102 réponses à ce sujet

[Narcia_]

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
Oh, good. So there's still hope that the DA3  won't be fan-pandering it's companions.

I assure you that if we did include Cullen as a follower, it wouldn't be solely to "pander" to his fans. Not that I would overly mind pandering to them. They're not a large group, but there's hardly a nicer and more polite group one could choose to pander to.

That's so kind of you to say, good sir.  Many thanks!

[Orian Tabris]

motomotogirl wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

Now, when you say spring, I assume you are talking about March, April and May. I'm sorry, I always thought the internet was on both sides of the Hemisphere. Apparently only North America and Europe (possibly Asia and part of Africa too) have the internet.

Thank you for pointing that out so politely. It's that kind of thoughtful and considerate tone that helps others realize the error of their ways and vow to exert a conscious effort to be more inclusive!

The BW team themselve uses the words "Spring 2013" so that's why it's being used by so many forumers. The team is also predominantly Canadian (and I'm sure some are American...?).

Sorry, I just get very edgy when it comes to misconceptions and people who are blind to the outside world. Also, people who are blind to the reality around them, but I'm referring to something completely different to what you may be thinking (to do with my own country, unless you are from my country and are not of American decent, which would concern me moreso).

There are many people who believe 'alot' is a word (it's actually 'a lot'), when the closest actual word to that is 'allot', which means selecting and making choices, not the majority of something  of something; people call it "Awakenings" when it's "Origins: Awakening", not "Origin: Awakenings" or "Origins: Awakenings".

[David Gaider]

Orian Tabris wrote...
I have nothing against you pandering to your fans, but if that pandering supersedes logic and/or sense, then I would say it's bad thing (not to mention, should not be done)

Why? I'm rather curious what it is about the Cullen fans that is so different about any other interest group on these forums. They all consist of a small group of people that post regularly and advocate for what they'd like to see in the next game. Why should some group advocating for their favorite character be considered "small and unimportant" while another group advocating for a design feature or a change to the graphical style be considered more numerous and totally relevant?

And, let's say we did implement a design feature that some fans on these forums advocated for-- do you honestly think the only reason we would implement it is because those specific fans asked? Because they're so numerous as to impact sales? Don't be silly. It would be because we thought it was a good idea, and happened to agree with them (whether the idea originated from them or not). Characters are no different. We'd no more base a character's inclusion solely on some fans asking for him than exclude that character solely because other fans said they didn't want to see him at all.

So I'd suggest not letting your biases show quite so strongly.

For me, it does sound like you're alluding (or using reverse psychology, perhaps) to Cullen actually being a companion.

If you like. Anytime we don't state something definitively, someone's going to read into what we say. Quite frankly, I'm just getting a little tired of people trying to paint Cullen's fans as something they're not-- the only rude or crude behavior I've seen, in fact, has come from those people and not the fans. And more threads suggesting we shouldn't listen to them then threads by those fans asking for anything.

Modifié par David Gaider, 17 novembre 2012 - 04:38 .

[Orian Tabris]

LolaLei wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
Oh, good. So there's still hope that the DA3 won't be fan-pandering it's companions.

I assure you that if we did include Cullen as a follower, it wouldn't be solely to "pander" to his fans. Not that I would overly mind pandering to them. They're not a large group, but there's hardly a nicer and more polite group one could choose to pander to.

I have nothing against you pandering to your fans, but if that pandering supersedes logic and/or sense, then I would say it's bad thing (not to mention, should not be done)

Bold.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, or not.

Underline.

For me, it does sound like you're alluding (or using reverse psychology, perhaps) to Cullen actually being a companion.

I guess time will tell. If he isn't then it's ok, maybe he just wouldn't fit the story or something.

My guess is he won't, which is a major concern if he is a companion and LI, anyway.

[CuriousArtemis]

If pandering is REALLY all it takes, look out cause I'm about to start the "Alain for DA3 LI!!" thread  Seriously, love that boy... might consider baking little mage robe and mage staff cookies and sending them to BW offices... but painting sad faces on them so they know which character I'm referring to. 

[Battlebloodmage]

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
Oh, good. So there's still hope that the DA3  won't be fan-pandering it's companions.

I assure you that if we did include Cullen as a follower, it wouldn't be solely to "pander" to his fans. Not that I would overly mind pandering to them. They're not a large group, but there's hardly a nicer and more polite group one could choose to pander to.

Awww... <3

I think I'm gonna cry.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 17 novembre 2012 - 04:40 .

[syllogi]

Orian Tabris wrote...

My guess is he won't, which is a major concern if he is a companion and LI, anyway.

It's very likely that DA3 will be about the Mage Templar war.

Why would you presume that having Cullen, a templar, in the game (even as an NPC rather than companion) couldn't fit that setting?

I mean, somehow Sten and Shale managed to fit in the DA:O team.  I'm willing to bet that there's going to be at least one "exotic" companion who doesn't quite fit into the main plot.  But I'm also willing to bet that that character won't be a human male templar.

[LolaLei]

Orian Tabris wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
Oh, good. So there's still hope that the DA3 won't be fan-pandering it's companions.

I assure you that if we did include Cullen as a follower, it wouldn't be solely to "pander" to his fans. Not that I would overly mind pandering to them. They're not a large group, but there's hardly a nicer and more polite group one could choose to pander to.

I have nothing against you pandering to your fans, but if that pandering supersedes logic and/or sense, then I would say it's bad thing (not to mention, should not be done)

Bold.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, or not.

Underline.

For me, it does sound like you're alluding (or using reverse psychology, perhaps) to Cullen actually being a companion.

I guess time will tell. If he isn't then it's ok, maybe he just wouldn't fit the story or something.

My guess is he won't, which is a major concern if he is a companion and LI, anyway.

That would depend on what the game is about. The DA team know what's best for the game, so if they feel Cullen would be right for DA3 (be it as a companion/LI or cameo/npc) then presumably he'd be in it. If not, then he won't be. 

I mean, if you dislike him that much then you could always just ignore him or kill him off (if that's an option).

[R2s Muse]

Orian Tabris wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
Oh, good. So there's still hope that the DA3 won't be fan-pandering it's companions.

I assure you that if we did include Cullen as a follower, it wouldn't be solely to "pander" to his fans. Not that I would overly mind pandering to them. They're not a large group, but there's hardly a nicer and more polite group one could choose to pander to.

I have nothing against you pandering to your fans, but if that pandering supersedes logic and/or sense, then I would say it's bad thing (not to mention, should not be done)

Bold.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, or not.

Underline.

For me, it does sound like you're alluding (or using reverse psychology, perhaps) to Cullen actually being a companion.

I guess time will tell. If he isn't then it's ok, maybe he just wouldn't fit the story or something.

My guess is he won't, which is a major concern if he is a companion and LI, anyway.

Have faith in the writers pit.  Myself, now I would expect that the writers would include characters that actually have a role in their story. But, given that we have no details whatsover about the story so far, seems like a bit of a leap to start worrying whether Cullen fits it or not. Otherwise... it's gonna be a long couple of months.

[Orian Tabris]

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
I have nothing against you pandering to your fans, but if that pandering supersedes logic and/or sense, then I would say it's bad thing (not to mention, should not be done)

Why? I'm rather curious what it is about the Cullen fans that is so different about any other interest group on these forums. They all consist of a small group of people that post regularly and advocate for what they'd like to see in the next game. Why should some group advocating for their favorite character be considered "small and unimportant" while another group advocating for a design feature or a change to the graphical style be considered more numerous and totally relevant?

And, let's say we did implement a design feature that some fans on these forums advocated for-- do you honestly think the only reason we would implement it is because those specific fans asked? Don't be silly. It would be because we thought it was a good idea, and happened to agree with them (whether the idea originated from them or not). Characters are no different. We'd no more base a character's inclusion on some fans asking for him than exclude that character because other fans said they didn't want to see him at all.

So I'd suggest not letting your biases show quite so strongly.

For me, it does sound like you're alluding (or using reverse psychology, perhaps) to Cullen actually being a companion.

If you like. Anytime we don't state something definitively, someone's going to read into what we say. Quite frankly, I'm just getting a little tired of people trying to paint Cullen's fans as something they're not-- the only rude or crude behavior I've seen, in fact, has come from those people and not the fans. And more threads suggesting we shouldn't listen to them then threads by those fans asking for anything.

So I'd suggest knocking it off.

Unless I'm misreading what you're saying, you are getting the opposite idea from what I mean. The exact opposite. I have nothing against these people, I just think that the inclusion of Cullen would be a bad (or flawed?) idea. I'm scared that Cullen has such a big fanbase, that their idea will have a strong impact on you, and you decide to do it without thinking about why it would be a good idea (good or not). I'm not saying I'm right about Cullen as a companion, I'm just expressing my opinions, and I would hope that people agree with me, but not only that, that they also realise that it is, my opinion.

Cullen would feel, for me, a little out of place. What exactly are the chances that we'd see him in multiple games, when these games are set in various places? It's not like Thedas is small or has a small population.

As for design features, like I said, I'm laid-back. That would not bother me in the slightest. I'd accept it, and probably even like/love it.

Bold.

Forgive me, I might be misreading again (if I ever were), but that sounds as if you'll only listen to ideas, not to any people specifically. However, the opposite seems to be the case. I don't want to believe it, but I do believe that your choices are affected by others, not your own selves. I really don't see the idea of multiplayer as anything more than a way to bring in people, rather than something you guys believe to be a good idea.

Sorry, if I'm being very controversial, but I kinda feel like the jealous girlfriend who's worried about what her boyfriend is doing. The boyfriend being you, BioWare. You don't say much, and I understand, afterall sometimes things need to be kept under wraps, but I'm worried you're doing the wrong thing, due to lack of info.

Long post, sorry. As for reading into things, my concerns plus lack of tone due to a text based medium, equates to uncertainty on my part.

I worry too much. I blame my mother for that.

[Orian Tabris]

syllogi wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

My guess is he won't, which is a major concern if he is a companion and LI, anyway.

It's very likely that DA3 will be about the Mage Templar war.

Why would you presume that having Cullen, a templar, in the game (even as an NPC rather than companion) couldn't fit that setting?

I mean, somehow Sten and Shale managed to fit in the DA:O team.  I'm willing to bet that there's going to be at least one "exotic" companion who doesn't quite fit into the main plot.  But I'm also willing to bet that that character won't be a human male templar.

Yes, Cullen has cause to contribute, but why does it have to be him? It's not like he's the only templar with a personality. Their are supposed to be like millions, if not, billions of people populating Thedas.

[Mr.House]

-Cullen is a Templar who has seen the bad side of both mages(Ferelden tower incident) and templars(Meredith)
-Cullen was there at the Ferelden tower incident
-Cullen was there at the Kirkwall incident
-He was the one who took away Merediths rank
-He helped Hawke kill Meredith
-He not only was from the same tower Anders came from, but also knew Anders(not friendly of course)
-He either let Hawke leave Kirkwall or supported her/his bid to become Viscount/viscountness

People need to get over themself. Cullen and Cass have the biggest chance of being party members, if you don't like him, don't use him and ignore him, simple as that. However don't try to say he does not fit when he fits this all Templar/Mage conflict the most. Can we please stop with these types of threads?

Modifié par Mr.House, 17 novembre 2012 - 05:07 .

[Orian Tabris]

LolaLei wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
Oh, good. So there's still hope that the DA3 won't be fan-pandering it's companions.

I assure you that if we did include Cullen as a follower, it wouldn't be solely to "pander" to his fans. Not that I would overly mind pandering to them. They're not a large group, but there's hardly a nicer and more polite group one could choose to pander to.

I have nothing against you pandering to your fans, but if that pandering supersedes logic and/or sense, then I would say it's bad thing (not to mention, should not be done)

Bold.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, or not.

Underline.

For me, it does sound like you're alluding (or using reverse psychology, perhaps) to Cullen actually being a companion.

I guess time will tell. If he isn't then it's ok, maybe he just wouldn't fit the story or something.

My guess is he won't, which is a major concern if he is a companion and LI, anyway.

That would depend on what the game is about. The DA team know what's best for the game, so if they feel Cullen would be right for DA3 (be it as a companion/LI or cameo/npc) then presumably he'd be in it. If not, then he won't be. 

I mean, if you dislike him that much then you could always just ignore him or kill him off (if that's an option).

Lola, read the original post (again?). I actually do like Cullen. Much like Cullen fan girls, it's partly due to his endearing insecurity if a female Warden tries to "get with him" in the origin.

Also, I don't kill companions off, much. I think the only possible companion I killed in the entire DA series is Anders, and only in my aggressive Hawke playthrough, and the one where I romanced him, but sided with the Templars during the Last Straw.

[Joe25]

just wait all good things come in time

[LolaLei]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Unless I'm misreading what you're saying, you are getting the opposite idea from what I mean. The exact opposite. I have nothing against these people, I just think that the inclusion of Cullen would be a bad (or flawed?) idea. I'm scared that Cullen has such a big fanbase, that their idea will have a strong impact on you, and you decide to do it without thinking about why it would be a good idea (good or not). I'm not saying I'm right about Cullen as a companion, I'm just expressing my opinions, and I would hope that people agree with me, but not only that, that they also realise that it is, my opinion.

Why would he let us influence the way Cullen is written? I mean, ok we've come up with a lot of theories, fanfic, head canons and stuff, but that's all it is. None of it is fact, nor do we believe it to be. (Of course, I can't speak for the Cullen fans that I've never met/spoken to outside of here lol). We just use it as a way to generate conversation about a minor character. Call it boredom, if you want.

[berelinde]

OP, please indulge me. I'm curious about why, if you like Cullen, you object so strongly to the idea of his inclusion in the party roster. Is there another character you like better? Do you simply want a party composed solely of characters we have never met before?

If your objection is based on the potential for bickering between templars and mages, your anxiety might be misplaced. Cullen has been through a lot in the last 10 years and his perspective may very well have undergone some changes. I would not expect him to become an advocate for mage independence, but a shift toward the middle would not surprise me in the slightest. That, and sociopolitical differences are not the only fuel for tension. We might very well find ourselves with a party completely free of religions disputes but torn apart by economic or ethnic conflicts. Party banter, a beloved staple of BioWare games, revolves around personality clashes, big and small. If it wasn't about mages and templars, it would be something else.

You've said that this thread is not about Cullen but because of Cullen. I'm curious about your choice of phrasing. Has Cullen reminded you of a particular dynamic you wish to avoid? It's easy to get caught up in the details ad lose sight of the bigger picture. If that's the case, taking a step back and explaining your stance while leaving Cullen out of it might give the developers clearer insight into your concern.

[David Gaider]

Orian Tabris wrote...
Unless I'm misreading what you're saying, you are getting the opposite idea from what I mean. The exact opposite. I have nothing against these people, I just think that the inclusion of Cullen would be a bad (or flawed?) idea. I'm scared that Cullen has such a big fanbase, that their idea will have a strong impact on you, and you decide to do it without thinking about why it would be a good idea (good or not).

Ah. I can't say that this paints a great picture of what you think of our sensibilities-- or whether we, indeed, possess any of our own-- but fair enough. You're possibly one of the few to suggest we listen too much to ideas expressed on these forums, however, as opposed to not enough.

[Orian Tabris]

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
Unless I'm misreading what you're saying, you are getting the opposite idea from what I mean. The exact opposite. I have nothing against these people, I just think that the inclusion of Cullen would be a bad (or flawed?) idea. I'm scared that Cullen has such a big fanbase, that their idea will have a strong impact on you, and you decide to do it without thinking about why it would be a good idea (good or not).

Ah. I can't say that this paints a great picture of what you think of our sensibilities-- or whether we, indeed, possess any of our own-- but fair enough. You're possibly one of the few to suggest we listen too much to ideas expressed on these forums, however, as opposed to not enough.

Eh. Kinda both, to be honest.

[berelinde]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Cullen would feel, for me, a little out of place. What exactly are the chances that we'd see him in multiple games, when these games are set in various places? It's not like Thedas is small or has a small population.

Ah, if that's your concern, there is a very good reason for his presence in Orlais. He is the most senior surviving templar of the Kirkwall incident. I am absolutely certain that the Divine would want to question him about the incident. Moving the Grand Cathedral staff to a foreign nation is out of the question, so it would make more sense for Cullen to be brought to Orlais. Of any returning character that could possibly be in Val Royeaux, Cullen might just have the best excuse for being there. It isn't a small world. It's cause and effect.

[Orian Tabris]

joe2353 wrote...

just wait all good things come in time

I hope your right. But Cullen is one of my few concerns, but if that concern comes to fruition, then, well, I will see that concern a lot in DA3.

[Joe25]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Well, the leak is not really in question at this point so a female elf called Sera, a tal-Voshoth called Iron Bull, Cullen, Cassandra, a Tevinter Magister called Dorian and Cole from Asunder are all possible companions. The leak was from a marketing feedback survey so those characters are probably solid, but they could very well be no more than possibilities. It really depends on how far along into production they were when then they commissioned those surveys.

I just that leak over and the only known characters on it were Cassandra and Cullen. I didn't see cole or a tal-Voshoth on that poll. I did see a a wide number of mage types, a bard, a warden, and an elf that look a little like Katriel, but she's died over 60 year ago.

Modifié par joe2353, 17 novembre 2012 - 05:23 .

[LolaLei]

It's an odd thing to be concerned about, he's just pixels.

[Orian Tabris]

berelinde wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

Cullen would feel, for me, a little out of place. What exactly are the chances that we'd see him in multiple games, when these games are set in various places? It's not like Thedas is small or has a small population.

Ah, if that's your concern, there is a very good reason for his presence in Orlais. He is the most senior surviving templar of the Kirkwall incident. I am absolutely certain that the Divine would want to question him about the incident. Moving the Grand Cathedral staff to a foreign nation is out of the question, so it would make more sense for Cullen to be brought to Orlais. Of any returning character that could possibly be in Val Royeaux, Cullen might just have the best excuse for being there. It isn't a small world. It's cause and effect.

Well, that is one possible way of adding him as a companion. I clearly don't come across as someone who is laid back, but I am, trust me. If Cullen is a companion, a well written, logical reason for being a one, would indeed allow me to play DA3 without problems. Unless they mess it up, which should not be likely. For me, not knowing enough information really bothers me, hence my making this thread.

[FaWa]

Fun fact: Alistair is 100x hotter than Cullen will ever be. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[Orian Tabris]

LolaLei wrote...

It's an odd thing to be concerned about, he's just pixels.

Correction, pixels and writing.