1297 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

MisterJB wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Devs don't get how slavery works apparently, then.

No, you just can't make the distintion between slavery and imprisionment and segregation.

There are characters and in-game authors who address the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery and address that Circle mages live in servitude to the Chantry, including the historical Aldenon the Wise and pro-mage Hawke.

[Dave of Canada]

LobselVith8 wrote...

There are characters and in-game authors who address the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery and address that Circle mages live in servitude to the Chantry, including the historical Aldenon the Wise and pro-mage Hawke.

And there's some who don't.

OH NO.

[MisterJB]

LobselVith8 wrote...
There are characters and in-game authors who address the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery and address that Circle mages live in servitude to the Chantry, including the historical Aldenon the Wise and pro-mage Hawke.

And all of that amounts to them having an opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

And I wish you'd stop mentioning Aldenon the Naive who placed morality over practicality and reality as if he is some sort of authority in...anything, really.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Devs don't get how slavery works apparently, then.

Ahuh..because you're the only arbiter of everything and only your definitions matter.

Fair enough. But mind you, I can make my own definitions.
Douchbaggery - to be a mage or a mage supporter.

Your definitions are irrelevant.

If you want to get technical about it, one single developer said it wasn't slavery, then that same developer said it was seen as slavery by certain people and that those people weren't wrong, simply that everyone had different views of the situation.

[Adanu]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Also, it's no slavery. We had several devs come and say it.

We had one single developer say that; the same one who said atheism was the desire to destroy all religion.

Wait, Gaider said it was a desire to destroy all religion? LOL... yeah, not taking his word about slavery, then. The circles are instituionalized slavery that is more 'palatible' from maybes and hearsay. They are worse off than blacks after the Revolutionary War until the Civil War, since at least blacks could be freed. If a circle mage runs away, they get chased by Templars for the rest of their lives.

If you don't think that is slavery, you need a reality check.

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
There are
characters and in-game authors who address the Chantry controlled
Circles as slavery and address that Circle mages live in servitude to
the Chantry, including the historical Aldenon the Wise and pro-mage Hawke.

And all of that amounts to them having an opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

And
I wish you'd stop mentioning Aldenon the Naive who placed morality over
practicality and reality as if he is some sort of authority
in...anything, really.

The naive? One of the men who was intrumental in making Fereldan as a nation as naive? Well, at least we know where you stand. Salvery is well and fine if 'it's for the good of all'.

I'm sure the Africans taken for slavery felt the same way.

Modifié par Adanu, 24 novembre 2012 - 04:26 .

[LobselVith8]

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

There are characters and in-game authors who address the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery and address that Circle mages live in servitude to the Chantry, including the historical Aldenon the Wise and pro-mage Hawke.

And all of that amounts to them having an opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

Which is the crux of the schism between mages and templars. No one ever agrees.

MisterJB wrote...

And I wish you'd stop mentioning Aldenon the Naive who placed morality over practicality and reality as if he is some sort of authority in...anything, really.

You mean the co-founder of Ferelden, without whom Ferelden as we know it wouldn't even exist?

[MisterJB]

Adanu wrote...
If you don't think that is slavery, you need a reality check.

You need a reality check. If a prisioner escapes, obviously the authorities will pursues.

Mages are dangerous and thus, it is logical to separate them from those they could harm and who might harm them. Circle Mages have rights and have freedoms, they can appear at court to be heard, they share power with the templars, they can visit cities and buy souvenirs, they work for themselves to earn money to mantain their community and their help in times of need is requested, not demanded.
They have the luxury to wonder just how free they are. Look at Orana who can't even understand the concept of "freedom". That is an actual slave.
Circle Mages have no idea how good they have it.

[Herr Uhl]

LobselVith8 wrote...

There are characters and in-game authors who address the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery and address that Circle mages live in servitude to the Chantry, including the historical Aldenon the Wise and pro-mage Hawke.

There are also authors and people in real life that consider any given political system slavery.

[Fredward]

MisterJB wrote...
And I wish you'd stop mentioning Aldenon the Naive who placed morality over practicality and reality as if he is some sort of authority in...anything, really.

If we're being practical we should feed starving people to starving people but we don't do that since it is wrong. xp

And you're trying to make the Circles sound like a happy boarding school, which it ain't.

[MisterJB]

LobselVith8 wrote...
You mean the co-founder of Ferelden, without whom Ferelden as we know it wouldn't even exist?

A good conqueror does not equal a good ruler. For instance, Robert Baratheon.
If he truly believed mages and mundanes can live together as equals, then he was a fool and his opinions means little.
"I sat with the mage in many councils and although his magecraft was greater than even the Tevinter Magisters,
many believed his advice to be folly. He had little appreciation for
the hard truths of our lands, they said. Compassion, mercy, justice—they
matter not when Teyrn Simeon invades your land, subverts your nobles,
and takes what's yours. He grew bitter and impatient with us and ours,
and these sentiments were often returned."

as I said, Aldenon seems more concerned with morality than with reality. Thankfully, Calenhad proved wiser.

[Dave of Canada]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

And you're trying to make the Circles sound like a happy boarding school, which it ain't.

They're treated better than everyone excluding nobility and they get to learn their abilities. It's a school for rich kids but you don't need to be rich to apply.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 24 novembre 2012 - 04:28 .

[Redbelle]

LobselVith8 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Devs don't get how slavery works apparently, then.

No, you just can't make the distintion between slavery and imprisionment and segregation.

There are characters and in-game authors who address the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery and address that Circle mages live in servitude to the Chantry, including the historical Aldenon the Wise and pro-mage Hawke.

While slavery is generally considered negatively, it is worth pointing out that in our history their are many examples of how selling oneself into slavery gives a better quality of life in comparison to being poor and destitute. The negativity comes from the bad masters who refused to treat their slaves fairly.

Good masters on the other hand would expect their slaves to carry out their responsibilities and pay them wages for their upkeep, while providing room, board and sustenace. considering that many slaves came from slum area's their standard of living is a vast improvement.

[Herr Uhl]

Adanu wrote...

The circles are instituionalized slavery that is more 'palatible' from maybes and hearsay. They are worse off than blacks after the Revolutionary War until the Civil War, since at least blacks could be freed. If a circle mage runs away, they get chased by Templars for the rest of their lives.

That is incarceration, not slavery. Delightful similie btw.

[Adanu]

MisterJB wrote...

Adanu wrote...
If you don't think that is slavery, you need a reality check.

You need a reality check. If a prisioner escapes, obviously the authorities will pursues.

Mages are dangerous and thus, it is logical to separate them from those they could harm and who might harm them. Circle Mages have rights and have freedoms, they can appear at court to be heard, they share power with the templars, they can visit cities and buy souvenirs, they work for themselves to earn money to mantain their community and their help in times of need is requested, not demanded.
They have the luxury to wonder just how free they are. Look at Orana who can't even understand the concept of "freedom". That is an actual slave.
Circle Mages have no idea how good they have it.

So mindset equals slavery now? You need a slave mindset to be a slave? I'm not denying mages can be dangerous, so can a warrior. So can an archer. They train to control their fighting skills. Yes, mages can be possessed... which means they get a different sort of training. Enslaving mages over maybes is what broke the circles.

They have no idea how good they have it being enslaved? Great... it's people like you who probably thought the Africans America enslaved had no idea how good they had it with them.

Herr Uhl wrote...

Adanu wrote...

The circles
are instituionalized slavery that is more 'palatible' from maybes and
hearsay. They are worse off than blacks after the Revolutionary War
until the Civil War, since at least blacks could be freed. If a circle
mage runs away, they get chased by Templars for the rest of their lives.

That is incarceration, not slavery. Delightful similie btw.

Incarceration can have the implication of one day being able to leave or not. Slavery, in the form of the circles, means they do not. If they leave, they would be chased for the rest of their lives.

Don't ****** in my ear and tell me it's rain.

Modifié par Adanu, 24 novembre 2012 - 04:32 .

[MisterJB]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
And you're trying to make the Circles sound like a happy boarding school, which it ain't.

It's no Hogwarts, I admit, but it's also not slavery.

[Redbelle]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

And you're trying to make the Circles sound like a happy boarding school, which it ain't.

They're treated better than everyone excluding nobility and they get to learn their abilities. It's a school for rich kids but you don't need to be rich to apply.

Kind of what I was driving at. They are better off in a position where they have to give up certain freedoms, than being ran down like dogs for exibiting signs of magical prowess.

They gain status and ability in exchange for servitude.

[LobselVith8]

Adanu wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Also, it's no slavery. We had several devs come and say it.

We had one single developer say that; the same one who said atheism was the desire to destroy all religion.

Wait, Gaider said it was a desire to destroy all religion? LOL... yeah, not taking his word about slavery, then. 

To be more specific, Gaider said the atheist option wasn't going to return to Dragon Age because playing as an atheist meant you want to eventually destroy all religion. It's likely why Hawke was written to be religiously Andrastian.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Also, it's no slavery. We had several devs come and say it.

We had one single developer say that; the same one who said atheism was the desire to destroy all religion.

Two developers actually..
Or was it three?

[MisterJB]

Adanu wrote...
So mindset equals slavery now? You need a slave mindset to be a slave? I'm not denying mages can be dangerous, so can a warrior. So can an archer. They train to control their fighting skills. Yes, mages can be possessed... which means they get a different sort of training. Enslaving mages over maybes is what broke the circles.

You need to be treated like a slave in order to be a slave which the mages aren't. They have freedoms and rights, they are not treated like proprierty. They are not slaves. I gave example of all of these in my previous post but you chose to ignore and focus solely on a single thing.
Mages live in a luxurious tower where they are fed, clothed, educated. There are million upon millions of people in our real world who would kill to live in those conditions.

Also, magic is more dangerous in the hands of an untrained child like Connor tha a sword is in the hands of an experienced knight like Ser Perth.

[Dave of Canada]

LobselVith8 wrote...

To be more specific, Gaider said the atheist option wasn't going to return to Dragon Age because playing as an atheist meant you want to eventually destroy all religion. It's likely why Hawke was written to be religiously Andrastian.

I'm not surprised you see what you want to see, you're pretty good at it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Adanu wrote...
If you don't think that is slavery, you need a reality check.

That's confinment, not slavery.

Your grasp of basic vocabulary andhhte mening of certain words is abysmal.

MisterJB wrote...
The naive? One of the men who was intrumental in making Fereldan as a nation as naive? Well, at least we know where you stand. Salvery is well and fine if 'it's for the good of all'.

Yes, naive.
Because he's an idiot with dreams and unrelistic plans.

[Fredward]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

And you're trying to make the Circles sound like a happy boarding school, which it ain't.

They're treated better than everyone excluding nobility and they get to learn their abilities. It's a school for rich kids but you don't need to be rich to apply.

Yes. All you have to do is give up your freedom. Forever.

Although I don't think the slavery thing applies to the Circles. It gets close sometimes, the Tranquil for example and trotting the mages out for war, but I think sticking slavery on it is reaching. More like permanent incarceration based on being born wrong. XD

[Lotion Soronarr]

Adanu wrote...
So mindset equals slavery now? You need a slave mindset to be a slave? I'm not denying mages can be dangerous, so can a warrior. So can an archer. They train to control their fighting skills. Yes, mages can be possessed... which means they get a different sort of training. Enslaving mages over maybes is what broke the circles.

What different training?
You cannot offer an alternative system that would be more effective.

Incarceration can have the implication of one day being able to leave or not. Slavery, in the form of the circles, means they do not. If they leave, they would be chased for the rest of their lives.

Don't ****** in my ear and tell me it's rain.

Quit doing drugs. It's bad for you.

[MisterJB]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
 trotting the mages out for war,

Their aid is requested in times of war, not forced. And even then, only in the time of utmost need such as the Bligths or Exalthed Marches. Most mages are eager to go since it will help improve the standing of the Circle.

[Adanu]

MisterJB wrote...

Adanu wrote...
So mindset equals slavery now? You need a slave mindset to be a slave? I'm not denying mages can be dangerous, so can a warrior. So can an archer. They train to control their fighting skills. Yes, mages can be possessed... which means they get a different sort of training. Enslaving mages over maybes is what broke the circles.

You need to be treated like a slave in order to be a slave which the mages aren't. They have freedoms and rights, they are not treated like proprierty. They are not slaves. I gave example of all of these in my previous post but you chose to ignore and focus solely on a single thing.
Mages live in a luxurious tower where they are fed, clothed, educated. There are million upon millions of people in our real world who would kill to live in those conditions.

Also, magic is more dangerous in the hands of an untrained child like Connor tha a sword is in the hands of an experienced knight like Ser Perth.

I didn't ignore them. I saw them and saw what they are; attempts to twist words to make a system of slavery not be slavery. You're like a politician in that. If they don't have the mindset of a slave, they can't be slaves! If they aren't treated as slaves, they aren't slaves! They are both incarcerated and enslaved.

Modifié par Adanu, 24 novembre 2012 - 04:43 .