1297 réponses à ce sujet

[Hurbster]

I'd like a neutral path please.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

thats1evildude wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

And just fyi you only need one example to make a point. Merrill proves that blood magic DOES NOT have to be used for evil, it is just the most apparent use for it.

And by your own admission, blood magic is most readily used for evil. So if it's constantly and consistently used for evil, why would we take the risk of allowing it to be practiced? Because it might do some good? And what about all the other evil that will occur alongside that good? It just comes back to the little kid with a revolver again.

I remember an in-game book in Oblivion called "The Black Arts On Trial" which essentially summed up why necromancy was banned by the Mage's Guild. It ended up stating that the risks outweighed the benefits, and that only those people who had proven themselves good, honorable, and really really careful would be allowed to use it.

Maybe a system like that?

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Eh. The Chantry reneged on the deal made with Shartan and ordered an Exalted March on the Dales, which was the NEW elven homeland, the Tevinters sinking Arlathan was in the past, solved as it were, and then made the elves live as segregated second hand citizens. The Chantry did that, the nobles of Thedas are just playing by the rules of the most powerful society in Thedas and their brainwashing.

The Exalted March on the Dales was only ordered as a result of elven aggression.

The Chantry does not preach elves are bad. I repeat: the Chantry does not preach elves are bad. The Chantry overlooks the contributions of elves in freeing the land from the Tevinter Imperium, but the Chantry does not say "Mistreat the elves." The humans of Thedas have decided on their own that elves should be mistreated, helped along by the fact that it is advantageous to the nobility throughout Thedas to keep the elves oppressed.

It's not the official Chantry line, but on the other hand, most priests will have nothing to do with the elves, and Gaider has already stated that elves are almost never allowed to become priests or templars.

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Also if multiplayer is going to be a Templar vs Mage thing I am soooooo going to enjoy melting me some templar eyes with my witchfire. XD

A pity, as the templars always stood for protecting mages as much as protecting others from mages.

Oh well. The Templar Order shall protect the land from foul magic as they always have. Let Thedas run red with the blood of apostates!

Omg, you're 1 evil dude.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Hurbster wrote...

I'd like a neutral path please.

When's the BSN going to add a like button to the forums?

[Pelle6666]

I can promise you that BW wont force you to take any ones side. It's a possibility that the main character will start off as pro templar but the main theme in a BW game is to define your own character. I'm certain we'll be able to brake entirely with the templars if we so wish.

[Fredward]

I seem to have a lot to counter-argue against (not that it isn't going in circles but w/e) but parsing the posts drive me insane so feel free to pick and choose that which applies to you. xp

Lotion Soronnar actually only weak willed or mages who make deals with demons tend to get possessed, as always there are exceptions, but this is exactly why the Harrowing exists. To show who would be most prone to demonic possession and eliminate them. Now mind you I DO think there should be some way to test how a mage would fair going against a demon, maybe like a mage school that they go to or something, where they face the Harrowing or something like that but when they pass it they can leave. I ALSO think phylacteries should be kept on all mages because they ARE dangerous and the possibility always exists that they can turn all eat-people-ee and phylacteries would come in handy then. It should only be used AS NEEDED though.

And no, I'm pretty sure the instance of rape and abuse is much higher in Circles than Thedas in general. Whenever you put people in a clear position of authority, with no real way for the victims to speak out against them, AND in a enclosed space... well its a nasty combination. And Tranquility is NOT just used on mages who are "unsafe" it is also for those who ask for it usually because they fear their Harrowing. Which brings me to my next point, going on the dialogue options in the Magi Origin its pretty obvious that the Harrowing is secret. They know it exists but they don't know what it is. They are not prepared to fight demons other than being told that they are bad and being possessed is a no-no. That is not adequate preparation. And besides everyone whose come back from being Tranquil has described it as worse than death, I would recommend that those mages that refuse to do their Harrowing should be the only ones to be permanent residents of Circles. Instead of all mages no matter how capable they may be.

And most of the people who we have seen turn into abominations have done so in a stressful situation so I think it's a big contributing factor. I think that if you've been in a life threatening enviroment (like war) and managed to keep a cool head you're good to go on the demonic possession front.

As for the Tevinter Imperium being ruled by possessed mages... It's true that we haven't seen it yet but people possessed by demons don't seem all that... logical. They are prone to impulsive decisions at the very least and a penchant for large scale destruction at worst. It seems like an odd way to run a country. xp And Tevinter definitely does not lock up their mages seeing as how they are the noble class and run the country.

Also nullifying my demonic witchfire with templar magic got me thinking. Hawke and co killed oodles of Templars in DA2 and NOT ONCE was my magic nullified, except the battle with Meredith. So either the Templars' standards are slipping or dem mages be too powerful. XD

OH and on a largely unrelated note the exact cause of why the Chantry ordered the Exalted March on the Dales is left ambiguous. The elves say it was just because they refused to worship the Maker, the codex entry says the elves attacked a human settlement but only AFTER that settlement did something bad to them. I don't recall. Either way an Exalted March seems excessive.

Also where do you guys get those pro-templar banners and where can I get me a mage one?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Lotion Soronnar actually only weak willed or mages who make deals with demons tend to get possessed, as always there are exceptions, but this is exactly why the Harrowing exists. To show who would be most prone to demonic possession and eliminate them.

Except you don't really know. Harrowed mages fall too. Harrowing is more a test of character and smarts than anything else.
What kind of guarnatee do you really have? None. Just because I manage to do something once doesn't mean I can do it all the time.

And no, I'm pretty sure the instance of rape and abuse is much higher in Circles than Thedas in general.

You are "pretty sure"?
Your assurances don't mean anything. Facts do. And you don't have any.

Whenever you put people in a clear position of authority, with no real way for the victims to speak out against them, AND in a enclosed space... well its a nasty combination.

Welcome to Thedas - where lords and nobles and people in power can f*** you over even easier than in our world. And they can also hide it better.
Also, mages can speak out - that's whah the First Enchanter and the Reverend Mother are for.

And Tranquility is NOT just used on mages who are "unsafe" it is also for those who ask for it usually because they fear their Harrowing. Which brings me to my next point, going on the dialogue options in the Magi Origin its pretty obvious that the Harrowing is secret. They know it exists but they don't know what it is. They are not prepared to fight demons other than being told that they are bad and being possessed is a no-no. That is not adequate preparation.

It is. The whole point of the Harrowing is to not know.
Foreknowledge makes the test pointless. Demons don't play fair and you can't test character by telling people what you expect from them.

And most of the people who we have seen turn into abominations have done so in a stressful situation so I think it's a big contributing factor. I think that if you've been in a life threatening enviroment (like war) and managed to keep a cool head you're good to go on the demonic possession front.

Because stress is the only factor? Yeah right.
How about...Oh, I dunno.. Love? Jealousy? Greed? Rage? Desire? Depression? Malice? Just plain old alchocol?

And Tevinter definitely does not lock up their mages seeing as how they are the noble class and run the country.

The Magiesters, no.But all the lesser mages are on a leash. Or should I say - in the tower.

[Fredward]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Lotion Soronnar actually only weak willed or mages who make deals with demons tend to get possessed, as always there are exceptions, but this is exactly why the Harrowing exists. To show who would be most prone to demonic possession and eliminate them. [/quote]

Except you don't really know. Harrowed mages fall too. Harrowing is more a test of character and smarts than anything else.
What kind of guarnatee do you really have? None. Just because I manage to do something once doesn't mean I can do it all the time.

[/quote]

Character meaning not likely to make a deal with a demon? Check. Smarts not being tricked by a demon? Check. Fighting demons while in the Fade? Well hotdog! That covers ability as well!



[quote]
Lotion Soronnor wrote...
And no, I'm pretty sure the instance of rape and abuse is much higher in Circles than Thedas in general. [/quote]

You are "pretty sure"?
Your assurances don't mean anything. Facts do. And you don't have any.

[/quote]

And you do?

There have been multiple mentions of rapes in the Tower, across both games.

[quote]Lotion Soronnar...
Whenever you put people in a clear position of authority, with no real way for the victims to speak out against them, AND in a enclosed space... well its a nasty combination.[/quote]

Welcome to Thedas - where lords and nobles and people in power can f*** you over even easier than in our world. And they can also hide it better.
Also, mages can speak out - that's whah the First Enchanter and the Reverend Mother are for.[/quote]

And that clearly justifies it? The First Enchanter is a mage, and like Irving mentions the Templars like to grab hold of other excuses to avoid besmirching their good name. And the Reverend Mother works for aforementioned oppresive regime. Sure they have people to speak to but it changes nothing.


[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And Tranquility is NOT just used on mages who are "unsafe" it is also for those who ask for it usually because they fear their Harrowing. Which brings me to my next point, going on the dialogue options in the Magi Origin its pretty obvious that the Harrowing is secret. They know it exists but they don't know what it is. They are not prepared to fight demons other than being told that they are bad and being possessed is a no-no. That is not adequate preparation. [/quote]

It is. The whole point of the Harrowing is to not know.
Foreknowledge makes the test pointless. Demons don't play fair and you can't test character by telling people what you expect from them.[/quote]

Kay and when they've proven themselves by repelling unexpected demonic possession they get a pat on the back and a golden star? If the goal of the Harrowing is to weed out those likely to be possessed those that aren't should be allowed freedom, seeing as how otherwise the system is flawed and should be scrapped altogehter, no?


[quote]
And most of the people who we have seen turn into abominations have done so in a stressful situation so I think it's a big contributing factor. I think that if you've been in a life threatening enviroment (like war) and managed to keep a cool head you're good to go on the demonic possession front. [/quote]

Because stress is the only factor? Yeah right.
How about...Oh, I dunno.. Love? Jealousy? Greed? Rage? Desire? Depression? Malice? Just plain old alchocol?
[/quote]

If you read what I said carefully you'll notice that I never said stress was the only factor. Just that almost all the people we've seen turn into abominations did so in stressful circumstances. We have yet to see a drunken abomination, sadly.

[quote]
And Tevinter definitely does not lock up their mages seeing as how they are the noble class and run the country.[/quote]

The Magiesters, no.But all the lesser mages are on a leash. Or should I say - in the tower.
[/quote]

There aren't "lesser mages" you have Magisters and their apprentices. You don't seem to have a problem sucking facts from your thumb do yah?

[Fredward]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Lotion Soronnar actually only weak willed or mages who make deals with demons tend to get possessed, as always there are exceptions, but this is exactly why the Harrowing exists. To show who would be most prone to demonic possession and eliminate them. [/quote]

Except you don't really know. Harrowed mages fall too. Harrowing is more a test of character and smarts than anything else.
What kind of guarnatee do you really have? None. Just because I manage to do something once doesn't mean I can do it all the time.
[/quote]

Character meaning not likely to make a deal with a demon? Check. Smarts not being tricked by a demon? Check. Fighting demons while in the Fade? Well hotdog! That covers ability as well!



[quote]Foopydoopydoo wrote...
And no, I'm pretty sure the instance of rape and abuse is much higher in Circles than Thedas in general. [/quote]
[quote]Lotion Soronaar wrote...
You are "pretty sure"?
Your assurances don't mean anything. Facts do. And you don't have any.
[/quote]

And you do?

There have been multiple mentions of rapes in the Tower, across both games.

[quote]Foopydoopdoo wrote...
Whenever you put people in a clear position of authority, with no real way for the victims to speak out against them, AND in a enclosed space... well its a nasty combination.[/quote]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Welcome to Thedas - where lords and nobles and people in power can f*** you over even easier than in our world. And they can also hide it better.
Also, mages can speak out - that's whah the First Enchanter and the Reverend Mother are for.[/quote]

And that clearly justifies it? The First Enchanter is a mage, and like Irving mentions the Templars like to grab hold of other excuses to avoid besmirching their good name. And the Reverend Mother works for aforementioned oppresive regime. Sure they have people to speak to but it changes nothing.


[quote]Foopydoopdoo wrote...
And Tranquility is NOT just used on mages who are "unsafe" it is also for those who ask for it usually because they fear their Harrowing. Which brings me to my next point, going on the dialogue options in the Magi Origin its pretty obvious that the Harrowing is secret. They know it exists but they don't know what it is. They are not prepared to fight demons other than being told that they are bad and being possessed is a no-no. That is not adequate preparation. [/quote]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It is. The whole point of the Harrowing is to not know.
Foreknowledge makes the test pointless. Demons don't play fair and you can't test character by telling people what you expect from them.[/quote]

Kay and when they've proven themselves by repelling unexpected demonic possession they get a pat on the back and a golden star? If the goal of the Harrowing is to weed out those likely to be possessed those that aren't should be allowed freedom, seeing as how otherwise the system is flawed and should be scrapped altogehter, no?


[quote]Foopydoopydoo wrote...
And most of the people who we have seen turn into abominations have done so in a stressful situation so I think it's a big contributing factor. I think that if you've been in a life threatening enviroment (like war) and managed to keep a cool head you're good to go on the demonic possession front. [/quote]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Because stress is the only factor? Yeah right.
How about...Oh, I dunno.. Love? Jealousy? Greed? Rage? Desire? Depression? Malice? Just plain old alchocol?
[/quote]

If you read what I said carefully you'll notice that I never said stress was the only factor. Just that almost all the people we've seen turn into abominations did so in stressful circumstances. We have yet to see a drunken abomination, sadly.

[quote]Foopydoopydoo wrote...
And Tevinter definitely does not lock up their mages seeing as how they are the noble class and run the country.[/quote]
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Magiesters, no.But all the lesser mages are on a leash. Or should I say - in the tower.
[/quote]

There aren't "lesser mages" you have Magisters and their apprentices. You don't seem to have a problem sucking facts from your thumb do yah?

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 23 novembre 2012 - 08:29 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Magiesters, no.But all the lesser mages are on a leash. Or should I say - in the tower.

There aren't "lesser mages" you have Magisters and their apprentices. You don't seem to have a problem sucking facts from your thumb do yah?

No, there are Tevinter Circles, and the mages there are treated roughly the same as under the White Chantry. It's just that the Magisters are exempt from the rules. (We have this from Gaider.)

[Fredward]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Magiesters, no.But all the lesser mages are on a leash. Or should I say - in the tower.

There aren't "lesser mages" you have Magisters and their apprentices. You don't seem to have a problem sucking facts from your thumb do yah?

No, there are Tevinter Circles, and the mages there are treated roughly the same as under the White Chantry. It's just that the Magisters are exempt from the rules. (We have this from Gaider.)

Huh. You learn something new every day. xp

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Magiesters, no.But all the lesser mages are on a leash. Or should I say - in the tower.

There aren't "lesser mages" you have Magisters and their apprentices. You don't seem to have a problem sucking facts from your thumb do yah?

No, there are Tevinter Circles, and the mages there are treated roughly the same as under the White Chantry. It's just that the Magisters are exempt from the rules. (We have this from Gaider.)

Huh. You learn something new every day. xp

Not me. My school's out till Monday. 

[Fredward]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Not me. My school's out till Monday. 

Yes BUT did you know the word "quotidian" means mundane or everyday?

Foopydoopydoo; a faculty of learning since 1993. XD

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Not me. My school's out till Monday. 

Yes BUT did you know the word "quotidian" means mundane or everyday?

Foopydoopydoo; a faculty of learning since 1993. XD

[Lotion Soronarr]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

You are "pretty sure"?
Your assurances don't mean anything. Facts do. And you don't have any.

And you do?

There have been multiple mentions of rapes in the Tower, across both games.

And you will hear mentions of rape in every city you visit too.
I recall a total of 3 mentions. Wow...an epidemic.

Lotion Soronnar...
Welcome to Thedas - where lords and nobles and people in power can f*** you over even easier than in our world. And they can also hide it better.
Also, mages can speak out - that's whah the First Enchanter and the Reverend Mother are for.

And that clearly justifies it? The First Enchanter is a mage, and like Irving mentions the Templars like to grab hold of other excuses to avoid besmirching their good name. And the Reverend Mother works for aforementioned oppresive regime. Sure they have people to speak to but it changes nothing.

You can't change it. That's what I'm saying.
You have a fantasy thinking you can, but you really can't.

Opressive regime? Now we're back to the one-thought-rethoric.

Lotion Soronnar wrote..
It is. The whole point of the Harrowing is to not know.
Foreknowledge makes the test pointless. Demons don't play fair and you can't test character by telling people what you expect from them.

Kay and when they've proven themselves by repelling unexpected demonic possession they get a pat on the back and a golden star? If the goal of the Harrowing is to weed out those likely to be possessed those that aren't should be allowed freedom, seeing as how otherwise the system is flawed and should be scrapped altogehter, no?

No.
Mages being allowed freedom is not a solution to any problem, it creates problems.

The Magiesters, no.But all the lesser mages are on a leash. Or should I say - in the tower.

There aren't "lesser mages" you have Magisters and their apprentices. You don't seem to have a problem sucking facts from your thumb do yah?

I have no idea what you are talking about, because most mages in tevinters are also confined to circles. The Magisters and their chosen few are the only ones with real freedom.

[Adanu]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

You are "pretty sure"?
Your assurances don't mean anything. Facts do. And you don't have any.

And you do?

There have been multiple mentions of rapes in the Tower, across both games.

And you will hear mentions of rape in every city you visit too.
I recall a total of 3 mentions. Wow...an epidemic.

Lotion Soronnar...
Welcome to Thedas - where lords and nobles and people in power can f*** you over even easier than in our world. And they can also hide it better.
Also, mages can speak out - that's whah the First Enchanter and the Reverend Mother are for.

And that clearly justifies it? The First Enchanter is a mage, and like Irving mentions the Templars like to grab hold of other excuses to avoid besmirching their good name. And the Reverend Mother works for aforementioned oppresive regime. Sure they have people to speak to but it changes nothing.

You can't change it. That's what I'm saying.
You have a fantasy thinking you can, but you really can't.

Opressive regime? Now we're back to the one-thought-rethoric.

Lotion Soronnar wrote..
It is. The whole point of the Harrowing is to not know.
Foreknowledge makes the test pointless. Demons don't play fair and you can't test character by telling people what you expect from them.

Kay and when they've proven themselves by repelling unexpected demonic possession they get a pat on the back and a golden star? If the goal of the Harrowing is to weed out those likely to be possessed those that aren't should be allowed freedom, seeing as how otherwise the system is flawed and should be scrapped altogehter, no?

No.
Mages being allowed freedom is not a solution to any problem, it creates problems.

The Magiesters, no.But all the lesser mages are on a leash. Or should I say - in the tower.

There aren't "lesser mages" you have Magisters and their apprentices. You don't seem to have a problem sucking facts from your thumb do yah?

I have no idea what you are talking about, because most mages in tevinters are also confined to circles. The Magisters and their chosen few are the only ones with real freedom.

Three mentions that we know of. Who knows how many are off screen.

If you want to go back to the original circles, you will have anothrt rebellion eventually. No one likes having their freedoms taken away regardless of the source... and giving another group power over the freedomless group will only lead to the same result.

You can try to 'justify' slavery all you like with mages, doesn't mean mages will go with it quietly.

[MisterJB]

That's just another difference between the two opposite sides of the debate. Pro-Templars realized long ago that mundanes and mages are locked in an endless and unbrekable cycle of hatred and violence.

[TEWR]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Magiesters, no.But all the lesser mages are on a leash. Or should I say - in the tower.

There aren't "lesser mages" you have Magisters and their apprentices. You don't seem to have a problem sucking facts from your thumb do yah?

No, there are Tevinter Circles, and the mages there are treated roughly the same as under the White Chantry. It's just that the Magisters are exempt from the rules. (We have this from Gaider.)

More or less. Fenris notes that the Mages in Tevinter are enslaved by the Magisters just as much as non-mages. At best, they're taught how to handle their magic but at the cost of being slaves just as much as they are in White Chantry lands.

Unless they become Magisters.

It'd be interesting to learn more about how Tevinter treats its Mages, aside from the following:

1) They have Circles.
2) Mages are taught there.
3) Magisters enslave Mages
4) Mages control the Chantry -- which is really the main reason why Tevinter fell into its old roots.
5) Imperial Templars are essentially cannon fodder against magical threats due to the Magisters controlling the Chantry.
6) Magisters will be very abusive towards apprentices, thus causing those apprentices to basically turn into monsters themselves (Hadriana).

More detail on the first five would be great. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Adanu wrote...
If you want to go back to the original circles, you will have anothrt rebellion eventually. No one likes having their freedoms taken away regardless of the source... and giving another group power over the freedomless group will only lead to the same result.

You can try to 'justify' slavery all you like with mages, doesn't mean mages will go with it quietly.

So?
And if mages run around free, you're gonna have people turn agaisnt them (because of the danger they represent) eventually.

I think we already established that people don't like restrictions and there will always be those who cannot cope with it and go violent. It's just the way it is.
Buit that doens't mean the system should be abolished.
After all, you can never stop crime - does that mean we should stop fighting crime?


Also, it's no slavery. We had several devs come and say it.

[Adanu]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Adanu wrote...
If you want to go back to the original circles, you will have anothrt rebellion eventually. No one likes having their freedoms taken away regardless of the source... and giving another group power over the freedomless group will only lead to the same result.

You can try to 'justify' slavery all you like with mages, doesn't mean mages will go with it quietly.

So?
And if mages run around free, you're gonna have people turn agaisnt them (because of the danger they represent) eventually.

I think we already established that people don't like restrictions and there will always be those who cannot cope with it and go violent. It's just the way it is.
Buit that doens't mean the system should be abolished.
After all, you can never stop crime - does that mean we should stop fighting crime?


Also, it's no slavery. We had several devs come and say it.

Devs don't get how slavery works apparently, then.

And don't equate police departments with the Circles. They're not a valid comparison. Police departments have pretty hefty checks and balances within and without to deal with corruption, stupidity, and mistreatment of their protectees.

Circles have none of these checks. They are not remotely the same thing.

[MisterJB]

Adanu wrote...
Devs don't get how slavery works apparently, then.

No, you just can't make the distintion between slavery and imprisionment and segregation.

And don't equate police departments with the Circles. They're not a valid comparison. Police departments have pretty hefty checks and balances within and without to deal with corruption, stupidity, and mistreatment of their protectees.

Circles have none of these checks. They are not remotely the same thing.

So does the Circle, These checks and balances include the Knigth Commander sharing power with the First Enchanter and the Grand Cleric as well as the vigilance of the Seekers of Truth who count amongst their functions persecuting corrupt templars. Just because an influential enough Knight Commander can find a way to bypass all of this, it doesn't mean the system is inefectual.

Modifié par MisterJB, 24 novembre 2012 - 02:50 .

[The Hierophant]

Adanu wrote...

Devs don't get how slavery works apparently, then.

And don't equate police departments with the Circles. They're not a valid comparison. Police departments have pretty hefty checks and balances within and without to deal with corruption, stupidity, and mistreatment of their protectees.

Circles have none of these checks. They are not remotely the same thing.

Being quarantined for life due to chances of possession by chaotic entities is not slavery, as the only similaraity would be that people are detained against their will. A better argument would be that mages are treated like premeditated criminals, as using the term slavery is only b@st@rdizing it. (E.g. It's like comparing racial profiling to the Rwandan Genocide.)

I do agree that the comaprison of the Circle of Magi & modern police forces is faulty as the former lacks oversight who's not related or affiliated with the Chantry, and Templars.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Adanu wrote...
Devs don't get how slavery works apparently, then.

Ahuh..because you're the only arbiter of everything and only your definitions matter.

Fair enough. But mind you, I can make my own definitions.
Douchbaggery - to be a mage or a mage supporter.

Your definitions are irrelevant.

And don't equate police departments with the Circles. They're not a valid comparison. Police departments have pretty hefty checks and balances within and without to deal with corruption, stupidity, and mistreatment of their protectees.

Circles have none of these checks. They are not remotely the same thing.

Police departments TODAY have those checks - and even then only in some places in this world.
Back in the middle ages, the city guard (the closest thing to police) didn't have them.
No one did.
They weren't possible.

So you are realyldo for a reality check.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Hierophant wrote...
I do agree that the comaprison of the Circle of Magi & modern police forces is faulty as the former lacks oversight who's not related or affiliated with the Chantry, and Templars.

Because internal police is not related to the police?
They both work for the government....

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Also, it's no slavery. We had several devs come and say it.

We had one single developer say that; the same one who said atheism was the desire to destroy all religion.

[Fredward]

Can we at least agree that, from a moral POV, that imprisoning people for life based on an accident of birth is wrong?