85 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr_Extrem]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

I would have preferred sad sex with Liara...but whatever tickles those nuts of yours....

Wouldn't angry be better? With sad sex, I can just see them quitting halfway through to cry.

sad snuggling would be ok for me.

[Zazzerka]

I'd be happy with sad snuggling. Something, anything, would be better than, "Nope, not your fault. Back to work, you."

[Mathias]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

Fifmut wrote...
Torturing your LI? That could've been the most emotional scene in the whole game. I can imagine them bringing in Liara if I don't answer the questions and punching her every time I refuse to answer..similiar to what happens in Bryson's lab in Leviathan.

Everyone would die.

Everyone.

I thought about it. It all depends on how high your relationship points are with your LI/Best Friend. If they're high enough, they will have a strong enough will to live through the torture. It'll get to a point where your LI is on the brink of death, and Kai Leng has them returned to their cell, so they can "Pick this up tomorrow, where we left off :)"

I can think of one example. If someone romances Kaiden but cheats on him on ME2, then it doesn't matter if you get back together with him in ME3 and be nice. Cheating on him took a big hit to his relationship points that can't really be recovered, so he'll end up succumbing to the pain and die. Now that's harsh and i admit that, but Bioware did say if you cheated on your ME1 romance, there would be consequences right? Well there ya go.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 17 novembre 2012 - 02:48 .

[Dr_Extrem]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

I'd be happy with sad snuggling. Something, anything, would be better than, "Nope, not your fault. Back to work, you."

especially, since shep knows exactly how it feels to see your homeworld burn. i would have hold her, untill my limbs fall asleep.

[The Spamming Troll]

David7204 wrote...

First of all, I'd like to remind you that the exact same thing happened with Saren in ME 1...and yet I don't see anyone complaining about how bad Virmire was or how much they hate Saren. Or using petty and childish insults.

Secondly, yes, not being able to kill Kai Leng is gameplay and story segregation (which exists in all games to some extent.) That isn't plot armor.

becase saren was written well and hes well respected in game, and from the players. kai leng on the other hand was written by a 5th grader who occasiaonally reads comics, and nobody likes kai leng, not even TIM, probably.

kai leng was put into the game to die, saren wasnt. its not like saren had some ability thats makes them immune to fire just by crouching, and he never sent me a troll email.

lengs a joke.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 17 novembre 2012 - 02:55 .

[Argolas]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

David7204 wrote...

First of all, I'd like to remind you that the exact same thing happened with Saren in ME 1...and yet I don't see anyone complaining about how bad Virmire was or how much they hate Saren. Or using petty and childish insults.

Secondly, yes, not being able to kill Kai Leng is gameplay and story segregation (which exists in all games to some extent.) That isn't plot armor.

becase saren was written well and hes well respected in game, and from the players. kai leng on the other hand was written by a 5th grader who occasiaonally reads comics, and nobody likes kai leng, not even TIM, probably.

kai leng was put into the game to die, saren wasnt. its not like saren had some ability thats makes them immune to fire just by crouching, and he never sent me a troll email.

lengs a joke.

I agree, these two characters can hardly be compared. Saren was a charismatic antagonist who tried to save the galaxy his way, but he still worries about indoctrination, tries to find countermeasures and tells himself that they won't do it to him, ending up with doubts so Souvereign has to implant him in order to make sure he remains loyal. Without his implants, Saren might have joined Shepard in the final Citadel confrontation rather then comitting suicide if Shepard sucessfully convinces him.

Kai Leng... is arguably not a character at all, at least in the ME 3 game, I didn't read any comics, for the record, maybe there is more to him, but in the game he could have been replaced by a generic Cerberus phantom without having to change too much.

Modifié par Argolas, 17 novembre 2012 - 03:10 .

[KingZayd]

Argolas wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

David7204 wrote...

First of all, I'd like to remind you that the exact same thing happened with Saren in ME 1...and yet I don't see anyone complaining about how bad Virmire was or how much they hate Saren. Or using petty and childish insults.

Secondly, yes, not being able to kill Kai Leng is gameplay and story segregation (which exists in all games to some extent.) That isn't plot armor.

becase saren was written well and hes well respected in game, and from the players. kai leng on the other hand was written by a 5th grader who occasiaonally reads comics, and nobody likes kai leng, not even TIM, probably.

kai leng was put into the game to die, saren wasnt. its not like saren had some ability thats makes them immune to fire just by crouching, and he never sent me a troll email.

lengs a joke.

I agree, these two characters can hardly be compared. Saren was a charismatic antagonist who tried to save the galaxy his way, but he still worries about indoctrination, tries to find countermeasures and tells himself that they won't do it to him, ending up with doubts so Souvereign has to implant him in order to make sure he remains loyal. Without his implants, Saren might have joined Shepard in the final Citadel confrontation rather then comitting suicide if Shepard sucessfully convinces him.

Kai Leng... is arguably not a character at all, at least in the ME 3 game, I didn't read any comics, for the record, maybe there is more to him, but in the game he could have been replaced by a generic Cerberus phantom without having to change too much.

Although initially Saren isn't out to save the galaxy, he is motivated by revenge against humanity.
It is later on that he decides that for organics to serve is better than for them to be destroyed.

Modifié par KingZayd, 17 novembre 2012 - 04:53 .

[Lawrence0294]

That would've been pretty interesting, and really emotionaly greeping.
Implementing Miranda to Cronos would make it even better.

Modifié par kratos0294, 17 novembre 2012 - 05:09 .

[Argolas]

KingZayd wrote...

Argolas wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

David7204 wrote...

First of all, I'd like to remind you that the exact same thing happened with Saren in ME 1...and yet I don't see anyone complaining about how bad Virmire was or how much they hate Saren. Or using petty and childish insults.

Secondly, yes, not being able to kill Kai Leng is gameplay and story segregation (which exists in all games to some extent.) That isn't plot armor.

becase saren was written well and hes well respected in game, and from the players. kai leng on the other hand was written by a 5th grader who occasiaonally reads comics, and nobody likes kai leng, not even TIM, probably.

kai leng was put into the game to die, saren wasnt. its not like saren had some ability thats makes them immune to fire just by crouching, and he never sent me a troll email.

lengs a joke.

I agree, these two characters can hardly be compared. Saren was a charismatic antagonist who tried to save the galaxy his way, but he still worries about indoctrination, tries to find countermeasures and tells himself that they won't do it to him, ending up with doubts so Souvereign has to implant him in order to make sure he remains loyal. Without his implants, Saren might have joined Shepard in the final Citadel confrontation rather then comitting suicide if Shepard sucessfully convinces him.

Kai Leng... is arguably not a character at all, at least in the ME 3 game, I didn't read any comics, for the record, maybe there is more to him, but in the game he could have been replaced by a generic Cerberus phantom without having to change too much.

Although initially Saren isn't out to save the galaxy, he is motivated by revenge against humanity.
It is later on that he decides that for organics to serve is better than for them to be destroyed.

Yes, but that's part of the point: Saren has a personality, a motivation and goals, although he is manipulated. Kai Leng is simply a minion that obeys orders, nothing more. If this guy has a personaltiy, a motivation and a goal beyond the reaper doctrine and orders, I don't see them.

[dreman9999]

Shepard being capture is as likely as turtles growing wings and flying.

[Mathias]

dreman9999 wrote...

Shepard being capture is as likely as turtles growing wings and flying.

Ah Dreman. Always queuing into threads with your sparkling intellect.

[Hadeedak]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Shepard being capture is as likely as turtles growing wings and flying.

Ah Dreman. Always queuing into threads with your sparkling intellect.

How do you even keep a cyborg potential ginormous biotic, potential hack-master down?

I know I already spend enough times coaching Esperanza Shepard to vanguard charge all the things and just solve this problem right now, with her fists. (Damn you, Saren. What do you mean I can't vanguard charge in one I have a shotgun?)

I think it'd be an interesting twist, sure, and I was frankly expecting to see the crew get used against Shepard or have a chance to save her a la DA:O at some point.

I'm not sure it'd work as cleanly as you imagine, though. Poor Kai Leng. He got the short end of the 'not enough screentime' stick. It's almost like he was an ME2 character.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

dreman9999 wrote...

Shepard being capture is as likely as turtles growing wings and flying.

Umm, Arrival?

[The Spamming Troll]

Hadeedak wrote...
Poor Kai Leng. He got the short end of the 'not enough screentime' stick. It's almost like he was an ME2 character.

sadly, so true.

[Mathias]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Shepard being capture is as likely as turtles growing wings and flying.

Umm, Arrival?

[LoganofET]

Holy crap, that's two stupid things taken out for the price of one, bravo! The only thing is that from a gameplay stance you wouldn't be able to visit the ship in between the two missions and do things like change your loadout, although I think the story telling angle makes up for that. I'd actually go as far as to say why bring the fleets in at all, why not just have Shepard destroy it from the inside, but that's just something I personally didn't like about the game.

[Mathias]

LoganofET wrote...

Holy crap, that's two stupid things taken out for the price of one, bravo! The only thing is that from a gameplay stance you wouldn't be able to visit the ship in between the two missions and do things like change your loadout, although I think the story telling angle makes up for that. I'd actually go as far as to say why bring the fleets in at all, why not just have Shepard destroy it from the inside, but that's just something I personally didn't like about the game.

Mostly because Cerberus as a whole just need to be stopped and destroying the base and the bulk of it's fleet would've been the way to go. Also i imagine The Normandy wouldn't have been able to escape with all those Cerberus Ships in the area. By the time Shepard has his conversation with TIM and Vendetta, then has his fight with Kai Leng, the entire base would've been aware of their escape.

[Jadebaby]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Shepard being capture is as likely as turtles growing wings and flying.

Umm, Arrival?

[Han Shot First]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

So not being able to hurt him when he's in his bubble then not being able to beat him when you "win" the battle? Then him not being affected in any way by the gunship blowing the crap out of everything else?

I'm totally fine with not being able to outright defeat KaI Leng here because of story reasons. The protagonist shouldn't be able to just steamroll every opponent in every engagement, because in the end that just makes him less believable and gives the story less emotional impact.

Also, plenty of games do that.  As an example in the Witcher 2, Geralt (the player character) will always lose the first duel with Lotho. Arguably this also happened back in Mass Effect 1, where Saren briefly has Shepard on the ropes and then manages to escape Virmire. 

[MattH]

My problem with the Kai Leng fight scene at Thessia is that he's able to overpower three of the most powerful biotics in game (My Shepard is an Adept, you have to take Liara and I then usually go with Javik because of Prothean storyline to Thessia). I just wish they'd have put more thought into it. There should have been a 'call Jack' interrupt. She'd have kicked his ass.

[David7204]

It is not plot armor.

[Reorte]

Argolas wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It isn't plot armor in either case.

When a chacter is protected from death, serious wounds, and generally any sort of harm until dramatically appropriate, which is the case with both Saren and Kai Leng it's plot armor. Liara has it too.

Wait, so every character who can't die in the game has plot armor?

Pretty much. It's simply far more blatant with some.

[Jadebaby]

You misunderstand what I'm saying. Of course a lot of games do it. Heck Saren on Virmire in ME is a classic example.

But what Saren had that Kai Lame lacked was presence. Even when you faught him, he didn't come off that segway so you knew he could use it to escape straight away. And also when it went to the cutscene it showed him gain the upper hand when he grabbed Shepard ast the throat.

What did Kai Lame have? A gunship? A gunship that he wasn't even in so wh was the boss battle against? Kai Lame or his gunship? (quick, someone start a meme!) And even then, we'd beaten a gunship before, so no biggy. I didn't expect to steamroll Thessia, but there's steamrolling at one end, and what they did at the other. Somewhere in the middle would have been nice. Something a bit more believable.

Furthermore, In the Saren confrontation on Virmire, you were positioned as the underdog during the fight. From hiding behind the corner when he showed up, to being knocked back and then held in the air when it went to cutscene. The Kai Lame fight was pretty much the exact opposite.

I kept on owning him and he went back to his bubble, then at the very end he just stands there while the gunship does his job for him.

[Jadebaby]

David7204 wrote...

It is not plot armor.

I know what you're saying, that plot armour is more obvious stuff like Chuck Norris never getting defeated in Walker Texas Ranger, or Master Chief surviving a drop from orbit onto Requim. Or Shepard surviving after the breath scene.

But for all intents and purposes, it is in Kai Leng's case as well. It's just slightly different. In any case, it can be disputed whether or not Kai Leng surviving Thessia is implausible at best.