitler rose to power. He essentially staged a coup within his own party. I mean, they know he invaded Poland, France, Russia, and tried really hard to invade Britain, but yeah. Those last two parts didn't work out so well. Why was Hitler allowed to rise within the party? I think that's an important question and a lesson all by itself. Reparations demanded of Germany after WWI were unduly harsh and led to an unhappy Germany which then led them to overcompensate and accept someone who would lead them back to glory.

As for Franz Ferdinand, I think you're better off because you can see that A and B usually lead to C which helps you understand and draw conclusions when you're watching the news. Anyone even remotely familiar with the Vietnam War and Russia/Afghanistan war can't have thought "This will be great!" when U.S. boots landed on the ground in Afghanistan.

Whether you're ever in a position to create legislation or lead because of that knowledge is, as you said, a combination of luck and hard work. But, as for the 99% of 20-somethings, if you're an American, do you think the "99%" didn't have an effect on the election? Regardless of whether you're in politics there was an enormous, nation-wide movement in direct opposition to the 1% and did have an effect, both directly and indirectly, on the election.

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai67 wrote...

I'm a history nerd and I hated most of my history classes. Boring. I would rather read and do papers on my own. Not to mention the textbooks, at least in the US, are atrocious. Get what you can out of formal history classes and do the rest on your own. You can educate yourself pretty well with some discipline.

I like the History in an Hour e-book series, for reading when I have little time. Medievalists.net is also a tremendous resource- they link to up to date academic articles on a wide range of subjects.

Pretty much this. The only good history teacher I had was in the 8th grade but beyond that they weren't good at all. Most of what I've learned about history has been on my own, not through some educational sistem here.

[Monica21]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

But seriously, this is a thread on History not Politics. I'm gonna stop commenting because I don't want to get banned. If you want to continue this conversation with me, shoot me a PM.

Knowledge of history directly affects political decisions and political outcomes. You can't have one without the other.

[TEWR]

Monica21 wrote...

Knowledge of history directly affects political decisions and political outcomes. You can't have one without the other.

Yeah, but I think what Hanar was trying to say was that talking about current politics as seems likely to happen here will result in the thread being closed.

Do the mods close down threads discussing ancient politics? From what I've seen, either ancient politics have never been discussed or it's just never been notably done. 

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:42 .

[Emzamination]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


If you had read that, you'd have realized that Monica said she wasn't sure if you were trolling or stupid. Not that you were both.

Though I'm certainly leaning towards both now.... <_<.

Actually her statement implies that she believes I was the former and is leaning towards the latter. Continue to argue semantics all you want, I've had my fill of this.

and F.y.I :  year ahead of you.

[Jarl Johnnie Walker]

Oh I love history, but obviously not every does. It's not necessarily a bad nor a good thing though. History repeats itself in the end, but sometimes it does prove worthy to learn it. Learn from the mistakes of others. I don't dwell on the past, but I analyze it so that I don't make the same mistake(s). Some people learn it, but don't understand it thus they tend to not like it.

Some young people don't know much about history because they didn't live through it like older people. They probably know about it and probably know the gist, but that's really it unless they're actually interested in it.

Everyone is different. Like some people think it's pointless to read fictional novels, but the thing is just about every story, whether it be true or not, has some kind of meaning. Whether you realize it or not.

Some people don't like science thus they don't know much about it because they have no interest in learning it.

The people that don't know much about history have no interest in learning it.

Age is just a number, it doesn't determine the maturity or intelligence level of someone.
They say older people have just experienced more and that they may be the case, but that doesn't mean that they learned anything. And a young person can experience a lot. It just depends on your past, how you analyze situations, whether or not you learn from other people's experiences, your perspective, the list goes on.

Learn from the past and look to the future.

[TEWR]

and F.y.I : year ahead of you.

In what, age? I'm 20. You said you're 19.

I'm older then you.

That's the only thing I can think you're trying to say you're a year ahead of me in.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:45 .

[TEWR]

Johnnie Walker wrote...

Oh I love history, but obviously not every does. It's not necessarily a bad nor a good thing though. History repeats itself in the end, but sometimes it does prove worthy to learn it. Learn from the mistakes of others. I don't dwell on the past, but I analyze it so that I don't make the same mistake(s). Some people learn it, but don't understand it thus they tend to not like it.

Some young people don't know much about history because they didn't live through it like older people. They probably know about it and probably know the gist, but that's really it unless they're actually interested in it.

Everyone is different. Like some people think it's pointless to read fictional novels, but the thing is just about every story, whether it be true or not, has some kind of meaning. Whether you realize it or not.

Some people don't like science thus they don't know much about it because they have no interest in learning it.

The people that don't know much about history have no interest in learning it.

Age is just a number, it doesn't determine the maturity or intelligence level of someone.
They say older people have just experienced more and that they may be the case, but that doesn't mean that they learned anything. And a young person can experience a lot. It just depends on your past, how you analyze situations, whether or not you learn from other people's experiences, your perspective, the list goes on.

Learn from the past and look to the future.

I like this post. I like this poster. Sensible, mature, and intelligent.

[Monica21]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Actually, I'd like to discuss history now. Who are some intelligent monarchs in our history I could take a look at, for inspiration for a King character I'm looking to write?

Not a king, but Catherine the Great is on my mind because I just read a book about her. A German princess, married the nephew of Empress Elizabeth, had her own spies throughout the various palaces, staged a coup not long after the Empress died, and then had her husband assassinated.

Modifié par Monica21, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:51 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Hell if I know OP. You've just got to embrace the fact that the human race is doomed and get ready to live the post-apocalyptic life.

[Monica21]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Knowledge of history directly affects political decisions and political outcomes. You can't have one without the other.

Yeah, but I think what Hanar was trying to say was that talking about current politics as seems likely to happen here will result in the thread being closed.

Do the mods close down threads discussing ancient politics? From what I've seen, either ancient politics have never been discussed or it's just never been notably done. 

I think they close down threads on all politics. I'm on my last strike, so I'm not taking any chances.

Understand. It's not my intent to create a Republican vs. Democrat debate. My attempt is to point out how knowledge of history lends itself to a more informed electorate. The whole point of studying history is that it matters now, it's not just a date of some obscure event in the past.

[Jarl Johnnie Walker]

Also, we may not be leaders of the world or a country, but we can interpret their problems into our own in a way. We can relate it. Our problem may not be as big as their problem, but when you throw aside the media attention, the politic people, and the power that the person holds, you'd be surprised at much their situation can relate to yours.

We all have little wars and conflicts of our own, we just lack the power and military to make it into a real war. All the past wars have been over some stupid debate, differences, perception, greed, and just lust for power. We have little situations like everyday.. just like this thread.

Modifié par Johnnie Walker, 15 novembre 2012 - 07:04 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

The History has always been useless to ordinary people. It's only good for wise people and humanistic students.
Current generation is worse than anyting before, as a rule. So I suppose their knowledge of history is even thinner.

[Jarl Johnnie Walker]

Lol. Me too. I use to get all crazy into debates back in the day. Until I realized that you cannot change the views of another. A lot of people cannot admit they're wrong and learn from what another is saying. They'll just continue to be stubborn. But the mature ones that I do friendly debate with, take what I say and actually learn from it. Just as I have learned from others.

I usually don't jump in them at all anymore.

I'll just say my two sense then gtfo.

I agree though. Some parts in history are just irrelevant to me, but it may be relevant to another. I just depends on what YOU want to learn, not what OTHERS want you to learn. =)

Modifié par Johnnie Walker, 15 novembre 2012 - 07:20 .

[Naughty Bear]

Currently don't give a damn for history. Was interested once (Loved the Egyptians, Mayans and Incans) when I was younger but as I grew up, my interest in the future was grew more.

Love hearing news about new advancements in technology.

[Jarl Johnnie Walker]

Agreed Mr. Hanar.

I'm 20. Turn 21 in April.


And Naughty Bear, me too. I like both history and new technology.

[Lotion Soronarr]

"Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"


Learning history is interesting. Not only that, it is highly educational. By knowing the past you get to know and understand humanity better.

Now I was lucky to have a GREAT history teacher. Unlike many others, he didn't bothers us with memorizing so many dates and silly details. What he focused was causes, triggers and consequences. Understanding the state of the world at a given point in time (social, cultural, political, territorial,etc..) and how it influenced what happened next.
It was probably the most interesting class and a big eye opener. And frankly I think it's the only proper approach to history.

Too many people just parrot dates and events, without actually understanding the context.
Without actually understanding what drove certain events.
Such "knowledge" is incomplete..polluted...fractured. Gives a distorted image of history..

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 15 novembre 2012 - 07:44 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Emzamination wrote...

I'm 19 and I don't care about old bones long forgotten.Let old men argue over what they lived, I wasn't there so it doesn't matter to me, all that matters is my youth, the future and shaping my own history.

GTHU!

Some Geth wrote...
I am 19 as well and I think history is f**king fantastic.

Thanks for liking.

---
About myself:

I have bachelor's degree in History. Thanks for annihilating 'History of the World' branch in our universities, I have no desire to get Master degree (in another branches).

[Binary_Helix 1]

I absolutely love history. The History Channel back in it's heyday sparked that drive in me and then the internet enabled me access to all sorts of viewpoints which the classroom never would. History is fascinating because the human condition is the same no matter what time period it is. A real history lesson about how savage mankind is overdue for a lot of people sadly.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 15 novembre 2012 - 08:11 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

"Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"


Learning history is interesting. Not only that, it is highly educational. By knowing the past you get to know and understand humanity better.

Now I was lucky to have a GREAT history teacher. Unlike many others, he didn't bothers us with memorizing so many dates and silly details. What he focused was causes, triggers and consequences. Understanding the state of the world at a given point in time (social, cultural, political, territorial,etc..) and how it influenced what happened next.
It was probably the most interesting class and a big eye opener. And frankly I think it's the only proper approach to history.

Too many people just parrot dates and events, without actually understanding the context.
Without actually understanding what drove certain events.
Such "knowledge" is incomplete..polluted...fractured. Gives a distorted image of history..

I agree with you again. 

Those numbers and dates are secondary and not so important.
Most important matters are the socio-political groups and their relation to economy and also inspiring charismatic individuals.
Philosophy of History is the hardest and most interesting knowledge to seek.

[mr_afk]

VirtualSoldier27 wrote...

I am 27,and yet I have studied the American Revolution,The Civil War,World War 1 and especially World War 2

yet,when I try to talk to people around the same age I am,they are like "What", its saddening how little they know about it,they cant even tell you what year Pearl Harbor was,or worse yet,they cant even tell you wich countries were apart of the Axis in WW2

Just out of interest, what is it about 'history' that you want people to know about?

If it's just the ability to rattle off names, dates, and statistics, I don't know if it's really all that meaningful. If it's about appreciating the sacrifice that some people made to make your country what it is, fighting for freedom/democracy etc. I suppose it's sort of a nice gesture - but a history lesson isn't necessary to understand sacrifice, and knowing names and dates isn't really going to change anything.

As a part of academia, history does help humankind as a whole to develop as a species. It allows us to look back and understand how and why things happened the way they did, to learn from the past, and it helps us form our cultural identity. But I can think of much more relevant things for the general public to learn before analysing the past. A greater awareness and participation in the present, rather than in the past, would undoubtably be more beneficial. I would think that current social injustices would be more important then those that existed hundreds of years ago (although that's not to say they still aren't important).

I personally find certain aspects of history interesting - the past is an amazing place. There's a reason why books, games, and movies like to explore the past. It's like a completely different world where our imaginations can run free. It's a little unfortunate how history is basically one long, sordid tale of war and exploitation, where we discover the best ways to kill each other..

Anyhow, not everyone likes the same thing, and I do not believe that 'history' intrinsically makes you a smarter or better person.