66 réponses à ce sujet

[Luminus]

Sarielle wrote...

Ah well, we'll see how it goes. Not starting over yet again.

Don't forget there are always magic arrows. Plus wands, scrolls, rods etc. Yeah, they don't do as much damage or have DC high as proper casters but still do their job.

SoU has kobolds, gnolls, giants, animals, people, bugs, mephits etc. 
www.gamefaqs.com/pc/563551-neverwinter-nights-shadows-of-undrentide/faqs/51548 . Section 18.

HotU has drow, orcs, trolls, duergar, slaads, vrocks, driders etc.
www.gamefaqs.com/pc/563552-neverwinter-nights-hordes-of-the-underdark/faqs/51555. Section 18, also.

Those are weak to sneak attacks and you have companions for everything else and Imbue Arrow also.
It's not like the campaigns are swarmed only with undead.

There are, yes, have Cleric-focused Dorna pummel them with maces or hammers and Valen smash them to a million pieces with his Heavy Flail while you shoot elemental arrow that DO damage.

It's not fun being perfect at every situation. Switching tactics is fun.

Modifié par Luminus, 20 novembre 2012 - 03:11 .

[Aelis Eine]

In SoU, there was an undead crypt in Chapter 1, and the Interlude was almost completely undead.

In HotU, there was a part with Vampire Monks and a Dracolich, and another part with Adamantine and Mithril golems. They all have high SR, so scrolls will be wasted on them.

I honestly wouldn't bother with elemental arrows. If you have a stack in your inventory, cool. If not, don't waste gold buying them unless it's the infinite ones at a certain spoileriffic place. Just take the Weapon Finesse feat and use a mace yourself. Scroll it up with Bless Weapon and Flame Weapon. Saves a lot more time.

Modifié par Aelis Eine, 20 novembre 2012 - 03:11 .

[Luminus]

Aelis Eine wrote...

In SoU, there was an undead crypt in Chapter 1, and the Interlude was almost completely undead.

In HotU, there was a part with Vampire Monks and a Dracolich, and another part with Adamantine and Mithril golems. They all have high SR, so scrolls will be wasted on them.

I honestly wouldn't bother with elemental arrows. If you have a stack in your inventory, cool. If not, don't waste gold buying them unless it's the infinite ones at a certain spoileriffic place. Just take the Weapon Finesse feat and use a mace yourself. Scroll it up with Bless Weapon and Flame Weapon. Saves a lot more time.

The gold you would spend on buying weapons or enchantments for it, is going to buy arrows. Since AA takes care of the enhancement bonus part. But yes, if you find them it's even better.

But neither the Bard/AA can deal with those enemies. I'm not talking about a Divine Might archer.
Also the golems are immune to all magic, does that make a mage useless too? And before you say that mages have summons, those fall quite easily to the golems and they have damage reduction also.

About the undead crypt, which she probably got past it or not, she has Dorna for it. Maybe some wands too. Even if she didn't take UMD, a Wiz level provides you access to them anyway, unless I'm mistaken.

And I am not sure the Dracolich is easy to beat with ANY build. Maybe with Paladin that has Lay on Hands or one that uses Divine Might?

Still, according to the FAQs, the majority of monsters are sneak attackable.

Modifié par Luminus, 20 novembre 2012 - 03:28 .

[Aelis Eine]

Luminus wrote...

The gold you would spend on buying weapons or enchantments for it, is going to buy arrows. Since AA takes care of the enhancement bonus part. But yes, if you find them it's even better.

But neither the Bard/AA can deal with those enemies. I'm not talking about a Divine Might archer.
Also the golems are immune to all magic, does that make a mage useless too? And before you say that mages have summons, those fall quite easily to the golems and they have damage reduction also.

About the undead crypt, which she probably got past it or not, she has Dorna for it. Maybe some wands too. Even if she didn't take UMD, a Wiz level provides you access to them anyway, unless I'm mistaken.

And I am not sure the Dracolich is easy to beat with ANY build. Maybe with Paladin that has Lay on Hands or one that uses Divine Might?

Still, according to the FAQs, the majority of monsters is sneak attackable.

The only thing really needed for an undead-killing mace is a +2d6 damage when you get to that point. If I remember right, a +2 mace is about the same price as a stack of 99 1d6 arrows, and those 99 arrows will be used up in about 3 minutes on an archer with Rapid Shot and Haste. The +2 mace lasts for ~3 hours of gameplay before it needs to be replaced with a +5, or simply needs a GMW to cover the AB.

Mages don't actually need to cast spells to kill things in epic levels. By that point all they really need is Acid Sheath, Elemental Shield, Death Armor and maybe some resistance items and buffs if they dont have Warding yet. Then they can just kind of stand there and chug potions while everyone kills themselves.

I think the Dracolich has 26 SR? So with a Mords (-9 SR) and a Greater Spell Penetration (+4 Caster level check), just about any mage should be able to open with a GMS, Time Stop and drop 3 more GMSes kill it before it has a chance to react.

A fully buffed Cleric should be able to drop a Heal or Mass Heal on it from Greater Sanctuary and follow up with a quick hit to take it down. If not, it gets about 4 more tries or so, so the odds are against the Dracolich avoiding all 5 GSed flatfoot healbombs.

For Melee, other than the Paladin, Just about everyone else will have to go through its 3 heals. A straight up Str-based Bard X/Blackguard 4 with Divine Might and Curse Song might be able to buff their damage enough and cut its Concentration enough to interrupt its heals.

Modifié par Aelis Eine, 20 novembre 2012 - 04:12 .

[Sarielle]

Yeah, crypt wasn't too bad. I don't have the difficulty ramped all the way up, though. It's in the middle by default so that's where I left it.

[cds13]

Well, as a bard I wouldn't see the fact to bring with you another bard (i.e. Sharwyn or Deekin) as a real problem. Let them cast the "bard song" while you use the "curse song", that would be a nice sinergy. You don't have to worry to put any points on "lore", they would recognize items for you (Deekin is better than Sharwyn at this while Sharwyn is a better fighter than the kobold).

[MagicalMaster]

Luminus wrote...

But neither the Bard/AA can deal with those enemies. I'm not talking about a Divine Might archer.

Bard/AA potentially has more AA levels, can raise AB/AC/Damage with Bard Song, and can debuff AB/AC/Damage with Curse Song.  If you raise your AB by 2 and drop their AC by 2, you're often doing 40%-60% more damage per round.  And taking the equivalent less.  Something like a 17 bard/23 AA would really rip stuff up with +2 AB/+5 AC to friends and -2 AB/-5 AC to enemies (could do 20/20 if you wanted the longer bard song).

Luminus wrote...

And I am not sure the Dracolich is easy to beat with ANY build. Maybe with Paladin that has Lay on Hands or one that uses Divine Might?

I've always shredded it.

Though I've mainly played Weapon Master, Sorcerer, and Cleric.

Here's something I'd find amusing: give me a general build type to do the Dracolich with and I'll see how I fare.  I'll try to do it within the next weekish and FRAPS it.

P.S. What golems were immune to magic?  That's not really ringing a bell.

[MrZork]

And, the cult dracolich in HotU is generally not as tough as the standard NWN dracolich, though it has a higher SR (32) and is pretty much immune to turning. A couple of the Maker's golems have relatively high SR (32) and many have SR 26. None of them has the level 0-9 spell level immunity that standard huge iron golems have. Any caster who can use a stack of Mord's scrolls won't find their spell resistance to be a big problem, though relying on scrolls or items for offensive spells may not be reliable.

The shield guardians in SoU are immune to spells of level 0-4, though there is a plot crutch for casters (or anyone else) who find them to be too much.

AAs tend to be very effective builds, particularly when coupled with an effective tank. I tend to prefer the rogue/AA route for their stealth and efficiency in dealing with non-sneak-immune mobs. Interestingly, I would say that HotU chapter 2 is tougher than chapter 3 because roughly half of the four main quests feature crit/sneak immune opponents. But, by the time the PC has access to Rizolvir and some gold, very little is left to challenge him, particularly if one exploits the dialog for the smith. Really, to make HotU more challenging, the first thing to do is to ignore Rizolvir as a smith...

But, keep in mind that there is little point in considering level 40 builds when dealing with the SoU and HotU match-ups. A player is unlikely to be higher than level 10 when he first encounters the SoU shield guardians and will probably be in his lower twenties when he hits the Maker's golems and the cult dracolich.

[Sarielle]

Got to the part in Act 2 where I am forced to solo for a bit ... and didn't crawl into a corner and cry like a little girl as per previous playthroughs. Having a very good time, guys! Things take a bit longer on sneak-attack immune stuff but I've gotten around most things just by packratting scrolls (which, let's face it, I always do this anyway) and using them intelligently. I've also gotten lucky with finding special arrows so I haven't run into any, "Seriously, I am 100% useless" moments.

It'd been so long I totally forgot Drogan died and what Heurodis actually was, hah.

[HipMaestro]

Sarielle wrote...
Got to the part in Act 2 where I am forced to solo for a bit ...

Where would that be?  Can't figure out how to thaw out your stoned henchie?  I don't ever remember leaving Deekin behind.  He sulks if I do.

[Sarielle]

HipMaestro wrote...

Sarielle wrote...
Got to the part in Act 2 where I am forced to solo for a bit ...

Where would that be?  Can't figure out how to thaw out your stoned henchie?  I don't ever remember leaving Deekin behind.  He sulks if I do.

I didn't know you could thaw him out! I was all set to take Dorna the whole way but ... Deekin is so awesome, lol. I missed his narrating the action too much, even though I largely let him buff me and then make him stand in the back so he doesn't die.

I assumed after I got the slaver what he wanted I could get him thawed out. Like I said, it's been so long it's really like playing a new game for me, lol.

[HipMaestro]

Sarielle wrote...
I didn't know you could thaw him out! I was all set to take Dorna the whole way but ... Deekin is so awesome, lol. I missed his narrating the action too much, even though I largely let him buff me and then make him stand in the back so he doesn't die.

I assumed after I got the slaver what he wanted I could get him thawed out. Like I said, it's been so long it's really like playing a new game for me, lol.

Well, there are 2 ways.  The "cheap" way is to use the same Ointment that was used to thaw out the sphinx in the Anauroch ruins (IIRC the shield guardian in one of the rooms drops it on death or maybe its just laying in a chest in that room.  Memory fading here, sry.).  There should be lots of charges left on it and any class can use it.  The expensive way is to buy a scroll of Stone to Flesh from Ashnara, the slaver.  There is no need to complete any quest to unstone your companion.

Even though he sometimes picks an inopportune time to start asking questions, IMO Deekin's interplay is too entertaining to miss out on.  Whoever wrote his dialogue had a great sense of humor.  Also, Deekin is the only henchie that can accompany you through your entire journey through Underdark in the next expansion and will reflect on your companionship in the Undrentide campaign.  I've found if you remove any melee weapon from his inventory and allow him only his xbow, he will tend to stay out of harm's way better.  Also, if you fully exhaust all his spells by buffing, he won't try to buff further or use offensive spells during combat (a useful technique to remember should you rehire him in the next expansion). That blasted Iron Horn spell that he spams can keep knocking a Dexer prone when it is very inconvenient.

BTW, haven't really checked the details of the build suggestions very closely but I gathered you had some rogue mixed into it so I recommend HIGHLY that you elect Called Shot feat along the way.  An AA will have no trouble hitting with Called Shots. Ranged sneaks can only be executed within 30 ft of a target so that means you'll need to slow down the mobs a bit and leg shots will do that for you.  30 ft is about 10 steps away from a foe which can get kinda hairy and you don't want to subject your archer to any unnecessary AoOs or losing your DEX AC.  Just a suggestion.  Played LOTS of archers in the campaigns.

Once I got past the tedious first chapter (tedious to me anyway), I really liked SoU as it seems to reflect a much better balance than any of the other campaigns (makes you be much more resourceful than the others IMO) and the closest to PnP gaming.  Enjoy your revisit to Undrentide! I know you will.

Modifié par HipMaestro, 24 novembre 2012 - 06:05 .

[Sarielle]

DOH dangit I didn't realize you could thaw out the Sphinx. Rassem frassem.

[HipMaestro]

Sarielle wrote...

DOH dangit I didn't realize you could thaw out the Sphinx. Rassem frassem.

Hmmm.  That means you also missed out on getting the Power Stone then.  
Well, that's what replays are for, grabbing anything you missed the other time(s).

BTW, he's really really tough, but if you can kill him, the sphinx gives LOTS of XP.

[Sarielle]

Yeah, I just looked through my bag and there are a heck of a lot of nifty items I'd forgotten I had. The Stone to Flesh item wasn't the only one. I'm good about keeping up with spell scrolls but the other random artifacts, not so much.

Anyways, yeah, I wish more games let you keep a companion like Deekin around for your whole epic adventure. Too many of them seem to get bored with their own characters and write them out for the sequel. Occasionally it just makes sense for them to move on. Morrigan in DA:O (she obviously had her own goals and motives all along) and Bishop in MotB (even without the chaotic stupid ending they gave him, I don't see him maintaining a long-term relationship with anybody, lol) make sense to not be available. But for the less independent companions -- particularly love interests -- it's always kind of a letdown. Awakening was much less fun for my warden who did the ritual and romanced Zev, for instance, because ... why isn't Zevran there with my gal again on this obviously dangerous adventure?

Anyways, I'm still waiting for a companion in any game to top Deekin. Hasn't happened yet. Even my evil playthroughs (I don't play sociopath types) get a kick out of Deekin, sort of like his Old Master did.

[Knight_Shield]

Maybe BG/AA/Bard built on charisma.

[Sarielle]

EDIT: reposted in HotU section since that's where it belongs.

Modifié par Sarielle, 01 décembre 2012 - 11:22 .