102 réponses à ce sujet

[esper]

Ignoring Cullen. What I really don't want to see is any characther like Cole who has had major characther development in the books/comics as a companion. If any of these characthers are including in such a heavy role as a companion I would feel disturbed knowing that a significant amount of characther development in another media than the games. I would also feel like I would get less out of the characthers than we are suppossed to.

[ElitePinecone]

Orian Tabris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
Unless I'm misreading what you're saying, you are getting the opposite idea from what I mean. The exact opposite. I have nothing against these people, I just think that the inclusion of Cullen would be a bad (or flawed?) idea. I'm scared that Cullen has such a big fanbase, that their idea will have a strong impact on you, and you decide to do it without thinking about why it would be a good idea (good or not).

Ah. I can't say that this paints a great picture of what you think of our sensibilities-- or whether we, indeed, possess any of our own-- but fair enough. You're possibly one of the few to suggest we listen too much to ideas expressed on these forums, however, as opposed to not enough.

Eh. Kinda both, to be honest.

Being afraid of the developers' pandering to fans while simultaneously trying to influence them in a certain direction is a strange, conflicted position to take. 

I mean, isn't being swayed by the people who *don't* want a particular feature just as bad as being swayed by those who do? If you're objecting to one but not the other, rather than letting the devs decide for themselves, that's more than a little blatantly unreasonable. 

I really don't care about Cullen either way, but this constant soul-searching over whether the entire Bioware staff is just sitting with baited breath waiting on fan instructions is getting ridiculous. They're grown-ups, they've had plans in place for months if not years, and the idea that they'd be influenced *only* by posts on a forum thread is a bit absurd. 

[Fredward]

ElitePinecone wrote...
I really don't care about Cullen either way, but this constant soul-searching over whether the entire Bioware staff is just sitting with baited breath waiting on fan instructions is getting ridiculous. They're grown-ups, they've had plans in place for months if not years, and the idea that they'd be influenced *only* by posts on a forum thread is a bit absurd. 

More than a bit considering the fact that less than what? A hundred? 250? People post here regularly and even less fall into the various "I want/need/require/demand" groups.

Anywhoozle when is spring in North America?

[Orian Tabris]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Anywhoozle when is spring in North America?

North America is in the Northern Hemisphere, so spring goes from March to May. As opposed to in the Southern Hemisphere, where spring is from September to November.

I can't tell if you're joking, or if you actually don't know, but ^ there's ^ the to that question.

[cindercatz]

Spring is March, April, May.
edit: 'd

My only concern with Cullen is whether he'll be at all consistent. Cullen played chase with female mages, fine. Then in most playthroughs he lobbies the Warden to annul the mages in the tower. This while he knows there's combat going on between the mages. Then afterwards he has the potential to either be a very oppressive head Templar at the tower or to go on a serial mage killing spree on his way north.

So in my mind, he's pretty much a weak willed evil monster, with personal insecurities, a good bedside manner, and a winning smile. People make a lot of excuses for him, but no excuse justifies the behaviour of a character like that. DA3 has to acknowledge what he is if it's going to follow this.

Then in DA2 he's treated like the Voice of Reason and even helps the player overthrow Meredith. ?? She was no worse than he would've been, so what gives?

So fine, if he's in DA3, or even if he's a companion, great, but his dark side has got to be front and center in the story, at least just under the surface, or else he's not the same character. I expect him to be in the game one way or another, and it definitely makes sense he should be there. If he's the cookies and sunshine version, then he's fan candy, and that's what I'm afraid of. He should be a dark, two faces kind of guy if he's going to be consistent and interesting. I'm afraid the attitude is going to be that they'll just throw out the epilogues and ignore the pleas for annulment, and all the tranquilizings, and he'll basically show up as another boy toy.

He does have the potential to be a very interesting character, and we need more interesting male characters. The female characters have consistently been stronger than the males on the whole. It's just that DA2 makes me worry that's not going to happen.

Modifié par cindercatz, 17 novembre 2012 - 10:13 .

[Plaintiff]

The Mage-Templar conflict is easily the most interesting aspect of the Dragon Age universe. It's a major political issue, one that will likely never see definitve resolution.

Any mage or templar in the party has a stake in the issue, and they're going to talk about it. It doesn't matter if it's Cullen or Anders or anyone else.

If people aren't interested in the issue, they should probably find a fantasy game series where it doesn't exist.

[Plaintiff]

esper wrote...

Ignoring Cullen. What I really don't want to see is any characther like Cole who has had major characther development in the books/comics as a companion. If any of these characthers are including in such a heavy role as a companion I would feel disturbed knowing that a significant amount of characther development in another media than the games. I would also feel like I would get less out of the characthers than we are suppossed to.

But every character had a life and underwent development before the player met them.

[cindercatz]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Mage-Templar conflict is easily the most interesting aspect of the Dragon Age universe. It's a major political issue, one that will likely never see definitve resolution.

Any mage or templar in the party has a stake in the issue, and they're going to talk about it. It doesn't matter if it's Cullen or Anders or anyone else.

If people aren't interested in the issue, they should probably find a fantasy game series where it doesn't exist.

Why so? I disagree completely about the Mage/Templar issue being the most interesting. It's a single facet, no more interesting than the elves, the DA dwarves, the confluence of religions, the fade, the political house of cards (which is the most interesting for my money, especially factoring in the Dalish and the dwarves as nations), the Qun, the darkspawn, the Old Gods, the social inequality, etc. etc. The Mage/Templar issue was interesting enough, but it's already been beat over the head, and I, like you, don't see it resolving in any way that really makes Thedas more interesting. I expect regardless of the outcome of DA3, there will still be some control system over mages outside of Tevinter. It's what makes Tevinter unique, after all.

What's thematically interesting to me about DA3 is what the domino effect will be, and the civil war aspect, a lot more than a mage/templar stand-off, which is certainly a big part of it as well.

So why should I go find another game when there's so much I enjoy about the setting, the characters, etc.? Not that your comment was aimed at me, but rhetorically speaking.

[Plaintiff]

cindercatz wrote...
Why so? I disagree completely about the Mage/Templar issue being the most interesting. It's a single facet, no more interesting than the elves, the DA dwarves, the confluence of religions, the fade, the political house of cards (which is the most interesting for my money, especially factoring in the Dalish and the dwarves as nations), the Qun, the darkspawn, the Old Gods, the social inequality, etc. etc. The Mage/Templar issue was interesting enough, but it's already been beat over the head, and I, like you, don't see it resolving in any way that really makes Thedas more interesting. I expect regardless of the outcome of DA3, there will still be some control system over mages outside of Tevinter. It's what makes Tevinter unique, after all.

The mage/templar  issue is the only one worth debating, at least so far. It's the only debate where both sides have valid points (though the templars only just barely). There's no good reason to oppress elves, or dwarves. The major religions are clearly flawed and oppressive.

What's thematically interesting to me about DA3 is what the domino effect will be, and the civil war aspect, a lot more than a mage/templar stand-off, which is certainly a big part of it as well.

Since we know nothing of the civil war except a few throwaway lines, there's nothing really to say about it.

So why should I go find another game when there's so much I enjoy about the setting, the characters, etc.? Not that your comment was aimed at me, but rhetorically speaking.

Well, by the same token, why should Bioware change a major aspect of their world and narrative just because people don't like hearing about it? My suggestion is no less reasonable.

[esper]

Plaintiff wrote...

esper wrote...

Ignoring Cullen. What I really don't want to see is any characther like Cole who has had major characther development in the books/comics as a companion. If any of these characthers are including in such a heavy role as a companion I would feel disturbed knowing that a significant amount of characther development in another media than the games. I would also feel like I would get less out of the characthers than we are suppossed to.

But every character had a life and underwent development before the player met them.

Ay, but if it  the backgrouindhistory we will be informed off it by the game when it is important. There are no such gurentee for subjects we have been informed off one. If not we get a situation where some players knows more about the companions than other players and we get one off two situations:

One: the characther has to inform the player of what happened in, say, Asunder, which is boring repetition for the players who knows and read the book. In this case there are also fitting the books canon to the games canon. Gaider have said that the books/comics are what if scenario's. Say that Shale and Wynne died in da:o, this would obviously alter Asunders events. However, some of the main events such the voting would properly happen no matter what happened in da:o and can thus stand as canon no matter what. But now we have another characther who also have to check the individual fate of Rhys, Cole, Lambert, the female templar whose name I can't remember, as well as all the events that might depent on Wynne and Shale's participation. It suddenly got a lot more and unnecessary complicated.

Two: The characther does not inform, which means that the way the players percieve the characther are wildly different. Just look at the difference in how players who played and players who don't played Awakening approached Anders who was a an expansion characther. Also The Architecht. Players who read the calling (I think it was the calling) had a tendency to argue for killing the Architecht based on what he did as a villain in that book. Even if such meta-knowlegde shouldn't afftect our roleplaying it does. And the difference between what we knows about the characthers makes the way we approach the characthers for the first time wildly different. And in such an important role as a companion it just irks me that the player base does not have the same acces to information.

The end result is that such a characther would not bring the same enjoyment to the player base that have read or not read the book (wherever it goes in a good or bad direction depents on how the characther was first described), which irks me to no end. Thus I want to maximum see these characthers as reletively minor cameos and nothing so significant as companions.

Modifié par esper, 17 novembre 2012 - 01:34 .

[Rixatrix]

David Gaider wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...
I have nothing against you pandering to your fans, but if that pandering supersedes logic and/or sense, then I would say it's bad thing (not to mention, should not be done)

Why? I'm rather curious what it is about the Cullen fans that is so different about any other interest group on these forums. They all consist of a small group of people that post regularly and advocate for what they'd like to see in the next game. Why should some group advocating for their favorite character be considered "small and unimportant" while another group advocating for a design feature or a change to the graphical style be considered more numerous and totally relevant?

And, let's say we did implement a design feature that some fans on these forums advocated for-- do you honestly think the only reason we would implement it is because those specific fans asked? Because they're so numerous as to impact sales? Don't be silly. It would be because we thought it was a good idea, and happened to agree with them (whether the idea originated from them or not). Characters are no different. We'd no more base a character's inclusion solely on some fans asking for him than exclude that character solely because other fans said they didn't want to see him at all.

So I'd suggest not letting your biases show quite so strongly.

For me, it does sound like you're alluding (or using reverse psychology, perhaps) to Cullen actually being a companion.

If you like. Anytime we don't state something definitively, someone's going to read into what we say. Quite frankly, I'm just getting a little tired of people trying to paint Cullen's fans as something they're not-- the only rude or crude behavior I've seen, in fact, has come from those people and not the fans. And more threads suggesting we shouldn't listen to them then threads by those fans asking for anything.

I have so much respect for this post.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Around four companions have already been leaked.

[esper]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Around four companions have already been leaked.

We have no idea if this leak it true or not. Since the survey as far I could understand boiled down to, how much would you like a companion like x. It might have been speculation about who should be the dlc companion (since that is a companion they have to sell beside the game).

[DarkKnightHolmes]

esper wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Around four companions have already been leaked.

We have no idea if this leak it true or not. Since the survey as far I could understand boiled down to, how much would you like a companion like x. It might have been speculation about who should be the dlc companion (since that is a companion they have to sell beside the game).

All Bioware leaks turn out to be true or very close to the truth. I'm willing to bet this one is right too.

[Kidd]

David Gaider wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...
The leak was from a marketing feedback survey so those characters are probably solid, but they could very well be no more than possibilities.

I'm well aware that survey is a source of speculation, but I'd caution anyone from assuming those characters are more than possibilities-- as you yourself point out-- or that they're even intended to be party followers. Doing so is setting yourself up for disappointment, I guarantee it.

What will I have to sacrifice at the altar to up the possibilities of you pandering to me? 

[LilyasAvalon]

Wait, what? Cullen won't be a companion?

Why does all the cool stuff get leaked when I'm busy? :<

[sunnydxmen]

cullen should be announce first he better be a companion.

[Fredward]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Wait, what? Cullen won't be a companion?

Why does all the cool stuff get leaked when I'm busy? :<

Nobody said that. xp

Also this forum needs a multiquote function.

[Atakuma]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

esper wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Around four companions have already been leaked.

We have no idea if this leak it true or not. Since the survey as far I could understand boiled down to, how much would you like a companion like x. It might have been speculation about who should be the dlc companion (since that is a companion they have to sell beside the game).

All Bioware leaks turn out to be true or very close to the truth. I'm willing to bet this one is right too.

He's not denying it's validity , he's just saying that it may not be what you think it is.

[Isaidlunch]

sunnydxmen wrote...

cullen should be announce first he better be a companion.

Cullen and Cassandra will be the first ones to be announced, calling it now.

[LinksOcarina]

Can someone explain to me why the books/comics are considered canon? I thought it was stated that they were their own separate thing.

[CuriousArtemis]

They are not canon.

[Bfler]

I can see it. They will include Cullen's song and the girls will start to cry hysterical and pass out in front of their PC.

[LolaLei]

Bfler wrote...

I can see it. They will include Cullen's song and the girls will start to cry hysterical and pass out in front of their PC.

Well if it's anything like Greg Ellis' Johnson Rap at the end of Shadows of the Damned, then too right I'd pass out, that sh!t was effin' hilarious! 

Modifié par LolaLei, 17 novembre 2012 - 09:03 .

[Maria Caliban]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Can someone explain to me why the books/comics are considered canon? I thought it was stated that they were their own separate thing.

Everything that doesn't depend on the PC's actions are canon. That's the novels and Cassandra's cartoon so far. Everything that depends on the PC acting a certain way isn't canon. So comics where Alistar is the king isn't.

motomotogirl wrote...

They are not canon.

You're suggesting that The Stolen Throne isn't canon? Even though its events are referenced in the first game? 

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 17 novembre 2012 - 09:23 .