189 réponses à ce sujet

[andresft]

It's not about their difficulty level. Back when the Reapers used to be the hardest faction, they were still (IMO) the most fun, or at least a lot of fun. The Collectors are currently the hardest faction, but they're annoying as hell. Medium- and long- range, scions are too lethal. Their ROF is insane, which coupled with crazy damage, makes them more lethal than any other unit out there. Yes, they're not that hard to kill, especially if you get up close and personal, but hey, it's not like it's just a walk in the park if you're at a distance from them and you want to get closer. Like I said, they fire too often and too powerfully.

Also, Collector troopers seem to be the most aggressive trooper units by far, whether because of their melee attack (which seems to be the most lethal) or how quickly they approach you to execute you when you're down.

If those troopers could tone down the whole being angry and evil thing and the Scion cannons were brought down to Ravager or Prime levels, they would still be at least as tough as the Reapers (if not more) and a lot more fun to play against.

[Rebel_Raven]

****ING FIX THE COLLECTORS! THEY ARE MASSIVE BULL**** ON EVEN BRONZE! Scions hit too damn hard, praetorians hit way too goddamn hard, they're stupidly aggressive as an enemy, and make bronze feel like GODDAMN SILVER. BRONZE SHOULD NOT BE THAT GODDAMN DIFFICULT! IT"S BRONZE!! IT IS BRONZE THE EASIEST DIFFICULTY!!

Colectors have always,and still do feel a difficulty above what the match is set to, and it's BS of the highest calibur!

[me0120]

DUE TO THE YELLING IN THE POST ABOVE ME, I BELIEVE WE SHOULD GIVE THE PRAETORIANS THEIR ORIGINAL STRENGTH FROM ME2. Oh and I still miss Harbinger's soothing voice.

[Clearly Balkan]

I don't see a problems with Collectors. They're easier then Geth, that's for sure.

Only nuisance is scion, but even he goes down in few Black Widow shots.

Sorry OP, I don't share your views & don't agree on additional nerf to Collectors.

[Zero132132]

Clearly Balkan wrote...

I don't see a problems with Collectors. They're easier then Geth, that's for sure.

Only nuisance is scion, but even he goes down in few Black Widow shots.

Sorry OP, I don't share your views & don't agree on additional nerf to Collectors.

Additional? What would they be an addition TO, exactly? So far, we've had no nerfs on the Collectors, just one change made to compensate for them accidentally having the Scion's damage applied twice.

[darkpassenger2342]

zero, dont forget they scaled back the praetorian cap on most waves. just sayin

 thats the only other adjustment i can think of, though

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 18 novembre 2012 - 07:52 .

[EvoSigma]

The only real things that annoy me about the collectors are the scions and praetorians. They could leave everything else and I'd be content but I feel those two units in particular gives me headaches... I wish the praetorian's beam wouldn't clip through cover where you could use the "right hand advantage" which is a HUGE advantage over those bulky boss units.

It's what makes bosses from the other factions much more managable aside from the phantom and banshee due to their different combat mechanics.

[sc_ajk29]

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

Well, if it makes you feel better, OP, I agree to all points, though not as fanatically. Scions and Praetorians in particular ****** me off.

^This. And the trooper's CSMG MMMMM and Captain's CAR MMMMM.

[Sable Dove]

The mooks are based on the Reapers, health-wise. Trooper=Cannibal, Captain=Marauder, Abomination>Husk (Abominations have nearly twice the HP, and absolutely no drawbacks).

But Troopers do slightly less damage per shot, and fire much faster (not to mention they're not prone to dropping what they're doing to go eat corpses); Captains fire slightly slower, but do 20-30% more damage than Marauders (and aren't prone to dropping what they're doing to buff troopers); and Abominations explode when killed. They are literally upgraded Husks with absolutely no drawbacks. Plus, they can't be held up by Marauders trying to buff them.

So yeah, the basic troopers are upgraded Reapers. Equal or greater health; don't lose interest in you as often; can summon swarms, webs, or explode. They are literally upgraded Reapers. Anyone who says they're not harder is a liar, or are simply blind.

Then there's the bosses. Praetorian is literally the second toughest unit in the game (first if it's possessed), is fast, can stunlock, sync-kill, and become immune to powers. It's easily the hardest boss unit in the entire game. Their only disadvantage is their size, which is only really a disadvantage when comparing it to a Phantom.

Scions aren't bad if you are aware of them and have time to deal with them. If you're dealing with the pair of Praetorians running you down, they're incredibly frustrating, as they are excellent at flushing you out of cover, then immediately stunlocking you to death. They're like Primes + Brutes. Easily the hardest demi-boss unit.

Even if they cranked up their spawn-budget worth, it doesn't change the fact that they are the hardest units in the game. Unless their value is so high that there's only seven collectors at a time (as opposed to the 8 of other factions), they are much more difficult.

[Xaijin]

Sable Dove wrote...

The mooks are based on the Reapers, health-wise. Trooper=Cannibal, Captain=Marauder, Abomination>Husk (Abominations have nearly twice the HP, and absolutely no drawbacks).

But Troopers do slightly less damage per shot, and fire much faster (not to mention they're not prone to dropping what they're doing to go eat corpses); Captains fire slightly slower, but do 20-30% more damage than Marauders (and aren't prone to dropping what they're doing to buff troopers); and Abominations explode when killed. They are literally upgraded Husks with absolutely no drawbacks. Plus, they can't be held up by Marauders trying to buff them.

So yeah, the basic troopers are upgraded Reapers. Equal or greater health; don't lose interest in you as often; can summon swarms, webs, or explode. They are literally upgraded Reapers. Anyone who says they're not harder is a liar, or are simply blind.

Then there's the bosses. Praetorian is literally the second toughest unit in the game (first if it's possessed), is fast, can stunlock, sync-kill, and become immune to powers. It's easily the hardest boss unit in the entire game. Their only disadvantage is their size, which is only really a disadvantage when comparing it to a Phantom.

Scions aren't bad if you are aware of them and have time to deal with them. If you're dealing with the pair of Praetorians running you down, they're incredibly frustrating, as they are excellent at flushing you out of cover, then immediately stunlocking you to death. They're like Primes + Brutes. Easily the hardest demi-boss unit.

Even if they cranked up their spawn-budget worth, it doesn't change the fact that they are the hardest units in the game. Unless their value is so high that there's only seven collectors at a time (as opposed to the 8 of other factions), they are much more difficult.

Wroooooooonguh. Collectors cost a ****ton more than other units, and abominations cost more than command units.
 Do some research before commiting to a completely wrong and subjective wall of text.

PS. Abominations spawn in threes, so killing a squad depletes a Praetorian worth of budget.

I'll let you figure out the rest.

Modifié par Xaijin, 18 novembre 2012 - 08:20 .

[Xaijin]

andresft wrote...

It's not about their difficulty level. Back when the Reapers used to be the hardest faction, they were still (IMO) the most fun, or at least a lot of fun. The Collectors are currently the hardest faction, but they're annoying as hell. Medium- and long- range, scions are too lethal. Their ROF is insane, which coupled with crazy damage, makes them more lethal than any other unit out there. Yes, they're not that hard to kill, especially if you get up close and personal, but hey, it's not like it's just a walk in the park if you're at a distance from them and you want to get closer. Like I said, they fire too often and too powerfully.

Also, Collector troopers seem to be the most aggressive trooper units by far, whether because of their melee attack (which seems to be the most lethal) or how quickly they approach you to execute you when you're down.

If those troopers could tone down the whole being angry and evil thing and the Scion cannons were brought down to Ravager or Prime levels, they would still be at least as tough as the Reapers (if not more) and a lot more fun to play against.

Reapers were never the hardest faction.

[OutRideR310]

I like Collector's aggressive style of play - they know they're tough

[Zero132132]

Xaijin wrote...

andresft wrote...

It's not about their difficulty level. Back when the Reapers used to be the hardest faction, they were still (IMO) the most fun, or at least a lot of fun. The Collectors are currently the hardest faction, but they're annoying as hell. Medium- and long- range, scions are too lethal. Their ROF is insane, which coupled with crazy damage, makes them more lethal than any other unit out there. Yes, they're not that hard to kill, especially if you get up close and personal, but hey, it's not like it's just a walk in the park if you're at a distance from them and you want to get closer. Like I said, they fire too often and too powerfully.

Also, Collector troopers seem to be the most aggressive trooper units by far, whether because of their melee attack (which seems to be the most lethal) or how quickly they approach you to execute you when you're down.

If those troopers could tone down the whole being angry and evil thing and the Scion cannons were brought down to Ravager or Prime levels, they would still be at least as tough as the Reapers (if not more) and a lot more fun to play against.

Reapers were never the hardest faction.

On release, the Geth attacks didn't stun the way they do now, and the only dangerous unit Cerberus had was the Phantom. At launch, Reapers were the toughest.

[Influ]

I hate bees.

[Computron2000]

Xaijin wrote...

andresft wrote...

It's not about their difficulty level. Back when the Reapers used to be the hardest faction, they were still (IMO) the most fun, or at least a lot of fun. The Collectors are currently the hardest faction, but they're annoying as hell. Medium- and long- range, scions are too lethal. Their ROF is insane, which coupled with crazy damage, makes them more lethal than any other unit out there. Yes, they're not that hard to kill, especially if you get up close and personal, but hey, it's not like it's just a walk in the park if you're at a distance from them and you want to get closer. Like I said, they fire too often and too powerfully.

Also, Collector troopers seem to be the most aggressive trooper units by far, whether because of their melee attack (which seems to be the most lethal) or how quickly they approach you to execute you when you're down.

If those troopers could tone down the whole being angry and evil thing and the Scion cannons were brought down to Ravager or Prime levels, they would still be at least as tough as the Reapers (if not more) and a lot more fun to play against.

Reapers were never the hardest faction.

Perhaps not to you but they were to many, way back when people didn't have good guns, had weak powers and the geth didn't stun people senseless. Here's one from long time back

http://social.biowar...ndex/12096965/1

[Kogia]

Xaijin wrote...

Sable Dove wrote...

The mooks are based on the Reapers, health-wise. Trooper=Cannibal, Captain=Marauder, Abomination>Husk (Abominations have nearly twice the HP, and absolutely no drawbacks).

But Troopers do slightly less damage per shot, and fire much faster (not to mention they're not prone to dropping what they're doing to go eat corpses); Captains fire slightly slower, but do 20-30% more damage than Marauders (and aren't prone to dropping what they're doing to buff troopers); and Abominations explode when killed. They are literally upgraded Husks with absolutely no drawbacks. Plus, they can't be held up by Marauders trying to buff them.

So yeah, the basic troopers are upgraded Reapers. Equal or greater health; don't lose interest in you as often; can summon swarms, webs, or explode. They are literally upgraded Reapers. Anyone who says they're not harder is a liar, or are simply blind.

Then there's the bosses. Praetorian is literally the second toughest unit in the game (first if it's possessed), is fast, can stunlock, sync-kill, and become immune to powers. It's easily the hardest boss unit in the entire game. Their only disadvantage is their size, which is only really a disadvantage when comparing it to a Phantom.

Scions aren't bad if you are aware of them and have time to deal with them. If you're dealing with the pair of Praetorians running you down, they're incredibly frustrating, as they are excellent at flushing you out of cover, then immediately stunlocking you to death. They're like Primes + Brutes. Easily the hardest demi-boss unit.

Even if they cranked up their spawn-budget worth, it doesn't change the fact that they are the hardest units in the game. Unless their value is so high that there's only seven collectors at a time (as opposed to the 8 of other factions), they are much more difficult.

Wroooooooonguh. Collectors cost a ****ton more than other units, and abominations cost more than command units.
 Do some research before commiting to a completely wrong and subjective wall of text.

PS. Abominations spawn in threes, so killing a squad depletes a Praetorian worth of budget.

I'll let you figure out the rest.

Sable Dove's points seemd to make sense, as usual Xaijin, yours just came across as angry misplaced rage. As you are so keen to contribute, rather than being so quick to just try and pish on what other people say (it's a weird fetish you seem to frequently suffer from), why don't you actually put forward a counter point? I think what you were trying to say was that Collectors spawn budget means they have less of each unit, which seems an interesting and valid point to counter Sable Dove's observations, am I right? 

Modifié par Kogia, 18 novembre 2012 - 08:35 .

[UWxMaserati]

The only issue I really have with the Praetorians is the 360 eye lasers. For example when I am behind one that is standing up and setting to fire it's beams sometimes the beams come back through the body at me. Just doesn't seem right and has even killed me before when I thought all I had to do was stay behind it to avoid getting hit with my squishier characters.

I have no real issue with the Scions. They can take heavy damage if you break the sack and then work the head which isn't hard given how slow and stiff they are when they move making it an easy shot. Plus if you get close they hardly ever sync kill and just swing at you slowly and recklessly, easily dodged.

No real issue with anything else. Though I admit I hate it when I see them on Platinum. The PUGs I usually end up with struggle against them and I am not good enough to carry anyone against this faction on that level given the well balanced mix of power they have. But it's not impossible it's a challenge and I don't expect games to be a cakewalk.

[Xaijin]

Has nothing to do with any fetish, more to mean of directly refuting ridiculous hyperbole like "absolutely no drawbacks".

I'd say a melee only unit that has no defense against any attack in the game while costing more than the Command unit of the same faction is a pretty goddamn gigantic drawback. Also having bosses with less armor than other factions and no stagger resistance against weapons and only situational resistance against powers is also pretty significant.

Modifié par Xaijin, 18 novembre 2012 - 08:40 .

[stysiaq]

Air Quotes wrote...

1. Preatorians are too fast and durable for the damage they do. Even normal one is tougher than Atlas, a lot faster and does a lot of damage. A possesed one is just over the top completely.

I don't know for sure, but with a Javelin you 4-shot and Atlas and 3-shot a Praetorian, if aimed right. But still, Praetorian raises the ultracheap antipower bubble when cast powers on while it flies.

I support an idea of even more powerful Praetorian, a true Boss unit all the team must engage, in exchange for reducing the number of them to one at once. Because ME2.

2. Scions take and do too much damage. The missiles not only take your shields in 1 hit but also stops them from regening. The super accurate grenades are annoying and they can drop them over cover. Screws non dodge classes majorly.   

Scions are way too powerful in their Possessed form, and wave 7 Scion Armada (3 at the same place and time, with 2 Possessed I think) on Gold is such bullsh*t that I frequently use my missles just to spare myself frustration.

Less accuracy with these mine fields, please. Least accuracy overall, in fact. Scions should feel like they look like - crude, powerful clumsy beasts, with hellish firepower and melee swing power, but easily outmanouvered in CQC (already there, my favorite way to fight with a single one) and dodged in long-range combat.

Right now they are quite BS with their sniping skills.

3. Collector Captains do too much damage and are too accurate. They are tougher Marauders with even more weapon damage

I can live with that, because they look more powerful and elite.

4. Too many seeker swarms and the seekers are too tough. Screws power users a lot. 

Agree, Collectors are another reason to choose weapon based/cooldown-less classes over the power spammers when playing against Unknown Faction. I'd nerf the Seeker swarm/plague health by 30% - 50%.

5. A major one - Collectors NEED MORE SOUNDS! 

This x 1000.

6. There are very few classes that are very effective against the Collectors. Most power users will be screwed. Non dodge classes will be screwed. 

Out of the non-dodge classes, Krogan Sentinel without Incinerate is pretty safe and I use him to gather all the bees, so the team doesn't need to mind them. But I guess you meant the non-dodge / Scion cannon correlation... well, I think that Scion's cannon is pretty much unavoidable even with the basic dodge. Vorchas/Jetties have a better time against them.

INB4LRN2PL

Learn to play. Collectors are super easy and I soloed them with Asari Incisor Stasis Adept. 

[Xaijin]

Zero132132 wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

andresft wrote...

It's not about their difficulty level. Back when the Reapers used to be the hardest faction, they were still (IMO) the most fun, or at least a lot of fun. The Collectors are currently the hardest faction, but they're annoying as hell. Medium- and long- range, scions are too lethal. Their ROF is insane, which coupled with crazy damage, makes them more lethal than any other unit out there. Yes, they're not that hard to kill, especially if you get up close and personal, but hey, it's not like it's just a walk in the park if you're at a distance from them and you want to get closer. Like I said, they fire too often and too powerfully.

Also, Collector troopers seem to be the most aggressive trooper units by far, whether because of their melee attack (which seems to be the most lethal) or how quickly they approach you to execute you when you're down.

If those troopers could tone down the whole being angry and evil thing and the Scion cannons were brought down to Ravager or Prime levels, they would still be at least as tough as the Reapers (if not more) and a lot more fun to play against.

Reapers were never the hardest faction.

On release, the Geth attacks didn't stun the way they do now, and the only dangerous unit Cerberus had was the Phantom. At launch, Reapers were the toughest.

Not against anything with combo damage or armor damage/negation.

[Ogrinash]

I think they're the best faction in regards to being a challenge for most [or all] classes; quite balanced IMO.

They did really well with making them.

[holdenagincourt]

I've had a lot of trouble with them, but that might be due to having a crappy manifest on PC and being bad at PC controls. Also, I've only played against them like a dozen times total probably.

The seeker swarms make me laugh. As if non-grenade power use needed to be gimped any more.

The next faction should have flocks of cantankerous seagulls that induce screen shake while simultaneously overlaying the visual effects of Hunter Mode, Marksman, Devastator Mode, Adrenaline Rush and Bloodlust for 30 seconds. Maybe the enemy in the sights will have a 50% chance of ducking right when you fire your shot at it too. That way builds that aren't fussed about power denial get a little love from BioWare like projectile casters have.

[Clearly Balkan]

Zero132132 wrote...

Clearly Balkan wrote...

I don't see a problems with Collectors. They're easier then Geth, that's for sure.

Only nuisance is scion, but even he goes down in few Black Widow shots.

Sorry OP, I don't share your views & don't agree on additional nerf to Collectors.

Additional? What would they be an addition TO, exactly? So far, we've had no nerfs on the Collectors, just one change made to compensate for them accidentally having the Scion's damage applied twice.

Yesterday I played PUG Gold Collectors. I used Salarian Infiltrator with Black Widow.

Operative Package V + Incendiary Ammo IV .

We played on Reactor & finished game in exactly 20 minutes. 

For a PUG with total randoms that's excellent time.

I must say other teammates were very good also & approximately we all have had around 100K points each.

I wouldn't be exaggerating if I said Incendiary Ammo destroys Collectors, especially Scions & Praetorian shields.

[SMBTheExile]

They're still essentially a level above what you've asked for - Collectors Bronze is as difficult as any Silver game (apart from Collectors Silver, cause that's Gold).

Major annoyances - troopers and Captains appearing out of thin air behind you meleeing from a position you checked less than a second ago (maybe a lag problem) and once you're hit by the first Scion bolt, you could put a ten foot thick lead sheet between you and him and still take the next two to the face. The amount of times I've been killed in cover or around the corner is infuriating.