1297 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I sincerely doubt that a Tranquil ever display emotion, since they are specifically cut off from their emotion. What they do exhibit is a behavioral pattern reminicent of their previous life. Logic is not universal, and the Tranquil will follow what they thought logical before the Rite. However, while you can't beat a computer, a Tranquil still has nerve centers and can feel pain, so an easy why to teach a Tranquil what to do, and what not to do, is to apply pain. Since if the Tranquil is going to connect something uncomfortable as pain, to specific deeds, then the Tranquil won't keep doing said deed.

Owain attempts to flee the demons, but upon finding his path blocked, goes back to the stockroom, on the grounds that it is familiar and he is comfortable there. That sounds like an emotional reaction to me, and I doubt it would have been what he considered logical before the Rite. If it was that, his reaction to the barrier would be to get someone's attention so that he could get behind the barrier. Plus, if you save the Tranquil in the tower who are being turned into shades, one of the lines they can give is "Thank you. That was an uncomfortable experience." It sounds like they still have emotions, they're just stunted.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 05 décembre 2012 - 05:01 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Comfort can also be purely physical. Perhaps Owain went back to the stockroom because he knew the entrances and exits which would maximize his chances of escape. There could be all kinds of logical reasons for returning to that particular spot.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

How about Bethany? She seems to be content and sez as much.

She doesn't stay content. Things deteriorate rather fast.

Which is beside the point.
She was content for years in what is called the worst Circle in TheDas.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Yeah, there was one exit that didn't eventually lead back to the Harrowing Chamber. And he used it, found it blocked, and went right back to the stockroom instead of shouting for help. This doesn't sound like a logical or an emotional reaction. It sounds more like an emotional reaction, though.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 05 décembre 2012 - 05:17 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Meredith was already trying to get the RoA, she just got rejected by Elthina on the grounds that the Rite wasn't justified. The second she has the legal authority to authorize it herself, she does so. In the interim, she tries to force a search of the tower looking for evidence of illegal activity. She was of course going to punish the mages involved, but do you really think she wasn't also going to use what she found to try and push harder for an anullment?

That isn't proof.
If the search found anything, she would still have to bring it before Elthina.

You cannot prove that the reson behind the search was Annulemnt, and not just looking to root out blood mages.
In fac,t being hte creature of duty, Meredith would focus even harder on doing what she can when the RoA was rejected.
Aslo, at no point does anything imply she hates the mages.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

How about Bethany? She seems to be content and sez as much.

She doesn't stay content. Things deteriorate rather fast.

Which is beside the point.
She was content for years in what is called the worst Circle in TheDas.

Since it's meant to be a home for life, the place ought to be someplace you can be content for more than a few years.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Meredith was already trying to get the RoA, she just got rejected by Elthina on the grounds that the Rite wasn't justified. The second she has the legal authority to authorize it herself, she does so. In the interim, she tries to force a search of the tower looking for evidence of illegal activity. She was of course going to punish the mages involved, but do you really think she wasn't also going to use what she found to try and push harder for an anullment?

That isn't proof.
If the search found anything, she would still have to bring it before Elthina.

Judging by her actions both beforehand and afterwards, she would have. I don't think "that's not proof" sufficiently answers that point.

You cannot prove that the reson behind the search was Annulemnt, and not just looking to root out blood mages.
In fac,t being hte creature of duty, Meredith would focus even harder on doing what she can when the RoA was rejected.
Aslo, at no point does anything imply she hates the mages.

The fact that she tried the Annulment, the fact that she apparently turned magi Tranquil illegally, the fact that she let Alrik have any authority over them whatsoever. Edit: And since I haven't actually played through the game, I'm probably missing some.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 05 décembre 2012 - 05:36 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Again, beside the point. The circle deteriorated because of Merediths insanity nad rampant blood mages.

Which means that before the idol it was a nice place. And the other circles are even nicer.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Again, beside the point. The circle deteriorated because of Merediths insanity nad rampant blood mages.

Which means that before the idol it was a nice place. And the other circles are even nicer.

Actually, I don't remember anything on whether or not the Circle was a nice place beforehand, even in the context of it being originally designed as a fortress built to hold slaves, repurposed to hold people who are in a legal situation some forumites compare to slavery. I do remember Ser Alrik is there even in Act I, and apparently has some authority over the other templars judging by his note found with Karl, so that's not a good sign.

[BlueMagitek]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Again, beside the point. The circle deteriorated because of Merediths insanity nad rampant blood mages.

Which means that before the idol it was a nice place. And the other circles are even nicer.

I have to disagree, if only on the basis that the Circle should not be anywhere near a city.  That invites a host of problems.  While Mages do get more interaction, you also have potentially more/easier escape attempts, more opportunities for the troublemakers to get near the Circle, you'd need a manpower increase to deal with the close contact to civilians.  Bleh, it's a mess.

[The Elder King]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Again, beside the point. The circle deteriorated because of Merediths insanity nad rampant blood mages.

Which means that before the idol it was a nice place. And the other circles are even nicer.

I have to disagree, if only on the basis that the Circle should not be anywhere near a city.  That invites a host of problems.  While Mages do get more interaction, you also have potentially more/easier escape attempts, more opportunities for the troublemakers to get near the Circle, you'd need a manpower increase to deal with the close contact to civilians.  Bleh, it's a mess.

Lotion was talking about the mages's treatment, not the location.
Which I disagree. Even before Meredith's insane path, mages had insane punishements or treatments (Karl's tranquilization, ser Otto's "tranquil solution") Either Meredith allowed those treatments, or the templars had too much freedom to act as they wish, and this is clearly shown in Ander's Act 2 quest, when ser Otto tranquilized several mages and continued to do it despite both Meredith and Elthina's refulsals. He was able to do it, and Meredith wasn't aware of this. A KC should be more vigiliant about his/her templars (though to be fair Orsino should've be demoted to, since he either wasn't aware, or was concerned about more important things, like exploring Quentin's research :S)

Modifié par hhh89, 06 décembre 2012 - 12:43 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Finally someone who realizes that Orsino is also to blame for Ser Otto's continued Tranquilization of mages... Don't count on anyone buying into that though, since Orsino is generally considered an oh so poor victim of circumstance...

[The Elder King]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Finally someone who realizes that Orsino is also to blame for Ser Otto's continued Tranquilization of mages... Don't count on anyone buying into that though, since Orsino is generally considered an oh so poor victim of circumstance...

Of course he is. I mean, a lot of mages and templars should've noticed that more mages were tranquilized in that period of time, but the First Enchanter is responsible for all mages. He should've find the reason why those mages were Tranquilized. Both him and Meredith were incompetent and to blame for Ser Otto's abuse.

[EmperorSahlertz]

To be fair to both Meredith and Orsino has to keep track of hundreds of Mages and Templars, when a few more become Tranquil, in a circle with an already unusually high amount, it could be hard to keep track of all their faces.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I also remember reading in the pre-production stuff that in Kirkwall, the title "First Enchanter" is roughly as prestigious as "Prisoners' Representative" and that Orsino got the job mainly because nobody more qualified than he was wanted it. Not sure how much of that is still canon, though...

[BlueMagitek]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

I also remember reading in the pre-production stuff that in Kirkwall, the title "First Enchanter" is roughly as prestigious as "Prisoners' Representative" and that Orsino got the job mainly because nobody more qualified than he was wanted it. Not sure how much of that is still canon, though...

I remember hearing the latter part of that as well.

Hmm.  It looks like Orsino and Meredith are both pretty bad at their jobs.  It would have been nice had there been an option to reveal this and have Meredith kill those Templar. :/

Ah well, such is life.

[Flurdt Vash]

I would have liked the option to walk away and let both factions just kill each other , or destroy both! As I posted earlier, (I personally) didnt feel either side was in the right, they had both been looking for an excuse to kill each other. Id like to have wasted them both .

Now that I think of this, Im reminded of a game play I did were I went right down the middle the whole way, very fun I thought . At the last conversation with Merideth, Anders and Orseno I even picked the "Not getting involved" option and I got told by Anders I had to chose, then the option was mage or temp. I was so agitated .. I fliped a coin

Modifié par Flurdt07, 07 décembre 2012 - 02:22 .

[HTTP 404]

I doubt it. I like to be a pro-money character.

[HTTP 404]

Flurdt07 wrote...

I would have liked the option to walk away and let both factions just kill each other , or destroy both! As I posted earlier, (I personally) didnt feel either side was in the right, they had both been looking for an excuse to kill each other. Id like to have wasted them both .

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  Thedas would be better off without mages and templars(chantry) right?

Modifié par HTTP 404, 07 décembre 2012 - 02:19 .

[Flurdt Vash]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Flurdt07 wrote...

I would have liked the option to walk away and let both factions just kill each other , or destroy both! As I posted earlier, (I personally) didnt feel either side was in the right, they had both been looking for an excuse to kill each other. Id like to have wasted them both .

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  Thedas would be better off without mages and templars(chantry) right?

Agreed. Its getting to the point (and this I have said before as well) that its reminding me of X Men, the whole Humans and Mutants thing. Would really like to move on.

My (personal) opinion, the whole Qun war in act 2 was the best part of the game, I would love to play in a war for Thedas with everyone vs the Qunari. I would be a little more into that  .... again just personal opinion here .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

There's a parody fanfic that I really think captures the murkiness of the issue. (Oddly enough.) Hawke defends her decision to defend the mages by saying "These people are... some of them are... there has got to be a few innocent mages in Kirkwall and they don't deserve to be slaughtered like this." Does that about cover it?

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 07 décembre 2012 - 02:43 .

[HTTP 404]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

There's a parody fanfic that I really think captures the murkiness of the issue. (Oddly enough.) Hawke defends her decision to defend the mages by saying "These people are... some of them are... there has got to be a few innocent mages in Kirkwall and they don't deserve to be slaughtered like this." Does that about cover it?

Thaaats pretty much summed up how I view the templar-mage conflict.  If I could, as hawke, I would burned the dock and boats and left the templars and mages to kill each other at the Tower and make sure their fight wouldn't spill over to the city.  I would rather fight for the regular folks....and the money.

[Flurdt Vash]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

There's a parody fanfic that I really think captures the murkiness of the issue. (Oddly enough.) Hawke defends her decision to defend the mages by saying "These people are... some of them are... there has got to be a few innocent mages in Kirkwall and they don't deserve to be slaughtered like this." Does that about cover it?

Thaaats pretty much summed up how I view the templar-mage conflict.  If I could, as hawke, I would burned the dock and boats and left the templars and mages to kill each other at the Tower and make sure their fight wouldn't spill over to the city.  I would rather fight for the regular folks....and the money.

Now this is an alternate ending dlc I would have paid for lol:D

Modifié par Flurdt07, 07 décembre 2012 - 03:31 .