189 réponses à ce sujet

[Tallgeese_VII]

They are very tough.. if I have to fix one it will definitely be praetorian though.
Give it more soune, make its melee not stagger, and make it slower... anything will help us.

[Computron2000]

They can be handled but only if the team has the firepower. If not, camping the collectors on larger maps is best. If everyone else sucks and you don't want to suicide, keep running laps to prevent many of the problems that collectors give.

The predatorian is balanced by the fact that they can be flipped on their head and their laser shooting can be stopped by shooting their head. The possessed variety though is really tough and the homing missiles don't help. Harder than the other bosses barring maybe the prime in close combat

The scion is fine if you burst their shoulder lump then shoot them in the head. The possessed scion is much tougher. Bursting their lump is mandatory or you'll spend so muych time shooting them that you get screwed by other mooks when evading the cluster grenades

The collector captains do seem to be about the same level as the marauders (who have always been dangerous). Once either of them burst fire when at close range, you're dead.

The nuke husk and abomination are extremely irritating due to their speed. If you're too close, you get blown up and dot damage so you keep mobing which opens you to fire from the other enemies,

[megabeast37215]

Kenadian wrote...
I know, I regularly play against them. Doesn't change the fact that you won't always be able to counter them. Ever had 3 or 4 (whatever the spawn limit is) Scions launching their stupid ****ing cluster grenades at you? Then they shoot their stunlocking cannon at you to suppress you. Then they shoot their grenades at you again. They carry as much if not more firepower than Atlases, have as much health, bust you out of cover and spawn as frequently as Phantoms. I dare you to tell me with a straight face there isn't anything wrong with them.

There isn't anything wrong with them

You're trying to engage them from cover... don't do that. That's the game they were designed to counter... go dance around them in VERY close quarters, like how you play a Drellguard. They can't hit you unless you hold still, their shots don't home. Circle strafing even trivializes their cluster grenades...

[Blind2Society]

Air Quotes wrote...

kira28 wrote...

Bioware please listen to airquotes he is having difficulties killing Giant slow moving and predictable giant headed AI enemies. Please make the game easier for him so others dont have to carry him on collector missions!

Yeah, I soloed Gold against the Collectors. Totally woudn't be able to play agaisnt them with a team. Too damn hard. 

kira is apparently one of "those", pay him no mind.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 18 novembre 2012 - 12:54 .

[Cyonan]

My casters tend to fare just fine against the Collectors.

Their two most deadly units, the Scion and Praetorian, can have their damage negated by the ability to take about 3 steps to one side, since neither of their attacks track very well.

The Scion, if you shoot the sac, have no more health than a Brute does(and don't have armour plating that reduces damage taken).

[Rinorim]

Collectors are balanced for weapon heavy classes that can dodge. The turian ghost is a prime example.

Praetorians, they are too fast and too tough, one of these needs to be nerfed, their lasers go through cover and their missles have ridiculous homing capabilities...

Scions are ok, but their blaster is super strong, not to mention the carpet bombing grenades that can own you if you can't dodge. Yes I'm aware that they are weak up close, but usually when you run in close a captain/trooper mows you down.

Seekers have too much health, and I'm not sure I like the whole power cooldown thing, I mean it does virtually nothing against a destroyer/demolisher, but utterly cripples any vanguard.

Troopers/Captains are my biggest complaint, they are stronger and have more health than any other basic troop of any other class. A full power batarian brawler melee will kill any mook in one hit, (almost one hits dragoons, will one hit phantom), but not a possessed captain!!! This is crazy!

Anyways, I think bioware is working on rebalancing them, but overall they are just tilted one direction. Vanguards/power users have a tough time, and weapon users are strong, it's just not very balanced.

In short, I agree with the OP.

[Zero132132]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Kenadian wrote...
I know, I regularly play against them. Doesn't change the fact that you won't always be able to counter them. Ever had 3 or 4 (whatever the spawn limit is) Scions launching their stupid ****ing cluster grenades at you? Then they shoot their stunlocking cannon at you to suppress you. Then they shoot their grenades at you again. They carry as much if not more firepower than Atlases, have as much health, bust you out of cover and spawn as frequently as Phantoms. I dare you to tell me with a straight face there isn't anything wrong with them.

There isn't anything wrong with them

You're trying to engage them from cover... don't do that. That's the game they were designed to counter... go dance around them in VERY close quarters, like how you play a Drellguard. They can't hit you unless you hold still, their shots don't home. Circle strafing even trivializes their cluster grenades...

Love Drellguard against them! It's fun getting the swarms to suicide by approaching and running straight through them.

Still, mathematically, you're actively (as opposed to passively) wrong about their large weak spots compensating for their tankyness, as explained previously.

[IndigoVitare]

Before I start, I'll say this: The factions all have a different gameplay style. Cerberus are about tactical versatile combat, with units similar to the players (snipers, engineers etc); the Geth are tech users, with all sorts of tricks like TC, Combat Drone, Turrets; Reapers are in-your-face aggressive, constantly pushing the player with Brutes and Banshees. Collectors seem to me to be sort of the reverse of the Reapers, locking players down with Scion barrage and Praetorian eyebeams, Seeker Swarms and Webs covering potential exits.

I have absolutely no problem with Praetorians. They're tough, but they're easy to aim at, more predictable than Atlases and tend to draw a lot of fire in any case.

Collector Captains aren't much of an issue, and I think that both them and the Troopers are tougher mainly because the Collectors don't have many units. This may be remedied in the next DLC if they add more enemy units*.

Collector Swarms do need to force a shorter cooldown and either have less health or give more points on killing them.

Scions though are the real problem. They are spawned like ravagers and basically fill the same role: Long range bombardment, forcing players into cover. However, Scions have TWICE as much health, an instant-kill, after-burn that prevents shield regen, an instant-kill, and can be possessed for MORE health and the ability to launch grenades.

They need to lose AT LEAST a quarter of their health, preferably a third, and should have no more than a Prime's armour when possessed. They also need a laser sight like the Ravagers to be a warning.

*I think one of the best ways to balance the Collectors would be to introduce a new unit that fills a similar role to the Scion, but much weaker: The Collector Assassin. When you're out of cover it locks on with a CSR and begins draining your shields/health. If it's only brief it's not a problem, but if you stick around you'll feel the pain.

[Kenadian]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Kenadian wrote...
I know, I regularly play against them. Doesn't change the fact that you won't always be able to counter them. Ever had 3 or 4 (whatever the spawn limit is) Scions launching their stupid ****ing cluster grenades at you? Then they shoot their stunlocking cannon at you to suppress you. Then they shoot their grenades at you again. They carry as much if not more firepower than Atlases, have as much health, bust you out of cover and spawn as frequently as Phantoms. I dare you to tell me with a straight face there isn't anything wrong with them.

There isn't anything wrong with them

You're trying to engage them from cover... don't do that. That's the game they were designed to counter... go dance around them in VERY close quarters, like how you play a Drellguard. They can't hit you unless you hold still, their shots don't home. Circle strafing even trivializes their cluster grenades...

I should clarify. I don't use cover. I haven't for a long long time. Circling and moving around them isn't always possible, either. Scions are the single cheapest part of an otherwise fun faction. I could live with their stupidly high health and their stunlock cannon bull****, but I can't accept the cluster grenade nonsense. The Geth Bomber atleast needs to be close to you and is rather stupidly easy to kill. Scions will launch those at you from across the damn map.

[Rinorim]

Air Quotes wrote...

kira28 wrote...

Bioware please listen to airquotes he is having difficulties killing Giant slow moving and predictable giant headed AI enemies. Please make the game easier for him so others dont have to carry him on collector missions!

Yeah, I soloed Gold against the Collectors. Totally woudn't be able to play agaisnt them with a team. Too damn hard. 

I've soloed gold agains them too... doesn't mean they're not overpowered... soloing is completely different them team playing anyways.

So quit bragging, and go post on some other thread.

[kira28]

Air Quotes wrote...

kira28 wrote...

Bioware please listen to airquotes he is having difficulties killing Giant slow moving and predictable giant headed AI enemies. Please make the game easier for him so others dont have to carry him on collector missions!

Yeah, I soloed Gold against the Collectors. Totally woudn't be able to play agaisnt them with a team. Too damn hard. 

you soloed gold collectors eh?  Hear that bioware the collectors are too difficult for one person to handle by himself!

[MegumiAzusa]

It's interesting how all the Xbox guys where enemies shoot less frequent and are worse in general are all saying how it's fine :3

[Uchimura]

Praetorians are beefy, but still lighter than Banshees from my experience. Feels like it anyway. (from playing plat earlier)

[ToLazy4Name]

kira28 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

kira28 wrote...

Bioware please listen to airquotes he is having difficulties killing Giant slow moving and predictable giant headed AI enemies. Please make the game easier for him so others dont have to carry him on collector missions!

Yeah, I soloed Gold against the Collectors. Totally woudn't be able to play agaisnt them with a team. Too damn hard. 

you soloed gold collectors eh?  Hear that bioware the collectors are too difficult for one person to handle by himself!

Just 'cause you don't agree with him doesn't mean you've gotta be a douche about it. 

[megabeast37215]

Zero132132 wrote...
Would expect that sort of reasoning from PC players, but how do you manage to hit that stuff? Just hipfiring, or do you kind of take your time lining up each shot? Much harder for me, because I have a habit of aiming down the sites in shooters and in this game, that's very bad for headshots.

And no... Possessed Praetorian has 34,920 armor and 15,750 barrier. By comparison (substituting shields where necessary), that's 16,875/11,812 for primes, 16,875/10,125 for Banshees, and 23,000/21,094 for Atlases. Even with a 1.4x multiplier, the effective armor/barriers for the possessed Praetorian is ~24,943 armor and 11,250, a total of 36,193 damage they can take if every single shot is a critical, more than Primes and Banshees without headshot bonuses on either.

Not saying I think they should be nerfed, because I kind of like them, but pretending that bigger weak spots compensates for their ridiculous tankiness is silly if you actually apply some numbers to the issue. Seriously, if every hit is a crit, in general, they're still pretty damned tanky. The only exceptions are the troopers and captains (abominations don't have a large hitbox). Don't forget that there's also no weak spots on the swarms, and they too are oddly tanky as well.

I usually just aim like normal... I feel the spots on Scions/Praetorians are harder to hit with a shotgun... but with all the other guns, I have to problem laying a steady stream of critical hits on them... and I'm not even 1337. If you end up using a Harrier against them... take Barrage Gear, makes a HUGE freakin' difference. Everything becomes a headshot...

Are their armor/barrier figures really that much? Wow... those are some big numbers. I know they can take alot more than the other bosses... but then again, the crit areas are so damn big.

I agree that the swarms could use a fitness nerf... but I really like the rest of the faction the way they are. Their games feel like Chaos and Carnage, and I love that about them...

[Zero132132]

Rinorim wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

kira28 wrote...

Bioware please listen to airquotes he is having difficulties killing Giant slow moving and predictable giant headed AI enemies. Please make the game easier for him so others dont have to carry him on collector missions!

Yeah, I soloed Gold against the Collectors. Totally woudn't be able to play agaisnt them with a team. Too damn hard. 

I've soloed gold agains them too... doesn't mean they're not overpowered... soloing is completely different them team playing anyways.

So quit bragging, and go post on some other thread.

Did you miss the part where the one you're responding to is the one that created the thread stating that they're overpowered? Maybe you just wanted the facepalm to make another appearance in my day, in which case, facepalm thanks you.

[The Titanium Dragon]

Air Quotes wrote...

1. Preatorians are too fast and durable for the damage they do. Even normal one is tougher than Atlas, a lot faster and does a lot of damage. A possesed one is just over the top completely.

They're very strong units, and they move around pretty quickly, but they are extremely predictable and their attacks are all dodgable. The main danger they present is the distraction they pose, as if you get distracted dealing with them, you can easily get tunnel vision and then get flanked.

2. Scions take and do too much damage. The missiles not only take your shields in 1 hit but also stops them from regening. The super accurate grenades are annoying and they can drop them over cover. Screws non dodge classes majorly.  

Meh, I don't really mind them much at all. They're dangerous, sure, but they aren't that hard to deal with.

3. Collector Captains do too much damage and are too accurate. They are tougher Marauders with even more weapon damage

Meh. They're really not that hard to deal with.

4. Too many seeker swarms and the seekers are too tough. Screws power users a lot.

They are avoidable. The main danger is to Vanguards.

5. A major one - Collectors NEED MORE SOUNDS!

Sure why not.

6. There are very few classes that are very effective against the Collectors. Most power users will be screwed. Non dodge classes will be screwed. 

INB4LRN2PL

Learn to play.

Seriously, the collectors are NOT that tough. Your whining about them means you haven't learned how to deal with them. I never considedered them to be that hard of a faction - indeed, in many ways they are the easiest faction to deal with. The praetorians are really the only thing that they have that makes them all that dangerous - sure, scions are mean, but if you stand out in front of any number of similar units you'll die just the same, and scions are big, easy targets. If you get hit by a scion, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Nerfing them would be stupid.

[megabeast37215]

kira28 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

kira28 wrote...

Bioware please listen to airquotes he is having difficulties killing Giant slow moving and predictable giant headed AI enemies. Please make the game easier for him so others dont have to carry him on collector missions!

Yeah, I soloed Gold against the Collectors. Totally woudn't be able to play agaisnt them with a team. Too damn hard. 

you soloed gold collectors eh?  Hear that bioware the collectors are too difficult for one person to handle by himself!

I've never soloed even Silver against Collectors... man do I suck...

[Reaperpoo]

They could do with some more sounds.

[Zero132132]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...
Would expect that sort of reasoning from PC players, but how do you manage to hit that stuff? Just hipfiring, or do you kind of take your time lining up each shot? Much harder for me, because I have a habit of aiming down the sites in shooters and in this game, that's very bad for headshots.

And no... Possessed Praetorian has 34,920 armor and 15,750 barrier. By comparison (substituting shields where necessary), that's 16,875/11,812 for primes, 16,875/10,125 for Banshees, and 23,000/21,094 for Atlases. Even with a 1.4x multiplier, the effective armor/barriers for the possessed Praetorian is ~24,943 armor and 11,250, a total of 36,193 damage they can take if every single shot is a critical, more than Primes and Banshees without headshot bonuses on either.

Not saying I think they should be nerfed, because I kind of like them, but pretending that bigger weak spots compensates for their ridiculous tankiness is silly if you actually apply some numbers to the issue. Seriously, if every hit is a crit, in general, they're still pretty damned tanky. The only exceptions are the troopers and captains (abominations don't have a large hitbox). Don't forget that there's also no weak spots on the swarms, and they too are oddly tanky as well.

I usually just aim like normal... I feel the spots on Scions/Praetorians are harder to hit with a shotgun... but with all the other guns, I have to problem laying a steady stream of critical hits on them... and I'm not even 1337. If you end up using a Harrier against them... take Barrage Gear, makes a HUGE freakin' difference. Everything becomes a headshot...

Are their armor/barrier figures really that much? Wow... those are some big numbers. I know they can take alot more than the other bosses... but then again, the crit areas are so damn big.

I agree that the swarms could use a fitness nerf... but I really like the rest of the faction the way they are. Their games feel like Chaos and Carnage, and I love that about them...

Maybe that's my problem. I always use shotguns.

Anyways, the point is, while they're not as horrible as a lot of folks figure, they're still out of wack with the difficulty system in general. Seriously, no joke, sometimes I think they're easier on Platinum than Gold just because on Platinum, you have less Collector units on the field. They're beatable, but that they are harder than other classes trivializes the challenge system. That's my only real issue with them. They're aggressive, smart, fast, and tanky.

[megabeast37215]

Zero132132 wrote...
Anyways, the point is, while they're not as horrible as a lot of folks figure, they're still out of wack with the difficulty system in general. Seriously, no joke, sometimes I think they're easier on Platinum than Gold just because on Platinum, you have less Collector units on the field. They're beatable, but that they are harder than other classes trivializes the challenge system. That's my only real issue with them. They're aggressive, smart, fast, and tanky.

That is very very true.. I've been saying Collectors Plat is easier than Collectors Gold for some time now. Collectors Silver is pretty much a Gold game, etc.

Aggressive, smart, fast, tanky... CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!!!!

[Computron2000]

Zero132132 wrote...
Anyways, the point is, while they're not as horrible as a lot of folks figure, they're still out of wack with the difficulty system in general. Seriously, no joke, sometimes I think they're easier on Platinum than Gold just because on Platinum, you have less Collector units on the field. They're beatable, but that they are harder than other classes trivializes the challenge system. That's my only real issue with them. They're aggressive, smart, fast, and tanky.

The bolded part is hard to deny objectively. Only those out to boost their ego (with no proof) would say its fine. That said, the best solution would be for the Lobby creation/joining to have an option of "Any except collectors". That should get those who dislike the faction to avoid them. It would also make pugs against collectors less problematic (since many pugs equip nothing and dps is important vs collectors)

[megabeast37215]

Here's something for you guys.

Take an Asari Justicar with just a Paladin, put the Heavy Barrel on it w/ AP mod. Put on Commando Package, Pistol Amp III, Power Amp III or IV, Warp Rounds III or IV....

I don't care if you specced for Pull or the Bubble, Reave is all you need.

Reave everything and then shoot them in their crit areas... come back and tell me how easy they were. The Justicar obliterates Collectors.