293 réponses à ce sujet

[brushyourteeth]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Come on; try to strech your horizon, did I say anything about the point of it(romance)?

The conclusion is part of the point, but since romances in Biowares games are optional the point remains with the player.
Which is what I like about them.

And I never said anything about DA games being strictly romantic either, I said that a romantic scene was the culmination of persuing a relationship in media, which romances in DA and Mass Effect take form in a small narrative on the sideline.

Besides, when did I say sex? I said a romantic scene, didn't I?

Now please if you can't argue without twisting my points into something I never mentioned please refrain from persuing the conversation.

If I may display my personal opinion it is the following:
The witcher 2 has a very, bold, romance scene with frontal nudity and moans..
That's a bit far, I don't feel like that's required. When I say fade to black I mean it comes too soon in the DA2 and ME2 games and beleive it can be done better.

ME did it in a way i like it, nothing completely sexual, but still a scene where you got to see your character get close and intimate with his/her partner.
That is the culmination of romance.
ME did also turn to fade black, we just got to see a bit more "content" first.

I don't care about sideboob or butcheeks, but to me a romantic story branch should end in some kind of scene that isn't just clothes-kiss. That leaves too much up for interpretation.
Some might see that as a good thing though.

What I have yet to see from any bioware game is a romance scene that is really, romantic, intimate, feelygoody. Sort of like that.
Sensitivity. You god damn persued this, why not end it?
And square skips it if you don't wana see 

True, I can see now that you said "romance" and not "sex" -- I made an assumption about what you were saying based on the point of the topic that you seemed to be supporting, and I apologize. 


My point is that the DA romances don't suffer from a lack of displayable sexual intimacy. It's just not worth the resources to make a 30-second scene that's non-interactive and non-plot driven that will also only be seen by a few of the players, when those resources could be put to much better use elsewhere in the game. 

[Knight of Dane]

Well on that we must just disagree then. I think romances are largely a part of why I find the Dragon Age and Mass Effect entertaining. It was also one of the few choises that seemed to matter to Hawke personally through the game. Which made it kinda important since the premise of the game was to tel Hawke's story.

I don't really have the big idea of what Bioware should do, but I request something more daring without making it Witcher Style.

[Scott Sion]

David Gaider wrote...

plnero wrote...

It wasn't full frontal nudity, but it wasn't a ridiculous small cloth/blackout scene. I think it would be nice to see at least that in DA3.

If the DA teams wants they could even do a Witcher 2 style romance scene.I can confirm that no little boys had their heads explode as a result of watching the Witcher 2 scenes, so I'm sure Fox News will leave it alone. If not you can point out God of War and Witcher 2 and use them as a scapegoat.

My preference would be to not do any sex scene at all, to be honest. I know that any such aversion means we get posts of how we must be being censored, or how we're not embracing the "adult" grittiness that is the Witcher, but meh.

I don't mean for this to sound whiny, but if it's fade to black or no sexy scene then I'll go for no sex scene.

[FaWa]

In DAO you can download any kind of mod you want for this.

Ones I have:

Better Options at the pearl
Zevran improved romance (Gay Edition)
Alistair improved romance
Human Male Nudity (Hair++)
Elf Male Nudity

So yea go for it

[cindercatz]

brushyourteeth wrote...

hadrain77 wrote...

In a game where enemie bodies explode into bloody messes and your character can be covered in blood after every fight or ME where you can zoom in with a sniper rifle onto someones head, pull the trigger and their head explodes, and blood gushes everywhere in slow motion, why is showing a boob such a taboo thing?

It's just that video games are combat-intensive, so violence is par for the course.

Asking the devs to go out of their way to animate some sexy times just sounds like it's fulfilling the horny loner basement-dwelling gamer nerd stereotype. 

... especially when it'd done under the guise of "maturity."

brushyourteeth, you're one of the nicer people on here. Then you post things like this.

Aside, violence is not and never was the point of DA or BioWare. It's about storytelling, character, and setting. Drama. Do you buy their product for the combat or is that one reason among many? Is that your primary interest? Probably not.

When someone then supports the use of one of the most powerful tools of dramatic storytelling and the response is "You just might be a basement troll", you see how that could be offensive, right? I know that's not a malicious accusation you're making, but it's a serious disregard for the arguements being made and why those of us that make them go out of our way to do so.

Also, do you think nudity should be banned from R-rated movies? How about steamy romantic novels? Mature audience comics like Sin City or Fables? Television shows like Game of Thrones or Dexter? Those are the kinds of thing that are market equivalent to Dragon Age.

The attitude that mature audience targeted dramatic video games shouldn't be treated like any other dramatic media ghettoizes video games, promotes the attitude that 'nudity is bad', 'sex is bad', reinforces social shaming mechanisms, and promotes abuse against those of us who disagree (with any particular part of what moralistic society decides is koshur, notice "moralistic", not "moral"). You accuse some of us of a "guise of maturity", but I'm asking you to think about how offensive that is. I know you're a decent person. What's really immature here?

edit: typos

Modifié par cindercatz, 15 novembre 2012 - 05:37 .

[brushyourteeth]

cindercatz wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

hadrain77 wrote...

In a game where enemie bodies explode into bloody messes and your character can be covered in blood after every fight or ME where you can zoom in with a sniper rifle onto someones head, pull the trigger and their head explodes, and blood gushes everywhere in slow motion, why is showing a boob such a taboo thing?

It's just that video games are combat-intensive, so violence is par for the course.

Asking the devs to go out of their way to animate some sexy times just sounds like it's fulfilling the horny loner basement-dwelling gamer nerd stereotype. 

... especially when it'd done under the guise of "maturity."

brushyourteeth, you're one of the nicer people on here. Then you post things like this.

Aside, violence is not and never was the point of DA or BioWare. It's about storytelling, character, and setting. Drama. Do you buy their product for the combat or is that one reason among many? Is that your primary interest? Probably not.

When someone then supports the use of one of the most powerful tools of dramatic storytelling and the response is "You just might be a basement troll", you see how that could be offensive, right? I know that's not a malicious accusation you're making, but it's a serious disregard for the arguements being made and why those of us that make them go out of our way to do so.

Also, do you think nudity should be banned from R-rated movies? How about steamy romantic novels? Mature audience comics like Sin City or Fables? Television shows like Game of Thrones or Dexter? Those are the kinds of thing that are market equivalent to Dragon Age.

The attitude that mature audience targeted dramatic video games shouldn't be treated like any other dramatic media ghettoizes video games, promotes the attitude that 'nudity is bad', 'sex is bad', reinforces social shaming mechanisms, and promotes abuse against those of us who disagree (with any particular part of what moralistic society decides is koshur, notice "moralistic", not "moral"). You accuse some of us of a "guise of maturity", but I'm asking you to think about how offensive that is. I know you're a decent person. What's really immature here?

edit: typos

Okay, I think first I'd like to say thank you, and that I'm really sorry that my comment disappointed you!!

I should clarify: what I mean is that a lot of the comments that have been made were done simply out of a puerile interest in sex. You can't deny that, and you can't deny that it reflects badly on the gamer community that we're always asking these gamemaking professionals to please set aside whatever plans they actually had for their creation, and instead focus on more sex. It advances the stereotype (even though I, as a relatively normal real-life gamer don't buy into it).

Now, if you're asking me what my real opinion is, I'll give it honestly, and I hope you'll forgive me if it's too different from yours: you can't convince me that any time someone asks for more sex, they aren't doing it because they want to be tittilated. I've tried to make that make sense in my head and it just doesn't. So if my preference is more of whatever the DA team can give us that's important to me, and less of in-game sex (which isn't), then of course I'm going to say I just don't want it. Then others come into the forums and loudly demand that my favorite game series earn their M rating by giving them more boobies. Again, that's not everyone in the fanbase, but it's loud enough to be annoying. Your worst enemies on this issue are the ones who agree with you but with different motives.

And while I don't think that sex scenes should be banned from R-rated movies, they also shouldn't be required on the basis that the movie has an R-rating already and it will make some of the fans happy.

Okay, so having said that, I'll say this: your desire for more explicit sex in the next game doesn't change my opinion of you, even if my opinion isn't going to change about how unnecessary I think it is. 


and for the record (since you asked), I am still pissed about the nudity in Game of Thrones. I read the books, and they were explicit enough without HBO writing in unnecessary character and unnecessary extra scenes just for the purpose of arousing (literally) a larger fanbase of people who aren't interested in the story, but are interested in breasts. That's pandering, and it cheapens the story, and I'd never ever want that for DA. 

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 15 novembre 2012 - 05:57 .

[jillabender]

Personally, I wouldn't mind if DA3 didn't include sex scenes, or used the fade-to-black approach.

I admit, though, that I use and enjoy mods for DA:O that feature tastefully done sex scenes with a bit of light nudity.

If someone feels that it's impossible for any game to ever do sex scenes well, that's fair enough, I guess. I agree that sex scenes in games can sometimes feel awkward enough that they distract more than they draw the player in.

But I admit that I find myself a bit bothered by the suggestion that there's something inherently wrong with being aroused by a fictional sex scene.

I get that there are people who are loud about wanting to see more sexual content and nudity in games, and that other people might be weirded out by that. But I'm a bit bothered by the suggestion that enjoying or being turned on by a scene that features sex and/or nudity is something that makes a person shallow or "less mature."

We're sexual beings, after all, and while sex scenes and nudity shouldn't be requirements for any game, I don't think that people should need to apologize if they happen to enjoy them.

Modifié par jillabender, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:05 .

[Rawgrim]

Emzamination wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I don`t think they should add "******" just for the sake of it. But they shouldn`t shy away from it either. The game has a mature ending, if a mature person gets offended by seeing a pair of breasts, its hisher problem. Odd that seeing a pair of breasts getting kissed is offensive to people, but seeing a breast get shot is not.

Again I repeat maturity and nudity are not synomous.

A mature person would understand that mature just means  adult, and being adult alone doesn't entitle nudity. The fact that you're suggesting just because you're mature, you must have nudity shows a major lack of maturity. You just aren't ready to expierence that yet.

If you wish to see "Breast getting kissed" there are games to feel that vice. I suggesting expending your needs there.

Did you even read my post? I said "I don`t think they should add ****** just for the sake of it". Not even one place do I suggest that I MUST have nudity.

Just for the record: i have a 15 year old son. So yeah...I am certainly not ready to experience nudity in a video game...

If you want to insult someone, at least read what the person has posted, before quoting them.

[Battlebloodmage]

I don't need to see any nudity though. I kinda want Bioware to make the scene more romantic rather than just fade to black. I have always preferred romance over actual nudity.

[Rawgrim]

IIDovahChiiefII wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

No. One doesn't need nudity to have a touching romantic scene. Fade2black is enough.

This pretty much sums it up.otherwise its virtual porn

What would you call the fight sequences or the murder knife bits then?"Virtual porn" is way worse than virtual murder, of course?

[Realmzmaster]

I do not understand this need to have sex scenes. A game can have love scenes without sex. Love scenes are touching intimate moments which can have nothing to do with sex. Like the scene between Hawke and Isabela at the end that is touching. Simply a kiss and the love shown between two people.
I do not need to see nudity. I am not against it. I just do not see the reason for it. Most sex scenes between two people tend to be corny and cheesy like the one in Witcher 2. I am sure no will want to see the dialog that is exchanged between my wife and I. If anyone was looking in he/she would find the dialog very corny and cheesy, but it has meaning to us. I do not need to hear awkward dialog while in the act or after. Most sex scenes in other media is not very good. Fade to black works nicely.

I am more than happy to have the sex scenes cut and resources spent on other possibilities like more intimate conversation with the LI.

As far as I am concerned Bioware can clean it up and go back to when crpgs showed the love between two people without having to resort to the bump and grind. I can live without the sex scenes. Like I have said before how much realism do you want in your fantasy?

As far as maturity. If I make a stand against something or for something and I am ready to accept the consequences of that decision that is being mature.

Unless someone can give me a compelling reason why it should be shown then I would rather it not be shown or fade to black.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:17 .

[ledod]

No love scenes, please. I am no prude,  but there is something very 'off' about computer-generated sex scenes.

[Liamv2]

There is a million and 1 mods for this kind of perverted stuff

[syllogi]

I think all the people who are invested in the cause of more explicit sex scenes should be putting their energy towards asking for a toolset. Everybody wins when there's a toolset.

[Rawgrim]

Liamv2 wrote...

There is a million and 1 mods for this kind of perverted stuff

Nudity is perverted?

[Chris Priestly]

Rawgrim wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

There is a million and 1 mods for this kind of perverted stuff

Nudity is perverted?

No, but it isn't required either.

[Rawgrim]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

There is a million and 1 mods for this kind of perverted stuff

Nudity is perverted?

No, but it isn't required either.

Quite right. But i am sure you agree that Morrigan actually putting on a bra when she was to have sex, was abit...odd.

[TK514]

I don't really see the difference between a mature rated game and a mature rated movie. I don't watch a movie, see a tasteful lovemaking scene and think 'they only put this in because we need to up the porn levels'. So why would a game like Dragon Age be any different? I don't believe I'm expecting anything more out of Dragon Age the Game than I would feel appropriate in Dragon Age the Movie, and considerably less than could be found in books of the same genre, where love making is usually described fairly blatantly through he use of euphemism.

Sure, if I wanted porn then the Internet is just a URL away, but love scenes (in games, books, and novels) done well aren't porn.

[Mello]

syllogi wrote...

I think all the people who are invested in the cause of more explicit sex scenes should be putting their energy towards asking for a toolset. Everybody wins when there's a toolset.

This. A toolset would solve all problems. No sex scene? Oh well i'll wait for the modders to make one. Even though I doubt we will get a toolset. I don't really care about the fade2black to tell you the truth. Watching a bunch of pixels get it on makes me feelkind of uncomfortable if you ask me but I won't argue if they do show some stuff. I would love if they do show a little heart warming pillow talk. 

[Liamv2]

Rawgrim wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

There is a million and 1 mods for this kind of perverted stuff

Nudity is perverted?

No, but it isn't required either.

Quite right. But i am sure you agree that Morrigan actually putting on a bra when she was to have sex, was abit...odd.

its kinda wierd if you are watching two blobs of pixals going at it

Modifié par Liamv2, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:35 .

[Rawgrim]

TK514 wrote...

I don't really see the difference between a mature rated game and a mature rated movie. I don't watch a movie, see a tasteful lovemaking scene and think 'they only put this in because we need to up the porn levels'. So why would a game like Dragon Age be any different? I don't believe I'm expecting anything more out of Dragon Age the Game than I would feel appropriate in Dragon Age the Movie, and considerably less than could be found in books of the same genre, where love making is usually described fairly blatantly through he use of euphemism.

Sure, if I wanted porn then the Internet is just a URL away, but love scenes (in games, books, and novels) done well aren't porn.

You hit the nail on the head, Sir. If I buy a game thats rated mature (usually says 18+ on it), then I automatically see it the same way as an R-rated movie.

[Sylvianus]

Don't care. Either nothing, or something good. Don't mess up in this area. Otherwise  I liked M1 sex scenes, don't know why it's such a bid deal to do that again and I'm not sure I want to know.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:35 .

[Realmzmaster]

Rawgrim wrote...

TK514 wrote...

I don't really see the difference between a mature rated game and a mature rated movie. I don't watch a movie, see a tasteful lovemaking scene and think 'they only put this in because we need to up the porn levels'. So why would a game like Dragon Age be any different? I don't believe I'm expecting anything more out of Dragon Age the Game than I would feel appropriate in Dragon Age the Movie, and considerably less than could be found in books of the same genre, where love making is usually described fairly blatantly through he use of euphemism.

Sure, if I wanted porn then the Internet is just a URL away, but love scenes (in games, books, and novels) done well aren't porn.

You hit the nail on the head, Sir. If I buy a game thats rated mature (usually says 18+ on it), then I automatically see it the same way as an R-rated movie.

And all r-rated movies do not necessarily have to have sex. Violence alone can raise it to that level. Sex is only one part of the M+ rated definition. It does not mean that the movie has to contain it.

The definition for Mature is Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

Nowhere is nudity mentioned. The AO rating is Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

The R-rating (including NC-17) states  contains some adult material. An R-rated motion picture may include adult themes, adult activity, hard language, intense or persistent violence, sexually-oriented nudity, drug abuse or other elements.

Under the ESRB rating AO would equate to R (including NC-17) not Mature. Mature actually equates more to PG-13.