1297 réponses à ce sujet

[Daerog]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Having your room searched is not a harsh measure.  It may be seen as harsh here, but in Thedas, that's less than a slap on the wrist.  That Meredith needs permission from the First Enchanter to do it is baffling as well, if I am to believe some.  

But that isn't the point.  If there was evidence that the Mage  Underground had a contact inside the Circle, it is Meredith's duty to investigate it.  That would almost certainly include an investigation of the mage's quarters.  

Still needs permission from the First Enchanter, as the Knight-Commander is not a higher position nor can the Knight-Commander order the First Enchanter around. The Templars police and help with the Circle, but it is still the Enchanters who run/govern it, or at least that is how it is supposed to be. Such a situation should be brought to the Chantry (who does have authority over both parties) first so that respact of Circle/Chantry/Templar law would be respected by those who enforce it.

I usually play as a Loyalist or pro Circle (as in the Circle is a good thing, not that I'm antiTemplar), but Meredith was overstepping her role, the Templars do not have complete command of the Circle, unless they declare a kind of martial law that can be denied by the local Chantry.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 03 décembre 2012 - 03:19 .

[Heimdall]

BlueMagitek wrote...
[
Having your room searched is not a harsh measure.  It may be seen as harsh here, but in Thedas, that's less than a slap on the wrist.  That Meredith needs permission from the First Enchanter to do it is baffling as well, if I am to believe some.  

But that isn't the point.  If there was evidence that the Mage  Underground had a contact inside the Circle, it is Meredith's duty to investigate it.  That would almost certainly include an investigation of the mage's quarters.  

But the Mage Underground had been destroyed by Act 3

[TEWR]

Having your room searched is not a harsh measure. It may be seen as harsh here, but in Thedas, that's less than a slap on the wrist.

Didn't say it was. In principle anyway, it's a fair measure if a bit violating for some people.

Though when Meredith's calling it, you can bet your ass she has an ulterior motive behind it and she isn't doing it to be a good Templar. If Gregoir had proposed it, I'd back it all the way. Because Gregoir's a good man, if a bit stern. If Cullen had proposed it, I'd think about it a bit and consider it.

That Meredith needs permission from the First Enchanter to do it is baffling as well, if I am to believe some.

By the rules of the Circle, she actually does. A Knight-Commander wrote in a letter to his successor that it was his duty to work with the First Enchanter of a Circle, that the First Enchanter was the one would guide the Circle's actions, and so on.

Meredith's trying to force him to allow it. Intimidation. isn't acceptable.

And Orsino does eventually say "Fine! You can do it! I'll help you myself, if you wish!" when the Circle's going to be punished for an act they had nothing to do with. In essence, when he saw just how far she was willing to go to kill them all with very shaky justification for doing so, he went for his only option by that point that would preserve the lives of the Circle.

Meredith... she says that the only thing she'd "entertain" is a surrender. She wanted all the Mages, even the children, to die on their knees for a crime they had nothing to do with.

Hell, Meredith herself knows that Anders is an apostate. Hawke can even warn the Templars -- with Anders in the party -- that Anders is plotting something against the Chantry, on his own.

But that isn't the point. If there was evidence that the Mage Underground had a contact inside the Circle, it is Meredith's duty to investigate it. That would almost certainly include an investigation of the mage's quarters.  

But as I said, the Mage Underground was destroyed. By Meredith. During the years between Act 2 and 3. 

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 décembre 2012 - 03:46 .

[BlueMagitek]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Still needs permission from the First Enchanter, as the Knight-Commander is not a higher position nor can the Knight-Commander order the First Enchanter around. The Templars police and help with the Circle, but it is still the Enchanters who run/govern it, or at least that is how it is supposed to be. Such a situation should be brought to the Chantry (who does have authority over both parties) first so that respact of Circle/Chantry/Templar law would be respected by those who enforce it.

I usually play as a Loyalist or pro Circle (as in the Circle is a good thing, not that I'm antiTemplar), but Meredith was overstepping her role, the Templars do not have complete command of the Circle, unless they declare a kind of martial law that can be denied by the local Chantry.

Yes, but Orsino is attempting to prevent her from doing her job.  If there was a reasonable suspicion that there were mages working with the outer collective in the Circle, she needs to investigate it.  One of the first steps would be to investigate the private area of the Circle Mages.

I agree.  Meredith was overstepping her roles in many ways, but demanding to search for evidence when she has reason to is not one of them.

Lord Aesir wrote...

But the Mage Underground had been destroyed by Act 3

But if there was evidence that Circle mages were working with them, one cannot just turn a blind eye to them. 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Didn't say it was. In principle anyway, it's a fair measure if a bit violating for some people.

Though
when Meredith's calling it, you can bet your ass she has an ulterior
motive behind it and she isn't doing it to be a good Templar. If Gregoir
had proposed it, I'd back it all the way. Because Gregoir's a good man,
if a bit stern. If Cullen had proposed it, I'd think about it a bit and
consider it.

By the rules of the Circle, she actually does. A
Knight-Commander wrote in a letter to his successor that it was his duty
to work with the First Enchanter of a Circle, that the First Enchanter
was the one would guide the Circle's actions, and so on.

Meredith's trying to force him to allow it. Intimidation. isn't acceptable.

And
Orsino does eventually say "Fine! You can do it! I'll help you myself,
if you wish!" when the Circle's going to be punished for an act they had
nothing to do with. In essence, when he saw just how far she was
willing to go to kill them all with very shaky justification for doing
so, he went for his only option by that point that would preserve the
lives of the Circle.

Meredith... she says that the only thing
she'd "entertain" is a surrender. She wanted all the Mages, even the
children, to die on their knees for a crime they had nothing to do with.

Hell,
Meredith herself knows that Anders is an apostate. Hawke can even warn
the Templars -- with Anders in the party -- that Anders is plotting
something against the Chantry, on his own.

But as I said, the Mage Underground was destroyed. By Meredith. During the years between Act 2 and 3. 

Not every situation is the same.  In this scenario, does Meredith not have evidence from the Mage Underground that there are Circle mages working with them?  Has Kirkwall not been accosted by Blood Mages (some of which the First Enchanter is working with or at the very least covering for) for near or a decade?  Meredith should not be working through intimidation, you are correct, but what option does she have in this situaiton?

Again, yes, but if you discover that there exists mutiny in the ranks, do you ignore it and hope it goes away, or do you attempt to find out where it is to destroy it or use it to your advantage?

[TEWR]

In this scenario, does Meredith not have evidence from the Mage Underground that there are Circle mages working with them?

Arguable. Once a Circle Mage leaves without Chantry/Templar/Circle Mage approval, he's an apostate until such time as he's brought back -- wherein he becomes a Circle Mage again.

That severs his involvement to the Circle.

Even Cullen notes that the Mage Underground consists of apostates and civilians working together. The only way you have evidence of the Mage Underground having ties to the Circle is if they left evidence talking about it -- like "our agent in Kirkwall's Gallows helped us with Mission 54X-D".

Though if they said "agent", Templars would also have to be possibly considered.

Has Kirkwall not been accosted by Blood Mages (some of which the First Enchanter is working with or at the very least covering for) for near or a decade?

Some implies multiple. That's not the case. It was only one, and I fervently believe that he was an unwitting accomplice in crimes most foul and when he did catch on about Quentin's true nature came to deeply regret his actions -- but could do nothing against Quentin in the sense of telling the Templars without simultaneously bringing ruin down upon the Circle due to the malevolent nature of Meredith's Templars -- who are noted to be, in-game, zealots and abusive of their authority.

Not just Alrik or Karras. Meredith actually promotes those with extreme views on Mages. Cullen, Mettin, etc.

And Kirkwall's suffered from blood mages for its entire existence. Meredith's predecessor never persecuted the Circle -- as you hear from Mages and Templars that before Meredith, the Circle was a different and more orderly place.

When you pursue monsters so much you're creating them, that makes you at fault. You can't push people into desperation by abusing them, torturing them, starving them, etc. and use their acts of fighting back as justification to perform more abuse, torture, starvation, etc.

And we know those things do in fact happen in Kirkwall's Circle.

Meredith should not be working through intimidation, you are correct, but what option does she have in this situaiton?

Negotiation. Not acting hostile. If she had been consistently pleading for Orsino to help, then maybe I could see her viewpoint.

If she had said "Orsino, with the high rise of blood mages I would like to perform a search of the Circle, with your consent. I realize this is a violation of the Mages' privacy, but I implore you to grant me this."

Meredith had ample opportunities in the past to approach Orsino in a diplomatic fashion and desire to bring Kirkwall's Circle peace -- like the Best Served Cold arc, where she knew more then Orsino did.

Even Orsino was not unwilling to go to the Templars about that, but he wanted to know for certain who was involved so that not all Mages would be targeted. Meredith however didn't want to approach Orsino for assistance.

He even tells Hawke that if sinister acts are performed, he should interfere.

Yet she enacted anti-mage measures in the Circle since her ascent to Knight-Commander -- when it's the First Enchanter who guides the Circle and she's supposed to work with Orsino on all matters -- that caused more discontent, and then used that to justify further anti-Mage measures.

She actively breeded a Circle of malevolence. More so when she began telling her zealotous templars -- the ones she picked herself -- to "purge" mage sympathizers, as the third person omniscient journal tells us.

If you're ignoring all other methods of discourse to achieve a goal, then saying "Intimidation was my only option" is a falsehood plain and simple.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 décembre 2012 - 05:38 .

[TCBC_Freak]

Meredith was driven mad by a magic sword she got to help her do her job; she didn't know it would make her lose it but it did. It took someone who was maybe a little too zealous but otherwise decent and made them a mad fanatic. She did what she did because of the sword, she wasn't evil before going crazy, and her being a Templar had nothing to do with what she did. The sword made her paranoid and a functioning psychotic. Her being a Templar, and thus addicted to lyrium, is probably the only reason she was functioning at all and able to have somewhat rational conversations and stayed her hand as long as she did; unlike Bertrand who was exposed to less of the red lyrium and for a shorter time but lost all his faculties.

This isn't directed at any one post specifically just something I think needs to be noted. Meredith is still at fault for her action since she bought the sword to help her hunt mages and her underlying personality was what got pushed to its limits. But right and wrong, law and order, and her limits of power had little to do with what she ultimately did so arguing over the legality of her actions is foolish because she was becoming more and more unstable and would have gone bats**t crazy soon enough anyway.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Everytime I read about mages in DA2 I find them more dreadful. It seems just a few of them remain good ...

[Lotion Soronarr]

thibaut72 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
If there was any chance you were conencted to a crime, the police would also search through your things. It isn't a punishment, it is a safety measure.

In a majority of "free" countries, you need have evidences (and not presumption) and the Court need to allow the police to do it, or only with the acceptence of the suspect.
In the case of Kirkwall, before Elthina's death, Meredith (police) need Elthina's order (the Court) or the agreement of Orsino (suspect).

Except back in ye old medieval times, you didn't. Because none of that stuff existed.
There was no real police, no real investigators, no real court system and no CSI.

And there were connections between the Gallows and hte blood mages. Hell, some of the mages that escape fling blood magic around like candy. It is obvious there are blood mages in the Circle.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Lord Aesir wrote...
1) This proves nothing.  You do realize we are dealing with the queen of paranoia and hatred for mages here, right?  It's not a horrible excuse because Meredith, with her temperament, is extremely likely to kill one Mage for being associated with blood magic and make tranquil another dozen for sleeping in the same dormitory.  It's an extremely valid concern, don't pretend it isn't.[/qutoe]

It proves everyhing.
For one, Meredith isn't a mage-hater (go ahead and prove that if you can).
For another, she has every reason to be paranoid (even wihout the idol).

And lastly, that pathetic exuse can be used ALL THE TIME. That alone makes it worthless, because the guiltiest of the guilty can use it always and in every situation.

[quote]
2) But without proof she can do nothing, so what?
[/quote]

She can do something alright. She's still the knight-commander.
And sheltering and protecting criminals certanly wont' do the non-guilty mages any favors.

In other words, fighting agaisnt tthe search only makes the situation worse.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Orsino is a moron.

Blood Mage activity is high, there are blood mages among the cirlce (we seen it ourselves) and you think it isn't justified?

Orsinos "if she finds something she will use it as an excuse to hound us all" is a HORRIBLE excuse because:
1) anyone can say that. For any search and for any reason. You can just as easily go "I won't allow the police to search my house because they can plant evidence" It's a blanket handwave to refuse any search...forver

That's why it's just good sense to refuse all police searches unless they have a warrant.

No such thing in TheDas.

Also, how does a warrant make planet evidence any LESS likely?
I'm sorry, but if the police has credible reasons to belive you're harboring a fugitive, they do have the right to search your house.
Your refusal won't convince them of your innocence - quite the contrary. They'll be even more convinced you are hiding something.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Aesir wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...
[
Having your room searched is not a harsh measure.  It may be seen as harsh here, but in Thedas, that's less than a slap on the wrist.  That Meredith needs permission from the First Enchanter to do it is baffling as well, if I am to believe some.  

But that isn't the point.  If there was evidence that the Mage  Underground had a contact inside the Circle, it is Meredith's duty to investigate it.  That would almost certainly include an investigation of the mage's quarters.  

But the Mage Underground had been destroyed by Act 3

Sez you. There's still blood mages runnign around.

And evne if you did destroy their members outside - what about the contacts inside the circle? What about all the mages FROM the circle we KNOW used bloodmagic?

You people baffle me.
If the police was searching for a serial rapist/pedophile in your neighborhood and had clues and reasons to suspect one guy from your street is hiding him, if that guy were to refuse a search you wouldn't defend him so fast.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Having your room searched is not a harsh measure. It may be seen as harsh here, but in Thedas, that's less than a slap on the wrist.

Didn't say it was. In principle anyway, it's a fair measure if a bit violating for some people.

Though when Meredith's calling it, you can bet your ass she has an ulterior motive behind it and she isn't doing it to be a good Templar. If Gregoir had proposed it, I'd back it all the way. Because Gregoir's a good man, if a bit stern. If Cullen had proposed it, I'd think about it a bit and consider it.

.....

And I'm willing to be my ass your motives for saying that are dark and you're not posting this to be a good poster.
I'm judging you according to my unsopported preconceptiosn and there is nothing you cna do about it. You are guilty and will be guilty for an eternity.
Nothing you say and do - no matter how rational or right it is - will be interpreted that way by me because I hate you.

Some bad poeple are drowning kittens by the river and you say we should rescoue the kittens? No.
You proposed it so it MUST be wrong. The kittens will die.

By the rules of the Circle, she actually does. A Knight-Commander wrote in a letter to his successor that it was his duty to work with the First Enchanter of a Circle, that the First Enchanter was the one would guide the Circle's actions, and so on.

I don't think she does. Orsino just wants to raise a ruckus.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 03 décembre 2012 - 11:33 .

[thibaut72]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

thibaut72 wrote...
In the case of Kirkwall, before Elthina's death, Meredith (police) need Elthina's order (the Court) or the agreement of Orsino (suspect).

Except back in ye old medieval times, you didn't. Because none of that stuff existed.
There was no real police, no real investigators, no real court system and no CSI.
And there were connections between the Gallows and hte blood mages. Hell, some of the mages that escape fling blood magic around like candy. It is obvious there are blood mages in the Circle.

Even in medieval society, you have laws, and even if you are KC, you can't go against the law. Police force exist for long time (fo exemple, gendarmerie is one millenia years old), and Court system too (Curia Regis)
When you said "it's obvious", it's just your speculation (and because you know the story)

I'm sorry, but if the police has credible reasons to belive
you're harboring a fugitive, they do have the right to search your
house.
Your refusal won't convince them of your innocence - quite the
contrary. They'll be even more convinced you are hiding something.

Nope, or only if you have evidence (or witness). You have not to convince them of your innocence, they just have to follow the rules. Suspicion isn't evidences, even in medieval societies.

[Lotion Soronarr]

thibaut72 wrote...

Even in medieval society, you have laws, and even if you are KC, you can't go against the law. Police force exist for long time (fo exemple, gendarmerie is one millenia years old), and Court system too (Curia Regis)
When you said "it's obvious", it's just your speculation (and because you know the story)

No, when I say "it's obvious" it is because it is.
We have several links between the Circle and mages. Contacts fro mthe mage underground, mages from the Cirlce using blood mages, Quentin and Orsino, etc, ec...

To simply ignore it is folly. It was Merediths DUTY to investigate that. The search of hte Circle was 100000% justifed and it wasn't agaisnt the law - Orsino was just throwing a fit because he himself is guilty.

I'm sorry, but if the police has credible reasons to belive
you're harboring a fugitive, they do have the right to search your
house.
Your refusal won't convince them of your innocence - quite the
contrary. They'll be even more convinced you are hiding something.

Nope, or only if you have evidence (or witness). You have not to convince them of your innocence, they just have to follow the rules. Suspicion isn't evidences, even in medieval societies.

Tehy have the right to search the Circle. PERIOD.

[thibaut72]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No, when I say "it's obvious" it is because it is.
We have several links between the Circle and mages. Contacts fro mthe mage underground, mages from the Cirlce using blood mages, Quentin and Orsino, etc, ec...
To simply ignore it is folly. It was Merediths DUTY to investigate that. The search of hte Circle was 100000% justifed and it wasn't agaisnt the law - Orsino was just throwing a fit because he himself is guilty.

It's only your interpretation : we only know that Orsino and Quentin are linked in the last act (the letter is signed with O, so Orisno or Oliver, or Owen or...). And there is no contact : the unique link is that those mages escape from the circle (and you never ask why...).
Even if we can find one case, why Meredith don't want Elthina's judgement ? Simply because she know she was wrong (as you said Orsino is guilty). When she ask for search, she don't ask, she require it as a despot, and she don't like that someone can contradict her...

Tehy have the right to search the Circle. PERIOD.

Only with Orsino's acceptance or Elthina's order (it's the rules of the Chantry and the circles)

[Lotion Soronarr]

thibaut72 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No, when I say "it's obvious" it is because it is.
We have several links between the Circle and mages. Contacts fro mthe mage underground, mages from the Cirlce using blood mages, Quentin and Orsino, etc, ec...
To simply ignore it is folly. It was Merediths DUTY to investigate that. The search of hte Circle was 100000% justifed and it wasn't agaisnt the law - Orsino was just throwing a fit because he himself is guilty.

It's only your interpretation : we only know that Orsino and Quentin are linked in the last act (the letter is signed with O, so Orisno or Oliver, or Owen or...). And there is no contact : the unique link is that those mages escape from the circle (and you never ask why...).
Even if we can find one case, why Meredith don't want Elthina's judgement ? Simply because she know she was wrong (as you said Orsino is guilty). When she ask for search, she don't ask, she require it as a despot, and she don't like that someone can contradict her...

It's not interpertation, it's fact.
There's more then enough reasons to warrant a search.

Circle mages are aiding the Underground. Mages from the circle DO dabble in blood magic.

As a Templar it is her duty to investigate and the first Enchanter doesn't have the right to stop a search.

Tehy have the right to search the Circle. PERIOD.

Only with Orsino's acceptance or Elthina's order (it's the rules of the Chantry and the circles)

Now, that applies only for tranquality, not for a simple search.

If everything requires the FE's and Reverend Mothers approval, then most of the pro-mage argumetns of the horrible circe system fall apart.

[Palidane]

What are you guys even arguing? How is Meredith searching the tower a big deal? She was completely justified in doing it, and Orsino denied her to cover himself.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You people baffle me.
If the police was searching for a serial rapist/pedophile in your neighborhood and had clues and reasons to suspect one guy from your street is hiding him, if that guy were to refuse a search you wouldn't defend him so fast.

No, but he'd be legally entitled to refuse all the same, except if there's enough evidence to provide probable cause.* I got to this particular argument late, but I think this is what this argument is mostly about, whether the law is on Meredith's side here.

* Probable Cause applies to one house, not a whole block. If the Circle system allows templars to do something different, then fine.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 03 décembre 2012 - 06:12 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Palidane wrote...

What are you guys even arguing? How is Meredith searching the tower a big deal? She was completely justified in doing it, and Orsino denied her to cover himself.

In point of fact, what she was searching for was there. But does she cite any evidence to Orsino when trying to force the searches? If so, she was justified. If not, she might still have been justified, we just don't have proof.

Edit: Notice that a justified search is not the same as a legal search, and I have no trouble believing either way that searches without evidence are legal or illegal under the Circle system.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 03 décembre 2012 - 06:22 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Legatus Arianus wrote...

Everytime I read about mages in DA2 I find them more dreadful. It seems just a few of them remain good ...

I think the idea was that everyone's gut reaction to this situation is to sympathise with the mages, rather than the templars. To some extent, that's my gut reaction too, only the fact remains that mages are dangerous enough that they should not be allowed total freedom. Of course, that doesn't change my mind about Meredith going about it the wrong way in Act III.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Also, how does a warrant make planet evidence any LESS likely?
I'm sorry, but if the police has credible reasons to belive you're harboring a fugitive, they do have the right to search your house.
Your refusal won't convince them of your innocence - quite the contrary. They'll be even more convinced you are hiding something.

Not that this is relevant to Thedas, but...
1: The cops don't have the right to search your house just because they have credible reasons to think you're harboring a fugitive. They have the right to take those credible reasons before a judge, and if the judge okays it, they have the right to execute a search warrant.
2: Anyone who knows the system doesn't cooperate with the cops. They don't become suspicious if you refuse a search, they shrug and back down, and get a warrant if they can.
3: Legally valid exceptions to 1 and 2 tend to revolve around either consent or the cops having credible reasons to believe the evidence won't be there if they spend the time a warrant will take. And cops don't like to take the latter (though they will if they have to) because a defense attorney (Thedas would be a better place with these) can make them look bad this way.

[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You people baffle me.
If the police was searching for a serial rapist/pedophile in your neighborhood and had clues and reasons to suspect one guy from your street is hiding him, if that guy were to refuse a search you wouldn't defend him so fast.

That's a different situation.
The mage situation is more like a member of a group(religious, social, fan club, whatever) commits a crime and so the entire group has to have their houses gone through to make sure they aren't planning the same thing.

[TheJediSaint]

Auintus wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You people baffle me.
If the police was searching for a serial rapist/pedophile in your neighborhood and had clues and reasons to suspect one guy from your street is hiding him, if that guy were to refuse a search you wouldn't defend him so fast.

That's a different situation.
The mage situation is more like a member of a group(religious, social, fan club, whatever) commits a crime and so the entire group has to have their houses gone through to make sure they aren't planning the same thing.

Except, you know?  That group being capable of throwing fireballs, mind-controling people, and being somewhat prone to becoming possesed killing-machines.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheJediSaint wrote...

Auintus wrote...


That's a different situation.
The mage situation is more like a member of a group(religious, social, fan club, whatever) commits a crime and so the entire group has to have their houses gone through to make sure they aren't planning the same thing.

Except, you know?  That group being capable of throwing fireballs, mind-controling people, and being somewhat prone to becoming possesed killing-machines.

Yeah, but none of that's evidence of a crime. Edit: Well, unless you watch them mind-control someone.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 03 décembre 2012 - 06:54 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Palidane wrote...

What are you guys even arguing? How is Meredith searching the tower a big deal? She was completely justified in doing it, and Orsino denied her to cover himself.

In point of fact, what she was searching for was there. But does she cite any evidence to Orsino when trying to force the searches? If so, she was justified. If not, she might still have been justified, we just don't have proof.

Edit: Notice that a justified search is not the same as a legal search, and I have no trouble believing either way that searches without evidence are legal or illegal under the Circle system.

She doens't have to cite evidence to Orsino (and for all we know she already has) - we KNOW she was justified because we saw all the connections between the Circle and blood mages.
Meredith can also put 2+2 together and so can other templars.

Mages running form the circle are using blood magic (where did they learn it if not in the Circle?). Mage underground has connections to the Circle. More than enough to search.

Hell, given the danger blood mages present, Meredith would have been justified even if she anal probed each and every mage.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 03 décembre 2012 - 08:24 .