285 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashen One]

VaultingFrog wrote...

To provide a place where constructive criticism can be discussed and possible improvements made

I think you entirely missed the point of this parody thread.

The thread was not posted to criticize a weapon, it is a parody of another thread that claimed "weapon X is good because I outscored other players with it" using a screenshot as "proof" of the weapon's worth with no other valuable insight (what weapons were the other people using? How good were the other players? was the OP ignoring objectives and exploiting the infinite respanws? Did he use high level consumables, and a character that can buff any weapon to be absurdly powerful, like an Infiltrator or Destroyer?)

The OP is mocking a stupid argument, and the Shuriken is the example he chose to use.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 15 novembre 2012 - 08:47 .

[Xaijin]

chipsandwich wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Here's what would happen in a lobby with decent players:

1. you SS a priority target, someone else using a proper class kills the target before the ridiculously long animation can finish
2. you stagger a target (centurion etc.) and someone else kills it.
3. You go to melee another target, but after one melee someone else headshots it and kills it
4. Staggered target is already dead
5. All the enemies on the other side of the map are already dead too and the wave is over.

IMO the best you can do is synapsefire's claymore build, the 3-shot bomber. Use shadow strike sparingly and only against bosses by abusing that power reload cancel cheese tactic. Or dare I say, electric slash is more useful than SS when playing with OP hax players. Still, very hard to make work, but I'm still annoyed with trying to find out how to Phoenix properly in OP hax lobbies without having to resort to the Reegar/Acolyte, so I'll leave further Shadow justification to someone else.

Use a scorpion with warp ammo. Stun lock death cheese, and synergy with both whip powers. Ridiculous splosions all day erry day.

[MIA115]

I think that the Shruiken is actually a decent gun for any class/setup on either Bronze or Silver. Not that it is the first choice for weapon classes or anything, but it is good for doing decent damage with a quick cooldown.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

If you think the Hornet qualifies as a bad weapon to the degree that you list it alongside the Disciple, I would say you either haven't used it enough and are speaking from ignorance, or you need to L2P.

I do agree that "I scored X points with weapon Y; therefore Y is a great weapon" is a silly argument.

Lord_Sirian wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

Please, do so. I score pretty high with Hornet on any class I use it with.

All it takes is using the stability consumable.

 

Fine.. I didn't want to do this, but:



For
those who are unaware, Jay is a MUCH better player than I am. For me to
outscore him, he needs to be using a horrible weapon. For me to
outscore him by 85k, the weapon has to be absolutely and totally awful.

Guess which weapon he was using this game? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

This argument for the Hornet being bad is ironically more ridiculous than the type of argument this thread is making fun of.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 15 novembre 2012 - 10:09 .

[Xaijin]

upinya slayin wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...
Hornet, Disciple, Argus, GPR, CAR, Arc Pistol, Striker, GPSMG, Krysae.

Geth Plasma SMG is actually good dude... like good enough for our high weapon standards.

Put both clip mods on it with AP IV ammo... aim for the head like always. 4-5 dead mooks per clip, and very respectable boss damage.

AP ammo makes the weapon IMO... I couldn't believe the boss damage, especially when Banshees stopped jumping and I could focus right on her head.

Give it a try... doesn't have to be on a Geth class or an Infiltrator to thrive... just needs AP IV ammo.

I was very suprised on how good the GPSMG was on gold with amps and mods. I used it on a GE (no hunter mode)
wa splaying with a random (level 20 GI with valiant V) and 2 friends (level 4 AV with a raptor) and (level 12ish kroguard can't remember the wepaon but it wasn't a very good one) I expected the random to top the scoreboard. nope my GPSMG did and in second was my friend with the level 4 AV and a raptor. That random was terrible lol

The main thing i'm trying to say is the GPSMG is a really good weapon. The locust isn't that bad anymore after all the buffs either. The only one i hated suing out of my SMgs for the challenge was the hornet

Compared to what.

That's the problem that you and Invaderone seem to have especially, and something the BW team for rather obvious reason refuses to recognize in the metagame, cause they would like to try all the guns that they spent time, energy and manpower making.

There are in fact, objective absolutes, whether you choose to acknowledge them or not.

Every time you or anyone else says "Just stick amps and mods on this X and it's great", it quite literally automatically invalidates your own argument. Yeah, it's "great" on a completely relative scale.

Sticking phasic rounds on hurricane and calling it almost as good as the reegar for shields is something you can do, but you can also drive a car with your feet. Doesn't mean it's optimal, sound, sane, or even a good idea, especially when the obvious caveat of sticking AP rounds on a reegar is staring you in the face unsaid, with only the factor of distance in the hurricane's favor.

MEMP can be played in single channel thinker style, but it's rather obviously not designed that way. Synergy is the name of the game, and the higher a weapon's synergy factors, the more obvious its utility becomes, and there are a great number of weapons that don't make the grade, and sticking all those excess amps and mods on a mediocre weapon may alleviate your boredom, but it sure as hell isn't enhancing your performance.

Modifié par Xaijin, 15 novembre 2012 - 10:11 .

[upinya slayin]

Ashen Earth wrote...

VaultingFrog wrote...

To provide a place where constructive criticism can be discussed and possible improvements made

I think you entirely missed the point of this parody thread.

The thread was not posted to criticize a weapon, it is a parody of another thread that claimed "weapon X is good because I outscored other players with it" using a screenshot as "proof" of the weapon's worth with no other valuable insight (what weapons were the other people using? How good were the other players? was the OP ignoring objectives and exploiting the infinite respanws? Did he use high level consumables, and a character that can buff any weapon to be absurdly powerful, like an Infiltrator or Destroyer?)

The OP is mocking a stupid argument, and the Shuriken is the example he chose to use.

It would have been more effective had he actually got 75 SMG kills. I can carry a shuriken with a krogan and melee myself to 180k points. doens't prove the gun point though.

[upinya slayin]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

If you think the Hornet qualifies as a bad weapon to the degree that you list it alongside the Disciple, I would say you either haven't used it enough and are speaking from ignorance, or you need to L2P.

I do agree that "I scored X points with weapon Y; therefore Y is a great weapon" is a silly argument.

Lord_Sirian wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

Please, do so. I score pretty high with Hornet on any class I use it with.

All it takes is using the stability consumable.

 

Fine.. I didn't want to do this, but:



For
those who are unaware, Jay is a MUCH better player than I am. For me to
outscore him, he needs to be using a horrible weapon. For me to
outscore him by 85k, the weapon has to be absolutely and totally awful.

Guess which weapon he was using this game? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

This argument for the Hornet being bad is ironically more ridiculous than the type of argument this thread is making fun of.

Thats score doesn't add up. should be abut 50k lower total score. espcially since objectives weren't milked (full time bonus on credits) only way the happened is using 5 rockets on wave 11 spawns (you can get about 10k per spawn if you get 2 banshees, 3 brutes,a nd 2 ravagers which is usually a spawn)

[Ashen One]

upinya slayin wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

VaultingFrog wrote...

To provide a place where constructive criticism can be discussed and possible improvements made

I think you entirely missed the point of this parody thread.

The thread was not posted to criticize a weapon, it is a parody of another thread that claimed "weapon X is good because I outscored other players with it" using a screenshot as "proof" of the weapon's worth with no other valuable insight (what weapons were the other people using? How good were the other players? was the OP ignoring objectives and exploiting the infinite respanws? Did he use high level consumables, and a character that can buff any weapon to be absurdly powerful, like an Infiltrator or Destroyer?)

The OP is mocking a stupid argument, and the Shuriken is the example he chose to use.

It would have been more effective had he actually got 75 SMG kills.

And even with a 75 SMG kill medal it would still be a bad argument.

[UKStory135]

Miniditka77 wrote...

UKStory135 wrote...

The only Uncommon+ guns that I feel are bad are the Incisor, Disciple, Arc Pistol, and Eagle.

I'd call the Eagle "OK", but not good.  If I ever got it to Level X (hopefully that will be a long time), its DPS for its weight may be the best in the game.  And the Arc Pistol actually would be good if anyone could pull the trigger fast enough.

I don't have a problem with it's DPS, it's the fact that it is inaccuarate.  I also don't really care about weight any.  I have found that 110% is about all of the encumberance bonus I need on most characters with my playstyle.

[UKStory135]

Ashen Earth wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

VaultingFrog wrote...

To provide a place where constructive criticism can be discussed and possible improvements made

I think you entirely missed the point of this parody thread.

The thread was not posted to criticize a weapon, it is a parody of another thread that claimed "weapon X is good because I outscored other players with it" using a screenshot as "proof" of the weapon's worth with no other valuable insight (what weapons were the other people using? How good were the other players? was the OP ignoring objectives and exploiting the infinite respanws? Did he use high level consumables, and a character that can buff any weapon to be absurdly powerful, like an Infiltrator or Destroyer?)

The OP is mocking a stupid argument, and the Shuriken is the example he chose to use.

It would have been more effective had he actually got 75 SMG kills.

And even with a 75 SMG kill medal it would still be a bad argument.

It must tick off the master race that a lowly XBox player like you is right.

[sobit]

upinya slayin wrote...

Thats score doesn't add up. should be abut 50k lower total score. espcially since objectives weren't milked (full time bonus on credits) only way the happened is using 5 rockets on wave 11 spawns (you can get about 10k per spawn if you get 2 banshees, 3 brutes,a nd 2 ravagers which is usually a spawn)

gold XP were increased. i just finished a reaper gold PUG with 440k total XP and 81586 credits. i was surprised too, but it seems the increase was that big. no missiles used on extraction btw.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

upinya slayin wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

If you think the Hornet qualifies as a bad weapon to the degree that you list it alongside the Disciple, I would say you either haven't used it enough and are speaking from ignorance, or you need to L2P.

I do agree that "I scored X points with weapon Y; therefore Y is a great weapon" is a silly argument.

Lord_Sirian wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

Please, do so. I score pretty high with Hornet on any class I use it with.

All it takes is using the stability consumable.

 

Fine.. I didn't want to do this, but:



For
those who are unaware, Jay is a MUCH better player than I am. For me to
outscore him, he needs to be using a horrible weapon. For me to
outscore him by 85k, the weapon has to be absolutely and totally awful.

Guess which weapon he was using this game? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

This argument for the Hornet being bad is ironically more ridiculous than the type of argument this thread is making fun of.

Thats score doesn't add up. should be abut 50k lower total score. espcially since objectives weren't milked (full time bonus on credits) only way the happened is using 5 rockets on wave 11 spawns (you can get about 10k per spawn if you get 2 banshees, 3 brutes,a nd 2 ravagers which is usually a spawn)

Furthermore, Jay got more kills and headshots with his Hornet than Lord got with whatever weapon he had equipped.  Lord's points clearly came mostly from biotic, whereas Jay got few kills from Tech.  If anything, this kind of DISproves the Hornet being bad.

[Ashen One]

sobit wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Thats score doesn't add up. should be abut 50k lower total score. espcially since objectives weren't milked (full time bonus on credits) only way the happened is using 5 rockets on wave 11 spawns (you can get about 10k per spawn if you get 2 banshees, 3 brutes,a nd 2 ravagers which is usually a spawn)

gold XP were increased. i just finished a reaper gold PUG with 440k total XP and 81586 credits. i was surprised too, but it seems the increase was that big. no missiles used on extraction btw.

That screenshot is old as hell.

75k credits is what you would get for a 16 minute gold run before the patch, assuming all objectives were completed quickly. (extraction gives bonus credits)

This is from before Retaliation.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 15 novembre 2012 - 10:31 .

[Kenadian]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

If you think the Hornet qualifies as a bad weapon to the degree that you list it alongside the Disciple, I would say you either haven't used it enough and are speaking from ignorance, or you need to L2P.

I do agree that "I scored X points with weapon Y; therefore Y is a great weapon" is a silly argument.

Lord_Sirian wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

Please, do so. I score pretty high with Hornet on any class I use it with.

All it takes is using the stability consumable.

 

Fine.. I didn't want to do this, but:



For
those who are unaware, Jay is a MUCH better player than I am. For me to
outscore him, he needs to be using a horrible weapon. For me to
outscore him by 85k, the weapon has to be absolutely and totally awful.

Guess which weapon he was using this game? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

This argument for the Hornet being bad is ironically more ridiculous than the type of argument this thread is making fun of.

Thats score doesn't add up. should be abut 50k lower total score. espcially since objectives weren't milked (full time bonus on credits) only way the happened is using 5 rockets on wave 11 spawns (you can get about 10k per spawn if you get 2 banshees, 3 brutes,a nd 2 ravagers which is usually a spawn)

Furthermore, Jay got more kills and headshots with his Hornet than Lord got with whatever weapon he had equipped.  Lord's points clearly came mostly from biotic, whereas Jay got few kills from Tech.  If anything, this kind of DISproves the Hornet being bad.

Eh, no, not really. Jay could do that with a pre-buff Eagle. All it shows is how good he is. As can be seen in this old thing.
http://social.biowar...13420630-1.html

Modifié par Kenadian, 15 novembre 2012 - 10:41 .

[bondiboy]

Put any weapon in the hands of a talented player and the 'weapon' performs well

[upinya slayin]

Ashen Earth wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

VaultingFrog wrote...

To provide a place where constructive criticism can be discussed and possible improvements made

I think you entirely missed the point of this parody thread.

The thread was not posted to criticize a weapon, it is a parody of another thread that claimed "weapon X is good because I outscored other players with it" using a screenshot as "proof" of the weapon's worth with no other valuable insight (what weapons were the other people using? How good were the other players? was the OP ignoring objectives and exploiting the infinite respanws? Did he use high level consumables, and a character that can buff any weapon to be absurdly powerful, like an Infiltrator or Destroyer?)

The OP is mocking a stupid argument, and the Shuriken is the example he chose to use.

It would have been more effective had he actually got 75 SMG kills.

And even with a 75 SMG kill medal it would still be a bad argument.

its a bad argument if only a handfull of players can do it. If a bunch of players can its a valid argument.

How else do you test a weapon? how can you really compare?
You can throw out DPS and stuff like that but its not an indicator of how it performs in game. espicially when numbers are close. For instance you might be better then me with a javelin but i might be better then you with a BW. where would that leave us? how could you judge which is better?

The only way i can judge a weapon fairly is with my experiance with it. I'm not gonna base it on numbers and other peoples videos. I can only judge what i can test. If i like the way a weapon works and i do good with it of course i'll consider it a good weapon. On the other hand If i do poorly and I don't like somehting about the gun i'll consider it a bad weapon. It all depends on preference and ability to use.

How do you judge a weapon and what argument would you give in saying a weapon is good when others think it isn't?

[upinya slayin]

sobit wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Thats score doesn't add up. should be abut 50k lower total score. espcially since objectives weren't milked (full time bonus on credits) only way the happened is using 5 rockets on wave 11 spawns (you can get about 10k per spawn if you get 2 banshees, 3 brutes,a nd 2 ravagers which is usually a spawn)

gold XP were increased. i just finished a reaper gold PUG with 440k total XP and 81586 credits. i was surprised too, but it seems the increase was that big. no missiles used on extraction btw.

I know it was increased. It was increased yesterday. My games were coming out with less xp then that IIRC. and i was rocket boosting some of them to gain extra exp to level up quicker

[Feneckus]

upinya slayin wrote...

It would have been more effective had he actually got 75 SMG kills.

Says the guy who has an All Locust game in his sig but didn't get a single SMG medal.

[upinya slayin]

Feneckus wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

It would have been more effective had he actually got 75 SMG kills.

Says the guy who has an All Locust game in his sig but didn't get a single SMG medal.

The locust was a pitiful gun at the time. Its decent now but was horrible pre-buff and i never claimed otherwise. The challenge was to beat a gold reaper match w/o using powers and using the locust as the only weapon. I'm sure I can do a 4 man all locust game with nothing but locust fire. it'll take forever, but the point was somebody said it couldn't be done.

This was during the what weapons are viable on gold phase the forum went through. You can call it a loophole but i never set out to prove the locust was a good gun, just taht you can beat a gold w/o suing powers and only having a locust as a weapon

[BridgeBurner]

Feneckus wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

It would have been more effective had he actually got 75 SMG kills.

Says the guy who has an All Locust game in his sig but didn't get a single SMG medal.

[cronshaw]

What exactly is the point of determining whether or not "the shuriken is awesome?"
I'd bet it isn't altruism

[upinya slayin]

modok8 wrote...

What exactly is the point of determining whether or not "the shuriken is awesome?"
I'd bet it isn't altruism

He was making a joke at my collector SMG is a good gun thread

[SavagelyEpic]

modok8 wrote...

What exactly is the point of determining whether or not "the shuriken is awesome?"
I'd bet it isn't altruism

WHOOSH

[cronshaw]

upinya slayin wrote...

modok8 wrote...

What exactly is the point of determining whether or not "the shuriken is awesome?"
I'd bet it isn't altruism

He was making a joke at my collector SMG is a good gun thread

Yes I understand that, but you were making an argument about the viability of a weapon
which he is mocking here
So this thread is also about determining the viability of weapons
So my question stands
Why?

Modifié par modok8, 16 novembre 2012 - 12:03 .

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Ashen Earth wrote...

sobit wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Thats score doesn't add up. should be abut 50k lower total score. espcially since objectives weren't milked (full time bonus on credits) only way the happened is using 5 rockets on wave 11 spawns (you can get about 10k per spawn if you get 2 banshees, 3 brutes,a nd 2 ravagers which is usually a spawn)

gold XP were increased. i just finished a reaper gold PUG with 440k total XP and 81586 credits. i was surprised too, but it seems the increase was that big. no missiles used on extraction btw.

That screenshot is old as hell.

75k credits is what you would get for a 16 minute gold run before the patch, assuming all objectives were completed quickly. (extraction gives bonus credits)

This is from before Retaliation.

Nah it was done yesterday. Sirian died during extraction wave, he got spawn trapped [Banshees/Brutes/Ravagers spawning on him] even though there was 2 free spawn locations. Respawn are sometimes messed up.

Since he died he didn't get the extraction bonus. So 75k credits for him.