277 réponses à ce sujet

[Digital Supremacy]

Ah gotta love society, the very sight of a breast causes an uproar... wonder where the day where nudity was natural and a form a art went... now its like..

Breasts*censored!* any suggestion of nudity *censored!* but its- *CENSORED!!!* its ar-*NO CENSORED!!!!!* wh-*Censored censored censored!!*



I blame America, :3 in Europe, its all, nudity? yays! here look at this HUGE display of male genitalia! breasts? oh here is a few hundred calenders of them!!! oh and here is some nude playing cards! Naked statues! here have a million of them!!! porno mags, Take a look for your self! dozens at every magazine stand, all in perfect view! They even have sex pose cards and even sex poses in the form of paintings on a few hundred year or so old ruins!! o.0

Just doesn't make much sense to me... lol. When in Rome do as the Romans do anyone?



I for one could care less about nudity in a game of both genders, as an artist i consider the human anatomy just another form of art and not pornographic material... so yeah... *shrugs*

[BHRamsay]

This will not doubt have been pointed out already but all the times you encounter desire demons, they are in the company of or are manipulating the minds of males.



It is not unreasonable to assume this is the reason they all look alike.



Even Kitty from Stone Prisoner was imprisoned by the wizard Wilhelm before taking on a form most pleasing to the little girl, a cat.

[TheGreenLion]

I for one did not find them attractive anyway. It's not the OPs fault for this posting, it's his mind-controlling, jealous-of-anything-she-thinks-might-give-him-a-boner-and-it-ain't-her fool of a girlfriend. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one....he has been maliciously influenced.
1. Big funky horns
2. Anime hair and face
3. Tails
4. Purple skin
5. Strange...pants?
6. Clawed hands 'n' feet
7. Just creepy
How can that be attractive...oh, the boobs. Nevermind, that makes up for it.

[SusanStoHelit]

CREinstein wrote...

A Recent Study showed girl gamers are more intense, spend more time, and are more willing to pay for extra stuff than male gamers, aka they are more likely to buy DLC, more likely to buy gold from gold farmers, and are more likely to spend more time per a day on average than a male player will.


I will not disagree with showing the gals some lovin...

Thank you Einstein, a man of true genius. Just for that, I love you too.

Edit: Oh, and to the person who said that the only nudity is in the sex scene - well I can only assume based on all this that you're American. Because where I live (no offence) you're not naked if you have underwear on. Scantily clad - yes - but not naked. There is no nudity in this game at all.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 04 janvier 2010 - 07:33 .

[AtreiyaN7]

The female demons are desire demons, therefore they presumably take the form of something that the male player (since I can only assume that it's expected that most players are generally male) finds desirable, ie., a mostly nude female demon. I'd prefer a hot, mostly naked male incubus though, (but I'm female ).

[bunnie.riane]

Damn them for having almost nude women.
Let's just make it fully nude and get it over with.
I don't believe in doing anything half-ass damnit.

Couldn't help it

But anyway, I'm a girl and would much rather look at a pretty/sexy female desire demon than a male one.
I dunno, I may be sexist against my own gender, but hey, girls are hot. That's what we do and we're good at it
And, after re-reading this, I feel I should point out that I am very much straight. But I think it would be weird to see a guy trying to seduce in a way that a girl is so much better at doing.

Bah, I give up. It made sense in my mind

[Sandiz83]

OnionXI wrote...

I wonder if your girlfriend put you up to making this post. Like, was she standing over your shoulder as you poorly typed it out?

You gave two examples of PARTIAL female nudity because they are to my knowledge the only ones in the game besides the Broodmother and sex scenes. Big deal. The depictions are very tame.

I think BioWare was extremely tasteful when it came to females in Dragon Age. Their armor is protective and practical unlike pretty much any other game. Maybe show your girlfriend some of the heavily armored Ferelden women.

If you want to see sexism and objectification of women just go look at some mods but as far as the actual game goes I don't see it.

Well she saw one of the demon, and wasafended by it yes. but me and GF did talk about that. I we came to a conclution that many games are sexist, it was not only Dragon Age. But i admit i wrot as i wrote in the my first post to provoce.

so she was not standing over my shoulder, i did it out of free will, cous i like debatin like this. It's like ligthin a fire you

[elys]

Squiggles1334 wrote...

Shamagar wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

 In all seriousness, if your GF like that now, find another one dude trust me.

This statement was full of pure win.

I disagree, Sandiz83 probably doesn't need us telling him how to manage his love life.

I agree with Sandiz83.
Although Maviarab has a good point

More "seriously" since you ask for debate:
Ask your girlfriend if she would have even noticed the demon if she was wearing clothes. I guess not.
So the problem for her is not about the demon being a female, but more about an almost naked woman
A real sexist question would have been to ask why the demon is "female" as if only females can be evil. No matter if she wears clothes or not.

As for almost nudity, your girlfriend is wrong, there is also almost naked male creature in the game, so Dragon Age is not only about half-naked females.

Concerning games generally, I would agree there is a problem over the proportion of male/female nudity representation.
I don't mean in the sens that there is too much female nudity. I mean in the sens that male nudity does not seem to be yet accepted or wanted either by the videogame industry or the players.
It's also easier to make an almost naked female by covering genitalias subtily since there is not really a big difference in shape, than covering a hanging (or erecting) penis in 3D

Modifié par elys, 04 janvier 2010 - 10:38 .

[T0paze]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

T0paze wrote...

I guess that's because the majority of Dragon Age players are men. The same goes for CRPGs in general. Gotta cater to the needs of the target audience. It's not personal, Sonny, it's strictly business. Want to have 'almost' nude muscular men all over the place? Simple. Buy CRPGs more often. 

What part of: 43% of their target demographic are female did you not understand?

First of all, where did you get that figure?

[Xandurpein]

T0paze wrote...

SusanStoHelit wrote...

T0paze wrote...

I guess that's because the majority of Dragon Age players are men. The same goes for CRPGs in general. Gotta cater to the needs of the target audience. It's not personal, Sonny, it's strictly business. Want to have 'almost' nude muscular men all over the place? Simple. Buy CRPGs more often. 

What part of: 43% of their target demographic are female did you not understand?

First of all, where did you get that figure?

I haven't seen the figures, but I must admit that just looking at the people posting on this forum, there are a LOT of female gamers here, and good for you might I add. Now pick any  forum for a major game (other than all Sims clones) and I doubt there would be as many active female posters as here. So yes, I can believe the numbers.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 04 janvier 2010 - 10:59 .

[PrinceOfFallout13]

i sense a lot of hipocresy here



violence = Awesome

Nudity= Ban the game



pathetic

[BHRamsay]

Depictions of females have always been a point of contention and not just in games.



Females, like everyone else, want to be perceived in the best possible light and thus any depiction which does not follow that rote pathway will be, by and large, unacceptable.



We all love flawed characters until that character is seen as reflection of us or those we hold dear, then those flaws we loved so well become an ugly attack on our selves and our chosen lifestyles.



Regardless of race, gender or cultural background, if a protagonist isn't a shining paragon embodying every positive quality while having no negative aspects then the knives will be out.

[Ratnix]

T0paze wrote...

SusanStoHelit wrote...

T0paze wrote...

I guess that's because the majority of Dragon Age players are men. The same goes for CRPGs in general. Gotta cater to the needs of the target audience. It's not personal, Sonny, it's strictly business. Want to have 'almost' nude muscular men all over the place? Simple. Buy CRPGs more often. 

What part of: 43% of their target demographic are female did you not understand?

First of all, where did you get that figure?

I haven't seen figures lately, but that is about what I read a few years ago.

But what people aren't including with that figure is that most of the games that women play are casual games.
Stuff like what you get on Neopets, all those free stupid games that people play to kill time.

Yes there are plenty of hardcore female gamers out there, and as this latest generation gets older, more of them are starting to appear, but for now, most of them are casual game type players.

[T0paze]

Yep, that's what I was talking about.

In my post, I was talking about CRPGs. There's a huge difference between saying that 43% of gamers are women and saying that 43% of CRPG players (i.e. the target audience of Dragon Age) are women. I'm not sure about exact figures, but I'm pretty sure that, at least for now, women prefer casual games (the vast majority of casual gamers are women) and, to some extent, MMORPG (some 20%, maybe a bit more). Dragon Age, however, belongs to neither of these groups, as it's a single-player CRPG.

Modifié par T0paze, 04 janvier 2010 - 03:50 .

[Sialater]

I'm just trying to figure out the outrage in the first place. For every desire demon, you have two heavily armored women in platemail. Or does Ser Cauthrien not count?

[Joshd21]

I love the way Bioware did this and I'm not being sarcastic. Demons are supposed to be full of sin and straying you away from the light with all the naughty things have to offer. It's only fitting the female demons have a body to match this.

You have to admit, it does makes them more appealing and easier to evil it. Of course it never hurt's to throw a few half naked women into demon shape. I for one, have no complaint. I would rather talk to the demon as she is, then have her some unholy disgusting creature like the dark spawn.

It's easy on the eyes, and pretty enjoyable.

[T0paze]

Hmm, now that you mention it, I must admit didn't find Desire Demons in DAO even remotely appealing. Actually, they're disgusting, naked or not. Their body is good, true, and facial features are nice, too, but those horns and some skin discoloration which was probably intended to resemble livor mortis make them appaling. The purple glow doesn't help one bit, since it's a cold color and makes them even more similar to cadavers.

Modifié par T0paze, 04 janvier 2010 - 04:23 .

[Sabriana]

I had no problem with the desire demons being female, because their targets were male, even though one was just a little male. Oh yeah, and the kitty cat, but kitties appeal to little girls and little boys.

Where I come from, nudity and mild sex doesn't even raise an eyebrow, but violence raises a hailstorm.

Those who wish to read up on the female/male gamer percentages - google is your friend. Just type in "female gamer statistics" and you'll get an education. And perhaps it will compel you to leave 1989 and step up to us in 2010.

As far as equality is concerned, we women have fought an uphill battle for centuries. It's not easy to wipe out stereotypes, even though in the middle ages countless women lost their lives in a most brutal fashion because of suspicion of consorting with an incubus/demon/devil of the male kind.

That said, the only thing that offended me greatly, and I still get very angry about is the line "I swear, I'm the bravest one here. And I'm a woman." Spoken by the woman PC right before the joining. I sincerely hope that incredibly demeaning line sprung from a man, and not from a woman. Simply because a woman should know better.

[T0paze]

Those who wish to read up on the female/male gamer percentages - google is your friend. Just type in "female gamer statistics".

No problem, I just did. The ratio is ~60/40 in the US (not the entire world, mind you). Now, does that have anything to do with the target audience of Dragon Age? Like I said, it's not the overall statistics we're discussing here. Women dominate the casual game market (things like Zuma etc.) and tend to play MMO increasingly more often, but Dragon age is neither a casual game, nor an MMORPG.

Modifié par T0paze, 04 janvier 2010 - 05:06 .

[Sabriana]

There are no conclusive stats out yet for DA:O, because the number arch from 30 up to 45 %. The consoles seem to throw a monkey wrench into the counting machines

Gamespot, as well as Eurogamer had articles about the ratio for DA:O and some others as well. One of them touted that 28% of the console DA:O gamers are women, but that this is totally out of whack and somewhat of a non-statistic because of the PC.

Women gamer numbers keep on growing, and companies that realize that make out like kings. Because we have PC's, and go to work and have money too, you know.

[eschilde]

That said, the only thing that offended me greatly, and I still get very angry about is the line "I swear, I'm the bravest one here. And I'm a woman." Spoken by the woman PC right before the joining. I sincerely hope that incredibly demeaning line sprung from a man, and not from a woman. Simply because a woman should know better.

Huh, I thought it was "I'm the bravest man here, and I'm a woman," or some such. Not sure if that's better, but I didn't find it offensive since it was clearly meant to be a put-down comment spoken by a certain kind of character. I don't find depictions of women in Dragon Age offensive, even the desire demons, because for one thing, there's lots of representation of empowered women in Dragon Age, and secondly, although it's a modern game, it's a story set in a medieval aged fantasy land. The fact that there are so many female soldiers and warrior types is fairly impressive as is; in a lot of armies female soldiers were at huge risk (possibilities of rape and pregnancy, causing problems due to romances with other soldiers, etc.) ...



I thought it was pretty obvious that the desire demons had some influences from succubi, which I can't really fault given that they are desire demons. It's not like there are no male demons, and given that there are time constraints on releasing a game I am not surprised, nor really upset, that there's only one model for desire demons. There's also only one model for children of each gender, one model for pride demons, etc. I don't find the desire demon attractive, but it is pretty cool to look at, which I can also say for revenants and the pride demon, and the sloth demon. Besides, do spirits even have genders? It could just be a manifestation of what they think they are supposed to look like.



Anora and Cauthrien have very powerful female roles, and the Chantry is led by female leadership. It's not like women aren't empowered in this game. Plus there are legendary women like Aveline and Andraste (although Andraste was more of a typical beautiful heroine) in Thedas culture.



Given that women have other options of power, would you expect more of them to go the warrior route? Think about the Circle of Magi, for instance. You don't see any female templars (which isn't to say there aren't any, just that you don't see them), but they have the opportunity to rise much higher in the Chantry without having to deal with lyrium and physical training.

[Sialater]

Templars are always male, Priests are always female (unless you're in Haven).

[Herr Uhl]

Sialater wrote...

Templars are always male, Priests are always female (unless you're in Haven).

Or Tevinter.

They have an antipope of sorts I gathered.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 04 janvier 2010 - 05:36 .

[eschilde]

Sialater wrote...

Templars are always male, Priests are always female (unless you're in Haven).

Priests are always female, yes, but are templars always male? I may be wrong, my reading of codex entries hasn't been very thorough, but it's not that females can't become templars, is it? You can spec a female warrior to become a templar, so it seems they can learn the skills (although given the ability to spec certain people certain ways that may not be the most accurate description)

[AtreiyaN7]

eschilde wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Templars are always male, Priests are always female (unless you're in Haven).

Priests are always female, yes, but are templars always male? I may be wrong, my reading of codex entries hasn't been very thorough, but it's not that females can't become templars, is it? You can spec a female warrior to become a templar, so it seems they can learn the skills (although given the ability to spec certain people certain ways that may not be the most accurate description)

Given the celibacy angle, perhaps the Chantry does bar women from becoming templars? I think it's quite likely that any female warrior could learn the skills however. It would be silly to think that templar skills themselves were gender-specific after all (in fact, my Dalish warrior picked up Templar as her second spec after Champion).