308 réponses à ce sujet

[ElSuperGecko]

Mesina2 wrote...
Wait, you were talking about IT?

Seriously, IT is debunked by Leviathan DLC alone.

LOL, no.  Leviathan was a goldmine for IT.  Someone's clearly not been paying attention.

[sharkboy421]

I like red more than green or blue.  And I'm only half joking, the choices are all terrible.

But to be half serious, its the only ending that sorta kinda fits with the rest of the series.  The sudden re-introduction of "organics vs synthetics", the character assassination of the reapers, the appearance of the catalyst; all of these things completely ruin the narrative coherence of the ending.  Destroy kinda fits, but since we are using one of the catalyst's offered choices, it still sucks.  Its simply the least sucky.

[devSin]

Destroy is popular because megalomania and eugenics are unpopular.

Some people like to play God, and some people think diversity is only a weakness. For everyone else, there's no real choice at the end.

The destroy variation is still a pile of crap. It just stinks less than the others.

[M Hedonist]

It makers the Reapers go boom, instantly.
It's also the one with the fewest risks involved.

Modifié par Sauruz, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:03 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Mesina2 wrote...



Wait, you were talking about IT?

Seriously, IT is debunked by Leviathan DLC alone.

Nope.jpg

Leviathan is at first optional DLC and as much debunking IT is also proving some points of IT, so the information from this DLC are either true or true partially and yet unimportant.

Leviathans are pre-ending DLC which in case that ending was a hallucination - indoctrination, was just repeating a points said in Leviathan - there is nothing more then repeating of the what we found about endings in EC.

I remember one developer from BioWare in year 2011 saying something that ending itself will be on disc but they will be revealed with time thru multiple DLCs. They were never counting with such a backlash and they made EC only as kind of damage control.

Leviathans together with Catalyst made more questions than gave you answers... such a mess huh?

Leviathans said:

-that they have created an intelligence - they never mentioned the name of intelligence
-that intelligence made a army of pawns and was gathering informations
-that the intelligence made a first step against creators by surprise attack, from this intelligence created a Reaper - first and perfect in design...
- Crucible is the work of cycles
- intelligence used full potential of Reapers and create Harbinger....

+ it´s a bad thing to try a justify bad ending with EC and than EC justify with DLC retroactively to fix it...

Catalyst said:

- I am the Catalyst, creator and owner of Reapers and Reapers are best solution
- Crucible is again work of cycles
- I control the Reapers, but I can´t or won´t command them to stop with harvest
- My solution won´t work anymore
- If you don´t pick my color you will fail
- Despite that Crucible is the work of cycles, I can recognize status of structure, purpose of structure and yet in one sentece lying about it...
- Shepard is first organic which found him

+ it´s bad thing that vanilla ending gave you no answer at all, EC trying to gave you insight and yet it´s full of falacies and nonsense.

+ best plothole in literal version is Vendetta, he is the product of last cycle which knew everything about Crucible, Citadel and Reapers what Protheans managed to collect. As Vendetta mentioned, he knew all about Citadel, Catalyst and Crucible and he will assist you with Catalyst but then what happened with Vendetta if Catalyst realy exists as kind of omnipotent AI. I trust more to VI created by those who fought against Reapers than Catalyst appearing to scene as a glowing child...

Why is Crucible still unanswered question ?

Both Catalyst and Leviathan said that they saw it and knew about it and yet they are refusing to tell you anything valuable about it, it´s either that they are lying because they both have their tentacles in it or they both have no idea what´s the Crucible and indoctrination was just a looking for a good explanation.

Then, explain me if the all the cycles were building Crucible - how is possible that the inventor or inventors of Crucible were building Crucible not knowing what it will do - and yet they were building structure with three different functions.


Reapers are presented by Catalyst just as a tool of greater good, despite of what they are realy doing and two of four choices are supposed to be uplifting and ascending - I feel superstitious ave here...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:07 .

[AlanC9]

RobotWalk wrote...
You sure as hell don't give in and allow the cancer to overtake your body, thinking that since it’s inevitable you might as well join up with it. It’s another defeatist, delusional attitude. All of the evidence is there staring you in the face that you’re afflicted by a very hostile disease. You won’t attain anything greater by allowing it to overtake you—you'll simply cease to exist as a person. If being alive was ever even close to being your goal, then you lose if you choose this course of action.

What evidence would that be?

Intersting metaphor, though.

[AlanC9]

Sauruz wrote...

It makers the Reapers go boom, instantly.
It's also the one with the fewest risks involved.

Correct. You pay all the costs up front, rather than maybe paying something later.

But I don't see how "risk" explains much. The DR choice in DA:O is the risky option, but it's quite popular. And while not precisely megalomaniacal, it's quite arrogant too. devSin,, any thoughts?

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:16 .

[Liamv2]

Right I understand now my favourite endings are now in this order
refusal>space magic>control=destruction I will wait for other DLCs before deciding permanently over the top two

[Liamv2]

Also if this becomes an anti ending thread I will ask the mods to lock it. Talking about the ending on BSN is kinda risky

[KingZayd]

Because it's the least stupid.

Need crucible to destroy the Reapers. Have 1 crucible. Reapers still around if we don't pick destroy, but the crucible isn't.

[Jere85]

It has been the goal from the start, and its the only option where Shepard might live. Those are the main reasons i believe. I also believe its the only choice that isnt completely stupid. Synthesis and Control have flaws in them that are just too great to think of as nitpicking.

I hope some DLC will provide a switch to kill reapers instead of all synthetics.

[Samtheman63]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

It is the only option that ends this flawed cycle idea for good. It is the only ending that the reapers don't have their hands on. It is the only choice backed by our friends and squaddies. Every indoctrinated character we ever meet rejects Destroy, but most of them would support either Control or Synthesis.
And then there is some more complicated stuff like the dangerous assumption that Holoshep would be beneficial forever or the effects of Synthesis that the Leviathans could abuse.

Your missing the fact that the catalyst tells you once enough generations have forgotten, synthetics will be created again and the cycle begin anew.

Assuming leviathans don't jump onto the scene now that the reapers are gone.


They all have negative outcomes.

catalyst also tells you not to destroy the reapers and to turn eveyone into synthetic/organic hybrids which results in shepard killing himself

i suggest you dont listen to him

[BrotherCorvid]

AlanC9 wrote...

RobotWalk wrote...
You sure as hell don't give in and allow the cancer to overtake your body, thinking that since it’s inevitable you might as well join up with it. It’s another defeatist, delusional attitude. All of the evidence is there staring you in the face that you’re afflicted by a very hostile disease. You won’t attain anything greater by allowing it to overtake you—you'll simply cease to exist as a person. If being alive was ever even close to being your goal, then you lose if you choose this course of action.

What evidence would that be?

Intersting metaphor, though.

Well, the evidence of cancer being a very hostile disease would probably be evident in everyone who has ever died from it and never managed to beat it by lying down and resting.

In the case of the Reaper threat, however, the evidence would be all of the husks screaming at you and trying to kill you the entire game.  As we know, Husks are synthetic creatures-- a synthesis between mechanized and organic compounds.  They only kind of look vaguely reminiscent of the individual they once were, for the individual has died to create something new.  Hell, Reapers themselves reproduce through synthesis-- they kill and then hybridize billions of organics with artificial materials in order to create a new, synthetic individual that symbolizes the conquered species.  All that's left in the Reaper is the memory of the race-- not the race itself.  The race on the whole doesn't actually survive, it dies to create something utterly different.

Pretending that the Catalyst is offering some special new type of Synthesis where the people of the galaxy simply peacefully harmonize with the monsters that have just been trying to kill them is just willing ignorance-- there is no evidence whatsoever that the Reapers are okay with peaceful solutions of any sort.  They've been systematically murdering entire species for longer than people are even capable of comprehending.  

If you'll allow me another comparison--  say you find a mass murderer, in the process of murdering his 78th victim.  You get the nerve to confront him, and he, still very much covered in blood, says "You're right!  I've been bad.  But hey listen-- let's go back to my place and we'll have a chat about it.  Maybe your strong moral compass is just what I've needed to perfect myself!"  Do you go home with him?  Do you trust him?  Or do you put him down like the monster he is because he's plainly a psychopath?

The reapers persist through destruction, and will continue to do so.  Synthesis is just letting the Reapers win in the best way possible-- the organics of the galaxy die while they bolster their population.  Win win for the Reapers.

Modifié par RobotWalk, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:44 .

[ghost9191]

eh one chance to destroy the reapers, choosing synthesis or control throws that chance out the window. what happens if they continue with their ways. or the shepalyst that replaces the catalyst is worse .

simple reason

and no death in control ? ya right . cause again everyone will bow to shepalyst and the reapers just because it demands them to.

current generation might have a problem with it . next might be more accepting ., generation after next will probably try to rise against them . amazing what some will do for petty freedoms

[UltimateSpinDash]

I CAN'T allow the reapers to exist after so many cycles. If the reapers exist for 1 million years, there would have been 20000 cycles. Correct me if I am wrong, but the reapers exist for about 37 million years. This makes 740000 cycles. We can't say how many people died with each cycle, but as the reapers harvest every race that uses the mass relays, alot of people die.

EDIT: I know, thanks to sharkboy421 (see below) I just realized that my math sucks. For some reason I had the wrong numbers in my head. Of course it's "only" 20 in a million years, the reapers are at least one billion years old (Leviathan of Dis), so 20000 cycles (this time I even checked it).

Control fails to me because I won't give that much power to one person. If I ever play a powerhungry Shepard, this is my choice.
Synthesis is the "play god" option. I don't have the right to change the entire galaxy because hologram kid wants me to do so.

Destroy might destroy every form of artificial life, but synthetics can be repaired, though for some reason nobody seems to try. Also, the death of EDI and the Geth was poorly implemented. Hackett never mentions the destruction of the Geth, and the only clue we have that EDI is dead is that her name is on the memorial wall. No sad Joker?

Refusal forces future races to fight the reapers and there will be more deaths.

At last, control and synthesis (especially control) have another flaw: Everyone stops fighting the reapers because they glow green in synthesis, and in control they are like: "Those guys killed my family and my friends and a lot of other people, but hey, now they repair the relays for us. Nobody asks why the reapers switched sides from one moment to another.

Modifié par UltimateSpinDash, 25 décembre 2012 - 01:02 .

[R3MUS]

Well... If you choose destroy and destroy the Reapers, your children will create synthetics and then the chaos will come back. All organic life will cease to exist. There will only be machines in the Universe.

You want that?

[KingZayd]

R3MUS wrote...

Well... If you choose destroy and destroy the Reapers, your children will create synthetics and then the chaos will come back. All organic life will cease to exist. There will only be machines in the Universe.

You want that?

Will it? There is no evidence for it.

But if it does happen, I don't particularly mind.

[Galifreya]

You kill the f*cking reapers and Shepard gets to live. Why the f*ck do you think?

[jtav]

I have a Shepard for each of the three.

Matt: Doesn't believe robots are people and a traditionalist at heart. Plus he just had that touching scene with Kaidan. Destroy.
Alexei: A politically and scientifically minded man who consistently tried to create a new order. Control gives him the power to do so.
Christopher: The Butcher of Torfan responsible for more than a few genocides. Synthesis gave him a chance to be remembered for something else. It's a redemption.

[justafan]

R3MUS wrote...

Well... If you choose destroy and destroy the Reapers, your children will create synthetics and then the chaos will come back. All organic life will cease to exist. There will only be machines in the Universe.

You want that?

There is no proof of this.  The catalyst uses evidence gathered thousands of cycles ago and applies it to all future ones.  Hell, his control group is skewed to begin with, since all his test subjects were thralls of Leviathans.  Thus a situation where organics and synthetics are allowed to develope at the same time without outside influence has NEVER been observed, and thus the results are unkowable.

Also, destroy, it's the only way to be sure.

Modifié par justafan, 15 novembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[Xamufam]

Because the 2 other endings don't make sense to the story.

Wrote somewere else

synthetics vs organic was a minor subplot that ended at rannoch.
It became solvable because of the introduction edi & legion, & it became a minor subplot because of it
If they can feel fear then they are already alive
Legion
also said that the geth would not kill of the last quarians, they did
not have an answer why they did it, that shows that they understand
organics

It seems like the ending was planned at the last minute.

Quarian and Geth Peace
EDI and her humanity
Endgame goodbyes: EDI
Legion after the SM

Modifié par Troxa, 15 novembre 2012 - 07:16 .

[R3MUS]

justafan wrote...

R3MUS wrote...

Well... If you choose destroy and destroy the Reapers, your children will create synthetics and then the chaos will come back. All organic life will cease to exist. There will only be machines in the Universe.

You want that?

There is no proof of this.  The catalyst uses evidence gathered thousands of cycles ago and applies it to all future ones.  Hell, his control group is skewed to begin with, since all his test subjects were thralls of Leviathans.  Thus a situation where organics and synthetics are allowed to develope at the same time without outside influence has NEVER been observed, and thus the results are unkowable.

Also, destroy, it's the only way to be sure.

I rather take my chances with the free will of the people and species than having these Reapers exterminating us. IF the synthetics would rise up against us then we will deal with it ourselves and WHEN that happens. Not 1000 years before.

And if the Leviathans controlled the lesser species, why not just control them so they wont build synthetics at all? Just put "synthetics are bad and should never be built" in all their minds and thoughts?

[sharkboy421]

UltimateSpinDash wrote...

I CAN'T allow the reapers to exist after so many cycles. If the reapers exist for 1 million years, there would have been 20000 cycles. Correct me if I am wrong, but the reapers exist for about 37 million years. This makes 740000 cycles. We can't say how many people died with each cycle, but as the reapers harvest every race that uses the mass relays, alot of people die.

Control fails to me because I won't give that much power to one person. If I ever play a powerhungry Shepard, this is my choice.
Synthesis is the "play god" option. I don't have the right to change the entire galaxy because hologram kid wants me to do so.

Destroy might destroy every form of artificial life, but synthetics can be repaired, though for some reason nobody seems to try. Also, the death of EDI and the Geth was poorly implemented. Hackett never mentions the destruction of the Geth, and the only clue we have that EDI is dead is that her name is on the memorial wall. No sad Joker?

Refusal forces future races to fight the reapers and there will be more deaths.

At last, control and synthesis (especially control) have another flaw: Everyone stops fighting the reapers because they glow green in synthesis, and in control they are like: "Those guys killed my family and my friends and a lot of other people, but hey, now they repair the relays for us. Nobody asks why the reapers switched sides from one moment to another.

I'm gonna be really anal here but your math is really wrong.  1,000,000/50,00 = 20.  However, the oldest known reaper is the one mentioned in the original Leviathan of Dis Codex entry, which was estimated to be 1 billion years old.  1 billion divided by 50,000 does equal 20,000.

Regardless your point stands and I agree with you.  Just sorry but the math thing kinda bothered me.

[ghost9191]

jtav wrote...

I have a Shepard for each of the three.


Christopher: The Butcher of Torfan responsible for more than a few genocides. Synthesis gave him a chance to be remembered for something else. It's a redemption.

well that choice means alot but doubt redemption is part of it . more that ppl would probably expect it from that character . considering past actions

[MattFini]

1. Lance Henriksen narration

2. It's the only ending in which the Reapers get their comeuppance for all the terrible things they've done.

3. It's the only ending in which the Reapers ARE NO LONGER AROUND afterwards.

4. It's the only ending in which Shepard can survive, er, intact.

5. Lance Henriksen narration.