1297 réponses à ce sujet

[TCBC_Freak]

Todd23 wrote...

I'm fighting for the mages side full throttle. After all those who stand against us are crushed. I'll deal with the evil ones in are ranks.

Replace mage with Templar in your post and your stance is the same as what you claim makes the Templar evil bigots who all deserve to die... that, "They are corrupt and led by bad guys and the average Templar does nothing." Is this lost on every one but me?

[Lotion Soronarr]

esper wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It is an excuse. We can argue if it's a good or bad one, but it happens ALL THE TIME in games.

Ever had a game made following a book/movie, and then realize that the balance is completely different?

For exmaple: Mortal Kombat vs. DC. Apprently superman is weaksauce and can't kill normal humans with 20 punches.

As said in my  post abode. Da:o and da2 has grade in their enemies. If they wanted me to believe them to be a treath lorewise they could at the least move them from mook-level to mini-boss or at the least captain. They don't, thus it is a gameplay story mechanic I cannot take seriously.

Yes, it is a big desing faliure.
But most people can seperate gampleay mechanics/balance from lore. It's not that difficult.

You know in cutscenes poeple die form one sword slash, and in-game you hit them a bajjilion times? Same thing.

[BlueMagitek]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

I'm fighting for the mages side full throttle. After all those who stand against us are crushed. I'll deal with the evil ones in are ranks.

Replace mage with Templar in your post and your stance is the same as what you claim makes the Templar evil bigots who all deserve to die... that, "They are corrupt and led by bad guys and the average Templar does nothing." Is this lost on every one but me?

Yes, I feel you. Some things are absolutely astounding. ~_^

[Lotion Soronarr]

frankf43 wrote...

Its amazing how quickly the common folk would come around if you offfer them free medi care.

And it's also amazing how quickly they will bring out the pitchforks when that friendly mage does something wrong.
That is human nature.

[Xilizhra]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

I'm fighting for the mages side full throttle. After all those who stand against us are crushed. I'll deal with the evil ones in are ranks.

Replace mage with Templar in your post and your stance is the same as what you claim makes the Templar evil bigots who all deserve to die... that, "They are corrupt and led by bad guys and the average Templar does nothing." Is this lost on every one but me?

The templars prosecuted the war and have been the aggressors for over a thousand years. They're in the wrong on this.

[Dave of Canada]

frankf43 wrote...

Its amazing how quickly the common folk would come around if you offfer them free medi care.

That's one mage and any good will he built up was destroyed, evidence to the dangers of magic.

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

The templars prosecuted the war and have been the aggressors for over a thousand years. They're in the wrong on this.

Anders, a mage, started the war when he committed a terrorist act in Kirkwall, which he knew full well would prompt Meredith to respond.  He says so himself.

[Solas]

 I wonder if we're going to be playing a Seeker?

[The Elder King]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Yes, it is a big desing faliure.
But most people can seperate gampleay mechanics/balance from lore. It's not that difficult.

You know in cutscenes poeple die form one sword slash, and in-game you hit them a bajjilion times? Same thing.

Not to mention the fact that my PC often fought with all his might despite having an arrow in his chest. And let's not talks about all the elemental attacks who should have killed him on the spot. Or when Alistair passed thirty seconds being Flemeth's chewing gum.
I mean, if we're going to say that abominations aren't strong because of gameplay, than we should think that sentients beings in Thedas could survive being munched by a dragon for thirty seconds, and all the other impossible things that happened in the games.

[Xilizhra]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The templars prosecuted the war and have been the aggressors for over a thousand years. They're in the wrong on this.

Anders, a mage, started the war when he committed a terrorist act in Kirkwall, which he knew full well would prompt Meredith to respond.  He says so himself.

Wrong in two separate ways. One, had the templars only killed him, it would have been proportionate, but they attacked without reason a group that had nothing to do with the bombing. Two, that wasn't the actual start of the war; that didn't come until a year later when Lambert decided to kill all mages for leaving the Chantry.

[The Elder King]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The templars prosecuted the war and have been the aggressors for over a thousand years. They're in the wrong on this.

Anders, a mage, started the war when he committed a terrorist act in Kirkwall, which he knew full well would prompt Meredith to respond.  He says so himself.

I'd say Anders is directly responsible of the event of Kirkwall, and directly influenced the people and events afterward, but it's not fully responsible for the war.  Meredith, Adrian and Lambert have their share of responsibilites.

Modifié par hhh89, 01 décembre 2012 - 10:50 .

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

Wrong in two separate ways. One, had the templars only killed him, it would have been proportionate, but they attacked without reason a group that had nothing to do with the bombing. Two, that wasn't the actual start of the war; that didn't come until a year later when Lambert decided to kill all mages for leaving the Chantry.

Anders knew Meredith was held in check by Ethina.  So he kills her in order to have Meredith seek revenge.  And to be honest, the Kirkwall Circle probably needed some sort of cleansing, given the amount of blood magic and treachery going on there.  

So the war started in Kirkwall?  Interesting.

[BlueMagitek]

hhh89 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The templars prosecuted the war and have been the aggressors for over a thousand years. They're in the wrong on this.

Anders, a mage, started the war when he committed a terrorist act in Kirkwall, which he knew full well would prompt Meredith to respond.  He says so himself.

I'd say Anders is directly responsible of the event of Kirkwall, and directly influenced the people and events afterward, but it's not fully responsible for the war.  Meredith, Adrian and Lambert have their share of responsibilites.

Fully responsible, no, but he more or less instigated it.  Like assasinating Archduke Ferdinan.

Kirkwall will almost certainly be held as the first battle of the war.  The Epilogue seems to confirm it, with Hawke becoming a rallying cry for one side.

[esper]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

esper wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It is an excuse. We can argue if it's a good or bad one, but it happens ALL THE TIME in games.

Ever had a game made following a book/movie, and then realize that the balance is completely different?

For exmaple: Mortal Kombat vs. DC. Apprently superman is weaksauce and can't kill normal humans with 20 punches.

As said in my  post abode. Da:o and da2 has grade in their enemies. If they wanted me to believe them to be a treath lorewise they could at the least move them from mook-level to mini-boss or at the least captain. They don't, thus it is a gameplay story mechanic I cannot take seriously.

Yes, it is a big desing faliure.
But most people can seperate gampleay mechanics/balance from lore. It's not that difficult.

You know in cutscenes poeple die form one sword slash, and in-game you hit them a bajjilion times? Same thing.

As said, then use the gameplay mechanic to show it, I can buy desire demons being dangerous even if I can one hit them because I can see that they are technically lituanent level and are meant to dangerous..er than the avarge mook.

If the avarge abormination are not even getting that curtesy I simply do not buy it. And it becomes easier for me to believe the hyperbole being in the unstable lore which do use unrealiable narrators. One or two known aborminations on Conner's level would be enough to jump to the conclusion: All aborminations is like that. 

It is much more believeable than 'the designers where just too lazy to actually make avarage abormination on liutenants niveau'. I usally give a lot of free way to the story vs. gameplay, but at some points it becomes ridiculess and it is here.

[The Elder King]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Wrong in two separate ways. One, had the templars only killed him, it would have been proportionate, but they attacked without reason a group that had nothing to do with the bombing. Two, that wasn't the actual start of the war; that didn't come until a year later when Lambert decided to kill all mages for leaving the Chantry.

Anders knew Meredith was held in check by Ethina.  So he kills her in order to have Meredith seek revenge.  And to be honest, the Kirkwall Circle probably needed some sort of cleansing, given the amount of blood magic and treachery going on there.  

So the war started in Kirkwall?  Interesting.

The war didn't  officially start in Kirkwall, Mages voted against separation (don't know how many times). After the events of Asunder (in which both mages and templars are responsible, with Adrian and Lambert) the mages voted against separation and Lambert removed the templars and the seekers from the Chantry.

edited for clarifying my point.

Modifié par hhh89, 01 décembre 2012 - 11:07 .

[Xilizhra]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Wrong in two separate ways. One, had the templars only killed him, it would have been proportionate, but they attacked without reason a group that had nothing to do with the bombing. Two, that wasn't the actual start of the war; that didn't come until a year later when Lambert decided to kill all mages for leaving the Chantry.

Anders knew Meredith was held in check by Ethina.  So he kills her in order to have Meredith seek revenge.  And to be honest, the Kirkwall Circle probably needed some sort of cleansing, given the amount of blood magic and treachery going on there.  

So the war started in Kirkwall?  Interesting.

No, the war didn't start in Kirkwall, the Circle did not need an Annulment, and the fact that Anders manipulated Meredith doesn't mean that Meredith wasn't solely responsible for it. Well, to a point; given her own mental illness, she's arguably not completely responsible for her own actions, but her subordinates were responsible for going along with it and continue to prosecute genocide. And again, the actual war was started by Lambert.

[BlueMagitek]

hhh89 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Wrong in two separate ways. One, had the templars only killed him, it would have been proportionate, but they attacked without reason a group that had nothing to do with the bombing. Two, that wasn't the actual start of the war; that didn't come until a year later when Lambert decided to kill all mages for leaving the Chantry.

Anders knew Meredith was held in check by Ethina.  So he kills her in order to have Meredith seek revenge.  And to be honest, the Kirkwall Circle probably needed some sort of cleansing, given the amount of blood magic and treachery going on there.  

So the war started in Kirkwall?  Interesting.

The war didn't start in Kirkwall, Mages voted against separation (don't know how many times). After the events of Asunder (in which both mages and templars are responsible, with Adrian and Lambert) the mages voted against separation and Lambert removed the templars and the seekers from the Chantry.

You ignore the hallowed Kirkwallian soil that the blood of your brothers and sisters died on to either keep the mundanes safe or fight for some form of freedom, or something.

[The Elder King]

BlueMagitek wrote...


Fully responsible, no, but he more or less instigated it.  Like assasinating Archduke Ferdinan.

Kirkwall will almost certainly be held as the first battle of the war.  The Epilogue seems to confirm it, with Hawke becoming a rallying cry for one side.

Yeah, he istigated it, of course. The events of Kirkwall obviously influenced the events in Asunder, though other characters have their role in formally starting the war and in the separation of both mages and templars from the Chantry.

[The Elder King]

BlueMagitek wrote...



You ignore the hallowed Kirkwallian soil that the blood of your brothers and sisters died on to either keep the mundanes safe or fight for some form of freedom, or something.

Kirkwall is the first event of the mage-templar war, but this war didn't officially start until a year later. The mages and the templars were still somehow under the Chantry's control (though another Circle was Annulled). Only after Asunder the two groups separated themselves from the Chantry, and officially start the war. That was I meant, and it was more related to Anders not being the sole responsible for the war.

Modifié par hhh89, 01 décembre 2012 - 11:02 .

[BlueMagitek]

hhh89 wrote...

Yeah, he istigated it, of course. The events of Kirkwall obviously influenced the events in Asunder, though other characters have their role in formally starting the war and in the separation of both mages and templars from the Chantry.

Look at Lexington and Concord.  We often consider them to be the start of the Revolutionary War (US) but war wasn't formally declared until later.  I think it would be unjust to those involved  to say that the war didn't start there.

[The Elder King]

BlueMagitek wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Yeah, he istigated it, of course. The events of Kirkwall obviously influenced the events in Asunder, though other characters have their role in formally starting the war and in the separation of both mages and templars from the Chantry.

Look at Lexington and Concord.  We often consider them to be the start of the Revolutionary War (US) but war wasn't formally declared until later.  I think it would be unjust to those involved  to say that the war didn't start there.

I mean that the war didn't start in Kirkwall, but started after Asunder, only in an formal way. Of course, Kirkwall is the first battle in the war, even if the war did't officially starts. The people that died there were the first casualties of the war, and Anders is one of the main responsible of the war, along with others.
Though it should be noted that the war wouldn't have continued if not for the actions of other people, like Adrian and Lambert. The fracture might have been sanated in some way. The mages expressed the will of not separating from the Chantry, and they couldn't have fought with the templars if they remained between the Chantry.

Modifié par hhh89, 01 décembre 2012 - 11:11 .

[BlueMagitek]

Then we have an accord. ~_^

And Xil, when your First Enchanter is a blood mage (and working with serial killers) and there are a number of blood mages amongst your ranks, there is need for some form of cleansing. If not the RoA, then something else.

[Auintus]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Alistair's dead. Long live Templar-King Cousland.

Oh, well then. Viva la revelucion!

[Auintus]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Then we have an accord. ~_^

And Xil, when your First Enchanter is a blood mage (and working with serial killers) and there are a number of blood mages amongst your ranks, there is need for some form of cleansing. If not the RoA, then something else.

Knowing blood magic and using blood magic are two very different things. "Until this moment, I have never used blood magic." And he wasn't working with Quentin, just covering up after him to avoid giving Meredith more ammunition against the mages(still a grave error).

[HiroVoid]

He sure knew how to use it well for never apparently practicing it despite seeming to need tomes and tons of other material and practice with magic to use it properly.