[quote]This also might be a game limitation. For a mass army that you can't interact with, I bet it's easier to program a bunch of males with 1 line than females with 2 lines and determine which should be where. A bit shortcut? Of course. But shortcuts like that mean the game gets out quicker. And dang it, now I want to go through the cutscenes again to see exactly which fighters were slashing when. Another excuse for another playthrough? I think so! Ahem. Anyway. Most cutscenes that involve fighting aren't up close and personal enough to show faces (and faces are usually covered with helmets in such scenes) and female in plate is very.. non-feminine. One of the amazing wonders of female plate.[/quote]
One thing is for sure, there were no female fighters battling without their helms. As to their shapes, I always found it easy to distinguish them from a distance even with their helmets on. It's very easy to spot them all over camp at Ostagar.
[quote]Male mages meet the same standards. They wear dresses and don't engage in melee. I don't see how that makes it more feminine to do so for mages in general. However, Petra and the other female will attack you in the tower as well, and Petra was said to be fighting prior to the appearance of the group. It wasn't shown due to time differences, but it does show that she was involved in the defense of the tower, unlike the (male) templars who were literally created for such a thing.[/quote]
I've never provoked Petra, but if she battles us then she's little different from the other mages who would take us on.
Wynne was shown as a woman fighting only because she wears a dress and she shoots magic. It's BioWare's gender-restricting reason for why all the female companions are restricted to being casters and archers. Showing them is not wrong. Showing only them
is wrong.
[quote]Ah, I think we'll have to agree to differ on that definition, then. A friendly kiss on the cheek isn't, imo, any form of prostitution especially in this context. I think it's more a play on how things usually go (like Leiliana's epilogue "does the hero/ine get his/ her girl") in stories. The man asks for kisses, they fall in love and get marired and have a happy life. Now, obviously love and happy life aren't happening, but you can ask for a chaste kiss and beyond that, nothign is expected. And when the one in the chantry (curse you chantry-girl, i can't remember your name!) is uncomfortable giving you a kiss, you can back-off. That, to me, shows that it's a chose between the two and not something that's forced on either. Beyond that, it's not like you told her you'd only save her brother if she kissed you afterward, so there's no expected payment.[/quote]
Those females were still surrounded by an aura of sexuality. They're treated as objects of lust first and foremost. Their male counterparts were never placed in similar circumstances where they would have to endure these unhealthy advances.
[quote]Males, on the other hand, tell you from the beginning what they'll give you. Any bargaining afterward is only to adjust the price up or tell them to forget it. That, to me, would seem to speak of doing things for women out of kindness, but for men for profit. A favor for a woman, but a man needs to have you doing a "job". Even if it's the same job as the woman wants you to do, it can't be interpreted as such. I'd call that a slap to men as well as women, but it cuts both ways at least.[/quote]
You just described another one of BioWare's ill-thought gender-assignments. Perhaps we both feel this is wrong, but BioWare is comfortable with carrying on the notion that women are more often expected to bargain with their bodies, and men not at all. Who does that serve?
[quote]Well, even in the party you've got influenctial women. Leiliana, Morrigan, and Wynne are all very strong. Ser Cauthrien is an example of a strong woman who doesn't need to be rescued. Anora is as well. Anora's servant is somewhat strong, considering her status. The revered mothers are decently strong - try and defy the one in lothering. No tithe, no Lieliana, and low persuade. The only way to get her to move to your side is to convince her that three well-armed people (one being a mage) are going to descend on one old lady. Falling to that pressure is understandable, even with the templars there (ignoring game mechanics, one sword-thrust or a few spells and she's gone before they can move). The grand cleric at the landsmet obviously holds a strong sway over the landsmet as she's able to condemn a guy who for all appearances IS king for what he's done. You've got strong women in the dalish, as well - your keeper in the origin, the next keeper in the treaties-clan, the two guards at the treatiest-clan, gheyna (to a degree).[/quote]
Yes, they are. But I look down on Cauthrien for she never posesses her own mind. Erliana...I'll simply say she could've been worse than what she was. The Revered Mother in Lothering was glued to her chair at the worst time possible. Her hold on her faith was slipping from her, and unlike her counterpart in Redcliffe, this woman was clinging blindly to her faith at the cost of everything.
It is too easy for people to not even notice the grand cleric at the Landsmeet. I don't even remember how many lines she has, and she isn't even included in the balcony-shots among the other power-players unless the PC says something that specifically motivates her to weigh in.
Thumbs down on Gheyna. But by the same judgment, thumbs down on Cammen as well.
[quote]Weaker males are everywhere, imo. They just tend to be overlooked, as their interaction isn't so great and/ or they're not all in the same place. But when the weaker females are easy to interact with and the stronger ones take a while to get to and/ or have little interaction, it seems more skewed than it is. You could consider Alistair himself to be an example of a weak man, though he's stronger than some as he actually does get out and fight... when you push him toward doing something. He does raise a stink at things.. but backs down when you tell him what's going to happen. Cammen is a shining example of a weak male who should be cowering in the chantry with the women.[/quote]
I think that sequence of events is repeatable among all the party companions, which is why I tend to respect the female companions more than the other female npcs. Among the non-companion females we come across, we see far less backbone.
[quote]Vaughn DOES beg, however. He does plead. He just mixes this in with trying to demand you to do something while pleading for you to take the money and let him out. I think, however, that has to do more with his perosnality than simply him being a male. He was locked into being a male because they needed a rapist for the origin they had in mind. Had they not needed the rapist, he could very easily have been male or female. The shopper in the market district has the same arrogance and I can imagine her acting the same way in the dungeon.[/quote]
He fits the BioWare mandate that male npcs in DA will demand what they want or need. Of course we can cut him down to size, with or without the knife. But not for one moment was this male character even allowed to consider it appropriate to show "weakness" that the dumsels were quick to demonstrate. Thus, from BioWare it is ok and encouraged if a female considers herself weak, but to them it is unthinkable for a male.
[quote]Ha, I forgot about Soris. Yeah, he begs somewhat. And in the origin itself, he wants to run away at every opportunity. You, the PC, have to push him into doing something. I've always wondered how he gets there in the non-origin settings.. maybe he does have some balls after all. However, when he begs he does so in a pretty dignified way if I remember correctly. Most of his dialogue is focused on what happened to the alienage and what had he done to them.[/quote]
Notice that he is unsure of his position in the eyes of the party, unless (I assume)the PC is a city elf. All the other (coherent)male prisoners are very sure of themselves, manufactured or otherwise. The elf is non-human, sub-human, fey, and and a second-class citizen compared to those guys, one or all of these attributes depending on who you ask. He's a caricature of stereotypically-negative attributes lumped into one person. I do not think that any of these attributes are bad, but BioWare definitely treats them as such.
[quote]I'd argue that he was demanded to be that way simply because of the circumstances as well. However, think of it logically: how many blacksmiths are females for humans? And if it was a woman, why wouldn't she be in the chantry with the other women? He had to be male because he was outside of the chantry, not because he was difficult or beligerent. Even the women working (Bella gives evidence of this) are going to the chantry and are only where they might be because they have to be.[/quote]
No human female blacksmiths. Not even any human female business-owners except the madam of the Pearl. Isabella is a pirate captain, yet BioWare only granted them their stations because they both exist mainly to sexually gratify PCs. I mean, isn't there a whole achievement that revolves around Isabella? Can you imagine BioWare creating a male npc to fulfill that role? They would if they weren't sexist and homophobic. What a coincidence that the only human female business owners(Isabella is human? Or elf?) are stuck tending to sexual needs. They may be tending to both male and female comers, but all the same they represent women stuck fulfilling the role of sexual gratification.
Isabella is her own woman, which is good. But. Isabella was chosen to be female because of her character's sexual history with Zevran, which is bad because of homophobia. Isabella was chosen to be female because she, like the madam, are amenable to the most basic needs of fanboy titillation which is also bad due to sexism. Case in point, Morrigan and Leiliana are both larger characters who I respect. They also happen to be pretty young women most fanboys like for different reasons. Everyone is thus happy. The two women in the Pearl however, are largely defined by their roles as receptacles for fanboy(and occasional fangirl) enjoyment. These two have no larger story or personalities to balance out the sexist role they've been saddled with.
[quote]Llyod is, imo, anything but proud. He's a blusterer - he tries to make up any excuse in the book as to why he shoudln't fight. in fact, through his character they show that he's incompetent and uses Bella in what can only be termed as an abusive relationship. Shortage of work means she has to put up with it, but you can throw the inn to Bella and she does just fine. Now, is that to say that femPC should have had some dialogue that had him trying to hit on her, based on Bella's accounts? Of course not. However, coward that he is, he probably isn't going to hit on a woman that could gut him in a moment. Not to mention that she may or may not have a male behind her who may or may not resent anything he might say to her. Intimate? He's probably ****ting bricks to try and make sure that he's not going to bother these people.[/quote]
They had no compunctions against writing a repulsive male whom no one would want to touch. They had no compunctions against writing numerous young females meant to be fetching, emptyheaded, and powerless.
Yes, he blusters and tries to pass it off as pride. It matters not what his motivations were beyond the fact that he is confrontational and makes no attempts to appeal to a player's better nature, all because BioWare had a male quest npc on their hands. Of course he's a worm. Undoubtedly some of those women were too. But BioWare unwisely attempts to distinguish them from each other on the arbitrary basis of gender alone.
Lloyd was the one in power, however illusionary or tenuous that may have been. Bella had no power. All because of their sexes, thanks to BioWare. It would not have been so offensive if this had not been a theme repeated all over that zone, and in many of the others.
[quote]He doesn't say much if you ask him about it. I haven't done the first dialogue with it in a while, but the second he does admit that he knows they're not blessed, but they ARE symbols of hte maker and would settle the men. He's also clearly intimidated by the PC, male OR female. He doesn't know what to address you, and if you're not human he gets even more confused. He's also a man with a major battle coming ahead that he KNOWS he's going to fight in and probably isn't thinking "oh, hey, girl here.. let's see if I can get some pre-battle sex!". Also, Alistair seems to indicate that the Chantry is just as restrictive of... lusts as any real life religion has been. And with Isolde being so religious and her knights being very keen to have symbols of the Maker, this could factor in pretty heavily[/quote]
Yes, I like him because he shows brains and courtesy.
[quote]Teagan is, imo, something of a victim. Sure, he can fight, but he's the Bann and stays in the chantry? Something fishy there - with them so desperate, leaving "one guy" in there to protect them is utterly silly. And useless. A force overwhelms ~10 men outside, but Bann Teagan will hold them off with his jazz hands. And Isolde.. jesus, Isolde. I could write an essay of hatred about her. However, I've never really seen the attraction that most people say is there at that point. Oh, maybe she cares for him in a friend way, but I've never gotten the feeling that they had something going on. She's very much a damsel in distress, but ANYONE in that situation would be. It can't be Arl Eamon because that'd negate a lot of the story (and he wouldn't have invited an apostate in in the first place), so it has to be Isolde.[/quote]
Teagan seemed proactive to me. He said he risked approaching the castle on several occasions after this began, and he knows everything that's happening in the town. He was friendly and all business. I think his location was mostly to do with his status...if Eamon and the others were dead(and how I wish), the titles and land would fall to Teagan. I don't know his opinion about bloodlines, but I'm sure he does anything that he thinks would please Eamon. If Teagan had been female, I'd be equally impressed by his intellect, if not his devotion to Eamon. In any case, he seemed to be responsible enough.
Isolde, gah. Let's just say she's a close-talker with her brother-in-law. I speak for myself, but if I were married I would no longer place my hand on any attractive male's abdomen unless it belonged to my husband, or unless it was related to work.
She and Teagan definitely had an attraction. I doubt they've ever acted on it. Still, both their expressions, voices, and body-language told the tale. And why else would he acquiesce to her dumsel request?
I may have become a dumsel myself in her shoes, but she was a dumsel from beginning to end. Her doing was what brought about this mess. I value myself more than she apparently did, so I would not have married Eamon in the first place. They deserve each other, honestly. He lied about Alistair to her. She lied about Connor to him. That couple and their seeds should all be slain by fire.
[quote]The Revered Mothers are an interesting study. They're quite powerful and seemingly chaste, but who knows what they're allowed? We know templars can't have families, but is there a similiar ban on Revered Mothers? Beyond that question, she's a very strong person. She's not going to mislead people so they feel better - you have to have a decent persuade score to convince her that it'll help them fight better. Try and say that outright and she'll tell you that she's not going to spread a lie because it'll make someone feel better.
Honestly, there's not much the revered mother *could* have you do. The mayor is taking control of the militia, as is no doubt his duty as the mayor. The knights are governing themselves. I suppose she could have you.. I dunno, donate poulices or something to help heal the injured, or money. But unless it was money, people would want to leave to get mats/ find them/ come back later with them and BAM! town gone. Whoops. She's stuck by the fact that you can't leave town, which is a gameplay reason more than a male-female reason. There's just nothing for her to do, unless afterward she wants you to cleanse the castle or something. Except, of course, only Teagan knows you're able to get in fairly easily and will be going in to rescue him.
[/quote]
No, I don't suppose there was any task we could've helped her with. In part, it was because her own tasks can be seen as useless. That is not how I feel completely because it is her responsibility to counsel people about the religion which the conditioned populace depend on. But for practical matters, were there any proactive women about? No, just...cowering in the Chantry.
Modifié par TheDauntless, 11 janvier 2010 - 06:09 .
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