50 réponses à ce sujet

[devSin]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

You remember the low resolution elves in Kirkwall?  The baked-in lighting and shadows?  The repeated environments?  The levels on rails?

I'll give you the low-poly NPC models and possibly the level design, but static lighting is hardly a unique or even detrimental thing (even ME uses principally static lighting), and I'm pretty sure you don't actually believe the map reuse had anything to do with the engine.

Make fun of the old engine if you want, but there's a lot more going on than the graphics, and that stuff deserves to be respected (and potentially mourned).

[deuce985]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It can't possibly hinder quality as much as Eclipse did.

[CrazyRah]

Personally i'm not worried about the new engine. Eclipse wasn't that spectacular and so far Frostbite 2 has shown some pretty sweet stuff. I'm very interested to see what the dev team can do utilizing the new engine

[Kail Ashton]

"Do You Think The New Engine Will Hinder Quality?" AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! hillarius!!! oh you devious comedian you~! implying dragon age was ever quality! AHAHAHAHAHA!! *wipes tears from my eyes* you sir are a true comedic genius

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh *deep breathes* but yeah, when the engine they used set the bar so low even ameba couldn't limbo under it, unless a bioware dev goes to your house & smashes your system with a hammer it would be impossible for it to be worse quality

[Maria Caliban]

I like BioWare games but have never picked one up for the gorgeous visuals. On an aesthetic level, I think Jade Empire is still their best looking game. I wonder what Dragon Age 2 would have looked like if it had as much love and time as DA:O, but it didn't, and I can only judge what's on my screen.

I don't think that BioWare is going to start putting emphasis on eye-candy, because their design philosophy seems to be one of function over form, as it were.

[upsettingshorts]

devSin wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

You remember the low resolution elves in Kirkwall?  The baked-in lighting and shadows?  The repeated environments?  The levels on rails?

I'll give you the low-poly NPC models and possibly the level design, but static lighting is hardly a unique or even detrimental thing (even ME uses principally static lighting), and I'm pretty sure you don't actually believe the map reuse had anything to do with the engine.

Make fun of the old engine if you want, but there's a lot more going on than the graphics, and that stuff deserves to be respected (and potentially mourned).

It takes longer to build a level when every time you make a change you have to rebake the lighting and shadows, which takes hours.  When it takes seconds or minutes there's more you can do.  That's my understanding of it.

If the repeated environments in DA2 weren't a result of it being rushed, and therefore a time issue, what was the cause then?  Why else didn't they "simply" make more, bigger levels?  They... liked repeated enviornments?  

Or you could, instead of taking my word for it, actually watch the seminar video I linked (part 1 of 5, all of which I recommend) where the DICE guy explains in detail exactly what I'm referring to.

What exactly is this "stuff" you think Eclipse did that deserved to be respected (or mourned) that you think Frostbite 2 will be unable to duplicate or improve upon?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 novembre 2012 - 11:10 .

[Atakuma]

BioWare Art and Animation Director Neil Thompson

“It makes my job easier because then it’s all about discussing the aesthetic and what you want to achieve,” he explained. “When you’re a character artist or an environment artist, you’re focusing on a small aspect of the greater whole of the game. As an art director, you’re concerned about the whole, the frame, and everything it contains and how everything sits and the consistency. An engine like Frostbite allows you to focus more on that rather than the technological challenges of just getting the damn thing to run.”

Modifié par Atakuma, 16 novembre 2012 - 11:05 .

[upsettingshorts]

@Atakuma: Makes sense and is consistent with the advantages Frostbite 2 offers developers as explained by DICE in the seminar video.

Here's the link to the article that quote is from.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 novembre 2012 - 11:09 .

[Ghost]

ReconTeam wrote...

All I want to say is, please no lens flare. Why do all games need so much lens flare now?

That bothered me in Halo 4.

[Ghost]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I like BioWare games but have never picked one up for the gorgeous visuals. On an aesthetic level, I think Jade Empire is still their best looking game. I wonder what Dragon Age 2 would have looked like if it had as much love and time as DA:O, but it didn't, and I can only judge what's on my screen.

I don't think that BioWare is going to start putting emphasis on eye-candy, because their design philosophy seems to be one of function over form, as it were.

I <3 ME2's art direction. 

[slimgrin]

Ghost1017 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I like BioWare games but have never picked one up for the gorgeous visuals. On an aesthetic level, I think Jade Empire is still their best looking game. I wonder what Dragon Age 2 would have looked like if it had as much love and time as DA:O, but it didn't, and I can only judge what's on my screen.

I don't think that BioWare is going to start putting emphasis on eye-candy, because their design philosophy seems to be one of function over form, as it were.

I <3 ME2's art direction. 

Mass Effect has always had superb art direction - all three games. Dragon Age, on the other hand, is like ME's uglier little brother. Which is why I'm curious about Frostbite 2. Combined with the inept art design of DA2, it could be a train wreck like no other. Or maybe they'll finally manage to create a distinct look for DA.

Modifié par slimgrin, 17 novembre 2012 - 12:11 .

[DaringMoosejaw]

Random racing game I played with same engine is shorter than another racing game I played -> Engine will hinder quality of DA3.

That is a really bizarre train of thought that I am not sure how you arrived at.

[f1r3storm]

Can only be better than Eclipse which was already outdated when Origins came out.

[cindercatz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...


In this video DICE gives a seminar on the advantages of Frostbite 2, and one of them was the speed at which they could get the job done using it.  

Lighting is so much better than when I learned it.. Watching that video, the engine seems fun to work with, because it allows you to light, adjust, and readjust so efficiently. It handles reflection very efficiently. It can only help, speeding render times and automating more of that adjustment only helps.

edit: I'm only commenting on lighting, because that's what that video mainly focusses on. That alone is very impressive.

Modifié par cindercatz, 17 novembre 2012 - 09:23 .

[Fredward]

EntropicAngel wrote...
 So I recently got Need For Speed The Run. There's a lot I could say about it, but the important part is that it had the Frostbite 2 engine. And, one thing I noticed about it was that it was very short, and it felt like the developers...limited the number of on-screen characters. I suspected this had something to do with the engine.

Do you guys think something like this could happen with DA ]|[? Developers get so caught up with making the game look pretty that the game's length (or, let's just say generally, quality) is shortened? I enjoy goodlooking games, don't get me wrong, but I don't want that to outweigh other factors of the game.

Don't you think it's a bit of a jump to go from "I didn't like need for speed because it lacked quality" ---> "IT MUST BE THE ENGINE!" -----> "DAI MIGHT SUCK NOW TOO BECAUSE THEY'RE USING THE SAME ENGINE!"

Ignoring the fact that I don't think you could remove two genres further than a Need For Speed game and Dragon Age the devs have never given me the impression that they'd put looks before content.

[Fozee]

I wouldn't call NFS:MW a good implementation of Frostbite. I can't really put my finger on what they did wrong, because the PC port was somehow really bad, even though it's an engine that is generally much better on PC. I don't think Frostbite was designed for fast movement through the levels for sustained periods of time, unless you're in the air and not actually loading many tiny details.

I think frostbite is a great candidate for DA3.

[Doctoglethorpe]

ReconTeam wrote...

All I want to say is, please no lens flare. Why do all games need so much lens flare now?

Lol, the level of lense flare and "camera dust" in BF3 is so bad it actually distracts me an ubsurd amount.  Idk what they were thinking.  "Oh man its like wearing a pair of dirty goggles, realism to the max!"   *shakes head*

Why DA3 would have that is beyond me though.  I think its a safe bet that won't be an issue here. 

[Plaintiff]

I doubt that Bioware will be looking to the Need for Speed frranchise for tips on making a role-playing game.

And being "short" doesn't mean a game isn't "quality". Plenty of awesome games are short.

[Realmzmaster]

The engine has very little to do with the length of the game. The length of the game depends on what type of animations, how detailed the graphics the developers want, amount of voice acting, length of story, number of quests and features. The engine's job is to enable all of that to happen. The Lycium and Eclipse engines had limitations in what they could do. The Frostbite2 engine does not have those limitations. The Frostbite2 engine may have limitations but I doubt Bioware will encounter them with DA3 given that the game will be made for the current consoles.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 17 novembre 2012 - 08:02 .