26 réponses à ce sujet

[DM_Vecna]

I have no modeling skill but am looking to get two models fixed.

1. http://nwvault.ign.c...d=46806&id=7583
Within this converted nwn2 houses hak there is a house used in both CEP and Worms Arbor Falls that has bad geometry. It is a great house but needs some love. You can see that the two doors have issues. 


2. http://nwvault.ign.c....detail&id=7425
Within this infernal armor hak there is issues with the torso model. When you apply it and then change to another model in the toolset. Parts of the armor persist and can still be seen although you have switched to another part. I am not sure what causes  this. 

Thanks for any help!

[-Paganini-]

I would be glad to help but I am having a problem finding the house in the image above, can you let me know the actual mdl name? Slumrow2 in the hak you linked is an entirely different house. I'm going to look at the second file now.

[Zwerkules]

That model is hardly the only one with bad geometry in that hak. The walkmeshes are also extremely bad.
Converting models from NWN2 to NWN1 is very easy. I have no idea why there are so many parts of the models missing in the CEP. There are also models where parts of the model don't have the right position and appear below ground when you place them.

I think the house you have in your screenshot is from the dock houses, not slumrow.
Replacing that house by the original one from NWN2 would be no problem.

Edit: That building is actually part of a larger building that has been taken apart. The hole in the wall is where the rest of the building was. It would have been a few minutes work to close that gap, and a few more to make a doorway.
Releasing the building as a separate building the way it is is just sloppy work.

I can fix that model for you. The question is, what should be where the gap is, a wall or a doorway?

This is what it looks like with windows and with a second door:



Taking the NWN2 building apart I made this house:

Modifié par Zwerkules, 18 novembre 2012 - 05:49 .

[Zwerkules]

The building you showed is not in the nwn2houses hak but must have been ripped from Lord of Worm's tileset. There will be other buildings next to it closing the gap in the tileset.
LoW must have accidentaly moved some vertices near the door though.

Edit: I had a look at the model in LoW's tileset and saw that this is a corner building, so that doorway would disappear somewhere in the tile next to it. Those are a lot of extra faces that could have been removed because they aren't visible anyway.

Though the building is not in the nwn2houses hak with such a huge gap in it, I still think the author of that hak did a bad job converting those models. Most of them are not in a usable state due to missing parts, bad shadows, bad pwks and model files being more than twice the size they need to have.

Modifié par Zwerkules, 18 novembre 2012 - 07:21 .

[OldTimeRadio]

Impressive work as always, Zwerkules!  Importing models from other sources is (once you reach a certain skill level) generally is pretty easy.  Cleaning them up and optimizing them for NWN takes 95% of the time.  That's the hard part.

In defense of TheGeorge, I don't think he understood modeling enough at that point to identify the problems with what he was creating.  AFAIK, he was mostly a module author.  I'm glad he brought the content into NWN, but I'm also glad that people like you took the time to bring out the best in them.

A model can look beautiful but basically be a poison pill if it's not optimized with NWN in mind.  I'm not saying TheGeorge's are that bad (they're not).  But as a person who has brought a lot of content from other sources into NWN, it's something I'm painfully aware of.  It can happen with "from scratch" models too, just not as often.

[Zwerkules]

You are right, OTR, I shouldn't have said that TheGeorge did a bad job if he lacked the experience, but CEP should have had someone with the experience to fix those models, especially since they claim to have improved them.
I think a team of people who claim to fix content before they add it to the CEP and also act as if the CEP was THE standard hak everybody should use, should at least be able to fix the really bad gaps in models, etc. And they have the cheek to call the project Q team good-for-nothings.

Sorry, I had to get this off my chest. I don't like sloppy work and if people deliver sloppy work they should at least refrain from insulting people who could have done the job ten times better than they have.

[DM_Vecna]

I would vote for walls rather than doors but anything will work. The model was used from LoW's Arbor Falls Player World when I saw that the CEP version had issues. I noticed he was using it and looked there for a working version but his was bugged as well. He just hides that wall very cleverly in his module. Thank you for taking the time to fix this. I love all of your work!!!

As an aside I don't know if you are adding your NWN2 houses from the tile-set by that name to Midevil City one day but if not perhaps you would release them as placeables?

[Zwerkules]

At the moment I have the 14 dock houses as placeables plus 4 more I made from some of those houses. I could add more houses. Some of the temples and bigger houses don't make much sense as a placeable though because they have stairs leading to the doors or walkable roofs and the like which placeables can't have.
If I release them, you'll have to merge 2da files yourself though because there are just too many placeable packs, project Q and the CEP and I don't want to add several versions compatible with one or the other of those haks.

[Invisig0th]

I think at this late stage of the game, having just the fixed placeable model would be fine for almost all authors. If you really wanted to be generous, you could also include a small text file with the appropriate single line entry for placeables.2da. If someone can't manage the actual 2DA merge themselves from there, then they need to go educate themselves on how these things work before proceeding.

Thanks in advance for fixing the models and sharing!

Modifié par Invisig0th, 19 novembre 2012 - 01:09 .

[DM_Vecna]

I agree with invisigoth

[Zwerkules]

Invisig0th wrote...

You could also include a small text file with the appropriate single line entry for placeables.2da. If someone can't manage the actual 2DA merge themselves from there, then they need to go educate themselves on how these things work before proceeding.

I will include a 2da file with the lines for those placeables somewhere at the end, it just won't be compatible with project Q, CEP and other placeable haks. You'll have to merge the 2da file with those other placeable 2das you need.

How do you use these placeables, with placeable doors or with real doors that have the NWN2 size?
I don't know how TheGeorge scaled those models. I made the NWN2 models which have sizes in meter rather than cm 100 times bigger.
If TheGeorge used a different scale, the doors won't fit and I'll have to add versions of the doors, too. Either as placeables or as real doors or both?

Modifié par Zwerkules, 19 novembre 2012 - 03:14 .

[DM_Vecna]

I use real doors for anywhere accessible and placeable doors just for effect when the player cannot get there. AFAIK thegeorge's models had smaller door frames and I just adjust the location of the door to look better when closed(make it so you can see the handle if there is one). When yo uopen them they rotate out of visual range but I can live with that.

[Zwerkules]

I already have NWN2-sized doors which are tileset specific doors for the NWN2 houses tileset. I could add those as generic doors. They would fit the NWN2 buildings but would be too small for standard doorways.
They look like the doors for those NWN2 houses, but are proper doors which work like common doors instead of being just placeables.

I also made a few more houses by taking apart some of the bigger models and closing the gaps with new walls. I've got twenty different dock houses now.

Modifié par Zwerkules, 19 novembre 2012 - 05:50 .

[DM_Vecna]

Whoa, simply amazing!

[Zwerkules]

Would something like this help you, DM_Vecna?

I haven't put the doors in this hak yet, but the 20 buildings work and I tested all their walk meshes.
There's just one small part of one building I have to change. The ground of one doorway is at 0.0 instead of 1.0, so it flickers because it has the same height as the tileset's ground.

[DM_Vecna]

This would be a huge upgrade for me.

[Zwerkules]

I uploaded the first version of this to the vault. I'll probably add a few more buildings to it later.

[henesua]

Wow. Zwerk. Amazing!

[NWN_baba yaga]

looking realy good and nice use of textures:)

[DM_Vecna]

I am consistently amazed and entertained at the content created by this community.

[Zwerkules]

NWN_baba yaga wrote...

looking realy good and nice use of textures:)

The textures may be a problem for some though. I didn't take the buildings apart so different parts of them use different textures. They each use one texture for the whole building which was 1024x1024 and had 16 256x256 textures on it.
When I worked on those textures I changed their size to 2048x248 so the 16 parts of it had a 512x512 size which I usually use for textures.
After I finished work on those textures I didn't reduce their sizes to 1024x1024, so they are still very big and may cause problems on slower computers.
They might still look good enough if they are reduced to 1024x1024.

Modifié par Zwerkules, 22 novembre 2012 - 03:39 .

[NWN_baba yaga]

Textures for nwn2 buildings were clever done imo, just that i didnt like every piece in it. So I like your take much more zwerk. And if i have issues with the 2048 ones... i scale them down and thats it;)

[DM_Vecna]

I have to say I am not seeing any problems in game. I have a fast computer but compared to the buildings in the other hak these seem to provide faster fps.

[Zwerkules]

DM_Vecna wrote...

I have to say I am not seeing any problems in game. I have a fast computer but compared to the buildings in the other hak these seem to provide faster fps.

I haven't checked how big the files of the NWN2 houses in the CEP are, but I guess they are twice or even thrice the size of the ones in my hak. Maybe that's why the use of houses in my hak result in faster fps even if they use bigger textures.

I'll add slum buildings next, but I don't like the texture I made for them for the NWN2 houses tileset, so it will take a while to convert those because I have to work on the texture, too.

[Zwerkules]

Yesterday I noticed that I have never included the slum buildings in the hak and that I only converted three slum buildings while there are five in NWN2. I'll soon upload an updated hak which will have all five slum buildings plus all the rich merchant buildings like these: