293 réponses à ce sujet

[Straw Nihilist]

Wait... Mass effect had sex scenes?

[cindercatz]

It's not about anything being filthy, just the opposite. If filthy is what's supposed to be emotionally evoked, then it could be about that, but any love scene (emphasis on love) is obviously not meant to do that.

I understand not wanting to write a love scene if your heart's not really in them, but honestly if that's the way it's going to be, I'd rather the narrative present an alternate emotionally climactic situation. As is with DA, fade to black is a killer. :-( The DA:O scenes were problematic because of the underwear, but if they had just used camera tricks instead, those scenes would have been much stronger, like Mass Effect's.

Emzamination wrote...

Incorrect, the context in which nudity is used can indeed be a vice (Pornography).

You are correct that nudity can be used as an artisitic tool if used in the appropriate context such as Nude art which is a artistic medium of expressing ones love and appreciation for the human body.

There is nothing artistic or intellectual about watching two people making love. Emotional? sure, but only if your one of the two involved.what you're suggesting is called voyeurism.

A context, not the context. All I see from a number of posters are shaming behaviour and judgemental bias. I'm not, nor is practically anybody I've ever seen on BSN in these threads, suggesting porn, or even explicit sex in an artistic context. I suggesting being true to your art and not your social bias. Nothing explicit is required to accomplish that.

Are you implying that video games cannot be art, then? I disagree. Video games are an artistic medium in exactly the same way that film or sequential art is. Art meant to convey a story and an accompanying emotional experience. Even still art often engages in the same exercise. "A picture is worth a thousand words." So is a painting. So is sketch art. etc. The appropriate context is determined by the expression conveyed, not by the medium. Even puzzle games and others that have no story can be a form of art IMO, meant to engage and evoke a certain emotional experience.

No, it's only voyeurism if your intent is simply to watch others to arouse yourself sexually (or otherwise in specific non-sexual ways, such as gawkers at a car wreck). The whole point in these stories we play is to engage us emotionally and intellectually, and to take the audience on that emotional journey. Any piece of entertainment that has no emotional value isn't worth my investment. So the question becomes how and to what degree you do that, not whether it's relevant.

[The Uncanny]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Making the abomination with two backs is not and should not be the culmination of a relationship.

Very much this. 

[Cutlass Jack]

David Gaider wrote...

My preference would be to not do any sex scene at all, to be honest. I know that any such aversion means we get posts of how we must be being censored, or how we're not embracing the "adult" grittiness that is the Witcher, but meh.

My preference as well. Strange as it might sound, having scenes visualized takes away from my roleplay of what happened. Fades to black open up possibilities without chewing up resources. Also, Morrigan covering up more for sex was just....odd.

That said, I'm a fan of DA2's scene with Isabela. Because it homaged old cinematic romances with her and the hero stripping each other on the way to the bed. Of weapons, not clothing.

Give me good conversational bits before and after the act and I'll be happy.

[mousestalker]

Pillow talk could be quite nice, though. It's typically charming and intimate, so could serve to develop the relationship in a congenial manner.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

David Gaider wrote...

plnero wrote...

It wasn't full frontal nudity, but it wasn't a ridiculous small cloth/blackout scene. I think it would be nice to see at least that in DA3.

If the DA teams wants they could even do a Witcher 2 style romance scene.I can confirm that no little boys had their heads explode as a result of watching the Witcher 2 scenes, so I'm sure Fox News will leave it alone. If not you can point out God of War and Witcher 2 and use them as a scapegoat.

My preference would be to not do any sex scene at all, to be honest. I know that any such aversion means we get posts of how we must be being censored, or how we're not embracing the "adult" grittiness that is the Witcher, but meh.

David, you're the boss. I'd rather have no sex/ nudity than corny underwear sex like we got in DA:O any day. I know it wasn't your creative team working on Mass Effect, but for that matter I found the fully-clothed Shepard-Traynor shower scene downright laughable, which I'm sure was not their intention...

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 15 novembre 2012 - 04:19 .

[Parmida]

mousestalker wrote...

Pillow talk could be quite nice, though. It's typically charming and intimate, so could serve to develop the relationship in a congenial manner.

I like pillow talk too!

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Break out you calendars: DAO did this kind of thing best. I'd prefer to see DAO style scenes, perhaps even a little longer.

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

My preference would be to not do any sex scene at all, to be honest. I know that any such aversion means we get posts of how we must be being censored, or how we're not embracing the "adult" grittiness that is the Witcher, but meh.

+1

I find fade-to-black quite tasteful.  I have a good enough imagination that I can figure out what happened at what went where from there.  I find the best scenes in a romance are the dialogues, not the love scenes.

[syllogi]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Dragon Age is a game driven by its narrative.

A romance scene is the culmination of a relationship drawing to its conclusion.

Fade to black skips the conclusion.

Skipping the conclusion is bad storytelling.

Simple.

I'd much rather have a scene or two after the fade to black romance scene that expand upon interaction between the PC and their chosen LI, than consider a sex scene as the be-all and end-all to the relationship.

[happy_daiz]

mousestalker wrote...

Pillow talk could be quite nice, though. It's typically charming and intimate, so could serve to develop the relationship in a congenial manner.

It could be nice, yes. Although that pillow talk scene with Merrill was...awkward.  IMHO, of course. If handled THAT way, no thanks. I'd rather just have more getting-to-know-you talks, outside of the bedroom.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 15 novembre 2012 - 04:42 .

[hexaligned]

Leave them out entirely imo.
Even when Bio first started doing them they were cheesy and unnecessary.
It just feels obligatorily forced into every game now.

[Inside_Joke]

Emzamination wrote...

No. One doesn't need nudity to have a touching romantic scene. Fade2black is enough.

Why are people so concerned about seeing naked bodies? It's CHEESY.

relhart wrote...

Leave them out entirely imo. 
Even when Bio first started doing them they were cheesy and unnecessary.
It just feels obligatorily forced into every game now. 

YA! Exactly!

Modifié par Inside_Joke, 15 novembre 2012 - 04:48 .

[CrazyRah]

I really don't think nudity is needed to create good "sex scenes" I much rather have it fade to black and have some lines before and afterwards. It let everyone's (dirty) mind decide what happen while also letting the devs put the resources into stuff that i feel is more important like extensive dialogues and coversation with LI/characters

[AlanC9]

Bones 6oS wrote...

Wait... Mass effect had sex scenes?

I presume the OP is talking about ME1's scene, which was pretty well done. Think basic cable, not network (US standards, obviously -- AFAIK we're the only country that freaks out about nudity)

ME2 had various scenes. Of the ones I saw, some were good and some were kind of silly.

ME3's scenes had the same problem the OP has with the DA:O scene -- clothing where there shouldn't be clothing. (Traynor, I'm looking at you)

As far as I'm concerned, the devs can go any damn way they please with this. I wouldn't mind something that looked like it was out of Game of Thrones, but it's not a high priority. Or any priority, really.

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 novembre 2012 - 05:01 .

[cindercatz]

Jesus.

You people are exactly why nudity is important in (supposedly mature, adult audience intended) video games.



If we're going to have a PG13 game with cussing and inuendo, why don't we just remove the cussing and inuendo and be honest about what you guys really want this series to be. Some of you people are the immature audience I was talking about.

edit: not addressed to AlanC9, just popped up after

Modifié par cindercatz, 15 novembre 2012 - 05:01 .

[hadrain77]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

plnero wrote...

It wasn't full frontal nudity, but it wasn't a ridiculous small cloth/blackout scene. I think it would be nice to see at least that in DA3.

If the DA teams wants they could even do a Witcher 2 style romance scene.I can confirm that no little boys had their heads explode as a result of watching the Witcher 2 scenes, so I'm sure Fox News will leave it alone. If not you can point out God of War and Witcher 2 and use them as a scapegoat.

My preference would be to not do any sex scene at all, to be honest. I know that any such aversion means we get posts of how we must be being censored, or how we're not embracing the "adult" grittiness that is the Witcher, but meh.

David, you're the boss. I'd rather have no sex/ nudity than corny underwear sex like we got in DA:O any day. I know it wasn't your creative team working on Mass Effect, but for that matter I found the fully-clothed Shepard-Traynor shower scene downright laughable, which I'm sure was not their intention...

In a game where enemie bodies explode into bloody messes and your character can be covered in blood after every fight or ME where you can zoom in with a sniper rifle onto someones head, pull the trigger and their head explodes, and blood gushes everywhere in slow motion, why is showing a boob such a taboo thing?

[garrusfan1]

OP if you are saying fox news will complain I say do it the way ME1 was and say hey we're decent look at the witcher

[brushyourteeth]

hadrain77 wrote...

In a game where enemie bodies explode into bloody messes and your character can be covered in blood after every fight or ME where you can zoom in with a sniper rifle onto someones head, pull the trigger and their head explodes, and blood gushes everywhere in slow motion, why is showing a boob such a taboo thing?

It's just that video games are combat-intensive, so violence is par for the course.

Asking the devs to go out of their way to animate some sexy times just sounds like it's fulfilling the horny loner basement-dwelling gamer nerd stereotype. 

... especially when it'd done under the guise of "maturity."

[Welsh Inferno]

I'v never really had a problem with fade to black, as long as the dialogue with the companion before/after is well done. But even so I think the ME1 scenes were done pretty well. So personally I'd go for scenes in a similar vein to ME1, just more varied.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 15 novembre 2012 - 05:11 .

[Knight of Dane]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Dragon Age is a game driven by its narrative.

A romance scene is the culmination of a relationship drawing to its conclusion.

Fade to black skips the conclusion.

Skipping the conclusion is bad storytelling.

Simple.

So... the point of all your relationships is sex?

(I refuse to believe that)


Besides, the DA games aren't romance. They're a lot of things plus romance. The romance is a little extra on the side, like coleslaw with your sandwich and fries. If not every single aspect is shown to the player, it's because it's not actually that important.

And it's not as if we couldn't imagine the conclusion. I don't have to know which position Isabela prefers and actually watch her achieve it in order to understand her relationship with Hawke, and that it just became sexual.

Come on; try to strech your horizon, did I say anything about the point of it(romance)?

The conclusion is part of the point, but since romances in Biowares games are optional the point remains with the player.
Which is what I like about them.

And I never said anything about DA games being strictly romantic either, I said that a romantic scene was the culmination of persuing a relationship in media, which romances in DA and Mass Effect take form in a small narrative on the sideline.

Besides, when did I say sex? I said a romantic scene, didn't I?

Now please if you can't argue without twisting my points into something I never mentioned please refrain from persuing the conversation.

If I may display my personal opinion it is the following:
The witcher 2 has a very, bold, romance scene with frontal nudity and moans..
That's a bit far, I don't feel like that's required. When I say fade to black I mean it comes too soon in the DA2 and ME2 games and beleive it can be done better.

ME did it in a way i like it, nothing completely sexual, but still a scene where you got to see your character get close and intimate with his/her partner.
That is the culmination of romance.
ME did also turn to fade black, we just got to see a bit more "content" first.

I don't care about sideboob or butcheeks, but to me a romantic story branch should end in some kind of scene that isn't just clothes-kiss. That leaves too much up for interpretation.
Some might see that as a good thing though.

What I have yet to see from any bioware game is a romance scene that is really, romantic, intimate, feelygoody. Sort of like that.
Sensitivity. You god damn persued this, why not end it?
And square skips it if you don't wana see 

[ioannisdenton]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I'm with David on this. My mind is far filthier than anything we could actually (legally) add to the game. I'd rather we left it up to the imagination.

I agree. it's the commitment the character succeeds that cound not the cutscenes.
No to sex scenes.