308 réponses à ce sujet

[HK-90210]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Why do I pick destroy?

"I am a vision of the future, Shepard! Flesh and Machine, intertwined! The strength of both! The weakness of neither! We can prove ourselves useful to the Reapers!"

- Indoctrinated Saren Arterius on Synthesis.

"A splinter group argued we should dominate the Reapers. It fractured our order of battle. We later discovered they had been indoctrinated."

- Vendetta on Control.

"An interesting choice, Commander Shepard. You were offered everything geth aspire to, unity, transcendence, you even rejected the Old Machine's gifts to achieve it on your species own terms. You are more like us than we thought."

- Legion on Destroying the Collector Base.

"Because you still have hope this war will end with your honor intact! Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters! The silence is your answer."

- Javik on the price of victory.

"Victory, at any cost."

- Tarquinn Victus

"Are you kidding? I want to kick the Reapers straight to hell! Cerberus too!"

- Kaiden Alenko

"It's something turians are taught from birth. If there's one survivor at the end of the war, the fight was worth it. But humans want to save everyone. In this war, that's not going to happen."

- Garrus Vakarian

"Take this as a reminder Commander. Even in your darkest hour, there is always a way out."

- Urdnot Bakara giving Shepard her Crystal, speaking of when she was forced to claw her way out of the dark for survival.

"Dead Reapers is how we win this."

- Admiral Steven Hackett

"If we destroy the reapers, this ends today! But if you can't control them--"

- Lieutenant Commander Shepard

The ending is about three choices, presented to you by three people. Anderson advocates Destroy. Harper advocates Control. The Catalyst advocates Synthesis.

Harper wants to not only win, but dominate the Reapers. To believe this is even possible, you have to take his word, despite being indoctrinated and every other person besides him telling you it's not possible to Control the Reapers.

The Catalyst wants Synthesis, and why wouldn't it? Synthesis has been it's solution all along, turning people into machines to achieve it's version of 'harmony'. This is the Reaper solution, but every depiction of Synthesis has been atrocious, all the way from Saren, to the Reapers, to the husks. The only positive depiction of Synthesis comes from the quarians and geth working together, and that was achieved without space magic.

Anderson advocates for Destroy, and he represents far more. Harper represents Cerberus and the ideal of human ascendency, The Catalyst represents the Reapers and their 'problem', but Anderson represents the people of the galaxy. He's not wrapped up in ideals, he's like everyone else, he wants the Reapers gone so he can get on with his life.

Given all that has been presented, I can not choose synthesis. The Reapers have been using it all along and it is an abomination that you have to force on an unwilling galaxy. I won't make that decision.

Control is a gamble. I can see the appeal, but you have to be willing to believe your two biggest enemies for the entire game for you to be willing to take it. I do not trust it to work, I do not trust the Catalyst or Harper.

Destroy, while tragic in regards to EDI and the geth, is the only option I can honestly take. Victory at any cost. The relays are severely damaged, the geth may or may not be all dead (we certainly do not see their bodies, but the possibility remains some survived in quarian envirosuits, the EC never actually states all synthetics will be killed, only targeted. Shepard was also supposed to die because he's part synthetic, but is shown to live with high enough EMS), but there is hope. For the first time in billions of years, our galaxy is free of the Reapers. It will be hard, but we can rebuild everything. The relays, our fleets, our worlds, and the geth. And as we have proved organics and synthetics can coexist, the Catalyst's warnings of synthetics turning on us rings hollow. This ending is the only one that guarantees hope for the future, not a keeping of the status quo, or bending to the Catalyst's false logic.

In the end, I fight for freedom. Mine, and everyone's. And if I die, I will die knowing I did everything I could to stop you.

And I succeeded.

That's my ending.

Quoted for ****ing truth. THIS.

[clennon8]

Eterna5 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Funny how reliance on hard logic and the context of the entire game leading up to the ending is somehow being compared to religious fundamentalism by more than one pro-Synth. Meanwhile, the best argument the pro-Synths and pro-Controls can come up with in defense of their choices is "But the epilog slides!" If there's a comparison to be made to religion, it should be made to the literalists. The epilog slides comprise their afterlife. They're buying into the Reapers' indoctrination, and jihading themselves for the promise of some bullsh*t afterlife.

I know that's really going to rub some of y'all pretty raw. So maybe we should just leave stupid-ass accusations of "religious fundamantalism" out of this, eh?

You make such far off statements to demonize our endings and have no evidence besides your ass, How are we supposed to defend our endings from your bat **** crazy headcannon?

In a Post Destroy universe the Yahg will develop a new form of space flight that will make all other citadel species vessels inefficient. This will cause the Yahg to eventually assume control of the citadel and by extension the galaxy. The Asari will fight and then lose, eventually going extinct. Prove me wrong?

Sounds like the basis for a great game to me.

To speak to your first point.  It isn't about demonizing the non-Destroy endings.  It's about recognizing the ending of the game as the consistent, logical culmination of a 100-hour epic, and not a completely separate, distinct event bereft of all context.

[Nerevar-as]

AlanC9 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

 Destroy also paints a bright future, but in that one it doesn´t look there´ll be an everlasting utopy, so it´s easier to accept. That it´s the only ending where dealing with the Reapers has a significant cost also helps. Yeah, Shepard dies in the other 2, but one (wo)man dies to save everyone and brings utopia to everything across the galaxy.

Well, some players also seem to count not blowing the Reapers up as a significant cost. Not because anything bad will happen because they're alive, but just because they deserve to be destroyed. (Though such people often proceed to headcanon that something awful will happen)

Not my case. Although I see destroying the Reapers as putting to rest who they were, if I had been offered an option I found reasonable to stop them that would spare them I would have taken it. Had it been possible to reverse the uploading indoctrination they probably suffered I´d have done it and let them choose their own fate.

[Dr_Extrem]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...


You make such far off statements to demonize our endings and have no evidence besides your ass, How are we supposed to defend our endings from your bat **** crazy headcannon?

In a Post Destroy universe the Yahg will develop a new form of space flight that will make all other citadel species vessels inefficient. This will cause the Yahg to eventually assume control of the citadel and by extension the galaxy. The Asari will fight and then lose, evventually going extinct. Prove me wrong?

At least the galaxy will die without the Reapers stomping down the street. Hell, if I was a parent, do you think I'd want to send my kid to school every morning knowing there are Reapers walking around? Hell no.

And for god's sake, do you really believe if we can stop the Reapers we can't stop the Yahg?

Also, again, you blatantly ignore the facts. There is little foreshadow of the yahg rising up to take over the galaxy. There IS a tremendous amount of foreshadow that Control will end badly, and this only changes in the last ten minutes when the Catalyst, who would have let TIM do it because 'we already controlled him' tells you it will.

Hey, if you want that to be your ending, by all means. But don't expect the rest of us to go along with it just because you did, and please, feel free to keep your childish insults to yourself.

there is one really easy way to thwart the yagh - just dont fix their mass relay.

[ElSuperGecko]

clennon8 wrote...
Meanwhile, the best argument the pro-Synths and pro-Controls can come up with in defense of their choices is "But the epilog slides!" If there's a comparison to be made to religion, it should be made to the literalists. The epilog slides comprise their afterlife. They're buying into the Reapers' indoctrination, and jihading themselves for the promise of some bullsh*t afterlife.

I completely agree.

The ending slides, and what they show (or more importantly seem to show, or don't show) should not be taken into account when your Shepard makes their decision.

It's a Schrodinger's Cat situation.  Shepard has no idea what will happen after making the decision, but people justify their decision based on what the epilogues show.  Their Shepards appear to be clairvoyant.

If anything, the reasoning behind your final decision should be made by taking into account everything the player has witnessed prior to that point, not afterwards.  And in that case, the evidence for and reasons to choose Destroy are MUCH more favourable than the reasons to pick either Synthesis or Control.

[Eterna]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...


You make such far off statements to demonize our endings and have no evidence besides your ass, How are we supposed to defend our endings from your bat **** crazy headcannon?

In a Post Destroy universe the Yahg will develop a new form of space flight that will make all other citadel species vessels inefficient. This will cause the Yahg to eventually assume control of the citadel and by extension the galaxy. The Asari will fight and then lose, evventually going extinct. Prove me wrong?

At least the galaxy will die without the Reapers stomping down the street. Hell, if I was a parent, do you think I'd want to send my kid to school every morning knowing there are Reapers walking around? Hell no.

And for god's sake, do you really believe if we can stop the Reapers we can't stop the Yahg?

Also, again, you blatantly ignore the facts. There is little foreshadow of the yahg rising up to take over the galaxy. There IS a tremendous amount of foreshadow that Control will end badly, and this only changes in the last ten minutes when the Catalyst, who would have let TIM do it because 'we already controlled him' tells you it will.

The Salarians say they are going to uplift the Yahg. You can't discount the possibility of it happening, not only that but one Yahg had the ability to be the Shadow Broker, they are more intelligent than we think.

 The risk is too great, if you pick Desroy the Yahg will control the universe and I can't take that risk. That is why Destroy is the worse ending, because my stupid bat **** retarded headcannon is true and you should all believe it because I say so. 

 

[JBPBRC]

It kills the damn Starchild. Nuff said.

[clennon8]

AlanC9 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Funny how reliance on hard logic and the context of the entire game leading up to the ending is somehow being compared to religious fundamentalism by more than one pro-Synth. Meanwhile, the best argument the pro-Synths and pro-Controls can come up with in defense of their choices is "But the epilog slides!" If there's a comparison to be made to religion, it should be made to the literalists. The epilog slides comprise their afterlife. They're buying into the Reapers' indoctrination, and jihading themselves for the promise of some bullsh*t afterlife.

I know that's really going to rub some of y'all pretty raw. So maybe we should just leave stupid-ass accusations of "religious fundamantalism" out of this, eh?

Rub raw? No... it's just kinda silly.

Q.E.D.

[Nerevar-as]

christrek1982 wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Because people think that being told to do something for 3 games as opposed to 1 game isn't indoctrination.

A man who thinks the same at 70 as he did at 20 has learned nothing.

plus people are attached to their shepard.

this is one of the reason how Bio didn't see this as a problem I don't know or mabe they didn't care.

The hero sacrificing him/herself to bring a better future is a common and powerful theme. Sadly good writing is also required.

[AlanC9]

KingZayd wrote...

"When can I go to the stars?"
"One day, my sweet"
"What will be there?"
What:? A kid growing up in this future utopia of yours somehow doesn't know the slightest thing about space? Has education fallen so far? Or could it be that civilisation as we know it has collapsed?

Well,"one day" means that the kid will go to space someday. You wouldn't tell a kid that today unless you're an idiot, since he isn't going to go.

As for the rest... yeah, that scene made much more sense pre-EC, with the relays blown up. Even if you have mass effect drives, you don't know much about what's out there. And some planets almost certainly would collapse.

Note that even post -EC, in Destroy some planets would be out of communcation for decades, probably centuries -- even if scientists on Earth or Thessia figure out how to fix relays, if you don't have a working QEC they can't give you the plans, so you're stuck until ships reach you through normal FTL.  In Control and presumably Synthesis the relays should be back within a generation or so, since Repaers can cross the galaxy in about a decade.

[AlanC9]

clennon8 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Funny how reliance on hard logic and the context of the entire game leading up to the ending is somehow being compared to religious fundamentalism by more than one pro-Synth. Meanwhile, the best argument the pro-Synths and pro-Controls can come up with in defense of their choices is "But the epilog slides!" If there's a comparison to be made to religion, it should be made to the literalists. The epilog slides comprise their afterlife. They're buying into the Reapers' indoctrination, and jihading themselves for the promise of some bullsh*t afterlife.

I know that's really going to rub some of y'all pretty raw. So maybe we should just leave stupid-ass accusations of "religious fundamantalism" out of this, eh?

Rub raw? No... it's just kinda silly.

Q.E.D.

What was demonstrated?

[clennon8]

Your lack of reading comprehension, apparently.

[AlanC9]

ElSuperGecko wrote...
If anything, the reasoning behind your final decision should be made by taking into account everything the player has witnessed prior to that point, not afterwards.  And in that case, the evidence for and reasons to choose Destroy are MUCH more favourable than the reasons to pick either Synthesis or Control.

I agree with the first sentence, but I don't see how the second follows. What evidence and reasons are you referring to?

[RiptideX1090]

Eterna5 wrote...

The Salarians say they are going to uplift the Yahg. You can't discount the possibility of it happening, not only that but one Yahg had the ability to be the Shadow Broker, they are more intelligent than we think.

 The risk is too great, if you pick Desroy the Yahg will control the universe and I can't take that risk. That is why Destroy is the worse ending, because my stupid bat **** retarded headcannon is true and you should all believe it because I say so. 

You go ahead and think about that, your Reapers slaughtering the yahg because they might be a problem.

Me? I'm going to be thinking about how awesome the house I'm building for Tali is gonna look, on a cliff overlooking the beach and the Reaper corpse we blew up on Rannoch, and how awesome it's gonna be inviting Garrus and Javik and Kaiden and Joker all over for poker night.

[CDR David Shepard]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Because people think that being told to do something for 3 games as opposed to 1 game isn't indoctrination.

A man who thinks the same at 70 as he did at 20 has learned nothing.

A character changing their mind at the last second about Control just because a Reaper leader AI, that looks like the kid in their dreams, says it's possible...sounds more like indoctrination to me.

To each their own.

Also...comparing 50 years of real life to roughly 60 hours of sci-fi gameplay...is as absurd as it sounds.

Modifié par CDR David Shepard, 15 novembre 2012 - 11:16 .

[Nerevar-as]

Eterna5 wrote...

The Salarians say they are going to uplift the Yahg. You can't discount the possibility of it happening, not only that but one Yahg had the ability to be the Shadow Broker, they are more intelligent than we think.

 The risk is too great, if you pick Desroy the Yahg will control the universe and I can't take that risk. That is why Destroy is the worse ending, because my stupid bat **** retarded headcannon is true and you should all believe it because I say so. 
 

Not in my game. The rest of the council races know after Shepard´s visit, and after sitting out of the war as much as they could I don´t see the Dalatrass in charge much longer. They stop playing the idiot or we´ll give their planet to the Krogan.

[AlanC9]

clennon8 wrote...

Your lack of reading comprehension, apparently.

What didn't I comprehend? You said your earlier point would rub some of us raw. Maybe it does that for some people, but your point just read as kinda silly to me, like I said. I didn't see why anyone would be rubbed raw by it.

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 novembre 2012 - 11:17 .

[RiptideX1090]

JBPBRC wrote...

It kills the damn Starchild. Nuff said.

Seriously, this.

No one ever has to suffer listening to his idiot-logic ever again, and Harbinger is finally shut up forever.

I call that a win.

[Eterna]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The Salarians say they are going to uplift the Yahg. You can't discount the possibility of it happening, not only that but one Yahg had the ability to be the Shadow Broker, they are more intelligent than we think.

 The risk is too great, if you pick Desroy the Yahg will control the universe and I can't take that risk. That is why Destroy is the worse ending, because my stupid bat **** retarded headcannon is true and you should all believe it because I say so. 

You go ahead and think about that, your Reapers slaughtering the yahg because they might be a problem.

Me? I'm going to be thinking about how awesome the house I'm building for Tali is gonna look, on a cliff overlooking the beach and the Reaper corpse we blew up on Rannoch, and how awesome it's gonna be inviting Garrus and Javik and Kaiden and Joker all over for poker night.

The Yahg don't live in houses so they'd tear it down. Also, they outlawed games of chance in my headcannon. Sorry, but your headcannon is invalid to my headcannon. 

[Applepie_Svk]

What if I told you... that intelligence is Harbinger

[christrek1982]

Nerevar-as wrote...

christrek1982 wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Because people think that being told to do something for 3 games as opposed to 1 game isn't indoctrination.

A man who thinks the same at 70 as he did at 20 has learned nothing.

plus people are attached to their shepard.

this is one of the reason how Bio didn't see this as a problem I don't know or mabe they didn't care.

The hero sacrificing him/herself to bring a better future is a common and powerful theme. Sadly good writing is also required.

yes I have seen it work before DA:O gladeator in this case it didn't.

[RiptideX1090]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

What if I told you... that intelligence is Harbinger

I'd tell you 'two for the price of one'.

[JBPBRC]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

It kills the damn Starchild. Nuff said.

Seriously, this.

No one ever has to suffer listening to his idiot-logic ever again, and Harbinger is finally shut up forever.

I call that a win.

Eh, Harbinger doesn't really count. He last spoke in ME2 after all.

[Applepie_Svk]

christrek1982 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

christrek1982 wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Because people think that being told to do something for 3 games as opposed to 1 game isn't indoctrination.

A man who thinks the same at 70 as he did at 20 has learned nothing.

plus people are attached to their shepard.

this is one of the reason how Bio didn't see this as a problem I don't know or mabe they didn't care.

The hero sacrificing him/herself to bring a better future is a common and powerful theme. Sadly good writing is also required.

yes I have seen it work before DA:O gladeator in this case it didn't.

and that was my favourite ending in DA:O...

[Applepie_Svk]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

What if I told you... that intelligence is Harbinger

I'd tell you 'two for the price of one'.

good one...

No but seriously... 

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 15 novembre 2012 - 11:22 .