1297 réponses à ce sujet

[Adanu]

Auintus wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Some details are missing, such as families and what privileges allowed during their training. The training process itself needs to be able to accomodate new developments... but it is a good basis for a start.

Blood magic, for example, needs to stop being such a stigma and be further researched. There may very well be a way to block blood control we don't know about. The Templars also would have to stop pretending Phylacteries are anything but a blood magic leash. You also need an internal affairs type force that has some accountability and effectiveness. Lambert was an **** and it reflected in how extreme Templars had gotten. I'm not sold that a Phylactery is a good idea, but it might be a necessary evil... if used right, and not just willy nilly.

Yes, it would be something of a school. Mages would have to attend, but could be visited, and would be allowed monitored trips outside. The training would gear primarily towards control and recognizing and thwarting demonic influences. The rest would be up to the individual mage.
Blood magic would be researched, but those mages would have to remain in the Circle for their research. In addition, any mages who wanted to remain in the Circle could do so.
Phylacteries would be used to hunt mages who were abusing their powers.
A mage/templar council of sorts, people with first-hand experience, would be an overseeing group over the affairs of the Circle and the mage population.
Did I miss anything important?

Blood magic research within the circle is iffy, but this implies blood magic would be unacceptable outside the circle. Is that what you are saying?

Secondly, the definition of 'abuse' would have to be cleared up a bit. It is a subjective term sometimes, but some ground rules would be good.

A mage/Templar Council has merit, but you carry the issue of mages feeling threatened by Templars from history. This comes back to the need for effective IA. You also carry the risk of Phylacteries being abused by Templars.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Auintus wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

We already established they aren't slaves, so there's no point in arguing in that direction.

And as we ALSO established, mages aren't like other people.
We DO lock up people who we deem are too dangerous b.t.w.

I...That was a parallel. Slave uprisings because they did not like their treatment. The mages are no different.

And you know what happenes in such cases? The uprising is crushed and life goes on as usual.

True, but many people are not like other people. It's called being unique. It comes with good and bad.
Agreed. We simply draw different lines for "too dangerous."

Different kinds of being unique. A distinction you fail to relize and refuse to see.

And I'm curious as what you think would be "too dangerous".
Having been on these forums for a while, I ran into people arguing that reapers aren't really that dangerous.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Auintus wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
What do they say about making fun of fundies by using sarcasm again?
My powst was deliberately written mimicking the pro-mage zealots.

But as for your second part: No.
I can judge a man by his extra-ordinary abilities.

Oh. Oh, good. I though you were serious. Can't hear sarcasm over the internet.

I seem to recall a musician who could compose masterpieces despite being deaf. Certainly that is not an ordinary ability. Besides, the ability itself is no threat in trained hands.

Bethoven? He was gifted, but his abiltiy is hardly extraordinary. Or dangerous.

And there is no "trained hands". There is no training that makes mages safe.

[Lotion Soronarr]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

We already established they aren't slaves, so there's no point in arguing in that direction.

No WE didn't.  No one presented a convincing argument for me to change my position.  Some people feel it is slavery and some, like you, do not.  There is no point arguing because neither side is going to budge, not because someone has proved something.

But we did - you lot just won't accept it.

The definition of the word doesn't fit (if you ever bother to look it up).
The creators of the world themselves say it is not.
Your word is meaningless next to that, becasue the reality of TheDas is what the writers say it is.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Adanu wrote...
I stopped caring about appealing to a high intellectual kind of debate when people like lotion started attacking me, and refused to see the Circles as prettied up slavery.

:lol::lol:

It is THEN you stopepd caring?
Funny, I could swear you enver did. At any point.

Whoever doesn't support your dellusions is the enemy? K, guess I'm the enemy then.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Fuggyt wrote...
Your Sarcasm Detector is malfunctioning.  Security is never preferable to freedom.  But don't take my word for it.  Take Ben Franklin's, who said, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Why the hell should I care about what Ben Franklin said?
He means nothing to me.

Also, I consdier his statment idiotic.
And also, Ben didn't live in a world with mages.

[Lotion Soronarr]

rapscallioness wrote...

The whole system is flawed. They even turn Templars in to junkies in order to fight abominations. When the most logical choice to fight that type of magic would be to have other mages fight them.

There's nothing logical about that choice.
Also, most templars we meet are decent, reasonable fellows.

The rest of you post is just wishfull thinking without any basis in reality.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Adanu wrote...
I'm arguing that trying to strangle anyone, mages or non-mages -in terms of freedom and free will- will backfire one day. It happened with the Circles, it happened in any revolution in RL.

And mage freedom will backfire someday too.
Yoiur point?

I'm saying that a moderated solution that doesn't involve effectively enslaving mages is a great first step. First, the current Templars have to be removed from power and their war on mages has to end.

Circels ARE a moderate solution.
But I don't expect you extremists to ever accept that.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

My ideal system would be where phylacteries are kept on all mages just in case they go bat**** and the Circle, as someone else has mentioned, as a school. Though without the templars. Mages can teach mages and stop them if need be. Also in my ideal situation the templars would all die in hellfire and the hatemongering Chantry would be a purely religious organization and not the pseudo religious/military/political thing it is now.

I see a lot of hatemongering here, but it doesn't seem to eminate from the Chantry.

[TEWR]

rapscallioness wrote...

The whole system is flawed. They even turn Templars in to junkies in order to fight abominations. When the most logical choice to fight that type of magic would be to have other mages fight them.

They do.

Or did, anyway.

Centuries past in Thedas' history, Demons would be fought by Templars and Mages. You don't see this happening in the current times however, barring some very exceptional circumstances. It's no longer a normal occurrence.

If it happens, it's usually because the Mages were forced to fight these things out of a sense of survival, not because the Templars requested their aid.

Mainly, the reason it doesn't happen nowadays is because Demons of Pride can render themselves immune to magical attacks and dispel it just as the Templars can. That said, this is simply because the arcane arts -- all of them -- are eternal in the Fade. Demons can remember all manner of spells as Torpor tells us, where he remarks on the rarity of seeing two forgotten magicks in one day.

So if this wasn't something Demons always knew, it was something they picked up on and began to do themselves.

And by forgotten, I mean in the sense that Thedas hasn't seen/used them for a while, but the Demons knew about them.

Of course, the gameplay for Pride Demons -- hell, for all demons and Abominations -- has them as pathetic enemies.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 novembre 2012 - 10:37 .

[Fredward]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

My ideal system would be where phylacteries are kept on all mages just in case they go bat**** and the Circle, as someone else has mentioned, as a school. Though without the templars. Mages can teach mages and stop them if need be. Also in my ideal situation the templars would all die in hellfire and the hatemongering Chantry would be a purely religious organization and not the pseudo religious/military/political thing it is now.

I see a lot of hatemongering here, but it doesn't seem to eminate from the Chantry.

I was being hyperbolic brah.

But the templar order really has to be disbanded since their mission at the moment seems to be less on "capture the mages" and more "kill all mages" at this point it seems it's either mages or templars. Not that capturing would be okay mind you but I've basically made peace with the fact that you and I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever see eye to eye on that front. XD

[Lotion Soronarr]

You are right. We won't.

Mages are being unreasonable and have proven untrustworthy and irresponsible.

[Dave of Canada]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Fuggyt wrote...

Freedom is indivisible.  You either have it or you don't.  It's also non-negotiable.  Never settle for anything less.

Typhoid Mary would have loved some pro-mage people as lawyers.

I'm sure the plague victims of ages past would have loved it too.

[Plaintiff]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And you know what happenes in such cases? The uprising is crushed and life goes on as usual.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What history class have you been taking?

[SpunkyMonkey]

Since when did morphing Dragon Age into COD have anything to do with choice?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And you know what happenes in such cases? The uprising is crushed and life goes on as usual.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What history class have you been taking?

Aparently the real ones.

Most rebellions and uprisings never got anywhere. Of course, they are rarely mentioned because they are not interesting, never having changed anything.

Mages themselves are a pitiful minority with no real support from the populace or any other insutution or power out there. Their rebellion cannot suceed.

[Dave of Canada]

Plaintiff wrote...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What history class have you been taking?

I'd question you the same. Most rebellions get crushed or never make it out of it's infancy, the "popular" ones are the only successful ones because no-one cares about failed rebellions. Hell, half the successful ones are crushed immediately afterwards with the thanks of the nation/group's enemies.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 26 novembre 2012 - 11:21 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I hope we will see more reasonable people like Lotion Soronnar, BlueMagitek and Dave of Canada in this thread.

[Plaintiff]

Legatus Arianus wrote...

I hope we will see more reasonable people like Lotion Soronnar, BlueMagitek and Dave of Canada in this thread.

"Reasonable" being anyone who agrees with you, naturally.

[Dave of Canada]

Legatus Arianus wrote...

I hope we will see more reasonable people like Lotion Soronnar, BlueMagitek and Dave of Canada in this thread.

I just wish we didn't have people mentioning real world history as if it's relevant and even their references to real world history are factually incorrect.

[FaWa]

How does it feel knowing the Templars have some of the most boring (Cullen) and vile (Carver, Fenris, Meredith) characters in the game?

[Dave of Canada]

FaWa wrote...

How does it feel knowing the Templars have some of the most boring (Cullen) and vile (Carver, Fenris, Meredith) characters in the game?

OH NO, YOU'VE CONVINCED ME THAT TEMPLAR ARE BORING. I'LL HELP THE MAGES NOW. THANK YOU FOR SHOWING ME THE LIGHT.

[Lotion Soronarr]

FaWa wrote...

How does it feel knowing the Templars have some of the most boring (Cullen) and vile (Carver, Fenris, Meredith) characters in the game?

*looks up "how to translate FaWa speak to english"*

Let's see..... boring...boring...

boring - a character you enjoy seeing more off

Your language is strange Sir, but to answer your question - very good.

[Lucy Glitter]

FaWa wrote...

How does it feel knowing the Templars have some of the most boring (Cullen) and vile (Carver, Fenris, Meredith) characters in the game?

GURL DID NOT JUST GO THERE.

GURL.

NO.

GURLLL.

JUST NO GURL.

STOP GURL.

[FaWa]

l'll keep going gurl