85 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

So as a lot of us know, in stories like this there comes a time where the protagonists hit their lowest point. We saw it in ME1 for example when Shepard and his crew got grounded after the Virmire mission. In ME3 what we have is Kai Leng basically ninjas vendetta from Shepard and takes off afterwards. Now i just recently thought of this and i would've been a lot happier if it had turned out this way but here goes.

Basically Shepard and his crew get ambushed by Kai Leng and Cerberus troopers. The team gets captured while Kai Leng beats the living hell out of Shepard. He proceeds to steal Vendetta and then per TIMs orders, the Normandy and it's crew get taken in and brought to Cronos Station. The next section of the game has Shepard wake up in an interrogation room, where a couple Cerberus officers including Kai Leng proceed to try to get information about the Crucible and whatnot out of Shepard. We get a bunch of dialogue sections in which depending on how high your paragon/renegade score is, you can resist or give in to the torture. This section also includes a few bits where you exchange dialogue with Kai Leng, talking about him in the N7 and his history with Anderson. You learn a bit more about his personality and whatnot, so he's not so much of a two dimensional character anymore. If you played Metal Gear Solid, you might have a better understanding on how such a scene could play out.

Kai Leng continues to torture Shepard, but then we cut to EDI who basically manages to escape from her captors. We then have a section where we take control of EDI as she stealths around Chronos Station. She locates a control room where she sends a signal out to the Alliance that tells them their location and to being their fleet. We then use EDI to find Shepard and the rest of the crew to free them. By the time the gang is reunited and their gear is located, the 5th fleet (doesn't have to be the 5th) arrives and begins assaulting Chronos Station. Shepard orders most of his team to get back to the Normandy and gain control of it again, while he takes two squadmates to find TIM and take back Vendetta. By this point the Assault on Chronos Station section begins and it basically plays out the same way it did in ME3.

I mean i literally just thought of this, so i didn't flesh it out as well as i could've if i thought about it more. But to me this would've been a hell of a lot more interesting. If i think about it more, i'd probably try to think of a way on how Miranda would be involved. But to me it would've been cool to see the Normandy crew in such a vulnerable and beaten down state, only to rise up again and fight back.

EDIT: I'm sure a lot of you will hate this idea. I'm only saying that I personally would've enjoyed this a lot more. I'm not saying it would've in fact had been better.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 17 novembre 2012 - 06:58 .

[David7204]

Torture scenes can be tough, for several reasons. How, specifically, is Shepard tortured?

[Mathias]

David7204 wrote...

Torture scenes can be tough, for several reasons. How, specifically, is Shepard tortured?

I was actually going to come back because i thought of something else to add. Like i said i haven't thought about this for too long, so i'm only gonna be able to half answer your question. We'll assume that there is some physical torture involved, but what i just thought of is that at one point, your LI or character you have the highest relationship with is brought in. For every question Kai Leng asks that you don't answer, he tortures your LI, and each time he does it, the torture intensifies.

Now i was thinking that depending on how high your relationship points with the character is, there's a possiblity your LI could end up dying in this scene from the pain. If your relationship points is really high with them however, then they'll have a stronger will to live.

But to me this would've been an effective player punch, and would give us a solid and emotional reason to wanna kick Kai Leng's ***.

[David7204]

Hoo boy, that's opening a can of worms right there...

[Mathias]

Well if you played Kotor, something similar to this does happen.

[David7204]

I just watched it on youtube. Well, they would certainly have to step things up to make such a thing work. The characters were pretty nonchalant about just getting tortured. And of course, you can't have someone like Garrus asking for mercy. More likely he'd spit in the guy's face.

[Binary_Helix 1]

I like it. It would be a nostalgic wink to KoToR fans. The entire Leviathan sequence (KoToR) was the highlight of the game.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 17 novembre 2012 - 08:39 .

[Restrider]

Would've been nice. And you the escape mission could've been handled like the Suicide Mission, where you have to assign squadmates to specific tasks.

[Village_Idiot]

This could be very, very effective if done correctly. The use of squadmates as emotional blackmail is something that wasn't utilised nearly enough, considering how attached many fans are to them.

[Jadebaby]

Yes. Although anything would be better than Thessia, this is taking it to a whole new level!

[David7204]

As long as the squadmates don't come off as helpless or incompetent...which is not easy if that character is continually associated with 'emotional blackmail.'

Why exactly is Thessia consider so bad?

Modifié par David7204, 17 novembre 2012 - 11:42 .

[Jadebaby]

Because of Kai Lame and his stupid plot armour... It's far to short and compared with Rannoch and Tuchanka it's a serious anti-climax. Also, did I mention Kai Lame's plot armour?

[David7204]

First of all, that is not plot armor. Plain and simple.

Secondly, a mission being a short is a very foolish reason to dislike it. In fact, if you dislike it, you should be glad is the mission is short, since the player obviously spends less time on it.

[Dr_Extrem]

thessia was not that bad ... it had a big emotional impact on shepard - and hid/her friends gave him/her the pep talk needed to get back on track.

the kai leng bossfight was totally lame though ... weak .. very weak .. especially if you compare it to lotsb.

[Jadebaby]

So not being able to hurt him when he's in his bubble then not being able to beat him when you "win" the battle? Then him not being affected in any way by the gunship blowing the crap out of everything else?

[Sable Rhapsody]

David7204 wrote...
First of all, that is not plot armor. Plain and simple.

...how is silly space ninja and his pet gunship surviving against Shep and co. NOT plot armor?  Garrus took down a gunship with a few sniper shots on Omega back in ME2.  You routinely destroy multiple big, scary armored units (from Harvesters to Atlases) with nothing more than small arms fire in ME3.  What, the headlight from the gunship is scary or something?  Everyone forgot their sunglasses?

[David7204]

First of all, I'd like to remind you that the exact same thing happened with Saren in ME 1...and yet I don't see anyone complaining about how bad Virmire was or how much they hate Saren. Or using petty and childish insults.

Secondly, yes, not being able to kill Kai Leng is gameplay and story segregation (which exists in all games to some extent.) That isn't plot armor.

Modifié par David7204, 17 novembre 2012 - 12:07 .

[Argolas]

The only problem I had with Thessia was the way Kai Leng beat me. He didn't stand any chance while I was in gameplay, but bosses healing themselves again and again are on my sh*t list since I played Final Fantasy for the first time. And then that overpowered gunship. Why? I destroyed gunships before, it never was that much truble.

It's okay to lose a battle once, but then I wanted to be beaten by an really powerful enemy so I would see even in the gameplay that he is better, not by a cowerd hiding hitself behind some kind of gunship that we have beaten before and is now suddenly invincible. And that enemy should have been a character and not Kai Lame.

So basically, most of your story is irrelevant to me unless the way we get "ambushed" is believable and good. The best part is your chance for an attempt to make a character out of Leng. If they would have done that successfully and fixed the stupid dialogue from both sides when Shepard and Leng meet, we'd actually have something like an antagonist. Then, we should still see him earlier on though, maybe we could see him on earth killing a few reaper troops and then escaping in order to report the invasion to TIM.

Modifié par Argolas, 17 novembre 2012 - 12:08 .

[David7204]

If I recall, literally all Shepard said was "It's over buddy, three-on-one," or something like that. Does that quality as 'stupid dialogue' on Shepard's part now?

[Jadebaby]

David7204 wrote...

First of all, I'd like to remind you that the exact same thing happened with Saren in ME 1...and yet I don't see anyone complaining about how bad Virmire was or how much they hate Saren. Or using petty and childish insults.

Secondly, yes, not being able to kill Kai Leng is gameplay and story segregation (which exists in all games to some extent.) That isn't plot armor.

I wasn't on the forums in ME1. Why is it whenever someone can't explain their position they just refer to past instances to try and dismiss the claim?

[Dr_Extrem]

David7204 wrote...

If I recall, literally all Shepard said was "It's over buddy, three-on-one," or something like that. Does that quality as 'stupid dialogue' on Shepard's part now?

it does ...the whole fight was lame though.

[David7204]

What I'm dismissing is the BSN's behavior of whining about something in ME 3 and then praising other games with the exact same problem or often a far worse version of said problem.

[Jadebaby]

Now we've moved into generalizing, I think I'm done here.

[Sable Rhapsody]

David7204 wrote...

First of all, I'd like to remind you that the exact same thing happened with Saren in ME 1...and yet I don't see anyone complaining about how bad Virmire was or how much they hate Saren. Or using petty and childish insults.

Secondly, yes, not being able to kill Kai Leng is gameplay and story segregation (which exists in all games to some extent.) That isn't plot armor.

I thought the Virmire fight was terrible too, but since ME1's gameplay was a bit patchy at best, it didn't stick out like a sore thumb quite as bad as ME3.

And just because gameplay and story segregation exists doesn't mean it's a good thing.  Journey is an example of a game where the gameplay IS the story--the mechanics drive the narrative and vice versa.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 17 novembre 2012 - 12:27 .