300 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Is Morrigan really an atheist? Yeah she denied the afterlife but she believes in the old gods, unless she doesn't believe them to be literal gods as the Tevinter Imperium worshiped them.

Also inb4lockdown.

In Xil's thread, Gaider said that Morrigan is not an atheist as we use the term.

He didn't elaborate, but he did say that.

Well Morrigan states outright that she doesn't believe in any higher power, but that doesn't necessarily make her an atheist.

Technically speaking, agnostics don't believe either, they're waiting for confirmation one way or the other.

But Morrigan might just be trolling Leliana.

[esper]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Magic, demons and ghosts are not intrinsically supernatural, so there's really no reason why there shouldn't be materialistic philosophies in Thedas.

Sadly, it seems there is no such thing as an intelligent person in Theads. Given the lack of philosophers and mathematicians in general, a lack of atheism is not suprising.

I hope we'll see some evidence of people like Plato and Democritus in the next game.

Edit:

esper wrote...
But as an agnostic, I do admit that yes, that to is a belief. It is the belief that it is impossible to know. 

You do realize that knowledge is a subset of belief?

I am not sure what you mean, as subset doesn't really make sense for me in this context, but I am guessing you mean one of two things:

All knowlegde is just another form of belief (relativism)

Or that belief is in part also based of what we know.

[Lennard Testarossa]

EntropicAngel wrote...
You sure did.

...did you even read that?
What it says there is that there do not seem to be any philosophers/mathematicians in Thedas, so not having atheism/materialism as one example of a philosophical worldview is not surprising. That does not mean that all philosophers are atheists.

Modifié par Lennard Testarossa, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:01 .

[esper]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Well Morrigan states outright that she doesn't believe in any higher power, but that doesn't necessarily make her an atheist.

Technically speaking, agnostics don't believe either, they're waiting for confirmation one way or the other.

But Morrigan might just be trolling Leliana.

It does seem like she trolls a lot.

Yep, a that is a possibility. We can say that the sentence she expressed is a sign of either Atheisme, Agnostisme or that Morrigan doesn't like Leliana.

[Lennard Testarossa]

EntropicAngel wrote...
I thought you meant "in threads."

I apologize.

Oops, I didn't realize I misspelled that.

esper wrote...
All knowlegde is just another form of belief (relativism)

Knowledge is strong belief substantiated by a lot of evidence. I know the the earth revolves around the sun. I also believe the earth revolves around the sun.

Faith is strong belief unsubstantiated by evidence.

Modifié par Lennard Testarossa, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:13 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Short answer: No

Long answer: In Mass Effect Yes, in Dragon Age No.

* Something to add: There is so many evidences in Dragon Age: Origins that the maker and other gods had/have existed. Good and Evil gods ... ignoring this conclusion is very idiotic even by Dragon Age standards!

[Zobo]

Ophir147 wrote...

Our atheists have a foundation of belief made of hundreds of years of curiosity and experimentation, which, at its very roots, was created by the religious searching for anwers. A notable example includes my superhero Isaac Newton, who was a devout orthodox christian. As more and more was discovered about the inner workings of the world--what we intially thought was the magic work of an omniscient space god--we no longer had to rely on mythology in order to explain everything that goes on around us.

In Thedas, of course, there has been no scientific revolution, no genesis of logic, and unless something is going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, it won't be happening for a while.

Please, check up for example Diagoras of Melos also known as Diagoras "the Atheist". The guy lived 2500 years ago, long, long before most of the scientific discoveries kicked in. It never stopped him and those alike to reach their conclusions. So what you are trying to say is not entirely true.

[Xilizhra]

Legatus Arianus wrote...

Short answer: No

Long answer: In Mass Effect Yes, in Dragon Age No.

* Something to add: There is so many evidences in Dragon Age: Origins that the maker and other gods had/have existed. Good and Evil gods ... ignoring this conclusion is very idiotic even by Dragon Age standards!

There's no conclusive evidence whatsoever that the Maker existed.

[esper]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...
I thought you meant "in threads."

I apologize.

Oops, I didn't realize I misspelled that.

esper wrote...
All knowlegde is just another form of belief (relativism)

Knowledge is strong belief substantiated by a lot of evidence. I know the the earth revolves around the sun. I also believe the earth revolves around the sun.

Faith is strong belief unsubstantiated by evidence.

Okay, so you subscribe to that school. It is a school of thougths, I don't really know how to feel about me self personally. However, I can agree with your distinction between faith and belief.

[The Elder King]

Legatus Arianus wrote...


* Something to add: There is so many evidences in Dragon Age: Origins that the maker and other gods had/have existed. Good and Evil gods ... ignoring this conclusion is very idiotic even by Dragon Age standards!

There are evidence that what Tevinter (and Thedas) refers to Old Gods (Dumat and the others) exist (or existed, in the case of the dead Archdeemons). We have no evidence that the "Old Gods" are really gods, more powerful dragons or normal dragons.
And as far as I remember, there are no evidence that the Maker exists or have existed.

Modifié par hhh89, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:25 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Xilizhra wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ophir147 wrote...

If your atheism has no basis in science, then how is that any different from religion accepted from blind faith?

Also, I changed my first post because it seemed to be confusing my point too much.

The point is that "atheism" isn't a thing; it's the lack of a thing, namely the lack of belief in a higher power. Atheism has no basis because atheism needs no basis; it's theism that needs one.

Atheism is a belief in no higher power.

It requires faith just like religions do.

The real middle party here are the skeptics who say "I don't know."

 by esper.

That's antitheism. It's a common misconception. Those who say "I don't know" are themselves atheists, merely "weak" agnostic ones.

I call this comment BS!

....

OK everyone hasn't been smart enough to understand that BIOWARE is the real MAKER of Thedas!

Now Being Atheist in Dragon Age Universe or any universe is absurd. 

[The Hierophant]

I wonder how many people will rage or cut themselves if the Maker is introduced in a later game?

[alex90c]

None. They'll get over it and carry on playing.

This is BSN, people will only care if they don't get to have sex with everyone.

[Rinji the Bearded]

EntropicAngel wrote...

alex90c wrote...

None. They'll get over it and carry on playing.

This is BSN, people will only care if they don't get to have sex with everyone.

You may not have heard of ME3...

People are very sensitive around here.

Sensitive, and usually about the absolutely wrong things, too. 

[Auintus]

Legatus Arianus wrote...

OK everyone hasn't been smart enough to understand that BIOWARE is the real MAKER of Thedas!

Now Being Atheist in Dragon Age Universe or any universe is absurd. 

...We're characters in a video game?

That...actually makes a lot of sense.

[Auintus]

Legatus Arianus wrote...

Short answer: No

Long answer: In Mass Effect Yes, in Dragon Age No.

* Something to add: There is so many evidences in Dragon Age: Origins that the maker and other gods had/have existed. Good and Evil gods ... ignoring this conclusion is very idiotic even by Dragon Age standards!

Sure we can. Gaider said so.
Besides, "atheist" as far as this thread is concerned means "One who does not follow the Maker and the word of the Chantry." The Old Gods are a completely different card. And there is no definitive evidence of the Maker.

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Auintus wrote...

Sure we can. Gaider said so.
Besides, "atheist" as far as this thread is concerned means "One who does not follow the Maker and the word of the Chantry." The Old Gods are a completely different card. And there is no definitive evidence of the Maker.

The heck?

You are literally, completely wrong. Gaider said you CANNOT be an atheist. You can express doubt, but you cannot be a traditional atheist.

And, "as far as this thread is concerned--" no. Words have definitions. You can't simply change the meaning of the word because you want to.

To be frank, all I cared about was the option to not believe in the Maker. I'm fine with believing in the Creators/Old Gods/etc. if I happen to do so.

[Auintus]

EntropicAngel wrote...

The heck?

You are literally, completely wrong. Gaider said you CANNOT be an atheist. You can express doubt, but you cannot be a traditional atheist.

And, "as far as this thread is concerned--" no. Words have definitions. You can't simply change the meaning of the word because you want to.

You can express doubt. That is an atheist. What "traditional" definition am I missing?

The word atheist would differ from the traditional sense than it would in Thedas. One can choose not to believe in the Maker, but the Old Gods have been corrupted into archdemons and torn the world apart. You really can't ignore something like that. So "atheist," in this context, refers to belief in the Maker. Therein lies the difference.
Off-topic, words are random collections of sounds that only have meaning because we give them meaning. And words are defined by other words. So definitions are really just pretty little things that serve as a rough draft of sorts. Personal use differs.

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

To be frank, all I cared about was the option to not believe in the Maker. I'm fine with believing in the Creators/Old Gods/etc. if I happen to do so.

I don't have a problem with that.

It just seems like from what you're saying, you're trying to purposely not believe in the Maker, not just express an atheistic view.

If I had to guess I'd say this is based on how intrinsically the Chantry is tied with "The Maker," but I really don't know and it really isn't my business.

True. I find the Andrastian religion to be repellant and I don't want my character to have anything to do with it.