300 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

[quote]Zobo wrote...

1). Hawke tells Merrill that his dead mother is with the Maker, the only dialogue alternative a player can choose to that line is to basically shout on Merrill in anger like a total jerk. So Hawke is either a theist, either a scum. Screws my role-play regardless of the choice.[/quote]You can't "roleplay" as a Hawke who's mother was just murdered? 

[quote]2). Hawke tells Feynriel that he hopes the Maker guides him.
Funny thing is, both Merrill and Feynriel subscribe to the elven pantheon of gods, not to the Maker, which makes Hawke's case even worse.[/quote]Refresh my memory because I don't recall Feynriel having any particular religious conviction.  In any case, a dialogue option where Hawke says the rough Thedan equivalent of "via con Dios" is not even close to being a big deal no matter how you look at it.

[quote]Swagger7 wrote...

[quote]General User wrote...

[quote]Filament wrote...

They have different presuppositions in the sense that anecdotal, unfalsifiable, unreproducible evidence qualifies as credible. [/quote]What about history?  It relies heavily on antecdotal evidence to reach conclusions which are very often unfalsifiable about persons and events which are, by nature, unreproducible.  And yet it is (or can be, rather) credible. One could make similar claims about most all the humanities really.[/quote]History and science do not have the same standards of evidence.  Also, a historian worth his/her salt will admit that many historical positions are merely statements about what seems most likely given the evidence that is available.  To a scientist, a claim with that little support would only be a hypothesis.  The things historians argue over are much more mundane and therefore require much less supporting evidence to at least appear plausible than claims of the existence of a diety.  You are equating mountains and mole hills.[/quote]Actually I was making the point that there are fields of knowledge and study besides the "hard" sciences that are perfectly "credible."  Whether they are more "mundane" or not is a matter of opinion.  But you'd have a hard time convincing the statesman seeking to make a decision, or the artist seeking to express truth of that.  "Relevant" and "sublime" would be the words I'd use.

[quote]Swagger7 wrote...

[quote]General User wrote...

[Skepticism and interpretation] just as often lead to devout, even fanatical, religious belief.  That's because there is nothing inherent in having either a skeptical outlook towards any idea or group of ideas or an openness to varying interperetations that would, by needs, lead a person or a society to(wards) atheism.  Nor is skepticism an essential component of atheism itself in any special way.

Atheism in the modern world is the product, outgrowth and result of the interactions between a large number of political, religious, philosophical, technological, and economic events, movements, and theories that simply have not taken place in Thedas.  [/quote]I'm going to call BS on this.  Skepticism by its nature requires rejection of that which cannot be demonstrated by evidence.  If you want to get a good guage of the effects of skepticism on religious belief look at the rolls of the various skeptics' societies.  You will find a significantly reduced ratio of theists there, even though many skeptical societies ban or at least frown upon religion being addressed.  Of the religious members, every one who's ever written anything that's come to my attention has admitted that they do not have the same amount of evidence for their religion as they would demand for other less outlandish claims.  Therefore in order to be both a skeptic and a religious person they have had to avoid applying their skepticism to their religion.  This doesn't sound like something that can "just as often lead to devout, even fanatical, religious belief."[/quote]You seem to be strictly referring to skepticism as a guiding principle in and of itself, but that's not even a fraction of the story.  Looking at things and questioning them is just how the human mind works.  And not only anyone can do it with anything, but (in a free society especially) that's very often how people arrive at or adopt new ideas, any new ideas, religious belief (or the rejection thereof) included.  So if you can't see the connection between casting a skeptical eye towards one idea or philosophy and fanatically adhering to an alternative (often opposite), then... what can I tell you?

And, once again, skepticism is neither unique to atheism nor an essential component of it.  In fact depending on the wider cultural/ideological  context and the brand of atheism in question, skepticism may not even be present at all, or even actively rejected and discouraged. 

[quote]Silfren wrote...

God bless but I hate it when people try to make some snarky non-point by hacking out context.  My irritation is making me butt in.

Yeah, uh, they didn't say "no cultural background," they said "no cultural background FOR BELIEF IN ANY OF THE OTHER SYSTEMS..."  World of difference between what was written and what you're trying to imply they wrote.  It ain't hard--it's asking about someone raised in an Andrastian society who doesn't believe in the Maker but also doesn't have the cultural background to believe in the elven Gods or the Dwarven Stone or anything else.  [/quote]Which is doubtless why Xil was kind enough to clarify.  Since you seem to have missed both her clarification and my answer, I'll repost both.

Ahem...
[quote]General User wrote...

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

I.e. someone who was raised in a basically Andrastian society but didn't believe in the Maker.
[/quote]If they voiced that opinion with a shrug, a joke, or a bit of hedging (which would make them like most of our companions), they would be either non-believers or open-minded.  If they angrily and/or loudly proclaimed that the Maker didn't exist then they would be either an idiot or a lunatic.  If they disagreed with the perceived Chantry's orthodox interpretation of the nature and will of the Maker then they would apparently be none too rare a person at all.  We've seen all of those types such people in the games and had more than a few opportunities to fill those shoes ourselves.

Modifié par General User, 21 novembre 2012 - 01:19 .

[Xilizhra]

Actually I was making the point that there are fields of knowledge and study besides the "hard" sciences that are perfectly "credible." Whether they are more "mundane" or not is a matter of opinion. But you'd have a hard time convincing the statesman seeking to make a decision, or the artist seeking to express truth of that. "Relevant" and "sublime" would be the words I'd use.

Which, for those fields, is fine. But when something as soft as religion starts claiming to know things that are covered by hard science, better than the actual scientists, then we begin to have problems because we have tools being used for the wrong things. Religion can play a role for some, but it's not a reliable way of seeking answers about everything.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 novembre 2012 - 12:57 .

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...

Actually I was making the point that there are fields of knowledge and study besides the "hard" sciences that are perfectly "credible." Whether they are more "mundane" or not is a matter of opinion. But you'd have a hard time convincing the statesman seeking to make a decision, or the artist seeking to express truth of that. "Relevant" and "sublime" would be the words I'd use.

Which, for those fields, is fine. But when something as soft as religion starts claiming to know things that are covered by hard science, better than the actual scientists, then we begin to have problems because we have tools being used for the wrong things. Religion can play a role for some, but it's not a reliable way of seeking answers about everything.

Who said it was?

[Xilizhra]

General User wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Actually I was making the point that there are fields of knowledge and study besides the "hard" sciences that are perfectly "credible." Whether they are more "mundane" or not is a matter of opinion. But you'd have a hard time convincing the statesman seeking to make a decision, or the artist seeking to express truth of that. "Relevant" and "sublime" would be the words I'd use.

Which, for those fields, is fine. But when something as soft as religion starts claiming to know things that are covered by hard science, better than the actual scientists, then we begin to have problems because we have tools being used for the wrong things. Religion can play a role for some, but it's not a reliable way of seeking answers about everything.

Who said it was?

It's been implied by a few others in this thread.

[Zobo]

General User wrote...

Zobo wrote...

1). Hawke tells Merrill that his dead mother is with the Maker, the only dialogue alternative a player can choose to that line is to basically shout on Merrill in anger like a total jerk. So Hawke is either a theist, either a scum. Screws my role-play regardless of the choice.

You can't "roleplay" as a Hawke who's mother was just murdered?

I can't roleplay as an atheistic non-jerk Hawke who's mother was just murdered.

[esper]

Zobo wrote...

General User wrote...

Zobo wrote...

1). Hawke tells Merrill that his dead mother is with the Maker, the only dialogue alternative a player can choose to that line is to basically shout on Merrill in anger like a total jerk. So Hawke is either a theist, either a scum. Screws my role-play regardless of the choice.

You can't "roleplay" as a Hawke who's mother was just murdered?

I can't roleplay as an atheistic non-jerk Hawke who's mother was just murdered.

If your catholic friend just died, the most polite thing to do would be to say 'They are with (their) god', beginning to discuss wherever that god does or does not exist in the middle of the grieving would be jerkish.

[Tootles FTW]

esper wrote...

Zobo wrote...

I can't roleplay as an atheistic non-jerk Hawke who's mother was just murdered.

If your catholic friend just died, the most polite thing to do would be to say 'They are with (their) god', beginning to discuss wherever that god does or does not exist in the middle of the grieving would be jerkish.

I'm an atheist and I went and sat shiva with a Jewish friend for the passing of his mother.  Being there and offering my sincere condolensces is honest and from the heart; I don't need to coddle his feelings with beliefs I don't prescribe to.

Though your argument is apples & oranges in regards to the particular scene being discussed.  We're not consoling anyone in these scenes, Merrill is consoling Hawke and yet Hawke has religious beliefs written into their responses.  We're telling Feynriel "good luck on your journey", essentially, but it's flavored with religious sentimentality.  Why?  It's unnecessary on both occassions.

Modifié par Tootles FTW, 21 novembre 2012 - 02:00 .

[General User]

Zobo wrote...

General User wrote...

Zobo wrote...

1). Hawke tells Merrill that his dead mother is with the Maker, the only dialogue alternative a player can choose to that line is to basically shout on Merrill in anger like a total jerk. So Hawke is either a theist, either a scum. Screws my role-play regardless of the choice.

You can't "roleplay" as a Hawke who's mother was just murdered?

I can't roleplay as an atheistic non-jerk Hawke who's mother was just murdered.

Sure you can!  We'll start by setting the scene.  Your Hawke doesn't believe in and/or revere the Maker and is dating Merrill.  And Leandra was just murdered and died in Hawke's arms that day.  If all that's correct then the role-playing becomes obivious.  Your "atheist" Hawke told Merrill that Leandra was "with the Maker" not because it's what Hawke believed, or what Merrill believed, but because it's what Hawke thought Leandra would have wanted and/or wanted him to say. 

You see, people react to grief (especially a particularly gruesome and recent death) in a huge variety of ways.  And as normal as it might be for a person to lash out and curse the heavens, taking it upon oneself to do and say what they believe the deceased would have wanted of them is also quite common.  You had both options.

[esper]

Tootles FTW wrote...

esper wrote...

Zobo wrote...

I can't roleplay as an atheistic non-jerk Hawke who's mother was just murdered.

If your catholic friend just died, the most polite thing to do would be to say 'They are with (their) god', beginning to discuss wherever that god does or does not exist in the middle of the grieving would be jerkish.

I'm an atheist and I went and sat shiva with a Jewish friend for the passing of his mother.  Being there and offering my sincere condolensces is honest and from the heart; I don't need to coddle his feelings with beliefs I don't prescribe to.

Though your argument is apples & oranges in regards to the particular scene being discussed.  We're not consoling anyone in these scenes, Merrill is consoling Hawke and yet Hawke has religious beliefs written into their responses.  We're telling Feynriel "good luck on your journey", essentially, but it's flavored with religious sentimentality.  Why?  It's unnecessary on both occassions.

Apples and Oranges:huh: If your friend died, you would not be the one in need of comfort?

I think it is jerkish, because it is not respecting the stance of the death person who can no longer argue the point with you.  Hawke saying that is respect for their andrastian mother, who is death.

Modifié par esper, 21 novembre 2012 - 02:04 .

[Zobo]

esper wrote...

Zobo wrote...

General User wrote...

Zobo wrote...

1). Hawke tells Merrill that his dead mother is with the Maker, the only dialogue alternative a player can choose to that line is to basically shout on Merrill in anger like a total jerk. So Hawke is either a theist, either a scum. Screws my role-play regardless of the choice.

You can't "roleplay" as a Hawke who's mother was just murdered?

I can't roleplay as an atheistic non-jerk Hawke who's mother was just murdered.

If your catholic friend just died, the most polite thing to do would be to say 'They are with (their) god', beginning to discuss wherever that god does or does not exist in the middle of the grieving would be jerkish.

I don't think so. I do not welcome hypocrisy no matter the intension. And spreading thoughts you yourself disagree withas a matter of principle only because it's a comforting thing to say is as hypocritical as it gets.

Modifié par Zobo, 21 novembre 2012 - 02:12 .

[Tootles FTW]

@esper - It is apples to oranges because you're saying Hawke should say (insert religious belief) here when consoling someone. Hawke is not consoling someone in these scenes, so it's not even a question on his social etiquette - HE/SHE is being consoled after his/her mother's death. What their dead mother thinks is not of concern, this is Hawke's beliefs. If it were Merrill's mother on the slab than I understand treading delicately if she brings religious ideals into the conversation, but as I said...apples & oranges, this is not the case.

How is it not respecting the deceased person by being present at their wake/funeral? These are typically religious affairs dependent upon the individual, and I don't have to share those beliefs or even acknowledge one way or the other that I agree with them to show my respect for their passing.

Modifié par Tootles FTW, 21 novembre 2012 - 02:15 .

[esper]

Zobo wrote...

esper wrote...

Zobo wrote...

General User wrote...

Zobo wrote...

1). Hawke tells Merrill that his dead mother is with the Maker, the only dialogue alternative a player can choose to that line is to basically shout on Merrill in anger like a total jerk. So Hawke is either a theist, either a scum. Screws my role-play regardless of the choice.

You can't "roleplay" as a Hawke who's mother was just murdered?

I can't roleplay as an atheistic non-jerk Hawke who's mother was just murdered.

If your catholic friend just died, the most polite thing to do would be to say 'They are with (their) god', beginning to discuss wherever that god does or does not exist in the middle of the grieving would be jerkish.

I don't think so. I do not welcome hypocrisy no matter the intension. And spreading thoughts you yourself disagree withas a matter of principle only because it's a comforting thing to say is as hypocritical as it gets.

Sometimes you need to be hypocritical to not come off as an jerk. Which is fine, there are many points in life where I too will rather come off as a jerk and insensetive because I feel they are subjects to which I will not bow. I you If feel so strongly about it, being disrespectfull to Leandra's memory (by dismissing her faith), is an option. The top one was simply being respectfull to her memory or her faith. It doesn't say anything about your Hawke.,

[esper]

Tootles FTW wrote...

@esper - It is apples to oranges because you're saying Hawke should say (insert religious belief) here when consoling someone. Hawke is not consoling someone in these scenes, so it's not even a question on his social etiquette - HE/SHE is being consoled after his/her mother's death. What their dead mother thinks is not of concern, this is Hawke's beliefs. If it were Merrill's mother on the slab than I understand treading delicately if she brings religious ideals into the conversation, but as I said...apples & oranges, this is not the case.

How is it not respecting the deceased person by being present at their wake/funeral? These are typically religious affairs dependent upon the individual, and I don't have to share those beliefs or even acknowledge one way or the other that I agree with them to show my respect for their passing.

I never said Hawke should be consoling someone. When I said friend I automatically assumed that people would figure out that they were the one in grief, apparently that was not clear, which does baffle me a bit, but okay...

If you at there funueral starts questioning the deceased faith in anyway, you are being disrespectfull towards the death person's memory. It is simply not the time for that. You are there to say goodbye, not discuss their life choices. Those discussing are better saved for when the wound is not so raw.

[Tootles FTW]

Crap, just deleted my entry.  Un momento.

Modifié par Tootles FTW, 21 novembre 2012 - 02:31 .

[esper]

@Tootles FTW, I think your quotes went wrong.

[Tootles FTW]

esper wrote...

I never said Hawke should be consoling someone. When I said friend I automatically assumed that people would figure out that they were the one in grief, apparently that was not clear, which does baffle me a bit, but okay...

If you at there funueral starts questioning the deceased faith in anyway, you are being disrespectfull towards the death person's memory. It is simply not the time for that. You are there to say goodbye, not discuss their life choices. Those discussing are better saved for when the wound is not so raw.

You said: "If your catholic friend just died, the most polite thing to do would be to say 'They are with (their) god', beginning to discuss wherever that god does or does not exist in the middle of the grieving would be jerkish."

Then who are we speaking to, the ether?  When you tell us that politeness demands we say certain things, I assumed it was for the benefit of someone hearing us. 

As to your second argument, now you're just strawman-ing.  No where did anyone say or imply that if you do not share the religious beliefs of others you must or will start proselytizing to the contrary...especially when said individual is lying in a casket.  Just because I do not share the beliefs of some friends or family does not mean I can't include myself in their happy occassions (Christmas parties, for example) or be there for the sad (funerals).

[esper]

Tootles FTW wrote...

esper wrote...

I never said Hawke should be consoling someone. When I said friend I automatically assumed that people would figure out that they were the one in grief, apparently that was not clear, which does baffle me a bit, but okay...

If you at there funueral starts questioning the deceased faith in anyway, you are being disrespectfull towards the death person's memory. It is simply not the time for that. You are there to say goodbye, not discuss their life choices. Those discussing are better saved for when the wound is not so raw.

You said: "If your catholic friend just died, the most polite thing to do would be to say 'They are with (their) god', beginning to discuss wherever that god does or does not exist in the middle of the grieving would be jerkish."

Then who are we speaking to, the ether?  When you tell us that politeness demands we say certain things, I assumed it was for the benefit of someone hearing us. 

As to your second argument, now you're just strawman-ing.  No where did anyone say or imply that if you do not share the religious beliefs of others you must or will start proselytizing to the contrary...especially when said individual is lying in a casket.  Just because I do not share the beliefs of some friends or family does not mean I can't include myself in their happy occassions (Christmas parties, for example) or be there for the sad (funerals).

Which is exaclt what Hawke does. Say that Leandra is with the god, Leandra believe in. We are saying it for the benefit of whoever we are talking too, and saying it in respect for the deceased memory in mind. I am not saying that other polite variants doesn't exist such as 'I hope she is at peace', or that those couldn't have be included in the game. But the game doesn't force you to choose between believing and jerk. It forced you to choose between various statements, the reason for why Hawke says them left up to head canon and outright denying the Maker in that situation would have been rude towards Leandra's memory.


No, I am not. I have never said that an atheist must express anti god speeched at a sorrowfull occassion. But if you start to do it, then it is disrespectfull.

[Zobo]

esper wrote...

Zobo wrote...

esper wrote...

Zobo wrote...

General User wrote...

Zobo wrote...

1). Hawke tells Merrill that his dead mother is with the Maker, the only dialogue alternative a player can choose to that line is to basically shout on Merrill in anger like a total jerk. So Hawke is either a theist, either a scum. Screws my role-play regardless of the choice.

You can't "roleplay" as a Hawke who's mother was just murdered?

I can't roleplay as an atheistic non-jerk Hawke who's mother was just murdered.

If your catholic friend just died, the most polite thing to do would be to say 'They are with (their) god', beginning to discuss wherever that god does or does not exist in the middle of the grieving would be jerkish.

I don't think so. I do not welcome hypocrisy no matter the intension. And spreading thoughts you yourself disagree withas a matter of principle only because it's a comforting thing to say is as hypocritical as it gets.

Sometimes you need to be hypocritical to not come off as an jerk. Which is fine, there are many points in life where I too will rather come off as a jerk and insensetive because I feel they are subjects to which I will not bow. I you If feel so strongly about it, being disrespectfull to Leandra's memory (by dismissing her faith), is an option. The top one was simply being respectfull to her memory or her faith. It doesn't say anything about your Hawke.

To be respectful I gladly agree to shut up about my atheistic views while someone else talks religion on funerals and similar occasions. No problem with that.
But to actively speak religion myself in this situation is a huge no. It goes against everything I am, I would just lose all respect for myself should I do this.

[Tootles FTW]

esper wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

You said: "If your catholic friend just died, the most polite thing to do would be to say 'They are with (their) god', beginning to discuss wherever that god does or does not exist in the middle of the grieving would be jerkish."

Then who are we speaking to, the ether?  When you tell us that politeness demands we say certain things, I assumed it was for the benefit of someone hearing us. 

As to your second argument, now you're just strawman-ing.  No where did anyone say or imply that if you do not share the religious beliefs of others you must or will start proselytizing to the contrary...especially when said individual is lying in a casket.  Just because I do not share the beliefs of some friends or family does not mean I can't include myself in their happy occassions (Christmas parties, for example) or be there for the sad (funerals).

Which is exaclt what Hawke does. Say that Leandra is with the god, Leandra believe in. We are saying it for the benefit of whoever we are talking too, and saying it in respect for the deceased memory in mind. I am not saying that other polite variants doesn't exist such as 'I hope she is at peace', or that those couldn't have be included in the game. But the game doesn't force you to choose between believing and jerk. It forced you to choose between various statements, the reason for why Hawke says them left up to head canon and outright denying the Maker in that situation would have been rude towards Leandra's memory.


No, I am not. I have never said that an atheist must express anti god speeched at a sorrowfull occassion. But if you start to do it, then it is disrespectfull.

Yes, but then saying that Leandra is with the Maker is for what...Merrill's benefit?  To comfort her in thinking that Leandra is snuggling up with some heavenly figure that Merrill certainly doesn't believe in?  I'm sorry, but I don't see how stating something that both my Hawke and Merrill don't believe in respects my mother's memory in any way when she is, in fact, 1) dead and 2) not even in the room.

If it were a matter of a line being said while Leandra was dying in your arms then I completely get that.  Your mother is bleeding out and your Hawke is forced (via the scripted dialogue) to console her with the knowledge that she is going to the Maker...I get it.  I wouldn't even complain, because I'm sure in that situation I would have the compassion to give my own friend/family member the same reassurance.  But speaking with Merrill after-the-fact in regards to your mother does not make sense to me if I so choose to RP a Hawke that doesn't share those beliefs.

Modifié par Tootles FTW, 21 novembre 2012 - 03:17 .

[esper]

Zobo wrote...

esper wrote...

Zobo wrote...

esper wrote...

Zobo wrote...

General User wrote...

Zobo wrote...

1). Hawke tells Merrill that his dead mother is with the Maker, the only dialogue alternative a player can choose to that line is to basically shout on Merrill in anger like a total jerk. So Hawke is either a theist, either a scum. Screws my role-play regardless of the choice.

You can't "roleplay" as a Hawke who's mother was just murdered?

I can't roleplay as an atheistic non-jerk Hawke who's mother was just murdered.

If your catholic friend just died, the most polite thing to do would be to say 'They are with (their) god', beginning to discuss wherever that god does or does not exist in the middle of the grieving would be jerkish.

I don't think so. I do not welcome hypocrisy no matter the intension. And spreading thoughts you yourself disagree withas a matter of principle only because it's a comforting thing to say is as hypocritical as it gets.

Sometimes you need to be hypocritical to not come off as an jerk. Which is fine, there are many points in life where I too will rather come off as a jerk and insensetive because I feel they are subjects to which I will not bow. I you If feel so strongly about it, being disrespectfull to Leandra's memory (by dismissing her faith), is an option. The top one was simply being respectfull to her memory or her faith. It doesn't say anything about your Hawke.

To be respectful I gladly agree to shut up about my atheistic views while someone else talks religion on funerals and similar occasions. No problem with that.
But to actively speak religion myself in this situation is a huge no. It goes against everything I am, I would just lose all respect for myself should I do this.

Then there are two/htree other options to choose from.

I can understand why you would have wanted a 'At least nothing can hurt her anymore' option (Or something like that). But a game simply can't offer every option in the book because it is by its nature an as an non-believing Hawke you simply have the option of respecting Leandra's memory over you, lash out, or ask to be left alone. All three options are still avaible to you. (Also rember Hawke is not you.)

[esper]

Tootles FTW wrote...

esper wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

You said: "If your catholic friend just died, the most polite thing to do would be to say 'They are with (their) god', beginning to discuss wherever that god does or does not exist in the middle of the grieving would be jerkish."

Then who are we speaking to, the ether?  When you tell us that politeness demands we say certain things, I assumed it was for the benefit of someone hearing us. 

As to your second argument, now you're just strawman-ing.  No where did anyone say or imply that if you do not share the religious beliefs of others you must or will start proselytizing to the contrary...especially when said individual is lying in a casket.  Just because I do not share the beliefs of some friends or family does not mean I can't include myself in their happy occassions (Christmas parties, for example) or be there for the sad (funerals).

Which is exaclt what Hawke does. Say that Leandra is with the god, Leandra believe in. We are saying it for the benefit of whoever we are talking too, and saying it in respect for the deceased memory in mind. I am not saying that other polite variants doesn't exist such as 'I hope she is at peace', or that those couldn't have be included in the game. But the game doesn't force you to choose between believing and jerk. It forced you to choose between various statements, the reason for why Hawke says them left up to head canon and outright denying the Maker in that situation would have been rude towards Leandra's memory.


No, I am not. I have never said that an atheist must express anti god speeched at a sorrowfull occassion. But if you start to do it, then it is disrespectfull.

Yes, but then saying that Leandra is with the Maker is for what...Merrill's benefit?  To comfort her in thinking that Leandra is snuggling up with some heavenly figure that Merrill certainly doesn't believe in?  I'm sorry, but I don't see how stating something that both my Hawke and Merrill don't believe in respects my mother's memory in any way when she is, in fact, 1) dead and 2) not even in the room.

If it were a matter of a line being said while Leandra was dying in your arms then I completely get that.  Your mother is bleeding out and your Hawke is forced (via the scripted dialogue) to console her with the knowledge that she is going to the Maker...I get it.  I wouldn't even complain, because I'm sure in that situation I would have the compassion to give my own friend/family member the same reassurance.  But speaking with Merrill after-the-fact in regards to your mother does not make sense to me if I so choose to RP a Hawke that doesn't share those beliefs.

No, It is in respect off Leandra's memory. You are currently grieving over her and you know that is where Leandra would like to be so you a 'the benefit of a ghost/memory' so to speak. It is respecting her memory.
.
 

[Tootles FTW]

@esper - We're just going to have to disagree on this, because I don't see how an unprompted declaration on something I don't believe in to an equally non-believing party is anything but insincere and hypocritical. An "Eh, she's with her Santa Claus now".

If I told my sister that our Catholic father "is with Jesus" following his death we'd probably both burst out laughing. I would still give him his Catholic funeral and respect his beliefs, but that doesn't mean I have to make declarations that are untrue to myself.

I don't care how much someone I love thinks my blue sweater is actually pink, I'm not calling it pink. Why would I wait for them to leave the room so I can be alone with a likewise non-colorblind person to then suddenly state that it's pink?

[Zerker]

As an atheist, I like playing faithful characters in role playing games. Even when I have the option to state my belief, I usually choose to align myself with a religion.

Well I can't shoot fireballs or cut monsters in half with my giant axe in real life, so why not try something different about philosophy too? I'm bored with my real self, playing me all day everyday, when I have the chance to be something marginally different why not take it? Playing a character who believes in the maker and prays to him makes me feel like acting, choosing a role to play and trying to stay faithful to my role, which is quite fun in a video game or tabletop frp.

Modifié par Maddok900, 21 novembre 2012 - 03:37 .

[Zobo]

Maddok900 wrote...

As an atheist, I like playing faithful characters in role playing games. Even when I have the option to state my belief, I usually choose to align myself with a religion.

Well I can't shoot fireballs or cut monsters in half with my giant axe in real life, so why not try something different about philosophy too? I'm bored with my real self, playing me all day everyday, when I have the chance to be something marginally different why not take it? Playing a character who believes in the maker and prays to him makes me feel like acting, choosing a role to play and trying to stay faithful to my role, which is quite fun in a video game or tabletop frp.

Roleplaying as an idealized version of yourself vs. roleplaying as some other person you've invented is a rather popular topic on this forums, also it goes far beyond the faith aspect of a character, also there is no universal answer to it: some people prefer the first way of roleplaying, some people prefer the second, some like both. I personally subscribe to the first recipe.

[Zerker]

Zobo wrote...

Maddok900 wrote...

As an atheist, I like playing faithful characters in role playing games. Even when I have the option to state my belief, I usually choose to align myself with a religion.

Well I can't shoot fireballs or cut monsters in half with my giant axe in real life, so why not try something different about philosophy too? I'm bored with my real self, playing me all day everyday, when I have the chance to be something marginally different why not take it? Playing a character who believes in the maker and prays to him makes me feel like acting, choosing a role to play and trying to stay faithful to my role, which is quite fun in a video game or tabletop frp.

Roleplaying as an idealized version of yourself vs. roleplaying as some other person you've invented is a rather popular topic on this forums, also it goes far beyond the faith aspect of a character, also there is no universal answer to it: some people prefer the first way of roleplaying, some people prefer the second, some like both. I personally subscribe to the first recipe.

I understand, though I find "playing an enhanced version of yourself who can breathe fire" theme very boring actually.