189 réponses à ce sujet

[Mightyg]

Annomander wrote...

Seeker swarm numbers need to be less, and have a LOT less health.

The killer bees swarm have barrier, making them total a ridiculous 3000 hit points: for a unit thats worth virtually no more than a swarmer.

This. also their hitboxes are wonky as hell, expand them a little.

 Also slight cut to barrier and armor to praetorians and scions, Make knocking them out of flight mode easier with weapon fire, or just cut the whole power immunity thing, it's annoying and far too punishing to power classes.

Modifié par Mightyg, 18 novembre 2012 - 09:27 .

[Koenig888]

Zero132132 wrote...

On release, the Geth attacks didn't stun the way they do now

and Geth rocket troopers only fire 1 rocket at a time

[solidprice]

SeanThen1 wrote...

My only complaint about the collectors is the seeker swarms.

They either...

A. Need to be worth like 300+ points per kill, as they have as much health as any other enemy.
or
B. Need their health cut down to 1/4 its current level.

[Atucker_a32]

i agree with the praetorians and captains and kind of with scions, praetorians should have their eye lasers work more like they used to, scions should have limited range, captains should be the only ones capable of producing swarms and have a slight damage debuff, they are definitely the strongest factions but it would only take a few minor changes to even them out

[Hellfire257]

Best faction there is.

[ArcaptSSX]

As a gold/plat players, i feel Collectors are "gold-killers". The only faction where i feel that the quality of a player's loadout should be close to a plat run with the 3 standard factions. Sometimes they decimate my gold pugs so well it's scary. Not so much the case in platinum since only the more seasoned players tend to play them.

Overall there are 2 things that make them much more powerful, in my opinion:
- scions being so godly at lauching grenades while so hard to kill (they make ravagers cry i'm sure)
- swarms

I hate praetorians for their barrier/movement/cheating lasers (oh sure, that 4meter-long container isn't hard cover...), but i feel they'd be ok if scions were significantly less powerful and swarms slower and with lower hp.

Modifié par JohnBobbyTheThird, 18 novembre 2012 - 11:10 .

[WindOverTuchanka]

Sable Dove wrote...

So yeah, the basic troopers are upgraded Reapers. Equal or greater health; don't lose interest in you as often; can summon swarms, webs, or explode. They are literally upgraded Reapers. Anyone who says they're not harder is a liar, or are simply blind.

Even if they cranked up their spawn-budget worth, it doesn't change the fact that they are the hardest units in the game. Unless their value is so high that there's only seven collectors at a time (as opposed to the 8 of other factions), they are much more difficult.

I believe you're onto something here. They may be upgraded in terms of dps, but there behaviour is simplified..

The whole faction is based on Reapers, at least concerning wave dynamics. Their boss unit can close distance fast like a banshee, and quickly becomes 'the frontline' and the most effective cover-buster. And their mid-tier sniper (who's not mid-tier at all, alas) can shoot across a whole field like a ravager. So Reapers and Collectors tactics are essentially 'reversed' compared to Cerberus and Geth.

I believe what they lack is an enemy in place of a Brute as a middle ground of a wave. They've split a Brute, and gave it's leap to Praetorians and it's bulkiness and instakill to Scions. That sounded good on paper and did not work well in practice. A Scion, being a mid-tier sniper, should not be twice as bulky as a Ravager. And a Brute is an important part of wave composition on Gold-, allowing the team to kill them/keep them depending on context and team's strength, a 'budget sponge' so to speak.

I've just looked at Cyonan's spreadsheet, and perhaps abominations can indeed serve as a 'budget sponge'. But well, religiously hunting down abominations does not seem like a fun way to control the wave, subjectively speaking, and we can't simply leave abominations on the field because they are too fast and suicidal.

I don't know how to solve this, though. New units are not likely to happen, and even if they did, they'll just feel more like reaper copy-pasting, which is not good. Decreasing damage/ROF/speed across the field does seem like an overly cheap solution that would imbalance the faction further. Collector waves tend to deplete faster already.

So far I'm content simply avoiding them where I can. I'll keep abomination cost in mind when I'm dropped into a gold collector match and am forced to clutch.

[Sable Dove]

Xaijin wrote...

Sable Dove wrote...

The mooks are based on the Reapers, health-wise. Trooper=Cannibal, Captain=Marauder, Abomination>Husk (Abominations have nearly twice the HP, and absolutely no drawbacks).

But Troopers do slightly less damage per shot, and fire much faster (not to mention they're not prone to dropping what they're doing to go eat corpses); Captains fire slightly slower, but do 20-30% more damage than Marauders (and aren't prone to dropping what they're doing to buff troopers); and Abominations explode when killed. They are literally upgraded Husks with absolutely no drawbacks. Plus, they can't be held up by Marauders trying to buff them.

So yeah, the basic troopers are upgraded Reapers. Equal or greater health; don't lose interest in you as often; can summon swarms, webs, or explode. They are literally upgraded Reapers. Anyone who says they're not harder is a liar, or are simply blind.

Then there's the bosses. Praetorian is literally the second toughest unit in the game (first if it's possessed), is fast, can stunlock, sync-kill, and become immune to powers. It's easily the hardest boss unit in the entire game. Their only disadvantage is their size, which is only really a disadvantage when comparing it to a Phantom.

Scions aren't bad if you are aware of them and have time to deal with them. If you're dealing with the pair of Praetorians running you down, they're incredibly frustrating, as they are excellent at flushing you out of cover, then immediately stunlocking you to death. They're like Primes + Brutes. Easily the hardest demi-boss unit.

Even if they cranked up their spawn-budget worth, it doesn't change the fact that they are the hardest units in the game. Unless their value is so high that there's only seven collectors at a time (as opposed to the 8 of other factions), they are much more difficult.

Wroooooooonguh. Collectors cost a ****ton more than other units, and abominations cost more than command units.
 Do some research before commiting to a completely wrong and subjective wall of text.

PS. Abominations spawn in threes, so killing a squad depletes a Praetorian worth of budget.

I'll let you figure out the rest.

That doesn't change the fact that there are only 8 units on the field, regardless of faction, and waves are always more then 8 units total. The fact that a Collector wave might be 20 units, while another faction might be 30 does not change the fact that 8 Collector units are more difficult than 8 units of any other faction.

Typically, it's the 8 units on the field that kill you, not the 20 that aren't. 

[Tyrannus00]

People always cry nerf Collectors, nerf nerf nerfener-

They have five, basically four units. That's their problem. There's way too much emphasis on too few units, seeing as praetorians act as pressure, and suppressants, scions act as suppressants, and the infantry and abominations act as pressure, all at once. They need their individual rolls broken up.

[E71]

1. We're generally well organized and informed.

2. We take real good care of things, keep them clean, in mint condition.

3. Our regular purchases of memorabilia, DLCs, special editions pay their salaries so I'm sure they love having us as customers.

4. We're completionists and don't like to leave the game half-done. Our manifests & challenges must be complete before we move on.

5. We deserve a little tag by our forum name to indicate our Colllector status.

P.S. Yes I know the irony of the "Hold the wallet" sig below.

Modifié par E71, 18 novembre 2012 - 12:07 .

[dimeonwu]

Air Quotes has made many good points before. I honestly agree with him.

[Ghost0Who0Walks]

It's primarily the Praetorians that are the problem; that laser is just way too accurate for something that can shoot through walls, and you need to be substantially far away in order to move far enough to dodge them. So the solution is to just keep them at a distance, right? Yeah, except they're the fastest-moving boss-unit in the game and can block powers, which would ordinarily be the first thing a person tries to use to slow them down. Sure, you can shoot them, but it's easier said than done when they're rushing towards you and need a lot of firepower to bring down.

The long and short of it is that Praetorians need to be a bit slower when aerial, need to have a shorter duration for their shield, or the laser either needs to be slower or not pierce through walls. Atlases and Geth Primes are slow and you can avoid their attacks by jumping in and out of cover, Banshees move fast and can deal decent damage from range, but not at the same time. The Praetorian is essentially all of the other boss units combined into one, plus cover breaking, and that needs to change.

[Beta582]

I find the collectors to be a fine enemy. I don't think that they are overpowered, BUT definitely powerful if handled incorrectly though.

Generally, the Praetorians laser is quite easy to avoid (even when using a character that can't dodge) by just side-stepping. Easiest way to kill one is by shooting the lower "Jaw" untill they stagger and then unloading on their heads when they are revealed.

The scions are quite easy to kill if you just stay mobile and aim for the head/"back sacks". Possessed scions are pathetically easy to kill because they have the grenade attack which require you to stay still for them to be effective. Just deal with them the same way as you would regular scions and you will be just fine.

Just treat collector troopers and captains like you would a marauder and they are not that big of a deal.

The only thing about collectors that i dislike are how strong the seeker swarms are.

* Remember folks, aim for the head *

Modifié par Beta582, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:28 .

[squidney2k1]

The problems with the Collectors, mainly magnified on Gold/Platinum:

• Ridiculous number of simulataneously Possessed enemies.
• Possession is not affected by the wave budget at all: you could get stuck with 5 possessed Troopers, or 5 possessed Scions & Praetorians.
• Bugged damaged mitigation vs. certain enemies.
• Accuracy + High ROF + Fast foot speed = problems.
• Praetorian can sometimes fire through walls.

[Lady Galaga]

I'm only now really getting into playing solo against Collectors, and it is unusually difficult. That said, I wouldn't expect the same builds and play styles to work the same way as with other enemies.

The difficulty has nothing to do with bosses; it's their ability not just to flank, but constantly flank. Their individual units flank pretty competently and flank in places I've noticed other enemies don't... but really it's the very frequent occurence of seekers - which come from all directions. Constant Seekers will keep you from pursuing an engagement for the length of time needed to be effective and hold them off, which is especially brutal when an enemy you fail to kill can be posessed. Essentially, Collectors bring unprecedented flanking abilities that outdo Cerberus, and combines them with Reaper ability to root you out before a horde rush, and adds a pinch of the Geth's pressing firepower.

All this, however, makes sense when you consider what Collectors essentially mean to accomplish. Where other enemies try to outmaneuver the enemy (Cerberus), force them back (Geth), or overwhelm and kill them (Reapers), Collectors mean to capture them. My only suggestion is maybe reduce the ability for Captains to create Seekers or reduce Seeker hardiness, and perhaps consider capping the number of posessed units if they aren't currently... it might really help if they didn't ALSO throw grenades

Modifié par Lady Galaga, 21 novembre 2012 - 07:23 .