1297 réponses à ce sujet

[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Urzon wrote...

That applies to humans, yes. But since it has already been stated that Sten, and other Qunari, can go nearly a month with little to no food or water, it safe to say that doesn't apply to the Qunari.

It has never been really stated.

With the data we are given, it is obvious that the Qunari got a superior metabolism compared to humans. You just don't want to admit having been wrong.

No.
Nothing is obvious.

He was stuck in that cage for 20-30 days. Unless passerbys were giving him foodstuffs, qunari are made out of tougher stuff than humans. And I doubt people would randomly give food to a person who slaughtered a family, especially in Lothering, where people seem to have a tough enough time of it as it is.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This seems relevant:

https://twitter.com/...334309257711616

It directly answers the question posed by this thread.

It does raise another (whether we will be forced to be pro-inquisition), but this thread's question is thoroughly solved.

[LinksOcarina]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This seems relevant:

https://twitter.com/...334309257711616

It directly answers the question posed by this thread.

It does raise another (whether we will be forced to be pro-inquisition), but this thread's question is thoroughly solved.

I thought it was resolved back on page 3....

I am curious to see if we get a schism of the Chantry now...that would be interesting

[silentassassin264]

IanPolaris wrote...

The Blooming Rose supports me and not you.  The reason that Knight Captain Cullen didn't want to go to brothel in person is because he was afraid everyone would clam up because it is the sort of place that the Templars aren't supposed to be in.  Of course just as in real life, this brothel made very good money out of offering what would normally be foridden to a templar.

BTW, even in real life monks (and priests) could and frequently did use prostitutes and visit brothels (and more) even when their vows supposedly precluded it.  The Knights Templar and Hospitalar very much considered themselves part of the Pope's Army during the later crusades, and they were very much warrior-monks, and the Templars are clearly modeled in DA after those two organizations.

So you are simply not correct here.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  We also know that full Templars do in fact take holy vows.  Alistair in DAO refers to that many times.

The reason Knight Captain Cullen didn't want to go in there was because he was Knight Captain Cullen.  He was someone in authority who going in there investigating "something"...anything that could be up with his missing templars.  The Blooming Rose was a shady place with people of Gamlen's stature there.  The staff would hide everything and try to get him the eff out of there as soon as possible because they don't know why he is there and he would make people nervous.  Sex is not forbidden to templars.  They have vows to serve the Maker and the Chantry being Holy Warriors but they are not some celibate monastic order.  Aveline definitely had sex with Wesley since she mentions how she missed that part, too to Isabela.  Monks don't get married and have sex.  

I am sorry but you, my friend, are incorrect.

[Auintus]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This seems relevant:

https://twitter.com/...334309257711616

It directly answers the question posed by this thread.

It does raise another (whether we will be forced to be pro-inquisition), but this thread's question is thoroughly solved.

The thing is: We lead the Inquisition. The original one became the Seekers and the Templars. We decide the direction of the new one.

[Allan Schumacher]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This seems relevant:

https://twitter.com/...334309257711616

It is, but apparently we're talking about Qunari physiology now.

Hmm, you need a Qunari smilie.  The closest we have so far is .

That is a Qunari smile, isn't it?

[XCelfa]

You know.... while it wouldn't be cool to be forced into supporting the Templars, I really hope there's more Templar-sympathetic quests in this game. I feel as if we didn't see enough from their perspective in DAII. They've always worn the mantle of oppressor.

[BlueMagitek]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This seems relevant:

https://twitter.com/...334309257711616

It is, but apparently we're talking about Qunari physiology now.

Hmm, you need a Qunari smilie.  The closest we have so far is .

That is a Qunari smile, isn't it?

It is?  I thought it was how they displayed indifference.  Man, I'm so bad at this game.

[silentassassin264]

XCelfa wrote...

You know.... while it wouldn't be cool to be forced into supporting the Templars, I really hope there's more Templar-sympathetic quests in this game. I feel as if we didn't see enough from their perspective in DAII. They've always worn the mantle of oppressor.

You are joking, right?  Please tell me that I just missed the sarcasm.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:41 .

[XCelfa]

silentassassin264 wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

You know.... while it wouldn't be cool to be forced into supporting the Templars, I really hope there's more Templar-sympathetic quests in this game. I feel as if we didn't see enough from their perspective in DAII. They've always worn the mantle of oppressor.

You are joking, right?  Please tell me that I just missed the sarcasm.

It always amazes me how self-righteous people get over their video game choices. Anyway...

I was only suggesting that the near-entirety of DAII was spent fighting blood mages. perhaps there's something to this whole templar business? In my playthrough, I aided Anders with the mage underground and sided with him to defend the mages against Meredith's invocation of Anullment.

We saw almost nothing from the other perspective. perhaps if the game were set in, say, Tevinter, and the player character was a non-magic being enslaved by a magister... well, the tables would have certainly turned, wouldn't they? Who would be the oppressor then? By being in Kirkwall during this whole uprising, we missed a key perspective. It would have been what the Templars had been trying to prevent.

Edit: Worded differently, my point was unclear

Modifié par XCelfa, 30 novembre 2012 - 08:55 .

[silentassassin264]

XCelfa wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

You know.... while it wouldn't be cool to be forced into supporting the Templars, I really hope there's more Templar-sympathetic quests in this game. I feel as if we didn't see enough from their perspective in DAII. They've always worn the mantle of oppressor.

You are joking, right?  Please tell me that I just missed the sarcasm.

It always amazes me how self-righteous people get over their video game choices. Anyway...

I was only suggesting that the near-entirety of DAII was spent fighting blood mages. We saw almost nothing from the other perspective. perhaps if the game were set in, say, Tevinter, and the player character was a non-magic being enslaved by a magister... well, the tables would have certainly turned, wouldn't they? Who would be the oppressor then? By being in Kirkwall during this whole uprising, we missed a key perspective. It would have been what the Templars had been trying to prevent.

You said that you really hoped thre were more Templar-sympathetic quests in DAI.  You then say near-entirety of DA2 was spent fighting blood mages.  You then spell out Fenris' exact situation which he will make sure you understand if you talk to him.  

How the heck was DA2 not from the Templar perspective?  All the Templars was shown to be reasonable and doing there duty for order and protecting the populace save Alrik who repeatedly shown to be an outlier.  Even when a (non Alrik) Templar seemed overzealous, there was always an option to side with a more tempered Templar.  Thrask vs. Karras, Ser Mettin and the other one, and obviously Meredith and Cullen at the end (though that really isn't a choice). 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Urzon wrote...

That applies to humans, yes. But since it has already been stated that Sten, and other Qunari, can go nearly a month with little to no food or water, it safe to say that doesn't apply to the Qunari.

It has never been really stated.

With the data we are given, it is obvious that the Qunari got a superior metabolism compared to humans. You just don't want to admit having been wrong.

No.
Nothing is obvious.

Yes it is. You are just purposfully blindfolding yourself if you don't see it. 20-30 days of limited food and water would leave a human too weak to stand let alone fight, Sten however is fully capable of fighting. So obviously Qunari are physically superior.

[IanPolaris]

silentassassin264 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

The Blooming Rose supports me and not you.  The reason that Knight Captain Cullen didn't want to go to brothel in person is because he was afraid everyone would clam up because it is the sort of place that the Templars aren't supposed to be in.  Of course just as in real life, this brothel made very good money out of offering what would normally be foridden to a templar.

BTW, even in real life monks (and priests) could and frequently did use prostitutes and visit brothels (and more) even when their vows supposedly precluded it.  The Knights Templar and Hospitalar very much considered themselves part of the Pope's Army during the later crusades, and they were very much warrior-monks, and the Templars are clearly modeled in DA after those two organizations.

So you are simply not correct here.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  We also know that full Templars do in fact take holy vows.  Alistair in DAO refers to that many times.

The reason Knight Captain Cullen didn't want to go in there was because he was Knight Captain Cullen.  He was someone in authority who going in there investigating "something"...anything that could be up with his missing templars.  The Blooming Rose was a shady place with people of Gamlen's stature there.  The staff would hide everything and try to get him the eff out of there as soon as possible because they don't know why he is there and he would make people nervous.  Sex is not forbidden to templars.  They have vows to serve the Maker and the Chantry being Holy Warriors but they are not some celibate monastic order.  Aveline definitely had sex with Wesley since she mentions how she missed that part, too to Isabela.  Monks don't get married and have sex.  

I am sorry but you, my friend, are incorrect.

Sorry but I am not.  You are conflating a vow of celebicy with religious vows in general.  Just because Templars don't have to take vows of celebacy does NOT mean they don't take religious vows.  We happen to know that they do, and celibacy is not a requirement to be a warrior-monk.  The requirement is taking a relgious vow of office, and we know that Templars are required to do this.

So you, my friend, are the one that is incorrect.

-Polaris

[XCelfa]

silentassassin264 wrote...

snip goes the wall of text



You said that you really hoped thre were more Templar-sympathetic quests in DAI.  You then say near-entirety of DA2 was spent fighting blood mages.  You then spell out Fenris' exact situation which he will make sure you understand if you talk to him.  

How the heck was DA2 not from the Templar perspective?  All the Templars was shown to be reasonable and doing there duty for order and protecting the populace save Alrik who repeatedly shown to be an outlier.  Even when a (non Alrik) Templar seemed overzealous, there was always an option to side with a more tempered Templar.  Thrask vs. Karras, Ser Mettin and the other one, and obviously Meredith and Cullen at the end (though that really isn't a choice). 

Alright, here.

At the beginning of the game, you could either a.) Be a mage or b.) Have a mage sister. Immediately, it was made clear to you that all of your familial turmoil welled from the fact that your father and sister - and perhaps even you- were mages. When arriving in Kirkwall and breaking into the Amell estate, there was a coat of arms with a letter discussing the downfall of the Amell house, for no other reason for the fact that Revka birthed a mage. When you went to find Anders, the refugees made it clear and even threatened you because they wrongly assumed you were pursuing him to turn into the templars.

And upon meeting Anders, the plight of the mages was made clear. Merrill and Bethany and, to a point, Aveline and [am I remembering correctly?] even Isabela, agreed with the pro-mage agenda. Out of all of our [non-dlc] companions, there was only one that was readily pro-templar: Fenris. We were given no Templar perspective. Despite fighting blood mages and even watching Orsino fall prey to temptation, it was through the eyes of an outlier. Do you see what I mean? We had three mage buddies and no templar buddies. Every hardship we witnessed belonged to the mages save one exception- rescuing Keran from Tarohne.

Not to mention that Meredith was assumed as being bat**** from day one, even before acquiring the idol.

Modifié par XCelfa, 30 novembre 2012 - 09:19 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Auintus wrote...

The thing is: We lead the Inquisition. The original one became the Seekers and the Templars. We decide the direction of the new one.

Do we know that?  We have reason to believe the game's events take place amidst an Inquisition.  Do we have reason to believe that the game's events actually entail inquisition?

[Lotion Soronarr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No.
Nothing is obvious.

Yes it is. You are just purposfully blindfolding yourself if you don't see it. 20-30 days of limited food and water would leave a human too weak to stand let alone fight, Sten however is fully capable of fighting. So obviously Qunari are physically superior.

No.
It's a game. That's the sole reason Stan can immediately stand and fight.
It wouldn't be fun to wait for him to recover from his ordeal. The same reason why we don't spend a week in a  inn aafter a difficult fight, with half hte party crippled.

[Lotion Soronarr]

silentassassin264 wrote...

How the heck was DA2 not from the Templar perspective?  All the Templars was shown to be reasonable and doing there duty for order and protecting the populace save Alrik who repeatedly shown to be an outlier.  Even when a (non Alrik) Templar seemed overzealous, there was always an option to side with a more tempered Templar.  Thrask vs. Karras, Ser Mettin and the other one, and obviously Meredith and Cullen at the end (though that really isn't a choice).

If templars are so great, why you siding with mages?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No.
Nothing is obvious.

Yes it is. You are just purposfully blindfolding yourself if you don't see it. 20-30 days of limited food and water would leave a human too weak to stand let alone fight, Sten however is fully capable of fighting. So obviously Qunari are physically superior.

No.
It's a game. That's the sole reason Stan can immediately stand and fight.
It wouldn't be fun to wait for him to recover from his ordeal. The same reason why we don't spend a week in a  inn aafter a difficult fight, with half hte party crippled.

It still serves to prove the Qunari physiology is superior. Particularly since Sten even comments on it himself. But now I see what the others have ben saying about you ignoring lore when it doesn't serve your purposes.

[silentassassin264]

IanPolaris wrote...

Sorry but I am not.  You are conflating a vow of celebicy with religious vows in general.  Just because Templars don't have to take vows of celebacy does NOT mean they don't take religious vows.  We happen to know that they do, and celibacy is not a requirement to be a warrior-monk.  The requirement is taking a relgious vow of office, and we know that Templars are required to do this.

So you, my friend, are the one that is incorrect.

-Polaris

Except I am not.  Being a warrior-monk requires you to be a warrior and a monk.  Templars are not monks.  Monks are essentially priests/preacher/holy men that do not actually lead a congregation.  They just live a smiplistic life in religious devotion.  Templars are essentially what you would be if you were a teacher for a catholic school.  If you taught at a catholic school, you would have to do Catholic religious rites, mass, at least publicly acknowledge the pope as his holiness, etc. etc. but you are not a part of the Church.  Templars have absolutely no part in the Chantry heirarchy.  They do not preach, teach, run Chantries, or anything remotely close to what a monk would do.  The say prayers, or the chant rather, like would be obligated of a Catholic school teacher and that is it.  Their "religious" vows are essentially swearing to uphold the Chantry just like any US Soldier swears to protect the United States.  The only warrior-monk shown for the Chantry in this game in Sebastian.  

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

How the heck was DA2 not from the Templar perspective?  All the Templars was shown to be reasonable and doing there duty for order and protecting the populace save Alrik who repeatedly shown to be an outlier.  Even when a (non Alrik) Templar seemed overzealous, there was always an option to side with a more tempered Templar.  Thrask vs. Karras, Ser Mettin and the other one, and obviously Meredith and Cullen at the end (though that really isn't a choice). 

If templars are so great, why you siding with mages?

I have sided with the templars before.  I am pro-order, I just am against the Circle system as it is.  I believe it is counter-productive to order to making every mage who wants freedom to literally have to fight the law and get into a whatever it takes mode to be able have something simple like family.

[silentassassin264]

XCelfa wrote...

Alright, here.

At the beginning of the game, you could either a.) Be a mage or b.) Have a mage sister. Immediately, it was made clear to you that all of your familial turmoil welled from the fact that your father and sister - and perhaps even you- were mages. When arriving in Kirkwall and breaking into the Amell estate, there was a coat of arms with a letter discussing the downfall of the Amell house, for no other reason for the fact that Revka birthed a mage. When you went to find Anders, the refugees made it clear and even threatened you because they wrongly assumed you were pursuing him to turn into the templars.

And upon meeting Anders, the plight of the mages was made clear. Merrill and Bethany and, to a point, Aveline and [am I remembering correctly?] even Isabela, agreed with the pro-mage agenda. Out of all of our [non-dlc] companions, there was only one that was readily pro-templar: Fenris. We were given no Templar perspective. Despite fighting blood mages and even watching Orsino fall prey to temptation, it was through the eyes of an outlier. Do you see what I mean? We had three mage buddies and no templar buddies. Every hardship we witnessed belonged to the mages save one exception- rescuing Keran from Tarohne.

Not to mention that Meredith was assumed as being bat**** from day one, even before acquiring the idol.

Aveline was decided anti-mage.  Listen to her conversations with the mage companions, take her into the fade and let her fall to the demon's offer, or don't have enough friendship/rivalry at the end and side with the mages.  She will straight up leave you for doing so.  Varric also slightly sides with the Templars and will express his disagreement with your decision to side with the mages.  The templars/mage supporting teammates are split 50/50.  And we do have a templar perspective.  If you are a mage, you get your brother for starters (if you leave him behind anyway).  You can talk to Cullen.  You can talk to Thrask.  You can talk to the guy who gets killed by demons while chasing after Quentin.  You can see what the Templars go through and have to put up with by playing the game even without an explicit Templar teammate.  

And Meredith was incredibly reasonable.  She did nothing to make you think she would snap until she actually did.  Everything she said was right..including Orsino's blood magic.

[frankf43]

silentassassin264 wrote...

XCelfa wrote...

Alright, here.

At the beginning of the game, you could either a.) Be a mage or b.) Have a mage sister. Immediately, it was made clear to you that all of your familial turmoil welled from the fact that your father and sister - and perhaps even you- were mages. When arriving in Kirkwall and breaking into the Amell estate, there was a coat of arms with a letter discussing the downfall of the Amell house, for no other reason for the fact that Revka birthed a mage. When you went to find Anders, the refugees made it clear and even threatened you because they wrongly assumed you were pursuing him to turn into the templars.

And upon meeting Anders, the plight of the mages was made clear. Merrill and Bethany and, to a point, Aveline and [am I remembering correctly?] even Isabela, agreed with the pro-mage agenda. Out of all of our [non-dlc] companions, there was only one that was readily pro-templar: Fenris. We were given no Templar perspective. Despite fighting blood mages and even watching Orsino fall prey to temptation, it was through the eyes of an outlier. Do you see what I mean? We had three mage buddies and no templar buddies. Every hardship we witnessed belonged to the mages save one exception- rescuing Keran from Tarohne.

Not to mention that Meredith was assumed as being bat**** from day one, even before acquiring the idol.

Aveline was decided anti-mage.  Listen to her conversations with the mage companions, take her into the fade and let her fall to the demon's offer, or don't have enough friendship/rivalry at the end and side with the mages.  She will straight up leave you for doing so.  Varric also slightly sides with the Templars and will express his disagreement with your decision to side with the mages.  The templars/mage supporting teammates are split 50/50.  And we do have a templar perspective.  If you are a mage, you get your brother for starters (if you leave him behind anyway).  You can talk to Cullen.  You can talk to Thrask.  You can talk to the guy who gets killed by demons while chasing after Quentin.  You can see what the Templars go through and have to put up with by playing the game even without an explicit Templar teammate.  

And Meredith was incredibly reasonable.  She did nothing to make you think she would snap until she actually did.  Everything she said was right..including Orsino's blood magic.

You were right until the last bit. From the very start we are told that Meredith is a zealot, that the Circle at the Gallows was worse than the Circles in the rest of the world. Mages were being made tranquil after they had past the Harrowing.

Even if the letter we saw said that she didn't back this she had to know it was happening, when ever a mage that had passed the Harrowing turned up tranquil.. Just because she officially opposed it her actions in not stopping it spoke louder than her words.

Not matter how bad he Templars treated the mages it was always the mages fault.

If the idea of wiping out all the mages for the act of one was not unreasonable than I hope you never sit on a jury in my home town because if one peoron gets found guilt of murder you will want to send everybody who lives here to the  electric chair.

Modifié par frankf43, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:52 .

[silentassassin264]

frankf43 wrote...

You were right until the last bit. From the very start we are told that Meredith is a zealot, that the Circle at the Gallows was worse than the Circles in the rest of the world. Mages were being made tranquil after they had past the Harrowing.

Even if the letter we saw said that she didn't back this she had to know it was happening, when ever a mage that had passed the Harrowing turned up tranquil.. Just because she officially opposed it her actions in not stopping spoke louder than her words.

Not matter how bad he Templars treated the mages it was always the mages fault.

Sure she was clearly ignoring the Chantry Law but she was not some malicious nutjob.  Mages in Kirkwall's circle also had a higher tendency to turn to blood magic.  She was went beyond typical protocol because she was dealing with unusual circumstances of having to ward a circle in a city were the veil was thin.  She was harsh but not unreasonably harsh until Act 3.

[frankf43]

silentassassin264 wrote...

frankf43 wrote...

You were right until the last bit. From the very start we are told that Meredith is a zealot, that the Circle at the Gallows was worse than the Circles in the rest of the world. Mages were being made tranquil after they had past the Harrowing.

Even if the letter we saw said that she didn't back this she had to know it was happening, when ever a mage that had passed the Harrowing turned up tranquil.. Just because she officially opposed it her actions in not stopping spoke louder than her words.

Not matter how bad he Templars treated the mages it was always the mages fault.

Sure she was clearly ignoring the Chantry Law but she was not some malicious nutjob.  Mages in Kirkwall's circle also had a higher tendency to turn to blood magic.  She was went beyond typical protocol because she was dealing with unusual circumstances of having to ward a circle in a city were the veil was thin.  She was harsh but not unreasonably harsh until Act 3.

I posted an old saying earlier, "You can olny kick a dog so many times before he will bite back."  The Templars left the mages no where to go but blood magic to defend themselves.

Modifié par frankf43, 30 novembre 2012 - 10:56 .

[silentassassin264]

The reason the mages turned to blood magic and turned into abominations so much in Kirkwall was the weakened veil, not because of Templar abuse. Even Bethany said the Circle was not that bad as long as she stayed away from Alrik.

If this keeps up, I will have started defending the mages here and then have to defend the templars.

I need a drink.

[frankf43]

on another point she took over the city at the beginng of Act 3. A possition she had no right to. she then proceeded to have her Templars murder Nobles for discussing replacing the Viscount.