Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Because when your arguments get utterly demolished, your only recourse it so complain how mean I am?
Oh, how horribly hostile I am, I called you out on a fallcy!
How can I live with such shame?
....
....
Very easily as it turns out.
Too bad - you get no sympathy points for me.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No you silly little goose.
silentassassin264 wrote...
If someone is going out of their way to be condescending and obnoxious more than likely they are trolling and you are just feeding the troll.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Adanu wrote...
Africans also had the 'right' to eat, sleep, and possibly read if their Owners decided they wanted their slave to read.
Mages, similarly, are allowed to read, sleep, and do magical research because it suits their Templar enslavers. They are allowed to do things because the Templars allowed it. They are not allowed freedom. If they were, they could leave their tower anytime without having a Templar track them down. They don't have rights either... they have 'privileges' that can be revoked anytime. Just look at Asunder.
1. Comparing mages to africans is a fallacy, because mages are nothing like them. In our world, prejudice/profiling based on skin color is silly, because we are functionally the same.
In the word of TheDas, mages and mundanes are NOT functioanlly the same, so profilingand different rules make sense.
2. Being able to go where one wants is NOT the definition of non-slavery. Mages aren't slaves. Period.
It doesn't fit the definition, ti doesn't fit the intent, it doesn't fit the background and the devs themselves denied it.
My words will however fall on deaf ears, since you cannot accept anything that goes agaisnt your little fantasy.
Adanu wrote...
I have no words for just how completely condesending and how much you just twisted everything I said to fit your vision.
Foopydoopydoo wrote...
1. Being unable to do something ≠ to actively stopped from doing something. You're reasoning like Sebastian when he goes "we're all victims of circumstance and we should just accept that!"
2. Proof?
3. Did you play the magi origin? They put bookcases in front of their "rooms" to get some privacy. And if you talk to the apprentices they even comment on how the templars keep staring at them.
4. You do not have the same chance of getting raped outside, its heavily implied that rapes happen quite often in the Circles. We have Anders mention it in DAA and in DAO out of hand, like it happens often. And then we have ser Alrik as well who seems to be have been doing his thing for a while. Outside Circle? We have Vaughn.
Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 24 novembre 2012 - 09:06 .
Herr Uhl wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No you silly little goose.
Could you please stop being condescending? You add nothing of worth by doing it other than poinless vitriol.
This is especially annoying considering you make things up and then treat them as facts.
-blink- OMG I'm debating with a twelve year old. XD
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Adanu wrote...
I have no words for just how completely condesending and how much you just twisted everything I said to fit your vision.
That's what you keep telling to everyone who disagrees with you.
"You are twisting everything".
Even when they supply you with plenty of proof.
Whatever. I doubt anyone takes you seriously anymore.
Modifié par Adanu, 24 novembre 2012 - 09:08 .
I could put together a pretty good case on why mage freedom inevitably leads to mage supremacy, even if different from Tevinter, but that would be pointless because that was not what I said in my previous post.Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Holding up Tevinter as an example of what will happen if mages are free is false equivalency. The Tevinter Imperium's history, culture and religion are all inexorably tied with magic. The nation, as a whole, has been indoctrined to believe that having magic, and better yet being a magister, makes you better. This is NOT the case in the rest of Thedas.
That Tevinter and the Qun expansionism is not open for interpretation. They are. So is the Chantry.The Chantry doesn't help Orlais in its wars (that we know of) but Orlais helps the Chantry in its, every nation in Thedas does in fact ('cept Tevinter). The Chantry just has to point its finger at someone and the nations clamber all over themselves to do its bidding. Know what the Dales, Tevinter and the Qunari all have in common? Different religious views. The only difference there is between the Chantry and all the other players is that so far we have only seen both sides of the coin in places where the Chantry is dominant. Which I think skiews the view by a fair margin. If the first two DA games had taken place in say, Seheron, we'd probably believe that the Qun had it right and everyone else was evil and expansionist and hatin' on the underdog. So far Chantry beliefs have dictated our view on the rest, we never really hear and experience their side of the story. Which should be rectified really.
The elves sacked Val-Royeaux and other orlesian cities. If you put together the elven belief that humans are a disease coupled with a thousand years of racial tension between elves and humans... the elves commited attrocities to the population of Orlais.As for the elves it is true that they play a role in where they are now. But they wouldn't be in that position if (a) the Chantry hadn't handed the Dales over to Orlais and thereby deprived them of their homes, I mean why do that? Why not just force them to renounce their gods? Which they did anyway which just seems excessive at that point but w/e.
True but, as I previously said, the elves are also not doing anything to increase their social standing, content to isolate themselves either in forests or squalor.Where was I? Oh and (
the Chantry doesn't actively put the elves down (anymore) but they don't do anything to reverse the situation either. Which they could if they wanted to.
You soul shall be purified by our steel, Abomination.It seems this will only be settled in multiplayer where thousands upon thousands of Templars will die in evil witchfire. XD
Modifié par MisterJB, 24 novembre 2012 - 09:08 .
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
What you say is heavily implied does not interest me. Only what you can prove.
And you cannot prove your assertion.
Outside you have the exact same chance of getting raped.
Not paying much attention, are you?Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Yah know Lotion dude/dudet you are incredibly belligerent. Everybody else in this thread can seemingly debate without being utterly hostile but you seem to get off on it.
MisterJB wrote...
Not paying much attention, are you?Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Yah know Lotion dude/dudet you are incredibly belligerent. Everybody else in this thread can seemingly debate without being utterly hostile but you seem to get off on it.
Adanu, the person Lotion was responding to, is quick to accuse anyone who doesn't think the Circle System is alvery of being a slaver.
Adanu wrote...
MisterJB wrote...
You need a reality check. If a prisioner escapes, obviously the authorities will pursues.Adanu wrote...
If you don't think that is slavery, you need a reality check.
Mages are dangerous and thus, it is logical to separate them from those they could harm and who might harm them. Circle Mages have rights and have freedoms, they can appear at court to be heard, they share power with the templars, they can visit cities and buy souvenirs, they work for themselves to earn money to mantain their community and their help in times of need is requested, not demanded.
They have the luxury to wonder just how free they are. Look at Orana who can't even understand the concept of "freedom". That is an actual slave.
Circle Mages have no idea how good they have it.
So mindset equals slavery now? You need a slave mindset to be a slave? I'm not denying mages can be dangerous, so can a warrior. So can an archer. They train to control their fighting skills. Yes, mages can be possessed... which means they get a different sort of training. Enslaving mages over maybes is what broke the circles.
They have no idea how good they have it being enslaved? Great... it's people like you who probably thought the Africans America enslaved had no idea how good they had it with them.
Adanu wrote...
The naive? One of the men who was intrumental in making Fereldan as a nation as naive? Well, at least we know where you stand. Salvery is well and fine if 'it's for the good of all'.
I'm sure the Africans taken for slavery felt the same way.
Modifié par MisterJB, 24 novembre 2012 - 09:29 .
Hey I resent that my Elf Wardens were restless wenches.MisterJB wrote...
I could put together a pretty good case on why mage freedom inevitably leads to mage supremacy, even if different from Tevinter, but that would be pointless because that was not what I said in my previous post.Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Holding up Tevinter as an example of what will happen if mages are free is false equivalency. The Tevinter Imperium's history, culture and religion are all inexorably tied with magic. The nation, as a whole, has been indoctrined to believe that having magic, and better yet being a magister, makes you better. This is NOT the case in the rest of Thedas.
I said that the quality of life in Andrastian nations is superior to that encountered in Tevinter if you're not a Magister.That Tevinter and the Qun expansionism is not open for interpretation. They are. So is the Chantry.The Chantry doesn't help Orlais in its wars (that we know of) but Orlais helps the Chantry in its, every nation in Thedas does in fact ('cept Tevinter). The Chantry just has to point its finger at someone and the nations clamber all over themselves to do its bidding. Know what the Dales, Tevinter and the Qunari all have in common? Different religious views. The only difference there is between the Chantry and all the other players is that so far we have only seen both sides of the coin in places where the Chantry is dominant. Which I think skiews the view by a fair margin. If the first two DA games had taken place in say, Seheron, we'd probably believe that the Qun had it right and everyone else was evil and expansionist and hatin' on the underdog. So far Chantry beliefs have dictated our view on the rest, we never really hear and experience their side of the story. Which should be rectified really.
The ideology of a person is, more often than not, dictated by the society he was raised in. However, despite being born in Western Europe which is the source of inspiration for Andrastian Society, I like to think I can evaluate other societies without being much biased. I can see valuable ideas in the Qun but that doesn't change the fact they spread these ideas in a violent manner. Thus, the humans have a right to defend their culture.The elves sacked Val-Royeaux and other orlesian cities. If you put together the elven belief that humans are a disease coupled with a thousand years of racial tension between elves and humans... the elves commited attrocities to the population of Orlais.As for the elves it is true that they play a role in where they are now. But they wouldn't be in that position if (a) the Chantry hadn't handed the Dales over to Orlais and thereby deprived them of their homes, I mean why do that? Why not just force them to renounce their gods? Which they did anyway which just seems excessive at that point but w/e.
I expect the humans were enraged by this and, in their fury, decided to completely destroy elven society. Really, the fact that genocide wasn't commited is probrably thanks to the Chantry who ordered the human kings to shelter elven refugees.
True but, as I previously said, the elves are also not doing anything to increase their social standing, content to isolate themselves either in forests or squalor.Where was I? Oh and (
You can bring a horse to water and etc.You soul shall be purified by our steel, Abomination.It seems this will only be settled in multiplayer where thousands upon thousands of Templars will die in evil witchfire. XD
MisterJB wrote...
Not paying much attention, are you?Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Yah know Lotion dude/dudet you are incredibly belligerent. Everybody else in this thread can seemingly debate without being utterly hostile but you seem to get off on it.
Adanu, the person Lotion was responding to, is quick to accuse anyone who doesn't think the Circle System is alvery of being a slaver.
Sorry?Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Hey I resent that my Elf Wardens were restless wenches.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Herr Uhl wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No you silly little goose.
Could you please stop being condescending? You add nothing of worth by doing it other than poinless vitriol.
This is especially annoying considering you make things up and then treat them as facts.
I take it you never heard of that phrase? It ain't condescending.
False eqvivalence.Oh, pot, kettle, black and all that jazz.
silentassassin264 wrote...
The problem Iakus is that the Inquisition was still founded to be anti magical and anti heretics before it joined the Chantry as the Seekers and Templars. That is still like protestants or Jews leading the Spanish inquisition part 2. By associating the Pc with the inquisition you are associating them with the anti mage anti heretic protons templars.
Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Except lotion dude is belligerent to everyone. xp
Modifié par Auintus, 24 novembre 2012 - 09:48 .
Herr Uhl wrote...
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
What you say is heavily implied does not interest me. Only what you can prove.
And you cannot prove your assertion.
And yet you assert that there is no difference in rates.
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