277 réponses à ce sujet

[Shamagar]

Maviarab wrote...

 In all seriousness, if your GF like that now, find another one dude trust me.

This statement was full of pure win.

[Tirigon]

Shamagar wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

 In all seriousness, if your GF like that now, find another one dude trust me.

This statement was full of pure win.

This reminds me of a year-old thread by someone who dumped his girlfriend because she disliked him playing too long...

[Derengard]

It makes them look more like forces of nature, apart from all the other reasons.

Modifié par Derengard, 03 janvier 2010 - 10:00 .

[Squiggles1334]

Shamagar wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

 In all seriousness, if your GF like that now, find another one dude trust me.

This statement was full of pure win.

I disagree, Sandiz83 probably doesn't need us telling him how to manage his love life.

[Creature 1]

Ulicus wrote...

I wish that the desire demons were always the opposite sex to that of your character. Well, uh, unless you'd done something in the game to indicate your character swung a different way. Oh, or maybe you'd get to shoot it down, only for it to try changing sex as a tactic.

That'd be pretty cool.

QFT. 

I don't think demons really have sexes.  They just have ways that they choose to appear.  Because of this they should be taking the shape that is most likely to match your desires. 

But probably the devs were nervous about squicking guys who play a female character by presenting them with a male desire demon. 

[Bratinov]

Hmm because most gamers are male?(or at least from where I come from)
Or would you rather watch male gimp desire demons (i cant believe i wrote that)... anyway female players get lots of "prettyboy" fanservice from Zevran alone.

There are plenty of male demons.
Uhh that naked dude in the cage at Ostigar

[Sandiz83]

Derengard wrote...

It makes them look more like natural forces of nature, apart from all the other reasons.

yes offcourse and men looks more like machine and made of stone, have no feeling. what's more on your mide.

[Herr Uhl]

Squiggles1334 wrote...

Shamagar wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

 In all seriousness, if your GF like that now, find another one dude trust me.

This statement was full of pure win.

I disagree, Sandiz83 probably doesn't need us telling him how to manage his love life.

Not having a forum of gaming nerds giving him advice on his love-life, surely you jest!

[Asylumer]

Default137 wrote...

Erm, what were you expecting?

No offense, I can think of only two creatures in this game that are partially nude, the Lady of the Forest, and the Desire Demons, one represents beauty in its natural form, and the other represents the desires of those who its trying to manipulate, considering you are in a party of largely men, well, what form do you think it would take if it wanted to control your group.

I think a better explanaition, for the desire demon at least, is that the demon takes a form by putting together the thoughts of humans which mirror its nature. Obviously the demon would take a form fitting of lust, and since the developers didn't create more than one model for each demon form that's what they look like to us in-game. Personally I like to imagine that demons create their own personalized look and its only because of development issues that we're limited to the ones we see. The succubus is a popular archetype and it makes sense that Bioware would go for that one to represent their "lust" demon.

As for the Forest Spirit, well... maybe Zathrian was a perv?

[Tirigon]

Bratinov wrote...

Hmm because most gamers are male?(or at least from where I come from)
Or would you rather watch male gimp desire demons (i cant believe i wrote that)... anyway female players get lots of "prettyboy" fanservice from Zevran alone.

There are plenty of male demons.
Uhh that naked dude in the cage at Ostigar

Maybe it´s an excuse for Morrigan. If a male PC wants to survive he has to sleep with her. A female PC can make Alistair do the dirty work. In return male PCs get the desire demons, at least.......

[NightmarezAbound]

I look upon the desire demon this way, they feed on desires, that is where they draw their power from. So maybe the devs are saying, that though men and women both have strong desires, that men are easier to manipulate through more baser means?

[Whisa]

Sandiz83 wrote...

Derengard wrote...

It makes them look more like natural forces of nature, apart from all the other reasons.

yes offcourse and men looks more like machine and made of stone, have no feeling. what's more on your mide.

No one said men were made of stone and without feeling.

Women are potrayed as forces of nature more than men.  In fact, the manly forces of nature have to do more with strength/ wisdom than women.  Mostly strength, as wisdom can be found in both.

*shrug* I'm a woman and have no problem with female desire demons.  Male desire demons would be... odd.  Especially a desire demon that is POSESSING A MALE AT THE TIME.  I can only think of two offhand (though I'm sure there's another I'm forgetting somewhere) - one posessing Connor and one posessing a male templar.   And Kitty, actually, who is defined as being female by the girl.  The undefined ones are trying to posess men/ boy, and thus would be female..  what's the problem here?

[Sylph_14]

Sandiz83 wrote...

Sylph_14 wrote...

Blood flying everywhere, the occasional head rolling around, the ability to massacre the innocent...

... and people still get offended by breasts? Oi...

Not to mention, why would supernatural creatures care about something as silly as modesty?

This is a game, you play it becous you like the story, like movies you like them cous the story apeel to you or have something to say to you. anyway... books, movies and even game are a reflection of the real world. you can't get away from that.

Look at "Transformers 2" there som sexism there to arcordin to some, but that that i whink about are the two twin robots, (the voius acting was doen by some colored men), and Mikel bay did get some heavy critics becous thoes robots. and some even said that it was raisist, but that is an other discustion. i hope you got my piont any how?

I'm not really seeing any point. Having some near nude women in the game does not make it sexist against women anymore than rescuing all those men in their tightie-whities from Howe's dungeon makes it sexist against men.

If the game portrayed a majority of it's female characters as weak and unable to fend for themselves, then a sexism argument might have some merit. Of course, that's clearly not the case.

Never seen Transformers, so no idea what that example is about.

[Sandiz83]

Whisa wrote...

Sandiz83 wrote...

Derengard wrote...

It makes them look more like natural forces of nature, apart from all the other reasons.

yes offcourse and men looks more like machine and made of stone, have no feeling. what's more on your mide.

No one said men were made of stone and without feeling.

Women are potrayed as forces of nature more than men.  In fact, the manly forces of nature have to do more with strength/ wisdom than women.  Mostly strength, as wisdom can be found in both.

*shrug* I'm a woman and have no problem with female desire demons.  Male desire demons would be... odd.  Especially a desire demon that is POSESSING A MALE AT THE TIME.  I can only think of two offhand (though I'm sure there's another I'm forgetting somewhere) - one posessing Connor and one posessing a male templar.   And Kitty, actually, who is defined as being female by the girl.  The undefined ones are trying to posess men/ boy, and thus would be female..  what's the problem here?

I was only trying to provoke Derengard there.

And yes women are potrayed as forces of nature, in fact during the 1800 many men doctors belivde that to be a fact, and in there belive men was standig 4 logic, science and civilisation. women was the oppesite nature, myth and the wild. this was something that many belived during the 1700 - 1800, and long in the 1900 woman hade to fight 4 there right to vote, have a job.

Think about it. The myth and symbols we uses to that have their roots from 1700- 1800, and if you looking at that way, well then you got an underlying message.

[MatronAdena]

also I want to sight that in Thadian lore, some of the most iconic, and powerful figures have been female...from Andraste, to the female chevaliers, the silent sisters, Ferelden alone over all is pretty gender neutral when it comes to ...well , anything....
And again my first point of them just using archtypes from mythos

and It does warm my heart to see that alot of the women here have common sense and don't fall into that " everything is sexist" crap they force feed us as little girls

Modifié par MatronAdena, 03 janvier 2010 - 10:31 .

[Truncated Flea]

MatronAdena wrote...

hmm. desire demon....tied into the ideas of sirens, succubus etc and the countless other myths revolving around lust, which have almost always been represented by a female like form. In that light I see nothing remotely sexist or disturbing by the desire demon, I see a mythological arch type.

So the fact that female sexuality has a long history of demonisation in a number of cultures isn't sexist...? Drawing from a sexist trope doesn't mean it isn't problematic.


That said: to the OP, I can see why your girlfriend might be bothered if she just saw those clips, but in the context of the game it's not really as bad as it might seem. DA:O does a lot better than most games when it comes to female representation. Most of the female characters don't exist for the sole purpose of showing off pixelated T&A, and the Lady of the Forest, while nude, isn't a sexualised being. She doesn't wear clothing because of what she is, but she isn't there to hit on your character or make lewd comments.

[Jestert]

Sandiz83 wrote...

After have played this game in some weeks now, it' all ways make me wounder when i encounter a demon or somekinde of nature spirit (think the the lady in the wolf*s den)?

My girl friend saw me playing and was furius about the nudeness or sexism in the game. And i have to agree, many games out the are sexist.

Does someone feeling deferent tham me or do you agree on this??

I think you just answered your own question.  you are playing the game, not your GF. 

[Sandiz83]

Sylph_14 wrote...

Sandiz83 wrote...

Sylph_14 wrote...

Blood flying everywhere, the occasional head rolling around, the ability to massacre the innocent...

... and people still get offended by breasts? Oi...

Not to mention, why would supernatural creatures care about something as silly as modesty?

This is a game, you play it becous you like the story, like movies you like them cous the story apeel to you or have something to say to you. anyway... books, movies and even game are a reflection of the real world. you can't get away from that.

Look at "Transformers 2" there som sexism there to arcordin to some, but that that i whink about are the two twin robots, (the voius acting was doen by some colored men), and Mikel bay did get some heavy critics becous thoes robots. and some even said that it was raisist, but that is an other discustion. i hope you got my piont any how?

I'm not really seeing any point. Having some near nude women in the game does not make it sexist against women anymore than rescuing all those men in their tightie-whities from Howe's dungeon makes it sexist against men.

If the game portrayed a majority of it's female characters as weak and unable to fend for themselves, then a sexism argument might have some merit. Of course, that's clearly not the case.

Never seen Transformers, so no idea what that example is about.

Ok, aren't women weak in other rpg... am not sure about dragon age. but if you look at the original dungeuns and dragons the women hade lest piont in strength, but get more in som other atribute. And they are not unabke to fend 4 themselvs. But that was not what am debating.

the piont is: that some near nude women does make it sexist, it's a small (as litle) message going out there.

and do not see Transformers thoese are bad movies lol

[Whisa]

Sandiz83 wrote...


Ok, aren't women weak in other rpg... am not sure about dragon age. but if you look at the original dungeuns and dragons the women hade lest piont in strength, but get more in som other atribute. And they are not unabke to fend 4 themselvs. But that was not what am debating.

the piont is: that some near nude women does make it sexist, it's a small (as litle) message going out there.

and do not see Transformers thoese are bad movies lol

Nude women does not make it sexist.

You have multiple instances of caged, nude men.  Is it sexist against men?  You have multiple instances of men being totally posessed by their desires.  Sexists against men?  You have multiple instances of women dominating the government (ala chantry mothers).  That means men are being pushed into submission, right?

Sexism goes far deeper than "lol she's nekkid!  BOOOBSSSSSSSS"

[Laurelinde]

I consider myself a feminist, and I'm happily straight, but I thought the Lady of the Forest was really beautiful. She was sensual, certainly, but not overly sexualised IMO. The desire demons are far more sexualised both in their appearance and in their gestures, but that is part and parcel of the whole 'succubus' iconography. It's an old and familiar enough thing in fantasy that I don't notice it so much anymore, as I did when I first started gaming (and before I studied art history. Nakedness gets old fast when you study art.)



Incubi as an alternative, or in addition to the succubi would have been a nice touch, but succubi are more traditional representations of 'pleasures of the flesh', and people get awfully funny about penises. (To be fair, they're not the nicest things to look at, as useful as they are. Sorry, boys.) You can generally get away with boobs a lot more easily, and even with a fully 'nude' woman the particularly significant bits are more easily hidden.



Totally agree about the manwalk on female characters though, yipes!

[MatronAdena]

well what Im trying to get at is...



Cultrually in most western cultures ( before the invasion of Christianity and expansion of Roman ideals) women were nature....we were very often chieftains, mystics, we were most often the primary land owner, many times When married, a male was under his Wifes family/clans thumb and actually some of the most fearsome military generals in early Western history have been women... Women Were creators, we were seen as tied much closer to the earth, we held influence and power...we " in the celt side" were the ones who braught the book of knowledge to humanity " well that was Aife, but again a woman"



When early Christianity came into europe, it did not pose much of a problem, but once rome became ruled by an emperor subservient to the pope, and forced conversions became the nrom, the women with as much power and mystic standings became seen as " threads of the heathens that needs cut" so demonizing powerful females as incubus, and witches became a tool to try and break up the social structures of the " barbarian tribes" and easier convert them as their structures collapsed. Then later this continued as a way to keep people in check.



But the ideas, as we see In DA with some of the choices of a female being a primal force far far predate the ironage, the bronzeage...and depending on how far back you want to go...may even be much much older than humanity itself.

[Sandiz83]

Jestert wrote...

Sandiz83 wrote...

After have played this game in some weeks now, it' all ways make me wounder when i encounter a demon or somekinde of nature spirit (think the the lady in the wolf*s den)?

My girl friend saw me playing and was furius about the nudeness or sexism in the game. And i have to agree, many games out the are sexist.

Does someone feeling deferent tham me or do you agree on this??

I think you just answered your own question.  you are playing the game, not your GF. 

Well she saw me playing it, and was mad about it, not on me but that thay potraid woman like that. we hade a discussion about it. And it's not only dragon age that make this "error". take other rpg or GTA series. what ever its there, Tomb Raider anyone???

i just brouth it up here becaus am bord to night and whanted some debate.

[Truncated Flea]

Sandiz83 wrote...

the piont is: that some near nude women does make it sexist, it's a small (as litle) message going out there.

Female nudity isn't sexist in itself, it all depends on how it's handled. I can see why someone might be bothered by the fact that every desire demon is an almost-naked woman (straight women and queer men like fanservice too! or so I hear), but I personally think that's far outweighed by the positive representation women get in the game so it's probably not worth getting too upset about.