76 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBlackAdder13]

So I've been reading the Cullen thread and I've been thinking about Bioware's latest trend of having most LIs bisexual - a la DA 2. I understand the arguments about  resource efficency/meta-gaming/more player options/etc but honestly I really strongly prefer the way Origins handled LIs. I know the devs will probably call this meta-gaming so here's some insight on how I play my game: my first playthourgh is always my canon playthrough but I imagine subsequent playthroughs as "what-if" secnarios -- meaning this would happen if events played out slightly differently, etc. I disagree with the devs that this is meta-gaming because I'm not playing to optimize certain outcomes, rather, I'm playing to get a greater feel for the story and the world and using alternate "what-if" scenarios to flesh out my understanding of the events that surronded my canon character. This is why I did playthroughs of all the origins in Origins after completing the game with my canon city elf. 

Thus, if a charater is gay for my Hawke but then I do the opposite gender Hawke on another play thorough, the character still seems "bi" to me. I think Origins was a good start for LGBT equality in that it had two bi and two straight companions but making the character's sexual orientation revolve around your PC's gender just strikes me as too unrealistic, and, perhaps more convincingly, I actually think it's somewhat unfair to LGBT players. 

Why? We've never seen an exlucsively gay or lesbian companion LI in Dragon Age. Leliana and Zevran were great bi characters but making all the LIs in DA2 playersexual makes them bi in my mind and, frankly, it just wasn't convincing that they were ALL bi as the percentage of the population that's bi isn't that high. The sole exception to this was Isabella because it had previously been established in Origins and it was further explored through companion banter in DA2. Now straight people have had three exclusively straight interests (Alistair, Morrigan and Sebastian). This doesn't seem fair to lesbian/gay players, especially because there was an exclusively straight LI in DA2. Yes, the game where every other LI is playersexual/bi has an exclusively straight LI but no excluisvely gay LI. And yet I see many LGBT players laud the playersexual system as fair and inclusive even though Sebastian was not a fair and exlucisve LI.

Note, I think Sebastian makes more sense as a straight character so I'm advocating for a similar consistency amongst all LIs. Bioware writes romances after they've established the companion, their backstory and character so I would prefer Bioware to remain consistent with this method by determining the sexual orientation of each LI and not making them "playersexual." In short, I strongly prefer LIs who are definitively gay, bi or straight, rather than being devoid of a sexual orientation and merely be unquesitongly in love with the player no matter what. 

Just to shed some more light on how I go through my first/canon playthrough, I randomize EVERYTHING, including my character's sexual orientation. I use a random integer generator to determine my character's race, gender, class, etc. as well as to determine if my character is gay, straight or bi. My warden was a straight city elf male warrior and romanced Leliana while Hawke was gay male warrior and romanced Anders (because I didn't recruit Fenris for roleplaying reasons). So, although I'm a gay male, I don't neccesarily confine myself to same-sex LIs or even male PCs. 

I'm curious to see the opinions of other LGBT Dragon Age players on my thoughts because to me it seems that a lot of them are keen on the playersexual romances but I think this might be because Bioware has never actually made an excluisvely gay LI so they see it as the only alternative to mostly straight LIs with a few bisexual LIs thrown in. Where as we've had Alistair, Morrigan and Sebastian as exlusively straight LIs. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 17 novembre 2012 - 01:56 .

[Harle Cerulean]

First, this is not specifically DA3 related, and the same thing has been talked about a million times, and ends up with the same people giving the same arguments for and against. Plenty of LGBT folks have already given their stances, and your views are really nothing new. Some would love a spread of sexualities. Others continue to support all-bi LIs because it means everyone can have whatever option they want for their PC, and to them, that accessibility trumps your sense of 'realism'. Other people argue (quite rightfully) that it's unrealistic for LIs to be attracted to every single PC of a specific sex, with absolutely no other restrictions, so limiting by sex is ridiculous. Either way, the threads always get locked. And, again, this is not DA3 related, so this will also be locked, quite quickly, I imagine!

Finally, I hate to tell you (and every other person who says a lot of bisexual companions is 'unrealistic') but research has shown that the majority of humans are actually bisexual, to varying 'degrees' along a fluid scale. We are socialized to conform to 'moral' behaviors and lump ourselves into categories, with 'straight' being the most numerous because that is what society declares 'moral'. Meanwhile, 'bisexual' as a category appears to be the smallest because people who identify as bisexual are attacked from both sides - straight people and gay people alike say we're 'greedy' or '****s' or 'confused' or 'trying to play straight' from the gay side of things, precisely because we are not lumping ourselves into pile a or pile b. It's easier to say "Yeah, okay, I'm straight," or "Yeah, okay, I'm gay." A good friend of mine whom I know for a fact is sexually attracted to men and women identifies as gay because he got sick of exactly this.

In a society without the pressure to conform to labels or the stigma against bisexuality, it makes a lot of sense for more people to 'be bisexual'. Because a lot of people are. It's just not how they view themselves or what they call themselves, because of socialization.

[mya11]

I am straight and I am 100 % agree with you, I am ok for more diviversity racial and sexual, but I prefer the gamer can will have choice to choose romance for Hetero or gay.

I can understand the bi for all is bi are not expensive for the ressources and the fans but I prefer to have than character are straight and gay with her personality thans as Dragon age origins.

The problem for the gay players for this moment they have choice for bi romance but I prefer the romance than Mass effect 3 fore more diversity !!

[Aleya]

I'm bisexual and definitely not keen on it. I get enough your-orientation-doesn't-really-exist crap in my day to day life, I do not need Bioware joining the club by feeding me player-sexual companions.

All-bi LIs is fine. I prefer a selection of orientations, but it's still fine. But at least make them properly bi. Fenris and Merrill don't really bother me because they never give any indication of their orientation one way or another. The deal with Anders and Karl however just about had smoke steaming out my ears. Because for all Bioware's claims about "not introducing a gay/straight toggle" and "not feeling the need to protect players from something that's completely normal" they still apparently felt the need to protect ladyHawke from Anders' gay affair. It felt like a betrayal from the one company that's always done its best to give people from all walks of life a fair showing.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Finally, I hate to tell you (and every other person who says a lot of bisexual companions is 'unrealistic') but research has shown that the majority of humans are actually bisexual, to varying 'degrees' along a fluid scale. We are socialized to conform to 'moral' behaviors and lump ourselves into categories, with 'straight' being the most numerous because that is what society declares 'moral'. Meanwhile, 'bisexual' as a category appears to be the smallest because people who identify as bisexual are attacked from both sides - straight people and gay people alike say we're 'greedy' or '****s' or 'confused' or 'trying to play straight' from the gay side of things, precisely because we are not lumping ourselves into pile a or pile b. It's easier to say "Yeah, okay, I'm straight," or "Yeah, okay, I'm gay." A good friend of mine whom I know for a fact is sexually attracted to men and women identifies as gay because he got sick of exactly this.

You're disingenuously construing my post as anti-bi and I don't know how you arrived at anti-bi stereotypes from my post. Thank you for the LGBT studies 101 course but I'm well aware that sexuality is fluid and most people fit along the spectrum between gay and straight. I enjoyed your condescending recap though.

As my post makes clear, my issue is with "playersexual" characters, not bisexual ones. As you pointed out, many people say "I'm gay" or "I'm straight" despite more nuances in their orientation (myself included). My straight warden was bi-curious and paid a man at the Pearl and flirted with Zevran. My gay Hawke slept with Isabella just because he was curious and she was coming onto him.

Since you prefer every character to be playersexual then what's your take on not making Sebastian playersexual? If Thedas truly operates completely 100% of the real world's taboo on homosexuality and bisexuality, including in the Chantry, why didn't bioware make him romancable to male PCs? I still feel like it's an example of picking and choosing if Bioware's stated aim is to fairly expand romance options for everyone while using resources efficently

Lastly, although this may have been talked about "a million times" so has pretty much every other thread on this board as there's no new information about DA3 until the Spring, so my thread is not unusual in that regard. Furthermore, I'm relatively new here and have not read these threads so I would like different people's perspectives. And it relates indirectly to DA3 as a discussion of future LIs in future DA titles is implicit in the thread. There are many threads on this board that are implicitly DA3 related in the same way. But if the mods feel it is not directly related enough, perhaps they can move it to a more appropriate board.

[esper]

Aleya wrote...

I'm bisexual and definitely not keen on it. I get enough your-orientation-doesn't-really-exist crap in my day to day life, I do not need Bioware joining the club by feeding me player-sexual companions.

All-bi LIs is fine. I prefer a selection of orientations, but it's still fine. But at least make them properly bi. Fenris and Merrill don't really bother me because they never give any indication of their orientation one way or another. The deal with Anders and Karl however just about had smoke steaming out my ears. Because for all Bioware's claims about "not introducing a gay/straight toggle" and "not feeling the need to protect players from something that's completely normal" they still apparently felt the need to protect ladyHawke from Anders' gay affair. It felt like a betrayal from the one company that's always done its best to give people from all walks of life a fair showing.

They didn't protect Lady Hawke from anything. Anders chose not to tell for whatever reasons properly because it would have been a very akward conversation and felt forced in. (Remember he uses his 'gay affair' as you call it to test the waters with mHawke. That kinda wouldn't have worked with a fHawke in that situation.)

He is still open about that in Fereldan's circle everyone was kissing everyone.

[Harle Cerulean]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Finally, I hate to tell you (and every other person who says a lot of bisexual companions is 'unrealistic') but research has shown that the majority of humans are actually bisexual, to varying 'degrees' along a fluid scale. We are socialized to conform to 'moral' behaviors and lump ourselves into categories, with 'straight' being the most numerous because that is what society declares 'moral'. Meanwhile, 'bisexual' as a category appears to be the smallest because people who identify as bisexual are attacked from both sides - straight people and gay people alike say we're 'greedy' or '****s' or 'confused' or 'trying to play straight' from the gay side of things, precisely because we are not lumping ourselves into pile a or pile b. It's easier to say "Yeah, okay, I'm straight," or "Yeah, okay, I'm gay." A good friend of mine whom I know for a fact is sexually attracted to men and women identifies as gay because he got sick of exactly this.

You're disingenuously construing my post as anti-bi and I don't know how you arrived at anti-bi stereotypes from my post. Thank you for the LGBT studies 101 course but I'm well aware that sexuality is fluid and most people fit along the spectrum between gay and straight. I enjoyed your condescending recap though.

As my post makes clear, my issue is with "playersexual" characters, not bisexual ones. As you pointed out, many people say "I'm gay" or "I'm straight" despite more nuances in their orientation (myself included). My straight warden was bi-curious and paid a man at the Pearl and flirted with Zevran. My gay Hawke slept with Isabella just because he was curious and she was coming onto him.

Since you prefer every character to be playersexual then what's your take on not making Sebastian playersexual? If Thedas truly operates completely 100% of the real world's taboo on homosexuality and bisexuality, including in the Chantry, why didn't bioware make him romancable to male PCs? I still feel like it's an example of picking and choosing if Bioware's stated aim is to fairly expand romance options for everyone while using resources efficently

Lastly, although this may have been talked about "a million times" so has pretty much every other thread on this board as there's no new information about DA3 until the Spring, so my thread is not unusual in that regard. Furthermore, I'm relatively new here and have not read these threads so I would like different people's perspectives. And it relates indirectly to DA3 as a discussion of future LIs in future DA titles is implicit in the thread. There are many threads on this board that are implicitly DA3 related in the same way. But if the mods feel it is not directly related enough, perhaps they can move it to a more appropriate board.

Oh, I'm sorry, was something besides minimizing bisexuality intended by "Leliana and Zevran were great bi characters but making all the LIs in DA2 playersexual makes them bi in my mind and, frankly,  it just wasn't convincing that they were ALL bi as the percentage of the population that's bi isn't that high?"

I really couldn't tell.

And editing to address more of your post now that my initial irritation hgas calmed down:

Yes, I would prefer it is Bioware didn't say "You can see their sexuality as whatever you want," because that's pretty gross to me.  But saying "Take away choices from people because it's not realistic" is worse.  Fact of the matter is, there are unlikely to be enough resources for a 'fair' spread of LIs of all sexualities and genders, and all-bi LIs is infinitely preferable to DA:O's system, where straight characters get choice and gay characters get 0one LI and if they're lucky, they like it.  (Personally, I love Zevran, so I didn't mind being 'stuck' with him on my m!Surana, but some people don't like him!  And had no other option than celibacy for their gay characters)

Sebastian is an outlier.  He's DLC, and while he's a romance, he's not a fully fleshed-out romance, with as much development as the others.  I'd have preferred it if he was available to both sexes, yes, but I'm not up in arms about him being available only to female characters, in part because yes, it does suit him decently - not because he's necessarily straight, but because as a member of the Chantry, and a prince, he would limit himself because if he stays with the chantry, he can only marry a woman (because he needs to be 'chaste', ie having sexual relations only withing socailly-approved marriage, and in Thedas, marriage is about procreation, and so gay couples don't marry), and if he doesn't, he needs to plan for having heirs since he plans to retake his family's throne.  He could certainly do the latter while having a male lover, but perhaps Bioware didn't want another version of the non-human-noble-dating-Alistair kerfluffle . . .

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 17 novembre 2012 - 03:04 .

[lil yonce]

I'm straight and I agree with the OP. The game isn't embracing homosexuality, it circumvents it with playersexual characters. I think ME3's characters Samantha and Steve detailed much more identity and richness.

[Knight of Dane]

If there is enough romance options to give people who want to role play their character at least two options no matter the sexuality then I agree.

I prefer the model with one straight/bi/****** option for PC in both genders, but this will already make a big party with just that. Unless some of the options like Cortez and Traynor are non-companions.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Finally, I hate to tell you (and every other person who says a lot of bisexual companions is 'unrealistic') but research has shown that the majority of humans are actually bisexual, to varying 'degrees' along a fluid scale. We are socialized to conform to 'moral' behaviors and lump ourselves into categories, with 'straight' being the most numerous because that is what society declares 'moral'. Meanwhile, 'bisexual' as a category appears to be the smallest because people who identify as bisexual are attacked from both sides - straight people and gay people alike say we're 'greedy' or '****s' or 'confused' or 'trying to play straight' from the gay side of things, precisely because we are not lumping ourselves into pile a or pile b. It's easier to say "Yeah, okay, I'm straight," or "Yeah, okay, I'm gay." A good friend of mine whom I know for a fact is sexually attracted to men and women identifies as gay because he got sick of exactly this.

You're disingenuously construing my post as anti-bi and I don't know how you arrived at anti-bi stereotypes from my post. Thank you for the LGBT studies 101 course but I'm well aware that sexuality is fluid and most people fit along the spectrum between gay and straight. I enjoyed your condescending recap though.

As my post makes clear, my issue is with "playersexual" characters, not bisexual ones. As you pointed out, many people say "I'm gay" or "I'm straight" despite more nuances in their orientation (myself included). My straight warden was bi-curious and paid a man at the Pearl and flirted with Zevran. My gay Hawke slept with Isabella just because he was curious and she was coming onto him.

Since you prefer every character to be playersexual then what's your take on not making Sebastian playersexual? If Thedas truly operates completely 100% of the real world's taboo on homosexuality and bisexuality, including in the Chantry, why didn't bioware make him romancable to male PCs? I still feel like it's an example of picking and choosing if Bioware's stated aim is to fairly expand romance options for everyone while using resources efficently

Lastly, although this may have been talked about "a million times" so has pretty much every other thread on this board as there's no new information about DA3 until the Spring, so my thread is not unusual in that regard. Furthermore, I'm relatively new here and have not read these threads so I would like different people's perspectives. And it relates indirectly to DA3 as a discussion of future LIs in future DA titles is implicit in the thread. There are many threads on this board that are implicitly DA3 related in the same way. But if the mods feel it is not directly related enough, perhaps they can move it to a more appropriate board.

Oh, I'm sorry, was something besides minimizing bisexuality intended by "Leliana and Zevran were great bi characters but making all the LIs in DA2 playersexual makes them bi in my mind and, frankly,  it just wasn't convincing that they were ALL bi as the percentage of the population that's bi isn't that high?"

I really couldn't tell.

No, Leliana, Zevran and Isabella are all belivable bi characters because Bioware specificaly established that they were interested in both men and women that were not the player. Bioware did not establish this for any of the other "bi" LIs (I use bi in quotes as I consider them playersexual, not bi). You're unreasonably extrapolating stereotypes (which admitedly Zevran and Isabella fall into) from my otherwise innocuous post. The "bisexuals are all ****s who just wanna get laid" is a worrying trope that you accurately pin on Zev and Isabella (but not Leliana) but I didn't write those characters, Bioware did, nor did I say tha the reason they were belivable was because they were promiscuious. You're wrongly accusing me of that assertion. They're belivable because of the in-game context of their past love interests/back story. 

I explained why, for the way I personally role play and play the game, a player sexual character is a bisexual character in my mind and I don't see what's controversial about that. 

57% of the companions in DA2 are player sexual, or bi as I PERSONALLY think of it in my playthroughs for reasons explained in my previous posts. 57% of the real world population does not identify as bi (myself included). LGBT-identified individuals only make 10% of the population. That's not to say Bioware should feel obliged to base their LIs based on these percentages (that'd be absurd) but that is to say that I would like to see gay LIs who are not player sexual, just like we've seen straight LIs who are not player sexual. Really I thought this was clear from my original post. 

(because he needs to be 'chaste', ie having sexual relations only withing socailly-approved marriage, and in Thedas, marriage is about procreation, and so gay couples don't marry)

You just conceeded that there are constraints on homosexuality and bisexuality in Thedas. Therefore, it is unlikely that 57% of your closest friends will be bi in Thedas as well. 

Also, like I said, I understand the resource argument that's why I'll never be up in arms or consider it a deal breaker if Bioware moves forward with all playersexual companions (although I'd still like to see an exclusively gay companion for a change)  where as you seem like you'd be up in arms if they stopped making companions playersexual. It's just something I like to see if resources permit it and certainly takes the backburner to other features in the game that I'd rather they spend time on. 

ETA: Regarding more limited options for LGB folks, it's true -- I really dislike Anders (in both Awakening and DA2) but he was my only romance option as I chose not to recruit Fenris so even with player sexual characters this exists to some extent if you want a same sex romance. Nontheless I still personally prefer the realism and I don't necceasrily mind romancing the characters I dislike as I don't roleplay myself--that'd be incredibly boring.  

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 17 novembre 2012 - 03:24 .

[Lazengan]

the game isn't out yet and all people can think about is the sex sex sex sex sex

Oh North American culture...

[TheBlackAdder13]

Lazengan wrote...

the game isn't out yet and all people can think about is the sex sex sex sex sex

Oh North American culture...

This thread isn't about sex, it's about romances which are an enjoyable part of the game from an RPing perspective. 

[TheBlackAdder13]

EDIT: Double post, sorry 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 17 novembre 2012 - 03:12 .

[slimgrin]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

 Bioware writes romances after they've established the companion, their backstory and character so I would prefer Bioware to remain consistent with this method by determining the sexual orientation of each LI and not making them "playersexual." In short, I strongly prefer LIs who are definitively gay, bi or straight, rather than being devoid of a sexual orientation and merely be unquesitongly in love with the player no matter what. 

I agree 100%. But the LGB community does not, and this point has been brought up a thousand times. Bioware won't budge from their stance.

[TheBlackAdder13]

slimgrin wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

 Bioware writes romances after they've established the companion, their backstory and character so I would prefer Bioware to remain consistent with this method by determining the sexual orientation of each LI and not making them "playersexual." In short, I strongly prefer LIs who are definitively gay, bi or straight, rather than being devoid of a sexual orientation and merely be unquesitongly in love with the player no matter what. 

I agree 100%. But the LGB community does not, and this point has been brought up a thousand times. Bioware won't budge from their stance.

There are LGB posters in this thread who do not agree with it, myself included. Even though they'll probably continue to make playersexual companions for resource efficency, I'd still like them to throw in an exclusively gay companion here and there (like Sebastian was excluisvely straight). 

[Battlebloodmage]

Meh, I prefer the herosexual angle since the alternative would likely mean that there's only one LI. It's fine if you dislike it, but for me, it added more replayability because it allows me to choose who I want to romance. It would be fun to have exclusively gay character, but it's unlikely since Bioware has limited resources and it would make more sense to make straight exclusive characters since they're the majority consumers.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 17 novembre 2012 - 03:29 .

[slimgrin]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

 Bioware writes romances after they've established the companion, their backstory and character so I would prefer Bioware to remain consistent with this method by determining the sexual orientation of each LI and not making them "playersexual." In short, I strongly prefer LIs who are definitively gay, bi or straight, rather than being devoid of a sexual orientation and merely be unquesitongly in love with the player no matter what. 

I agree 100%. But the LGB community does not, and this point has been brought up a thousand times. Bioware won't budge from their stance.

There are LGB posters in this thread who do not agree with it, myself included. Even though they'll probably continue to make playersexual companions for resource efficency, I'd still like them to throw in an exclusively gay companion here and there (like Sebastian was excluisvely straight). 

Myself and some others argued for this over and over and over, and I'm telling you they aren't going to do it. Not trying to be a dick here. You've made a sound argument but this is ultimately a waste of your time.

Modifié par slimgrin, 17 novembre 2012 - 03:23 .

[Sejborg]

I was disappointed to find out that Jack in Mass Effect couldn't hook up with my femshep. I think she could have worked great as a asexual character as in not having any sexual preferences because of her damaged background. If you talk to Jack, you can also learn that she has been with women before. So why not femshep?

In DA2 it seemed to me that Isabella was clearly straight. She clearly lies with all the men in Kirkwall, so surely she likes ****. That personality trait seems to come in conflict when she ends up with a female Hawke. I don't remember her talking about enjoying being with women? Or am I not remembering something?

Also Merrill talks about enjoying the Qunaris bodies at one point. But Merrill was supposed to be gay in that playthrough because I played as a female. But I don't recall her talking about having a preference for women, or enjoying the female form?

In DA2 it seems to me that Merrill and Isabella are straight but they can make an exception if Hawke is female. I can't see Merrill and Isabella as being gay.

I think the Dragon Age department of Bioware is doing an honorable job in trying to give options for gay people. So instead of stopping doing that, my suggestion for Bioware is to make the characters different so they fit what gender the player is. So if the player is female then change the banter, so instead of having some banter with Merrill being horny for Qunari she could have been horny for human females.

And if the player character is a girl, then instead of having Isabella sleeping with all the men in Kirkwall, then let her sleep with all the woman instead. Or Isabella could have just been written as bi sexual character that sleeps equally with both genders.

[Battlebloodmage]

greengoron89 wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

This thread isn't about sex

You're right, it's not - it's about juvenile wish fulfillment for the dumb masses. Bioware aims to please with its stellar cast of Mary Sues that anyone can pixel bang, regardless of sexuality.

Curiously enough, there are many games with this supposed herosexual, but Bioware is the only one who gets so much hates for it.

[RedArmyShogun]

greengoron89 wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

This thread isn't about sex

You're right, it's not - it's about juvenile wish fulfillment for the dumb masses. Bioware aims to please with its stellar cast of Mary Sues that anyone can pixel bang, regardless of sexuality.

*claps* which is the caused by lack of discipline and over gratification and sexulization of the corrupt westerners. That were let to run free like wild capitilist pigbeast that they are.

[TheBlackAdder13]

greengoron89 wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

This thread isn't about sex

You're right, it's not - it's about juvenile wish fulfillment for the dumb masses. Bioware aims to please with its stellar cast of Mary Sues that anyone can pixel bang, regardless of sexuality.

Romances are not about juevinile wish fulfillment. They add substance and extra dimensions to the role playing elements of the game. For example, my warden's romance with Leliana converted him to her particular "heresy" and, coupled with his expereinces with the priests in the alieange, brought him more in line with the Andrastian line of thinking than the Dalish line of thought. This, in turn, when comibned with his experiences with abominations/blood magic, made him into a Wynne style circle advocate, and caused him to refuse the dark ritual and eventually stab Morrigan in Witch Hunt. It also made him a less "hardened" character as he was more willing to see the good in people. 

Hawke's romance with Anders made him slightly more sympathetic to the plight of the mages on a more philospihical level and made him anti-circle (but Bethany did most of that) until he realized Anders was up to something in Act III and, when he blew up the chantry, Hawke stabbing him was a much more bitter and difficult decision. 

In DA2 it seemed to me that Isabella was clearly straight. She clearly lies with all the men in Kirkwall, so surely she likes ****. That personality trait seems to come in conflict when she ends up with a female Hawke. I don't remember her talking about enjoying being with women? Or am I not remembering something?

In banter with Bethany, Bethany asks her about her experiences with women and they have a dialouge about it. I think she also mentions it in Origins and sleeps with the female or male warden regardless of gender and will have the threesome/foursome in Origins if you bring the relevant romances along. 

Curiously enough, there are many games with this supposed herosexual, but Bioware is the only one who gets so much hates for it.

I'm not hating on Bioware for anything. I applaud and thank them for being one of the few companies to include inclusive romance options. I'm just posting about improvements I would like to see made. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 17 novembre 2012 - 03:52 .

[Sejborg]

greengoron89 wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

This thread isn't about sex

You're right, it's not - it's about juvenile wish fulfillment for the dumb masses. Bioware aims to please with its stellar cast of Mary Sues that anyone can pixel bang, regardless of sexuality.

It's effective story telling. Deal with it. 

[Puzzlewell]

While Isabela's dialogue does seem to lean more on the talking about being with men side, from what I've seen there are subtle dialogue changes when she is with a LadyHawke compared to a MaleHawke. I can only speak from the female side of it from what I personally play but I've seen it stated that she is a bit more possessive of a LadyHawke and treats the beginnings of a MaleHawke relationship like it is just a fling (from what I've read regarding her dialogue per gender).

I'm for the all bi scope myself because it is nice not having to plan around just one character a la DAO and ME up until 3, but I will admit that I wish to see the characters actually make some acknowledgement over it. Yes you could say they aren't concerned enough to bring it up since to them it isn't a big deal, but it does make things feel a little copy and paste to the player.