201 réponses à ce sujet

[Knight of Dane]

I hope not, most of my save files doesnt even have him and even then he's nothing more to me than a Archdemon escape button.

[hadrain77]

The problem is that the OGB was actually kind of hard to pull off. First you needed a newly minted GW because according to Morrigan an older one would of been too tainted (Riordan out), why she was sent with you by Flemeth. We know that Allistar and yourself where the only GWs left in Ferelden because they were exiled (Wardens Keep) or killed at Battle of Ostagar. Ritual had to be performed on eve of battle and Morrigan would of had to be near the Archdemon when it died so its soul could travel to her unborn child, so anyone who refused or kicked her out would of been out of luck. With all that it would be kinda hard to make it canon, but we all know Bioware so you never know.

[samgrave]

hadrain77 wrote...

The problem is that the OGB was actually kind of hard to pull off. First you needed a newly minted GW because according to Morrigan an older one would of been too tainted (Riordan out), why she was sent with you by Flemeth. We know that Allistar and yourself where the only GWs left in Ferelden because they were exiled (Wardens Keep) or killed at Battle of Ostagar. Ritual had to be performed on eve of battle and Morrigan would of had to be near the Archdemon when it died so its soul could travel to her unborn child, so anyone who refused or kicked her out would of been out of luck. With all that it would be kinda hard to make it canon, but we all know Bioware so you never know.

True, but that does not discount the possibility to circumvent this problem, much like ME did with the Rachni Queen issue. If the Warden left Morrigan high and dry, what is is not to say that Flemeth got hold of Morrigan and did some magic stuff on her so she ended up pregnant with an "Old God v2.0"? Or for that matter, there *could* have been another GW present, perhaps Alistair/Loghairn took it upon themselves (off screen) to initiate one of the soliders into becoming a Warden before the battle, and Morrigan seduced that solider? Also, what is to say that Morrigan wasn't lying when she said that bit about the stuff about the need of having to have blood that hadn't been corrupted? Perhaps she just wasn't attracted to Riordan and wanted to compell the Warden or Alistair/Loghairn to bed her? Morrigan, as we know, isn't the most up-front and honest person in the game and maybe should could have made do with Riordan anyway incase all else failed. Far-fetched theories for sure, but if there is a will there is a way and I am sure Bioware could continue this stoyline without too much hassle.

Alternativley, they could create an alternative quest for those who fobbed off Morrigan. Perhaps they would get to have a final showdown with Flemeth instead of the Old God Child (who might have destroyed Flemeth in the event that he exists).

Also, regarding the "problem" that OGB's appearance would be too difficult to customise to to the different races the warden could have been, is easily dismissed. Remember, we are taling about and Old God child, who was greated through some freaky magic. He would probably have a unique physical appearance no matter what his progenitors looked like. He only needs then to enter the world but he does not need to share their genetic structure. We have to assume he is a Demi-God of some kind (half-God, half-magic) and thus not human.   

[Plaintiff]

For quite a few people, the plot was resolved in DA:O. Morrigan didn't get pregnant, the end.

I'm thinking that we'll probably see reference to the Old God Child in DA3, but I wouldn't expect anything world-changing if I were you.

[Maria Caliban]

samgrave wrote...

I always throught that the story concerning Morrigan's possible child was left unresolved in DA:Origin, and the matter was not even touched upon in DA II do my great dismay. Is there any chance we will finally get to see the resolution to this loose end in DA III? If not in the main plot, then at the very least in a passing reference made by other charachters, or in a lore book found somewhere along one's adventures.

What do you mean by a resolution?

If you did the Dark Ritual, Morrigan and brat are hanging out in the Eluvian.

[samgrave]

Maria Caliban wrote...

samgrave wrote...

I always throught that the story concerning Morrigan's possible child was left unresolved in DA:Origin, and the matter was not even touched upon in DA II do my great dismay. Is there any chance we will finally get to see the resolution to this loose end in DA III? If not in the main plot, then at the very least in a passing reference made by other charachters, or in a lore book found somewhere along one's adventures.

What do you mean by a resolution?

If you did the Dark Ritual, Morrigan and brat are hanging out in the Eluvian.

Yeah, exactly my point! We need to know what her game was in doing that! Naturally, she's not planning on staying in the Eluvian, she hinted that she planned on usurping Flemeth and a qualified guess is that she'll need the Old God Child to do that as Flemeth is not easily killed. (as is testified by her appearance in DA:II). Furthermore, the DA lore has not explained what the "Eluvian" is, so that is another thing left to be resolved in DA:III.

[Irku]

samgrave wrote...

hadrain77 wrote...

The problem is that the OGB was actually kind of hard to pull off. First you needed a newly minted GW because according to Morrigan an older one would of been too tainted (Riordan out), why she was sent with you by Flemeth. We know that Allistar and yourself where the only GWs left in Ferelden because they were exiled (Wardens Keep) or killed at Battle of Ostagar. Ritual had to be performed on eve of battle and Morrigan would of had to be near the Archdemon when it died so its soul could travel to her unborn child, so anyone who refused or kicked her out would of been out of luck. With all that it would be kinda hard to make it canon, but we all know Bioware so you never know.

True, but that does not discount the possibility to circumvent this problem, much like ME did with the Rachni Queen issue. If the Warden left Morrigan high and dry, what is is not to say that Flemeth got hold of Morrigan and did some magic stuff on her so she ended up pregnant with an "Old God v2.0"? Or for that matter, there *could* have been another GW present, perhaps Alistair/Loghairn took it upon themselves (off screen) to initiate one of the soliders into becoming a Warden before the battle, and Morrigan seduced that solider? Also, what is to say that Morrigan wasn't lying when she said that bit about the stuff about the need of having to have blood that hadn't been corrupted? Perhaps she just wasn't attracted to Riordan and wanted to compell the Warden or Alistair/Loghairn to bed her? Morrigan, as we know, isn't the most up-front and honest person in the game and maybe should could have made do with Riordan anyway incase all else failed. Far-fetched theories for sure, but if there is a will there is a way and I am sure Bioware could continue this stoyline without too much hassle.

Alternativley, they could create an alternative quest for those who fobbed off Morrigan. Perhaps they would get to have a final showdown with Flemeth instead of the Old God Child (who might have destroyed Flemeth in the event that he exists).

Also, regarding the "problem" that OGB's appearance would be too difficult to customise to to the different races the warden could have been, is easily dismissed. Remember, we are taling about and Old God child, who was greated through some freaky magic. He would probably have a unique physical appearance no matter what his progenitors looked like. He only needs then to enter the world but he does not need to share their genetic structure. We have to assume he is a Demi-God of some kind (half-God, half-magic) and thus not human.   

Maybe the OGC is the only one who can stop the Darkspawn or the original magisters like Corypheus, but if he is non-existant then not choosing the ritual would come back to bite you. For a game about choices and consequences it would be epic.

[Doctoglethorpe]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

OGB can be possibly:

Human Warden's Child
Elf Warden's Child
Dwarf Warden's Child
Loghain's Child
Alistair's Child

Unless his 100% morrigan clone but male, it'll raise many questions of why he looks a certain way.

Hybrids all look human.  Just  give him mostly Morrigan's features, problem solved. 

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 19 novembre 2012 - 01:21 .

[Navasha]

I am pretty sure that the god child is born and raised, then transported back in time a bit to the deep roads where he is later found by Bohdan.

[BlueMagitek]

I would be fine not knowing, really. It's meant to be a sort of deal with the devil. Morrigan, a known temptress and manipulator (she admits as such), offers an out that would spare your life (having known this from the beginning and not saying a word about it to you) or the life of your comrade. All she wants is a child with the power of an Old God. A creature that you were tasked to slay, the entire point of your adventure. Of course, she will only raise it herself, and flee far away from you or your reach of influence. There is also the issue of Flemeth, who you may or may not have dealt with (that you know of). Considering you're more or less putting the archdemon into another mortal body, there's no real guarantee here other than that your life will be spared. You may be dooming the world years later from now. Who knows?

Which is a bit of the appeal of it, really.

[Silfren]

samgrave wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

It would depend on whether Morrigan herself appears (this is why, I believe, this choice wasn't in DA2). Since Morrigan is most likely going to be in DA3 in some form, then yes, I'm guessing the Dark Ritual subplot is going to come to some form of resolution. (Though it's worth noting that it was an optional decision, so it can't be all that significant in terms of how it affects DA3.)

True, but as we learned from ME, choices don't always matter, things have a way of happening no matter how hard to try to fight against them. The identity of the father would not necessarily be delved into to any greater extent, just the fact that Morrigan has a child and whatplans she has for the Old God child. Hypothetically, she could always have seduced Riordan or (in secret) Alistair/Loghairn in case the warden rejected her "offer". Or she might have found another warden somewhere else after the final battle and had a child that way.


Still, I think the plot was haning to much in the air for it to be considered resolved by any stretch of the imagination, even with the Witch Hunt DLC, which in my opinion did the opposite of resolvning the matter, but rather added more loose ends.  

Re: the bolded portions, no.  You're not thinking this all the way through.  Morrigan explicitly states that Riordan is not an acceptable alternative to the Warden (if male) or Alistair/Loghain, because she needs a Warden who hasn't been tainted long.  And obviously she could not have seduced anyone in secret, because if the DR is refused, then whoever kills the archdemon dies.  Since if she had seduced a Warden secretly, the slayer of the archdemon would live, well, then...there's just no way to retcon that in any remotely believable way, and given the nature of the choice affected here, it would ****** off more fans to an even greater extent than, say, retconning Leliana's potential death from Origins.

This is also why finding a Warden after the battle would be irrelevant--Morrigan needs to do this ritual specifically for the soul of the Old God within the archdemon.  It's rather obviously pointless for her to have sex with a Warden after the archdemon is killed. 

[ashesandwine]

Navasha wrote...

I am pretty sure that the god child is born and raised, then transported back in time a bit to the deep roads where he is later found by Bohdan.

Not sure if my warden's child is a darwf or just really short. I demand a DNA test!

Modifié par ashesandwine, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:57 .

[Nonoru]

Wouldn't make sense. The Mage-Templar conflict starts just after what happens in Kirkwall. Then it escalates to a large scale war some times after that. Morrigan's child would be too young to have a significant role.

You can expect few years left again before he/she becomes a character. Can't make a timeskip now either so i wouldn't expect it before DA4 or 5.

[Silfren]

hadrain77 wrote...

The problem is that the OGB was actually kind of hard to pull off. First you needed a newly minted GW because according to Morrigan an older one would of been too tainted (Riordan out), why she was sent with you by Flemeth. We know that Allistar and yourself where the only GWs left in Ferelden because they were exiled (Wardens Keep) or killed at Battle of Ostagar. Ritual had to be performed on eve of battle and Morrigan would of had to be near the Archdemon when it died so its soul could travel to her unborn child, so anyone who refused or kicked her out would of been out of luck. With all that it would be kinda hard to make it canon, but we all know Bioware so you never know.

Just a nitpick, it is NEVER said that Morrigan had to be in close proximity to the archdemon.  This isn't so much as hinted at, anywhere.  Note that you can leave her behind when choosing your party to go and face the Archdemon.

Now, another nitpick, just to make people hate me and yell at me:  it isn't "would of" but "would've."  You're writing out the contracted form of "would have." Yes, it sounds like "would of" when you hear it spoken, but it's actually "would've."  "Would of" doesn't make any sense if you think about it, "of" not being a verb at all.

[TEWR]

Silfren wrote...

And obviously she could not have seduced anyone in secret, because if the DR is refused, then whoever kills the archdemon dies

Wartime injuries. It's a fact of war. People will die in battle from injuries sustained. Cheap it may be to some people, but it's hardly unheard of.

That said, Bioware *could* have Morrigan use an alternative means to have an OGB that requires more time, more power, and is riskier where she tries to take Urthemiel's soul back from where it went upon the Archdemon's death -- since matters regarding the souls of anyone are outside the jurisdiction of mortals.

Though hopefully Bioware wouldn't have Morrigan have Urthemiel go into her and go all "A God Am I" and other such nonsense.

EDIT: And where have you been lurking Silfren?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 novembre 2012 - 05:17 .

[Silfren]

samgrave wrote...


True, but that does not discount the possibility to circumvent this problem, much like ME did with the Rachni Queen issue. If the Warden left Morrigan high and dry, what is is not to say that Flemeth got hold of Morrigan and did some magic stuff on her so she ended up pregnant with an "Old God v2.0"? Or for that matter, there *could* have been another GW present, perhaps Alistair/Loghairn took it upon themselves (off screen) to initiate one of the soliders into becoming a Warden before the battle, and Morrigan seduced that solider? Also, what is to say that Morrigan wasn't lying when she said that bit about the stuff about the need of having to have blood that hadn't been corrupted? Perhaps she just wasn't attracted to Riordan and wanted to compell the Warden or Alistair/Loghairn to bed her? Morrigan, as we know, isn't the most up-front and honest person in the game and maybe should could have made do with Riordan anyway incase all else failed. Far-fetched theories for sure, but if there is a will there is a way and I am sure Bioware could continue this stoyline without too much hassle.

You're not really thinking any of this through at all. There were no other Grey Wardens present, and Morrigan is not the sort of character to lie about needing corrupted blood just to con the Warden or Alistair or Loghain into sleeping with her (Although I think you mean something other than corrupted--by definition all Wardens have corrupted blood).  She's practical minded to a fault--she isn't going to give a rat's ass about whether she's attracted to Riordan or not, if her sole purpose is in getting pregnant.  Going further, Alistair certainly would not have made some random person a Warden and not have told The Warden about it.  Loghain MIGHT have, but the odds of that are so ridiculously slim as to not be worth mentioning.  The only Warden present who knew how to enact the Joining was Riordan, and we're given no reason at all to believe that he passed on that knowledge to anyone else just before the battle.  Even so, given the importance of having as many Wardens on hand, there is NO WAY that someone would have been made a Warden in secret, who was just left to their own devices afterward.  And even if that had been the case, what with the revelation that whoever kills the archdemon is killed along with it, if Morrigan had found some random Warden to do the DR with her, then whoever killed the archdemon would not have died.  Since if you refuse the DR, someone DOES die, well... 

Retconning that detail in a sort of "GOTCHA!" plot twist in a future game would be too cheap and hackneyed...it's on the level of soap-opera writing, and for all their mistakes, I don't think the DA writing team would stoop to something so cheesy, I really just don't.  

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Silfren wrote...

And obviously she could not have seduced anyone in secret, because if the DR is refused, then whoever kills the archdemon dies

Wartime injuries. It's a fact of war. People will die in battle from injuries sustained. Cheap it may be to some people, but it's hardly unheard of.

EDIT: And where have you been lurking Silfren?

You're missing my point, TEWR.  If the ritual isn't carried out, then whoever kills the archdemon dies.  That's the natural, expected state of things, which Riordan makes clear to two, possibly three people.  So if Morrigan had found some way to do the DR without the Warden, Alistair, or Loghain, the fact that nobody did die while killing the archdemon would not exactly go unnoticed, and would by no means go unmentioned.  Unless you want me to believe that Morrigan would have gone to the trouble of positioning some way to assassinate the archdemon's killer immediately following the battle, in order to hide her crime.  And assassinated any one who was hanging about as a witness. It would be far too cumbersome a plot to retcon in any way that was plausible, and I do think that Bioware recognizes just exactly how much of a fandom backlash that would create, enough to not even consider going there.

EDIT: Oh, and I've been...kinda around?  Mostly watching SPN episodes, doing NaNoWriMo, getting buried alive under snow, and I just bought a brand new car.  I'll throw the details at ya in that PM.

Modifié par Silfren, 19 novembre 2012 - 05:50 .

[Iron_JG]

In episodic fiction, 'resolve' is a dirty word. Will Morrigan come up in DA3? It would be cool as hell. Will the OGB and DR? Possibly. They offer some interesting narrative possibilities -- I couldn't blame Bioware for introducing the OGB even if it takes some squaring of circles.

While Grey Warden wisdom holds that a warden that slays an archdemon destroys both, I question how accurate that is. Supposing the old god's soul is simply banished to the Fade, it doesn't seem so implausible to me that some ritual could retether its soul to a physical vessel. More than enough years have passed in-universe for Morrigan to carry out a ritual to create an OGB regardless of the warden's decision. It should be acknowledged whether the warden sped up or slowed down her plans, however.

As I've written elsewhere, I think it'd be awesome for a Flemeth-Morrigan conflict to serve as the undercurrent for the mage-templar war. Both of their plans seem to involve the old gods and a new world order. Supposition on my part, but I could see Flemeth's goal as reviving the Tevinter Imperium in all its OG-supported glory, which could involve her subjugating them and pretty much everything else. Morrigan's motive could instead be to restore OGs as a primal force in the world, favoring freedom (and no small amount of chaos) over unjust order. I think this could be a source of continuing and schweet story lines.

Regardless, I hope Flemeth and Morrigan continue to be sources of enigma. Part of what has made them intriguing is their moral ambiguity -- considering how messed up the rest of world is, I always wonder if realizing their goals would be improvements.

[Silfren]

I THINK an OGB story could be possible, but only in a way similar to Awakening. Awakening was set up so that you could import a Warden who had made the Ultimate Sacrifice, after all. Of course, Bioware REALLY screwed up on that one in the way it handled import decisions, but anyway. I could see a standalone DA title dealing with the OGB, as its own story. This would allow importing for anyone who had chosen the DR, and of course it could be written so that people who refused it could nevertheless import a save, though it would also require certain retconning of their import choices.

The downside is that it would be difficult to write this as a standalone story outside of the continuum of the larger Thedas plotline.

[TEWR]

Silfren wrote...

You're missing my point, TEWR. If the ritual isn't carried out, then whoever kills the archdemon dies. That's the natural, expected state of things, which Riordan makes clear to two, possibly three people. So if Morrigan had found some way to do the DR without the Warden, Alistair, or Loghain, the fact that nobody did die while killing the archdemon would not exactly go unnoticed, and would by no means go unmentioned.

You misunderstood my post, I think.

I'm just trying to argue that it should be recognized how a Warden can die from wartime injuries in a non DR path upon killing the Archdemon. No one's immune to that. Not even a Warden. So the idea that the Warden could only die if he refused the ritual is, realistically, not true. Gameplay wise and according to DG, that's how it is. 

Though DG did seem, by his statements in the past, to not have recognized how soldiers who are injured in battle don't always survive -- as when he first talked about this subject, his statements said simply "If Morrigan could've gotten the OGB, then the Warden wouldn't have died if you refused her!"

I'm not saying a live Warden could be killed under pretense of wartime injuries. I'm saying a non DR Warden who died could easily be said to have died from wartime injuries as opposed to a battle of souls, since there's no real way to distinguish the cause of death between the two.

Like I said, matters of the soul is something that rests outside the purview of mortals, despite how much we argue it. 


That said, I could come up with a way that would preserve the Warden's death -- whoever did the deed against the Archdemon -- whilst simultaneously having Morrigan acquiring an OGB sometime after the climactic battle. In fact, I've done so in the past a few times. And if I didn't have a raging headache for reasons unknown to me, I'd do so again.

Of course, the idea of a death by wartime injury assumes that Morrigan did the DR -- the sexy kind that is -- in some other form anyway. And what subsequently transpired is that the Warden happened to suffer a fatal injury in battle. 

That said, I could come up with a way that would preserve the Warden's death -- whoever did the deed against the Archdemon -- whilst simultaneously having Morrigan acquiring an OGB sometime after the climactic battle. In fact, I've done so in the past a few times -- albeit crudely done, due to having suffered a headache. And if I didn't have a raging headache (again) for reasons unknown to me, I'd do so again and give it some real thought.

Seems anytime I'm about to discuss the OGB, I find myself with a headache.  Not in the sense that the former causes the latter, but in the sense that the latter always coincides with the former's appearance on the BSN

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 novembre 2012 - 07:05 .

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Robhuzz wrote...

We got the Witch Hunt DLC. That was probably all we're going to get. Because the existence of the child is not canon (and so far BioWare has denied it being made canon) there's no way to make the child an important part of a future DA game since not everyone will have it in their game.

Never played Witch hunt nor do I plan to so just give us the short version or sum up what happens.

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Silfren wrote...

You're missing my point, TEWR. If the ritual isn't carried out, then whoever kills the archdemon dies. That's the natural, expected state of things, which Riordan makes clear to two, possibly three people. So if Morrigan had found some way to do the DR without the Warden, Alistair, or Loghain, the fact that nobody did die while killing the archdemon would not exactly go unnoticed, and would by no means go unmentioned.

You misunderstood my post, I think.

I'm just trying to argue that it should be recognized how a Warden can die from wartime injuries in a non DR path upon killing the Archdemon. No one's immune to that. Not even a Warden. So the idea that the Warden could only die if he refused the ritual is, realistically, not true. Gameplay wise and according to DG, that's how it is. 

Though DG did seem, by his statements in the past, to not have recognized how soldiers who are injured in battle don't always survive -- as when he first talked about this subject, his statements said simply "If Morrigan could've gotten the OGB, then the Warden wouldn't have died if you refused her!"

I'm not saying a live Warden could be killed under pretense of wartime injuries. I'm saying a non DR Warden who died could easily be said to have died from wartime injuries as opposed to a battle of souls, since there's no real way to distinguish the cause of death between the two.

Like I said, matters of the soul is something that rests outside the purview of mortals, despite how much we argue it. 


That said, I could come up with a way that would preserve the Warden's death -- whoever did the deed against the Archdemon -- whilst simultaneously having Morrigan acquiring an OGB sometime after the climactic battle. In fact, I've done so in the past a few times. And if I didn't have a raging headache for reasons unknown to me, I'd do so again.

Of course, the idea of a death by wartime injury assumes that Morrigan did the DR -- the sexy kind that is -- in some other form anyway. And what subsequently transpired is that the Warden happened to suffer a fatal injury in battle. 

That said, I could come up with a way that would preserve the Warden's death -- whoever did the deed against the Archdemon -- whilst simultaneously having Morrigan acquiring an OGB sometime after the climactic battle. In fact, I've done so in the past a few times -- albeit crudely done, due to having suffered a headache. And if I didn't have a raging headache (again) for reasons unknown to me, I'd do so again and give it some real thought.

Seems anytime I'm about to discuss the OGB, I find myself with a headache.  Not in the sense that the former causes the latter, but in the sense that the latter always coincides with the former's appearance on the BSN

Well, I'm aware that a Warden could die from wartime injuries.  I'm not at all sure why you're arguing that.  Like myself, I'm sure that what Gaider was referring to was the question of whether killing the archdemon was itself a fatal action.  His point, and mine, is that it plainly IS, without the DR, but plainly is NOT fatal with the DR.

Anyway, yes, I'm of course aware that people can die from war injuries, even if they're alive at the end of the final battle.  But I'm talking about the story we HAVE, not potential ones, and the fact is that in the story we do have, very specific parameters were established for the DR. We are told that for it, Morrigan requires a Warden, not long tainted, in order to achieve her aim of being pregnant with the OGB.  It is explicitly pointed out that Riordan is not suitable.  And there are no other Wardens in the vicinity beyond The Warden and Alistair/Loghain. 

I can see easily enough that you could come up with a Gotcha! story about how the Warden killed the Archdemon and died, and the official, assumed story is that this was the expected outcome, given the knowledge among those in the know about the tainted soul connection.  But then we get a future story where HEY!  turns out Morrigan got her OGB after all, and as it happens, the Warden only died because they happened to bleed to death from a severed artery right after the archdemon bit it.  But I maintain that this would be a mistake, retconning the lore to make that kind of soap opera twist.

The idea proposed was that Morrigan maybe could have found some other Warden lurking about, newly Joined and all, or perhaps Morrigan went for Riordan after all.  Or that she could have found some other means to have the OGB AFTER the archdemon was killed.  Neither possibility makes any sense, no matter how hard one squints, in light of the dire circumstances at the end, or the established personalities of the various characters involved.

Both of those scenarios would wreak havoc on the established lore, in ways that make players' upset over Leliana outright laughable.  I mean, there's bad and there's bad and then there's this.  This wouldn't just be screwing with the lore, it'd be cheapening and ruining part of the entire point of being given the DR option in the first place.  I think there'd be a serious enough negative response from fans, that Bioware is aware of, that they'd never go that route.  Not as anything more than an optional, standalone story, which again, however, would still require it not be part of the overall narrative of Thedas.

Modifié par Silfren, 19 novembre 2012 - 03:01 .

[Vilegrim]

I doubt it, I would be surprised if it ever is.

[megamacka]

I hope so.
But not every playthrough had Morrigan have a child to save the Grey warden.
And some playthroughs had him/her stab her in Witch hunt.
Yet.... Look at DA2... All of the people that supposedly '' died '' just came back out of thin air and a lot of lore was just ignored/ changed. So I wouldn't be surprised if they just contradicted all of those things anyway.