1297 réponses à ce sujet

[MartialArtsMaster]

If I may play the devil's advocate, Sanunes, I presume you and I are both Americans? Well, WE started a revolution out of nowhere (or at least, after about a decade of buildup, which in the grand scheme of things almost amounts to out of nowhere). Guess what, we beat the British empire, and now you and I don't have to live in fear that British soldiers will randomly ask that we let them use our homes as bases from which to fight.

[Lotion Soronarr]

MartialArtsMaster wrote...
You argue that we have failed to achieve our goal because we still have robbery, smoking, wars, and the Darwin Award winners who get themselves killed. I would argue, however, that we've actually succeeded in our goal, since not everyone behaves like that.

Are you implying that everyoen behaved like that before?

Given that "the average daily citizen", including yourself, does not behave like an **** 24/7, that is something I would consider an improvement to our supposedly "natural" selves.

But your "average daily citizen" will do stupid and hurtful lthings occasionaly.
What is 100% accurate is that humans really don't use common sense 24/7. There are too many things that can throw a spanner in our self-control and reasoning.



People loose their s*** all the time. What would you think would happen if a drunk mage gets into an argument? Or if he finds out his wife is cheating on him? Or his girlfrind dumped him? Or if he just gets hit by a wave of depression and sez "f*** it"?

YOU, for example, clearly don't constantly engage in unethical behavior, and you seem to have chosen to live up to moral ideals to the best extent that you can, or you wouldn't be on this forum arguing ethics with me at ALL, much less arguing that you're more ethical than I am because you support the templars instead of the mages. 

Ethics are debatable more or less. I'm supporting the practical...or in this case the doable.
Total Mage Freedom plans are as viable so Dyson Sphere construction.

And did you perhaps miss the part where I cleary said I wouldnt' trust myself with so much power?

You also begin from the presupposition that a) I "can't do anything about it" and  that we only have two options.

We can't do anything substantial anyway.
The templars already have far better oversight than ANY comparable institution in our medieval period. Wihout modern technologies and practices, there's really not much you can do to improve upon that.

Simply put, you are holding the Circles/Templars to a impossible standard that they don't have the means to achieve.

It also is in fact possible to "do something about" societal injustices.
* SNIP*

Only if specific conditions are met.

[silentassassin264]

Dave of Canada wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

The Inquisition brought about chaos and overthrew the then current system. *snip*

No. The Inquisition was a result of the breaking down of the Tevinter Imperium, they didn't overthrow anything.

The rise of Andraste led to the idea of something other than Tevinter existing, men and women rose up against their oppressors and it didn't go far until Tevinter was overthrown after the Blight begun.

The destruction of Tevinter led to a large amount of cults devoted to Andraste to be formed and grow strength as the Tevinter faith in the Old Gods weakened, one cult grew beyond the others and eventually became the Chantry. The Chantry grew strength when the Orlesian Emperor embraced it.

The Inquisition were simply mage-hunters who hated everything Tevinter stood for, hunted down magic and was eventually teamed up with the Chantry after the mages protested their inability to learn their abilites aside from lighting candles. Under peaceful circumstances, the mages and the chantry created the Circle system and reigned in the Inqusition to serve as protectors.

The Circle and the Chantry wouldn't have existed if circumstance didn't lead up to it. Starting up a revolution out of nowhere and hoping all of society will change to accomdate it can only end in disaster.

Codex entry: The Seekers of Truth
 data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D Edit data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D Talk06,590[/i]PAGES ON  THIS WIKICodex entry
The Seekers of TruthDragon Age II Section:LoreLocation:A note in the Gallows Courtyard(to the west atop the stairs) in Act 1Codex text

Ser Whitmore,When I mentioned powers greater than the templars, I didn't mean the Chantry. Sure they command the templars, but that was not always so—the Inquisition once hunted heretics and cultists as well as mages, and their reign of terror ended only with the inception of the Circle of Magi. They became the Templar Order, for good or ill the watchers of the mages and the martial arm of the Chantry.It was a mutually beneficial arrangement, but few know that the Chantry created yet another order to watch over the templars: the Seekers of Truth. I know little of them myself, but I can say the following things with certainty: they serve the Divine and they are feared. When a Seeker steps from the shadows, templars run for cover—because why would he come unless the templars somehow failed in their duties? Seekers are extremely effective investigating abuses within the Circle and hunting particularly evasive apostates. It's said they are immune to a blood mage's mind control and possess the ability to read minds or erase memories, but this is likely exaggeration.So we return to my original dilemma. Who watches powers greater than that of the templars? One assumes it's the Divine, but how much could She know about their activities when their very existence is a mystery to most?
—A letter from an unknown priest, found in the Grand Cathedral archives, 8:80 Blessed


You will notice since you have willfully been ignoring the codex that it says that the inquisition hunted down heretics.  Heretics would be anyone who believed differently than they did.  The Disciples of Andraste that I mentioned would be heretics.  Anyone who interpretted that magic shal not rule over man differently than they did was a heretic.  They became the most popular religion or Andrastian sect because they destroyed everyone who believed differently.  You can ignore what is in the game all you want but you are most definitely wrong.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 26 novembre 2012 - 09:46 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

silentassassin264 wrote...
The Inquisition brought about chaos and overthrew the then current system.  It was not just Tevinter back then.  Look at the Disciples of Andraste.  They had mages in the society and they were not Tevinter.  There were many other ways in which mages and mundanes lived together without stripping the rights of the others.   Inquisition came in, wiped out all the heretics that had mages living with mundanes and put in their own order of killing/locking up mages.  You are using a logical fallacy of making things A or B when there are other options.

And you are making a logical fallacy of thinking that if you can immagine it, than it is achievable.

[silentassassin264]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...
The Inquisition brought about chaos and overthrew the then current system.  It was not just Tevinter back then.  Look at the Disciples of Andraste.  They had mages in the society and they were not Tevinter.  There were many other ways in which mages and mundanes lived together without stripping the rights of the others.   Inquisition came in, wiped out all the heretics that had mages living with mundanes and put in their own order of killing/locking up mages.  You are using a logical fallacy of making things A or B when there are other options.

And you are making a logical fallacy of thinking that if you can immagine it, than it is achievable.

And you are clearly ignoring that the above proof that it not only is imaginable but it happened.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And did you perhaps miss the part where I cleary said I wouldnt' trust myself with so much power?

But if you had that much power, would you care?

[CaptainBlackGold]

Has anyone quoted Lord Acton yet -"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely..."

[General User]

I'm sure there will be both "pro-mage" and "pro-Templar" options.

With a middle path available for more moderate and reasonable player characters. "Pro-Chantry" would be the obvious candidate for that.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Have we ever had official word on whether blood magic is INHERENTLY evil? Like if you use it you WILL become some raving lunatic? Or do people just assume that because, well... blood. xp

I couldn't find any reply, so here's mine. The official word is that blood magic is not inherently evil, it's just that the power it grants you goes to your head more often than not.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
I threw up a little in my mouth right then. "Yes lets ignore gross injustice and barbarism now because, hey maybe in ANOTHER millenium it might mature into something beautiful! "

Like a freakish hate catepillar turning into a beautiful love butterfly. Cocoon stage give or take two thousand years. XD

Then throw up, because that's how it is.

Things take time. And some thing require certain prequisites - prequisites that simply aren't there.
You cannot simply change things by force without taking those things into acount.

Martin Luther King's opponents used the same logic.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

General User wrote...

I'm sure there will be both "pro-mage" and "pro-Templar" options.

With a middle path available for more moderate and reasonable player characters. "Pro-Chantry" would be the obvious candidate for that.

Pro-Divine, more like. I get the impression that she's a good deal more liberal than the rest of the Chantry, but aware that mages still need to be restricted.

[Lotion Soronarr]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Codex entry: The Seekers of Truth
 data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D Edit data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D Talk06,590[/i]PAGES ON  THIS WIKICodex entry
The Seekers of TruthDragon Age II Section:LoreLocation:A note in the Gallows Courtyard(to the west atop the stairs) in Act 1Codex text

Ser Whitmore,When I mentioned powers greater than the templars, I didn't mean the Chantry. Sure they command the templars, but that was not always so—the Inquisition once hunted heretics and cultists as well as mages, and their reign of terror ended only with the inception of the Circle of Magi. They became the Templar Order, for good or ill the watchers of the mages and the martial arm of the Chantry.It was a mutually beneficial arrangement, but few know that the Chantry created yet another order to watch over the templars: the Seekers of Truth. I know little of them myself, but I can say the following things with certainty: they serve the Divine and they are feared. When a Seeker steps from the shadows, templars run for cover—because why would he come unless the templars somehow failed in their duties? Seekers are extremely effective investigating abuses within the Circle and hunting particularly evasive apostates. It's said they are immune to a blood mage's mind control and possess the ability to read minds or erase memories, but this is likely exaggeration.So we return to my original dilemma. Who watches powers greater than that of the templars? One assumes it's the Divine, but how much could She know about their activities when their very existence is a mystery to most?
—A letter from an unknown priest, found in the Grand Cathedral archives, 8:80 Blessed


You will notice since you have willfully been ignoring the codex that it says that the inquisition hunted down heretics. Heretics would be anyone who believed differently than they did.  The Disciples of Andraste that I mentioned would be heretics.  Anyone who interpretted that magic shal not rule over man differently than they did was a heretic.  They became the most popular religion or Andrastian sect because they destroyed everyone who believed differently.  You can ignore what is in the game all you want but you are most definitely wrong.

Notice the underlined?
According to the very fluff source you value so much, the Circles have an overisght system and it is very effective.

Also - assasin, you don't get to decide who is a heretic and not for the old inquisition.
You don't know their standards, so stop pretending you do. "
They destroyed everyone who believed differently" is NOT a fact, even tough it may be likely.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 26 novembre 2012 - 10:24 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Then throw up, because that's how it is.

Things take time. And some thing require certain prequisites - prequisites that simply aren't there.
You cannot simply change things by force without taking those things into acount.

Martin Luther King's opponents used the same logic.

And why should I care what they said?
Plenty of historical figures said plenty of things - sometimes wrong and sometimes right.

[silentassassin264]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Notice the underlined?
According to the very fluff source you value so much, the Circles have an overisght system and it is very effective.

Also - assasin, you don't get to decide who is a heretic and not for the old inquisition.
You don't know their standards, so stop pretending you do. "
They destroyed everyone who believed differently" is NOT a fact, even tough it may be likely.

The codex says things that are opinion and historical fact.  The historical fact is what the inquisition did.  Even given that, you are still ignoring the facts.  Heresy means heresy.  Anybody who interpreted what Andraste said differently that what they said was a heretic.  That is what the word means.  The fact that you keep on ignoring it does not change the word's definition.  

Two, you picked the opinion.  Seekers being extremely effective at rooting out abuses is relative.  Meredith was able to tranq Harrowed mages for at least since gameplay in Kirkwall starts in Act 1 with Karl.  Meredith is never reprimanded and continues to flagrantly ignore establish Chantry law for the duration of the game.  Granted the Seekers are investigating in the aftermath with Cass and Varric but they never stopped that.  As far as we have seen, Seekers are as effective as a Senate Committee investigating abuses by a President of the United States (which is to say next to useless).

[The Elder King]

General User wrote...

I'm sure there will be both "pro-mage" and "pro-Templar" options.

With a middle path available for more moderate and reasonable player characters. "Pro-Chantry" would be the obvious candidate for that.

I think that there are moderate and reasonable pro-mages and pro-templars supporters, as well there are extremist supporters in both groups. Though we don't know how the mages and templars will act as a group and what will be their goals in DA3, so a neutral/middle path is something I really want, as a safety in the case that the templars and mages's goals are too extremist.

[TobiTobsen]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Notice the underlined?
According to the very fluff source you value so much, the Circles have an overisght system and it is very effective.

Also - assasin, you don't get to decide who is a heretic and not for the old inquisition.
You don't know their standards, so stop pretending you do. "
They destroyed everyone who believed differently" is NOT a fact, even tough it may be likely.

The codex says things that are opinion and historical fact.  The historical fact is what the inquisition did.  Even given that, you are still ignoring the facts.  Heresy means heresy.  Anybody who interpreted what Andraste said differently that what they said was a heretic.  That is what the word means.  The fact that you keep on ignoring it does not change the word's definition.  

Two, you picked the opinion.  Seekers being extremely effective at rooting out abuses is relative.  Meredith was able to tranq Harrowed mages for at least since gameplay in Kirkwall starts in Act 1 with Karl.  Meredith is never reprimanded and continues to flagrantly ignore establish Chantry law for the duration of the game.  Granted the Seekers are investigating in the aftermath with Cass and Varric but they never stopped that.  As far as we have seen, Seekers are as effective as a Senate Committee investigating abuses by a President of the United States (which is to say next to useless).

Seems like you're simply interpreting the codex in a way that supports your own position. Convenient, isn't it?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Then throw up, because that's how it is.

Things take time. And some thing require certain prequisites - prequisites that simply aren't there.
You cannot simply change things by force without taking those things into acount.

Martin Luther King's opponents used the same logic.

And why should I care what they said?
Plenty of historical figures said plenty of things - sometimes wrong and sometimes right.

In this case, apparently the former. We all know what King's movement resulted in.

What I'm saying is that if you're saying "Wait," you need to be able to say "Wait for X." If you're not just advocating non-action, but instead advocating delayed action, then why is the delay necessary? Perhaps they need a sympathetic Divine? Wait no more, they have that. A complete breakdown in the system? It basically just combusted. Wait for the abuse to stop on its own? Frankly, they got lucky when they received a top dog who supported them. I don't believe they're getting a better oppurtunity than this for quite some time, especially since she now has good reason not to listen to the bigoted head seeker.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 26 novembre 2012 - 11:22 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TobiTobsen wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Notice the underlined?
According to the very fluff source you value so much, the Circles have an overisght system and it is very effective.

Also - assasin, you don't get to decide who is a heretic and not for the old inquisition.
You don't know their standards, so stop pretending you do. "
They destroyed everyone who believed differently" is NOT a fact, even tough it may be likely.

The codex says things that are opinion and historical fact.  The historical fact is what the inquisition did.  Even given that, you are still ignoring the facts.  Heresy means heresy.  Anybody who interpreted what Andraste said differently that what they said was a heretic.  That is what the word means.  The fact that you keep on ignoring it does not change the word's definition.  

Two, you picked the opinion.  Seekers being extremely effective at rooting out abuses is relative.  Meredith was able to tranq Harrowed mages for at least since gameplay in Kirkwall starts in Act 1 with Karl.  Meredith is never reprimanded and continues to flagrantly ignore establish Chantry law for the duration of the game.  Granted the Seekers are investigating in the aftermath with Cass and Varric but they never stopped that.  As far as we have seen, Seekers are as effective as a Senate Committee investigating abuses by a President of the United States (which is to say next to useless).

Seems like you're simply interpreting the codex in a way that supports your own position. Convenient, isn't it?

If by that, you mean, "interpreting in ways that explain why the game contradicts it..."

[Lotion Soronarr]

silentassassin264 wrote...
The codex says things that are opinion and historical fact.  The historical fact is what the inquisition did.  Even given that, you are still ignoring the facts.  Heresy means heresy.  Anybody who interpreted what Andraste said differently that what they said was a heretic.  That is what the word means.  The fact that you keep on ignoring it does not change the word's definition. 

And you don't know the specifics of the doctrine. You don't know who qualifies as heretic or not.
So don't give me non of that crap.
There is a LOT of wiggle room for what someone might call a heretic.

Two, you picked the opinion.  Seekers being extremely effective at rooting out abuses is relative.  Meredith was able to tranq Harrowed mages for at least since gameplay in Kirkwall starts in Act 1 with Karl.  Meredith is never reprimanded and continues to flagrantly ignore establish Chantry law for the duration of the game.  Granted the Seekers are investigating in the aftermath with Cass and Varric but they never stopped that.  As far as we have seen, Seekers are as effective as a Senate Committee investigating abuses by a President of the United States (which is to say next to useless).

Statiscial outlier.
You have to prove that the Kirkwall Circle is the norm and that everything you think was going on like you think was going in that Circle, did in fact go on exactly as you imagine it and as frequent as you imagine it.

The game contradicts many things specified in Lore, because gameplay.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 26 novembre 2012 - 11:30 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
What I'm saying is that if you're saying "Wait," you need to be able to say "Wait for X." If you're not just advocating non-action, but instead advocating delayed action, then why is the delay necessary? Perhaps they need a sympathetic Divine? Wait no more, they have that. A complete breakdown in the system? It basically just combusted. Wait for the abuse to stop on its own? Frankly, they got lucky when they received a top dog who supported them. I don't believe they're getting a better oppurtunity than this for quite some time, especially since she now has good reason not to listen to the bigoted head seeker.

To get what many mage supportesrs on the thread want you need a miracle.

To get substantially better oversight you need more advancements in communication, travel and oversight technology and also a huge increase of resources - everything else is minimal improvement at best.

Mages walking around free with happy populace?
Never gonna happen. Cannot happen in any believable world.
By their nature mages require to be segregated.

[Dave of Canada]

silentassassin264 wrote...

The codex says things that are opinion and historical fact.  The historical fact is what the inquisition did.

...

Meredith was able to tranq Harrowed mages for at least since gameplay in Kirkwall starts in Act 1 with Karl.

When did Meredith allow Karl to be tranquil? The only one we know who's responsible was a man who abused his abilities in secret and went against Meredith and Elthina's orders.

Meredith is never reprimanded and continues to flagrantly ignore establish Chantry law for the duration of the game.

When does she does she ignore Chantry law aside from Act 3? Act 3 was when she was insane and the Divine had Seekers involved to investigate the issue.

Be dismissive about Seekers but don't pretend they weren't there.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 26 novembre 2012 - 11:30 .

[TobiTobsen]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Notice the underlined?
According to the very fluff source you value so much, the Circles have an overisght system and it is very effective.

Also - assasin, you don't get to decide who is a heretic and not for the old inquisition.
You don't know their standards, so stop pretending you do. "
They destroyed everyone who believed differently" is NOT a fact, even tough it may be likely.

The codex says things that are opinion and historical fact.  The historical fact is what the inquisition did.  Even given that, you are still ignoring the facts.  Heresy means heresy.  Anybody who interpreted what Andraste said differently that what they said was a heretic.  That is what the word means.  The fact that you keep on ignoring it does not change the word's definition.  

Two, you picked the opinion.  Seekers being extremely effective at rooting out abuses is relative.  Meredith was able to tranq Harrowed mages for at least since gameplay in Kirkwall starts in Act 1 with Karl.  Meredith is never reprimanded and continues to flagrantly ignore establish Chantry law for the duration of the game.  Granted the Seekers are investigating in the aftermath with Cass and Varric but they never stopped that.  As far as we have seen, Seekers are as effective as a Senate Committee investigating abuses by a President of the United States (which is to say next to useless).

Seems like you're simply interpreting the codex in a way that supports your own position. Convenient, isn't it?

If by that, you mean, "interpreting in ways that explain why the game contradicts it..."

The game also lets abominations pop out of the ground and mercenaries rain from the sky, while we slaughter pride demons by the dozens.

If we would take everything at face value what the game shows us, then we all could just stop discussing the lore or fluff, since that's all been undermined a long time ago.

[silentassassin264]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Seems like you're simply interpreting the codex in a way that supports your own position. Convenient, isn't it?

No, I an interpreting it with reading comprehension.  That codex is pretty much saying in real world terms that "the Holocaust was the party that shall not be named was ethnic cleansing as well as just plain undesirables cleansing.  BUT, the European Union won the Nobel Peace prize for preserving the unity and preventing something like that from happening again."  The fact is the Holocaust was X.  The opinion is the EU did Y.  Europe is not over yet.  We can't say with any certainty what the European Union has accomplished because we can't look in retrospect.  The EU could fail the whole Greece issue and result in WW3 for all we know.  The same with this.  We know what the Inquisition did but at the time the codex was written, how the Seekers kept the templars in place was just an opinion because everything was intact and you couldn't see the end.  They might have done a good job in any abuse that they encountered like the EU with Yugoslavia (or rather the US but whatever) but Meredith's abuses ultimately were unchecked and caused the collapse of the system like Greece/Spain could for the EU.  If you cannot see that then that is your own reading comprehension problem.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...
The codex says things that are opinion and historical fact.  The historical fact is what the inquisition did.  Even given that, you are still ignoring the facts.  Heresy means heresy.  Anybody who interpreted what Andraste said differently that what they said was a heretic.  That is what the word means.  The fact that you keep on ignoring it does not change the word's definition. 

And you don't know the specifics of the doctrine. You don't know who qualifies as heretic or not.
So don't give me non of that crap.
There is a LOT of wiggle room for what someone might call a heretic.

The specifics of the Doctrine is what the Chantry teaches presently.  They did not have mage reverend fathers and they did not teach Andraste was a dragon for starters.  They would have been heretics.  There is not wiggle room for heresy.  Either you believe the same or you don't.  I am not going to sit here and argue with you ignoring the meaning of a word because it doesn't fit your story.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Two, you picked the opinion.  Seekers being extremely effective at rooting out abuses is relative.  Meredith was able to tranq Harrowed mages for at least since gameplay in Kirkwall starts in Act 1 with Karl.  Meredith is never reprimanded and continues to flagrantly ignore establish Chantry law for the duration of the game.  Granted the Seekers are investigating in the aftermath with Cass and Varric but they never stopped that.  As far as we have seen, Seekers are as effective as a Senate Committee investigating abuses by a President of the United States (which is to say next to useless).

Statiscial outlier.
You have to prove that the Kirkwall Circle is the norm and that everything you think was going on like you think was going in that Circle, did in fact go on exactly as you imagine it and as frequent as you imagine it.

See first response to other guy.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 26 novembre 2012 - 11:37 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
What I'm saying is that if you're saying "Wait," you need to be able to say "Wait for X." If you're not just advocating non-action, but instead advocating delayed action, then why is the delay necessary? Perhaps they need a sympathetic Divine? Wait no more, they have that. A complete breakdown in the system? It basically just combusted. Wait for the abuse to stop on its own? Frankly, they got lucky when they received a top dog who supported them. I don't believe they're getting a better oppurtunity than this for quite some time, especially since she now has good reason not to listen to the bigoted head seeker.

To get what many mage supportesrs on the thread want you need a miracle.

To get substantially better oversight you need more advancements in communication, travel and oversight technology and also a huge increase of resources - everything else is minimal improvement at best.

They have the communication technology, and the Circles all have it. If the First Enchanter could simply call the Seekers whenever they were needed, and the Seekers send someone on a reasonably fast ship, that would still be better than what the Circles have now. Or, if they can make more seeing stones, the first Enchanter could simply call a regional branch, and they get there even faster.

Mages walking around free with happy populace?
Never gonna happen. Cannot happen in any believable world.
By their nature mages require to be segregated.

I know that mages are dangerous. You don't need to tell me that. Still, there are believable worlds where mages can walk free, mostly by either making magic more common, or just dropping that "abomination" thing, which Bioware probably invented just so that the Circles are necessary. (For that matter, how likely are mages to turn after the Harrowing, unless they turn to demonology? I adknowledge that it's unsafe to risk it, but how unsafe are we talking?)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 26 novembre 2012 - 11:57 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...


Seems like you're simply interpreting the codex in a way that supports your own position. Convenient, isn't it?

If by that, you mean, "interpreting in ways that explain why the game contradicts it..."

The game also lets abominations pop out of the ground and mercenaries rain from the sky, while we slaughter pride demons by the dozens.

If we would take everything at face value what the game shows us, then we all could just stop discussing the lore or fluff, since that's all been undermined a long time ago.

Okay. Now argue against the thing where Meredith is able to tranq mages and get away with it.

If my impression of the game is correct, the themes of the two messed up factions eventually going to all out war is the underlying pattern of the framed story. And when Cass hears the story, she filters out all the obvious stuff you described, and said that she believes most of the bits that contribute to the underlying theme, because she doesn't think Varric could make this up. If you don't accept her judgement, then your argument is doomed anyway.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 26 novembre 2012 - 11:56 .