277 réponses à ce sujet

[TheDauntless]

Purdicus wrote...

I read recently that some 43% of gamers are women, and I'd bet my quarterly bonus that DA:O has a higher percentage than that. Also, similar stats for older vs. younger. So first of all, don't assume the VAST majority of gamers are young males. Also, older females make or veto the VAST majority of household purchase decisions. Ignore them at your peril.

Agreed. I'm certain they know it.

But I think BioWare's perception is that female gamers will "tolerate more" or "complain less" against old stereotypes that undermine women, as opposed to say, fanboys who always freak out at the thought of an incubus or any male character whose sexuality would be right in their faces. This is not to say that female gamers aren't speaking up enough. Instead, the fanboy longings are given too much indulgence.

I'll give BioWare a little credit. They're active game-changers in some, if not all aspects. Few other video-game brands have products which provoke as much thought on societal issues as theirs do. But out of all of them BioWare does seem to be challenging itself with the risk of raising its audience's expectations at each turn, thus knowingly setting their own bar much higher than others would feel comfortable dealing with in their shoes. Even so, BioWare has not been progressing as well they should. Most of them want to and try to, but on the issue of sex and gender-portrayals BioWare has actually gone backwards. And that has to do with catering to fanboys first and foremost.

Ultimately I didn't have a problem with the Lady of the Forest because she was a singular character, strong,  wise, beautiful and unavailable to fanboys who only judge females by how much they may or may not want to screw them. However the concept of succubi(no matter how they're re-named) without any incubi alongside them is a double-standard which is long past tired.

Modifié par TheDauntless, 04 janvier 2010 - 06:04 .

[elys]

TheDauntless wrote...
... However the concept of succubi(no matter how they're re-named) without any incubi alongside them is a double-standard which is long past tired.

I agree with you on that point as it is probably the reason why there is only a succubus in DAO, or sexy females in other games. And I wish there was more variation in creations not tied to the "old cliches".

However, I do not think that virtual worlds whatever the media they are using  (games, books, movies,etc..) have to be "morally balanced" on whatever subject including sexism, nor they have to be mirroring the real world morality.

If an author wanna describe a world where slavery is a good thing, where free killing is honorable, or where females, males, qunari or dogs are just sexual object, and whatever other weird thing you find despicable in real life,  then he should be able to do so without worrying about being burn alive like a witch.

I'm really exasperated about so called "equality, morality like" association, group or peoples who have nothing better to do than trying to impose their lifeway to others who do not share their view, by using censorship, mass-media manipulation or alarmism against FICTIONAL CONTENTS who are PURELY IMAGINATIVE and DO NOT HARM ANYBODY.

Modifié par elys, 04 janvier 2010 - 07:09 .

[RPGmom28]

I'm not ready to go storming the castle with torches or anything, but I would love to see an incubus or two thrown in there.

[elys]

RPGmom28 wrote...

I'm not ready to go storming the castle with torches or anything, but I would love to see an incubus or two thrown in there.

I think that would a good addition into one of the DLC. Although I'm not sure they wanna model and texture a incubus just for that  , but that would be worth to be included in an expansion where it would be used more.

Modifié par elys, 04 janvier 2010 - 08:02 .

[Prolefeed]

Someone mentioned the armor, and I just have to throw in a huge "Yeah!" My Rogue Dalish Elf almost drove me up the wall, running about with her entire abdomen exposed as if no one's ever going to try to stab her in the stomach!! Seriously?



All the guys, even Zevran, who is probably the closest the game gets to female fanservice, have practical clothes that make sense for what they do. And then you have Morrigan running around holding her boobs with string, all the female mages in robes that look too tight for them to breathe deeply, and the female armors that expose things like cleavage and midriff. It's an /armor/! Those are exactly the parts it's supposed to cover! Unless, of course, the Darkspawn and such are supposed to be distracted by her hotness or something.

[Sialater]

Don't look at me, my mage was an Arcane Warrior. She got the Blood Dragon Armor soonest.

[ReubenLiew]

Make em like Slaanesh daemons then. A true hemaphrodite, with a chest on one side and a breast on the other.

Only problem is trying to get past GW's IP hound dogs.

[Archonsg]

Prolefeed wrote...

Someone mentioned the armor, and I just have to throw in a huge "Yeah!" My Rogue Dalish Elf almost drove me up the wall, running about with her entire abdomen exposed as if no one's ever going to try to stab her in the stomach!! Seriously?

Which is why I love to refer peeps to this lil artwork which gives me chuckle when I first saw it.



Thus even with Lelianna and Zhevran, I do make sure they have at least 38 str to at least wear some decent armor that actually looks like something one would wear into battle.  I have posted a screenie on the "best screenshot" thread though here's a link for those who want to take a look at it. 

picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QBGDly4KkSaULBFDE9-A0A

Modifié par Archonsg, 04 janvier 2010 - 10:46 .

[elys]

What's ironic about the picture is that the 2 "classic armored" women are wearing heavy armor, the kind of armor your wear as a knight on a horse, or the one you wear in big mass zerg fight on the field where big protection matter as much as dexterity and flexibility.
But in the picture context, the chainmail bikini warrior can without even the slight difficulty outrun them if she wish to escape.
And if she wish to fight, she can easily dodge them, push them from behind and they will both fall heavily on the floor with a hard time getting up again, and then finally get owned by the lonely sexy armored girl

Also If I was one of the 2 knights, I would suspect some kind of invisible magical field of protection against physical damage from someone so eager to fight using so little standard protection

Modifié par elys, 04 janvier 2010 - 10:50 .

[Archonsg]

That is assuming she is able to dodge wearing those stillettoes, much less run in them.

[elys]

Archonsg wrote...

That is assuming she is able to dodge wearing those stillettoes, much less run in them.

That's true! But well she is blonde

Modifié par elys, 04 janvier 2010 - 10:52 .

[SusanStoHelit]

Yeah, massive plate on a foot soldier? Get real, never happened, never would happen, never could happen. So that makes as little sense as the skimpy dalish armour or the mage robes. I have no problem with the armour/robes being attractive looking instead of 'practical' looking. It's a game, not real life.

I don't object to the nudity, there isn't any. I also don't object to the scantily clad desire demons - I just object to them all being female. And for those who said they change form to suit. Okay. That means the one seducing the templar should be female. Cool. So why, when my female elven mage went into the Fade to free Conor (with no male party member with her, so don't advance that argument) was the desire demon there still female?

They could have made a male desire demon. They could even have covered up the lower bits (as they did with the female demon) so there would be even less problem with 'nudity'. But they didn't.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 04 janvier 2010 - 11:39 .

[DPSSOC]

SusanStoHelit wrote...
I don't object to the nudity, there isn't any. I also don't object to the scantily clad desire demons - I just object to them all being female. And for those who said they change form to suit. Okay. That means the one seducing the templar should be female. Cool. So why, when my female elven mage went into the Fade to free Conor (with no male party member with her, so don't advance that argument) was the desire demon there still female?

Perhaps because that was how the demon originally appeared to Connor and since it is still connected to Connor it is somewhat bound by his perception?

Here's something to think about though.  Rage, Sloth, and Pride Demons are portrayed as male, the ones you speak with have male voices if they aren't male in appearance, while Desire Demons are female.  Perhaps Bioware was attempting to make a commentary on who suffers most from these failings.

[TheDauntless]

Prolefeed wrote...

Someone mentioned the armor, and I just have to throw in a huge "Yeah!" My Rogue Dalish Elf almost drove me up the wall, running about with her entire abdomen exposed as if no one's ever going to try to stab her in the stomach!! Seriously?

All the guys, even Zevran, who is probably the closest the game gets to female fanservice, have practical clothes that make sense for what they do. And then you have Morrigan running around holding her boobs with string, all the female mages in robes that look too tight for them to breathe deeply, and the female armors that expose things like cleavage and midriff. It's an /armor/! Those are exactly the parts it's supposed to cover! Unless, of course, the Darkspawn and such are supposed to be distracted by her hotness or something.

They bugged me a lot too. Some of those female outfits were not even functional. It shouldn't be that hard to make attractive unisex outfits.  Have them cover-up or expose themselves in equal measures.

I don't object to the nudity, there isn't any. I also don't object to
the scantily clad desire demons - I just object to them all being
female. And for those who said they change form to suit. Okay. That
means the one seducing the templar should be female. Cool. So why, when
my female elven mage went into the Fade to free Conor (with no male
party member with her, so don't advance that argument) was the desire
demon there still female?

I have to suggest that the desire demon who seduced the templar need not be female(and or the templar need not be male), but ultimately I'm onboard with what was there because the delightfully twisted scene had me cackling at how perfect it was. It really fell together.

Agree with you about the one in the Fade. But I think if we were to look hard enough some would argue that the demon's gender ultimately stemmed from Connor's possible traits, not those of our PC's, nor that of any mage npc we send in. The kid's gender and (likely)eventual sexuality would be a convenient excuse, but it does stand up.

Desire demons are meant to denote sex as a temptation into sins or crimes in DA, and very often where sex is concerned the mainstream audience tends to demand a female component no matter what the cost. Why? Because audiences pretend their heads would explode if a male desire demon can proposition us, because then there'd be sexuality in words, gestures, and implications...even if not by action...that could still exclude any female components which a great deal of people are conditioned to accept as mandatory in these situations. That, and somehow the concept of a male "lowering himself" to something so typically regarded as "feminine + degrading" is an idea which people often abuse for disparagement.

Modifié par TheDauntless, 05 janvier 2010 - 12:36 .

[SusanStoHelit]

Dauntless, that was exactly my point. Thank you.

Desire demons, yes. Scantily clad or even naked, yes. I'm okay with that.

But either make some of them male and some of them female. Or make them change according to the gender of the individual they are 'seducing' or attempting to seduce.

Edit: Oh, and while we're at it I completely agree with what another poster said. For heaven's sake get rid of my female pcs having to walk like Sylvester bloody Stallone on steroids. For crying out loud!

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 05 janvier 2010 - 12:32 .

[Kohaku]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't like chain mail bikinis. However, every time I play a game I always wonder where is the proper support for their upper body. That boggles my mind. That and the high heeled shoes.

[Tirigon]

bunnie.riane wrote...

Damn them for having almost nude women.
Let's just make it fully nude and get it over with.
I don't believe in doing anything half-ass damnit.

Couldn't help it

But anyway, I'm a girl and would much rather look at a pretty/sexy female desire demon than a male one.
I dunno, I may be sexist against my own gender, but hey, girls are hot. That's what we do and we're good at it
And, after re-reading this, I feel I should point out that I am very much straight. But I think it would be weird to see a guy trying to seduce in a way that a girl is so much better at doing.

Bah, I give up. It made sense in my mind

It does make sense. I agree with this, lol. And no, I´m not a girl, but male. Nevertheless, I think female nudity is more attractive than male. I find men more "attractive" (though not sexually) when they wear nice clothes.

Example?


A LOT better than if he was nude. (Ignore the blood, I didn´t find a pic whitout it that qickly)

[Tirigon]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I'd be lying if I said I didn't like chain mail bikinis. However, every time I play a game I always wonder where is the proper support for their upper body. That boggles my mind. That and the high heeled shoes.

High heeled armor ftw! It´s great to fight in, you should try it out! And you can step your opponent on the foot - that will really hurt, hehe.

But I think there should be some shoes that are not high-heeled. Because it doesn´t fit to everyone. I´d love to let my elfen mage wear Chucks and a mini-skirt:innocent:

[JabberJaww]

Any thoughts the game is sexist disappear for me everytime Ser Cauthrien beats me to abloody pulp with her big sword.

[Kohaku]

JabberJaww wrote...

Any thoughts the game is sexist disappear for me everytime Ser Cauthrien beats me to abloody pulp with her big sword.

She could take on the Arch Demon and win. I'm sure of that. She's the reason I gave my new character a two handed weapon.

[Tirigon]

JabberJaww wrote...

Any thoughts the game is sexist disappear for me everytime Ser Cauthrien beats me to abloody pulp with her big sword.

Ser Cauthrien is emancipated. She shows us what happens if people with equal rights try to fight for their equality.

[InvaderErl]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

T0paze wrote...

I guess that's because the majority of Dragon Age players are men. The same goes for CRPGs in general. Gotta cater to the needs of the target audience. It's not personal, Sonny, it's strictly business. Want to have 'almost' nude muscular men all over the place? Simple. Buy CRPGs more often. 

What part of: 43% of their target demographic are female did you not understand?

I read a similiar study and it pointed out that the majority of that figure was limited to casual gamers (The Sims, Wii, etc.)

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 janvier 2010 - 12:57 .

[InvaderErl]

double.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 janvier 2010 - 12:56 .

[SusanStoHelit]

JabberJaww wrote...

Any thoughts the game is sexist disappear for me everytime Ser Cauthrien beats me to abloody pulp with her big sword.

I don't think anyone says the game is sexist. I certainly didn't. My female pcs can all kick butt in their various ways, we have strong female npcs as well as male ones and so on. Bioware have done a damn fine job of making the game great - and maintaining a strong gender balance.

The argument is merely with some modelling/graphical issues. Or it is for me.

As a straight female gamer, I'd rather look at a male figure who is supposedly trying to seduce me than a female one. If desire demons came in both male and female flavours, some of each, no prob - this one is male, that one is female regardless. If they change gender so that male characters get a female one and vice versa, also no problem. The best solution would be to have them try one form, then change to the other if it doesn't work (this would work for all people of all sexual orientations, regardless of the gender of the character). But when every desire demon is female in form, it is biased. That's what bias is. I'm not saying it's demeaning to women, I'm saying they shouldn't all be female.

And I don't want my female pcs to walk like some street thug - and I wouldn't even if I was male. All my female toons look awful when moving, but particularly my dalish elf female and my elven mage female look bloody ridiculous walking like that. I don't even like it on my male toons. They look like damn gorillas.