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[Shadow Fox]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Are mundanes as dangerous when they go nuts as mages are?

Loghain nearly destroyed an entire country by going nuts and he lacked any magic whatsoever.  I think near destruction of an entire country beats mage damage.

Loghain didn't do all that on his own he needed Howe and others to get as far as he did.

[silentassassin264]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Are mundanes as dangerous when they go nuts as mages are?

Loghain nearly destroyed an entire country by going nuts and he lacked any magic whatsoever.  I think near destruction of an entire country beats mage damage.

Loghain didn't do all that on his own he needed Howe and others to get as far as he did.

And mages need demonic help to cause mass damage rampage or you can one-hit-kill them with Arrow of Slaying.  Long cloth skirts don't protect you from snipers.  

Mages are dangerous.  Nobody is denying that but acting like mages alone are some unholy terror that requires stripping people of rights is silly.  Lyrium enchantments can reproduce any magic mana based magic effect.  You don't even need to go through the pain of tatooing it on your skin like Fenris.  A nice armor with ethereal runes on it could copy that.  Anybody with any position of power can cause mass havoc.  Even the effect of blood magic manipulation can be reproduced by a cunning bard.  In DA2 we got to see a not very magical elf take out a district with something not very magical known as poison gas.  Anybody could do that.  That is my point.  

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
No, because the forces they had are just not sufficient.
The qunari in Kirkwall didn't have supply lines. They are just as isolated as hte US forces in mogadishu. more actually.

The Qunari don't need supply lines. And the US forces had the equipment to wipe Mogadishu off the face of the planet had they wanted to. However, since they were a peacekeeping force, that was not their MO, and thus they didn't.

No, they didn't. You are thinking of the entire US force, insted of only the force in the city.

Rome had the luxury of advanced technology (compared to the time period), and being the center of an entire Empire. Supplies were flowing into Rome from all corners of the world. Kirkwall is not Rome. It is an ancient city perhaps, but its a meagre shadow of what it once was under the Tevinter Imperium. Not that Kirkwall was a happy place, but at least it had the infrastructure to sustain itself. Now without the magical and technological aid of the Imperium, Kirkwall simply don't have the manpower or resources to sustain a population in the hundreds of thousands, it simply isn't feasible.

And Rome had 1 million long before the middle ages. What this means is that high population numbers are very possible and likely.

And Kirkwall is a massive city according to what we see in-game. So don't tell me it's sustaint hunderds of thousands. Becuase that's BS. I live in europe and I know old towns smaller than Kirkwall with friggin huge populations.

I don't care where you live. The fact is that you think a medieval city would be able to sustain a population of hundred of thousands. But that is simply impossible. That is the long and short of it. The technology Thedas posses simply doesn't allow for a population of that size to live in one place.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
Epic fail. You describe an attack where the americans where not even interrested in taking the city. it was an extraction mission. epic fail.  Do you know the battle of Eben Emael. a group of german paratroopers managed to capture the most powerful fortress in ww2 while outnumberd nearly 1:8. . assaults what the qunari did are possible and has happend for centuries in warfare.

And FFS. Rome had 1 million people in the roman time . And in the roman times people had far better agriculture , urban planning , water management and hygiene then in the medieval times. Epic fail again. Stop embarrassing yourself because your knowledge about ancient times would not fill a coffeecup.

Doesn't matter what the americans wanted. The qunari didn't come to kirkwall to take it over.
They had a small, depleted force in the middle of a hostile city.
And a fortress is not a city with tens (or hunderds) of thousands of inhabitants.

What the qunari did was suicide. Plain and simple. The Arishok was suicidal at that point.

Also, TheDas isn't a direct copy of our world - it didn't have Rome, it didn't have the plague nor any other historical events. And the actual state of farming technology is an unknown.

Epic fail yes - but on your part.

I don't really care for your pseudo tactical analysis of Mogadishu. The Americans had the firepower to level the entire place, if they had wanted to. Their MO was to keep the peace however, and as such, they couldn't allow for a complete massacre of Mogadishu. Whatever you say, just shows your clear lack of tactical knowhow, and I beg of you to leave the analysis to the proffessionals....
Likewise with the Qunari. The Qunari as  a species is far superior to the human. They need less sustenenace and they are physically superior. Even with those two factors you have a far superior fighting force, but add to that, the fact that even the lowest Qunari soldier is a soldier for life, with his entire purpose of life being a perfect solider. The lowest Qunari soldier is the epitome of an elite warrior to the rest of Thedas. So with this albeit small but elite force in the heart of Kirkwall, the Qunari had every oppertunity to take and hold Kirkwall. The Qunari could have easily handled anyhting Kirkwall could have thrown at them, had it not been for Hawke. While I Question the Qunari's ability to hold Kirkwall from the rest of the Free Marches, the fact is, that the Qunari could have taken Kirkwall easily had it not been for Hawke.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 30 novembre 2012 - 04:53 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I don't really care for your pseudo tactical analysis of Mogadishu.

Then I dont' care about yours either.
Case closed.

The Americans had the firepower to level the entire place, if they had wanted to. Their MO was to keep the peace however, and as such, they couldn't allow for a complete massacre of Mogadishu. Whatever you say, just shows your clear lack of tactical knowhow, and I beg of you to leave the analysis to the proffessionals....

No. The forces they had in the city didn't have that firepower.

Likewise with the Qunari. The Qunari as  a species is far superior to the human. They need less sustenenace and they are physically superior.

Proof?

Even with those two factors you have a far superior fighting force, but add to that, the fact that even the lowest Qunari soldier is a soldier for life, with his entire purpose of life being a perfect solider. The lowest Qunari soldier is the epitome of an elite warrior to the rest of Thedas. So with this albeit small but elite force in the heart of Kirkwall, the Qunari had every oppertunity to take and hold Kirkwall. The Qunari could have easily handled anyhting Kirkwall could have thrown at them, had it not been for Hawke.

No.

[Lotion Soronarr]

silentassassin264 wrote...
And mages need demonic help to cause mass damage rampage or you can one-hit-kill them with Arrow of Slaying.  Long cloth skirts don't protect you from snipers.  

Mages are dangerous.  Nobody is denying that but acting like mages alone are some unholy terror that requires stripping people of rights is silly.  Lyrium enchantments can reproduce any magic mana based magic effect.  You don't even need to go through the pain of tatooing it on your skin like Fenris.  A nice armor with ethereal runes on it could copy that.  Anybody with any position of power can cause mass havoc.  Even the effect of blood magic manipulation can be reproduced by a cunning bard.  In DA2 we got to see a not very magical elf take out a district with something not very magical known as poison gas. Anybod y could do that.  That is my point. 

No, they can't.
You mix gamplay and lore too much.

Mages are an unholy terror.

People in position on power rely on others to cause damage. They rely on obedience. On their own they are nothing.
Mages are something. Mages in power = disaster.

[Urzon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Proof?

Sten was able to survive for two weeks, in the cage, with little to no food or water. I guess playing "I Spy" for such a long time can surpress you need for basic necessities like that.

Modifié par Urzon, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:28 .

[TEWR]

Urzon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Proof?

Sten was able to survive for two weeks, in the cage, with little to no food or water. I guess playing "I Spy" for such a long time can surpress you need for basic necessities like that.

Gonna be a bit nitpicky here: it was actually more then 2 weeks. He says he's been in there for 20 days and says he'd last another 10 at least.

But aside from that, the fact that he will immediately say "I'm fit enough to fight" does point to the physiology of the Kossith as being pretty impressive, if they can go that long without food and water yet retain the ability to be a good fighter. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Urzon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Proof?

Sten was able to survive for two weeks, in the cage, with little to no food or water. I guess playing "I Spy" for such a long time can surpress you need for basic necessities like that.

Little is different to none at all.
And humans can also survive 20 days with little food.

Of course, this being a game, Sten certanly doesn't look malnurished.

[Urzon]

I wonder if that's a natural thing for the (racial) Qunari, or if that is something the Tamassrans bred from the soldiers overtime. Then from that, they were able to breed it into the population.

Makes me wonder, if given a couple more centuries, what they can do with the elves, humans, and dwarves genetically...

Modifié par Urzon, 30 novembre 2012 - 09:21 .

[Allan Schumacher]

This seems relevant:

https://twitter.com/...334309257711616

[Urzon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Little is different to none at all.
And humans can also survive 20 days with little food.

Of course, this being a game, Sten certanly doesn't look malnurished.

Human having little to no (keyword) food or water for 20 days? They wouldn't be able to fight, much less stand, walk, and run.

[TEWR]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This seems relevant:

https://twitter.com/...334309257711616

It doesn't talk about gorillas being in DA3. Not relevant to me! 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Urzon wrote...

I wonder if that's a natural thing for the (racial) Qunari, or if that is something the Tamassrans bred from the soldiers overtime. Then from that, they were able to breed it into the population.

Makes me wonder, if given a couple more centuries, what they can do with the elves, humans, and dwarves genetically...

Quanri requireing less food is counter-intuitive mind you. Bigger mass, more muscle = more energy required = bigger calories requirement.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Urzon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Little is different to none at all.
And humans can also survive 20 days with little food.

Of course, this being a game, Sten certanly doesn't look malnurished.

Human having little to no (keyword) food or water for 20 days? They wouldn't be able to fight, much less stand, walk, and run.

Well, Sten shouldn't have been able to fight after that either.

But ti's a game, and people get up after being run trough with swords.

[rolson00]

FaWa wrote...

This better not be the case... The one thing Bioware let us choose our stance on in DA2...

well most games do force you to play the game the way the devs want what about Modern warfare 3 that game forces you to fight russians. what about monkey island forced to kick lechucks arse all of the time. or even fable 3 what if you want your brother to remain king you have no choice but overthrow him, consider yourslef lucky that bioware lets you choose different paths towards the same goal hardly any studio does, and they don't  plan to.

Modifié par rolson00, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:14 .

[DKJaigen]

Auintus wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Auintus wrote...

Where is the army?
I completely forgot that, as its own city-state in a confederacy, Kirkwall would possess its own standing army. As soon as they came back, the qunari would be hosed, despite the fact that the Keep is a very defensible location.

Mages are powerful, but still mortal. Note that the qunari's greatest advantage was surprise, something that would work devestatingly well against mages. Besides, look at the scope of most magical powers. The qunari have hostages, and clearly don't care to preserve them.

This is medieval times you only created an army if you needed it.

Especially if you're a city state with no agressors close to you. The city guard is their entire army.

They still had professional soldiers, didn't they? I thought divisions or whatever cycled off in shifts, but I thought some sort of force was ready just in case.

Not at all. however some nations like the netherlands/flanders and the italian city states had well equiped militia soldiers who could be transformed into an army. But in pure feudal systems like germany and france relied on knights who where sometimes unreliable and usually took a lot of time to muster.

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Urzon wrote...

I wonder if that's a natural thing for the (racial) Qunari, or if that is something the Tamassrans bred from the soldiers overtime. Then from that, they were able to breed it into the population.

Makes me wonder, if given a couple more centuries, what they can do with the elves, humans, and dwarves genetically...

Quanri requireing less food is counter-intuitive mind you. Bigger mass, more muscle = more energy required = bigger calories requirement.

Perhaps they a  more efficient metabolism. Anyway kossith are physically superior to a human 

[Urzon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Quanri requireing less food is counter-intuitive mind you. Bigger mass, more muscle = more energy required = bigger calories requirement.

That applies to humans, yes. But since it has already been stated that Sten, and other Qunari, can go nearly a month with little to no food or water, it safe to say that doesn't apply to the Qunari.

I'd imagine that the Qunari body is much more efficient when it comes to breaking down and storing food/calories. The human body is very wasteful in that regard. Also, with the amount of mental and physical training the Qunari soldiers go through; they can probably control their metabolism at weill.

Something like going into a near hybernation state if they are sedimentary for a long period of time.

[BlueMagitek]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This seems relevant:

https://twitter.com/...334309257711616

It is, but apparently we're talking about Qunari physiology now.

Hmm, you need a Qunari smilie.  The closest we have so far is .

[nightscrawl]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This seems relevant:

https://twitter.com/...334309257711616

It is, but apparently we're talking about Qunari physiology now.

Hmm, you need a Qunari smilie.  The closest we have so far is .

Actually, there is a scene where the Arishok has a very slight smart-assy smile. You can ask him about why he doesn't share the gaatlok, and he remarks that they don't give it to non-qunari for the same reason that we don't give children swords, and then says "Well, your children *smile*."

[Inquisitor Arc]

Sten lasted that long because he had an entire jar of cookies to eat for the entire time he was playing I spy

[Lotion Soronarr]

Urzon wrote...

That applies to humans, yes. But since it has already been stated that Sten, and other Qunari, can go nearly a month with little to no food or water, it safe to say that doesn't apply to the Qunari.

It has never been really stated.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Urzon wrote...

That applies to humans, yes. But since it has already been stated that Sten, and other Qunari, can go nearly a month with little to no food or water, it safe to say that doesn't apply to the Qunari.

It has never been really stated.

With the data we are given, it is obvious that the Qunari got a superior metabolism compared to humans. You just don't want to admit having been wrong.

[IanPolaris]

silentassassin264 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Because they aren't. Templars are not encouraged to get married because they have a very demanding and time consuming job. They can however if the spouse understands they are hardly ever going to see them. Aveline was an officer in the military so she could a) take care of herself financially and wouldn't be able see him much anyway; therefore, their marriage worked I suppose.

It is my understanding that Templars are in fact Thedas' equivalent of warrior-monks.  While explicit vows of Celibacy don't seem to be taken, otherwise the organizational style does seem to be very similiar.  If so I imgine that the tolerance of married Templars would be very dependant on the local knight commander with Fereldan being the most liberal about this, and Kirkwall being the least.

-Polaris

Templars are not warrior-monks.  Visit the Blooming Rose some in DA2 to see how all those Templars blew of steam.  There is a reason Idunna's plan worked so well.  Templars are the army of the chantry.  They are like any other army and soldiers except they are not under command of the nobles or country...just the Divine and chantry.  

The Blooming Rose supports me and not you.  The reason that Knight Captain Cullen didn't want to go to brothel in person is because he was afraid everyone would clam up because it is the sort of place that the Templars aren't supposed to be in.  Of course just as in real life, this brothel made very good money out of offering what would normally be foridden to a templar.

BTW, even in real life monks (and priests) could and frequently did use prostitutes and visit brothels (and more) even when their vows supposedly precluded it.  The Knights Templar and Hospitalar very much considered themselves part of the Pope's Army during the later crusades, and they were very much warrior-monks, and the Templars are clearly modeled in DA after those two organizations.

So you are simply not correct here.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  We also know that full Templars do in fact take holy vows.  Alistair in DAO refers to that many times.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 30 novembre 2012 - 05:18 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Urzon wrote...

That applies to humans, yes. But since it has already been stated that Sten, and other Qunari, can go nearly a month with little to no food or water, it safe to say that doesn't apply to the Qunari.

It has never been really stated.

With the data we are given, it is obvious that the Qunari got a superior metabolism compared to humans. You just don't want to admit having been wrong.

No.
Nothing is obvious.