82 réponses à ce sujet

[Realmzmaster]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Something I recently realized.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

...Based on our previous discussions regarding DAO's dialogue (and your insistence that the player-selected lines did have a fixed tone), it's clear that the way you expected DAO to be played was not how I played it.

Me neither. I saw all the dialog in DA:O as tone-less. Perhaps with sarcasm or humor, but not "aggressive" or "diplomatic." I didn't see that at all.

And the game never contradicted me.

Right, and that highlights a playstyle which appears will no longer be possible now that we have voiced protagonists.

So, given that we have voiced protagonists, how do we play?  I think I and others like me have done a very good job of describing how we played DAO (and prior games), and how that didn't seem to work in DA2 (or ME), so that offers a good basis from which to begin a description of how gameplay can work with the voiced protagonist in DA3.

Ultimately, I didn't enjoy playing D2 because I didn't get it.  I didn't understand what it was I was doing, as a player.  I didn't understand my part in the interactivity.

I think this is an opportunity for BioWare to retain some confused players who need some guidance.

I'm sorry but I have to call bull**** on this the Warden's lines clearly had a tone based on the way npcs reacted.

Actually it is not if you play the way StM does. The only tone that matters is the one that he has assign to the line that he chose. If the npc reacts in a different way it is because the npc failed to understand the tone in which the line was delivered. You and I know (in our humble opinions) that the lines were written in a certain tone and are placed in a specific hierarchy that is irrevelant as far as StM is concerned.

[Shadow Fox]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Something I recently realized.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

...Based on our previous discussions regarding DAO's dialogue (and your insistence that the player-selected lines did have a fixed tone), it's clear that the way you expected DAO to be played was not how I played it.

Me neither. I saw all the dialog in DA:O as tone-less. Perhaps with sarcasm or humor, but not "aggressive" or "diplomatic." I didn't see that at all.

And the game never contradicted me.

Right, and that highlights a playstyle which appears will no longer be possible now that we have voiced protagonists.

So, given that we have voiced protagonists, how do we play?  I think I and others like me have done a very good job of describing how we played DAO (and prior games), and how that didn't seem to work in DA2 (or ME), so that offers a good basis from which to begin a description of how gameplay can work with the voiced protagonist in DA3.

Ultimately, I didn't enjoy playing D2 because I didn't get it.  I didn't understand what it was I was doing, as a player.  I didn't understand my part in the interactivity.

I think this is an opportunity for BioWare to retain some confused players who need some guidance.

I'm sorry but I have to call bull**** on this the Warden's lines clearly had a tone based on the way npcs reacted.

Actually it is not if you play the way StM does. The only tone that matters is the one that he has assign to the line that he chose. If the npc reacts in a different way it is because the npc failed to understand the tone in which the line was delivered. You and I know (in our humble opinions) that the lines were written in a certain tone and are placed in a specific hierarchy that is irrevelant as far as StM is concerned.

So he can headcanon the Warden's responses yet he says Hawke is less of his character because he/she has a voice to go with the lines eventhough you also gave the Warden a voiceset?*scrathes head*

[Sylvius the Mad]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Actually it is not if you play the way StM does. The only tone that matters is the one that he has assign to the line that he chose. If the npc reacts in a different way it is because the npc failed to understand the tone in which the line was delivered. You and I know (in our humble opinions) that the lines were written in a certain tone and are placed in a specific hierarchy that is irrevelant as far as StM is concerned.

Actually, you've taken that a bit too far.  The misunderstanding approach is something I offered to other players as a way to  play like I do without surrending their understanding of human interaction.

But I don't share that understanding.  I don't need to conclude that the NPC misunderstood what the PC said or how he said it, because I don't pretend to know what goes on in other people's minds.

Oddly enough, John McAfee just advanced a very similar position on his blog.

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

So he can headcanon the Warden's responses yet he says Hawke is less of his character because he/she has a voice to go with the lines eventhough you also gave the Warden a voiceset?*scrathes head*

The voiceset doesn't speak the player-selected lines.  When I choose a dialogue option in DAO, never does the game tell me how that line is delivered.

That said, I do think the voicesets in DAO were a bad idea.  Luckily, they could be modded out.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 20 novembre 2012 - 07:53 .

[Xewaka]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
So he can headcanon the Warden's responses yet he says Hawke is less of his character because he/she has a voice to go with the lines eventhough you also gave the Warden a voiceset?*scrathes head*

The voiceset doesn't speak the player-selected lines.  When I choose a dialogue option in DAO, never does the game tell me how that line is delivered.
That said, I do think the voicesets in DAO were a bad idea.  Luckily, they could be modded out.

I always considered the voiceover as part of the game interface, not part of the character. For me, it's an audio cue that acknowledges a command is given, and nothing else.
I need to find the discussion where Upsettingshorts defines first person gaming and third person gaming. That might be enlightening on the process.
As far as I am aware, DA2 and ME expect you not to have a full character defined before playing, but rather a broad strokes collection of traits, which will be further coalesced on a point-by-point basis as the game progresses and more of the character's option Bioware intended show in the dialogue. You're not expected to know your character, only the broad direction you want to take it, and hope it fits one of the directions Bioware has given them. Needless to say, I find that method sorely lacking.

Modifié par Xewaka, 20 novembre 2012 - 12:24 .

[sylvanaerie]

I kind of play by the spur of the moment, what feels right for this particular character method. I kind of liked that the personality of the Hawke character allowed for different ways of dealing with problems in the game (Diplomacy, Charm or Aggression) and played out many different personalities using those as a basis for my roleplaying. Never let any 'personality' pigeonhole you into one thing.

One of my Diplomatic mage Hawke's was the most pacifistic character I could play (within the confines of an action game), always choosing a peaceful solution when available, and had a completely different feel from my Diplomatic warrior Hawke. My sarcastic rogue LadyHawke (my favorite playthrough) was completely irreverant, taking nothing seriously (i chose all the sarcastic options), differing markedly in tone and feeling from my charming mage Hawke. My aggressive warriors are completely different from my aggressive mage. You can choose all the same options in the story and still it can have a different feel if you're roleplaying it out in your head as well.