393 réponses à ce sujet

[Brovikk Rasputin]

ld1449 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

The ending after the EC is nowhere near bad. Don't see what all the fuss is about.

You would perhaps have better luck if you proceeded to remove your cranium from your cloaca. Just a suggestion.

You sure do enjoy following me around this place, trying to come up with lamer and lamer insults with each post.

But hey, if it makes you happy, I'm happy.

[Massa FX]

@arial I like your ending. Makes sense. Like a Kobayashi Maru test from Star Trek.

Interesting....

Note to any Bioware emplyee:  This no win scenario ending is old school. But effective. I would have been just fine without the lesson. Thanks anyway.

Modifié par Massa FX, 19 novembre 2012 - 11:24 .

[Clayless]

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

So lets be clear on what an opinion is, lets break this down slowly:

At the end it's revealed that nothing in the series happened.

Does this make everything you did in the 3 games pointless, yes or no?

-snip-

That was beautiful, but can you answer the question I asked, rather than giving an analogy that doesn't fit?

Ask someone to doodle you a map because you clearly can't read.

As I said "If you STILL don't get it. Then we're done here."

You're jumping through hoops to try and avoid answering, do you want an easier way to answer that doesn't involve having to doodle maps or create hypotheticals that don't relate?

Say yes or no.

[KingZayd]

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

So EAWare deliberately released game without ending. Game which they advertised as final chapter of the trilogy.
Lol
And that is why IT making no sense not only in-universe, but also in real world.

P.S. Bad Writing Theory is only theory with evidence - compared to various IT theories, which makes completely no sense from real world pov, and no sense in-universe.

Well clearly it's not the final chapter. They are releasing ME4 aren't they?

And you have given no reason for the IT making no sense in universe.

1. Trilogy was about Shepard and reapers. And it is ended. Or they should be charged with false advertising?
2. One simple reason - why reapers bother with "glorious battle of minds" when they already won?
I'm not even saying, for now, that entire ME3 story is utter nonsense.

Also, out-of-universe reasons is enough already. ITers basically saying, that EAWare deliberately released incomplete game, destroyed their former fanbase, greatly damaged their reputation - and all for "art".
You can't be serious.

Also interested, how day 1 dlc, which was cut from the game, fits that "artistic integrity".

1. It's over now then. Now it's Not Shepard and the Reapers.
2. They haven't already won.

You're the one that mentioned in-universe reasons. They released the complete game. It just ends on a cliffhanger. Games do that sometimes. This could be quite conceivably intentional. 

As for destroying their former fanbase and ruining their reputation: "Oops".  Obviously they didn't intend that part.

Also, I'm not sure why you decided to include the day 1 dlc thing. I'm not defending Bioware's practices.

1. Words-play? Fine. I don't care if they will be charged or not, i'm done with them.

2. But they are. They already took Citadel, they can not be stopped by fleets. They just allowed Crucible to dock, and Shepard to get to the Citadel(you know, they could just turn the beam off(which they doing in cutscenes btw), or Harbringer could just one-shot entire offensive with his main gun). Because they wanted to lose to Shepard in "great battle of minds" for some idiotic reason.

So, they could turn the relays off, they could turn off the beam, they could just annihilate entire retarded offensive - but they decided to lose in "great battle of minds".
That making a lot of sense...
Not. It is nonsense.

So, IT is makes no sense in-universe. And also makes no sense out-of-universe, especially given EAWare despicable business practices.

You're the one that mentioned in-universe reasons. They released the
complete game. It just ends on a cliffhanger. Games do that sometimes.
This could be quite conceivably intentional. 

And this is false. ME3 have 3 endings(4 with EC).
If you don't like endings, it doesn't mean that they are not real. That could mean a lot of things, like you simple not liking story direction, endings are too bleak, or plain bad writing(endings makes no sense and breaking lore).

So, you saying ME3 have no ending, because everything in the ending is a dream. But somehow, at the same time, you consider "breathing scene" a cliffhanger, and not a dream.
Riiiiight. How plausible.

Basically, to make your headcanon work, you just declaring parts of game you don't like being a dream.

As for destroying their former fanbase and ruining their reputation: "Oops".  Obviously they didn't intend that part.

Simple explanation 1 - they changed their target audience, and decided that their new target audience requires no effort, they will swallow everything. They miscalculated(got some new players, but lost core fanbase).
Simple explanation 2 - they lost connection to their core fanbase, and decided that their core fanbase will swallow everything. They miscalculated(lost said core fanbase).
Pick either, or both.

Difference between ITers and, for example retakers(or writeoffers), that ITers blame fanbase for EAWare failures, and others blame EAWare for EAWare failures.

Also, I'm not sure why you decided to include the day 1 dlc thing. I'm not defending Bioware's practices.

It is directly tied to IT being nonsense from real life point of view. Some greedy company, which goal is only money, to the point they cut content from complete game to sell separately - suddenly releasing "artsy" ending for the sake of "art" - it makes completely no sense.

2. Clearly they wanted Shepard to come up. Probably because they wanted Shepard for some reason.  IT makes sense both in and out universe. As I have shown.

I'm saying ME3 has an ending. It ends on a a cliffhanger. Only the things that cannot possibly be real in-universe have been ruled out as unreal. And that conveniently happens after Harbinger knocks Shepard out. 

Simple Explanation 3- They thought people would be satisfied with the "fake ending" they supplied, then be amazed when the indoctrination reveal was made. They miscalculated.

When I was an ITer I never blamed the fanbase. I blamed Bioware for making the "fake endings" so bad that people couldn't accept them and be happy.

The same moneygrabbing company might be tempted to cut their twist reveal fromt he game and sell it separtely. For the sake of art and money. It makes sense.

[KingZayd]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

So lets be clear on what an opinion is, lets break this down slowly:

At the end it's revealed that nothing in the series happened.

Does this make everything you did in the 3 games pointless, yes or no?

-snip-

That was beautiful, but can you answer the question I asked, rather than giving an analogy that doesn't fit?

Ask someone to doodle you a map because you clearly can't read.

As I said "If you STILL don't get it. Then we're done here."

You're jumping through hoops to try and avoid answering, do you want an easier way to answer that doesn't involve having to doodle maps or create hypotheticals that don't relate?

Say yes or no.

He already said no.

[Dr_Extrem]

Yesmar wrote...

I'm actually finished with Maxster_.
I don't disregard stuff I don't like, EC did not provide anything to render IT as not being a valid theory.
To best honest I think IT is not going to be the what really happened, instead I will headcanon Indoctrination as a possible reason for a terrible story.

I hate being bored by the same points again and again, they were answered on the last page.
If you choose to accept them or not is your problem, ignorance is bliss.

that is another problem with the endings. many are forced to create some sort of headcanon, that makes the endings bearable.

some people go with it, pt and i i.e. go with mehem. we are in fact desperate enough, to construct theories or actually mod the endings to achieve some kind of satisfaction. satisfaction not given (to many people) after playing the series for countless hours.

you only have to do such things, if the actual endings do not give you, what you need.
i i.e., have a strong sense of justice and i find it hardly bearable, that shepard is left for dead without getting something back from the universe, he/she just saved - again. could be a ying/yang thing . i  dont know.


personal note.

i do not disregard the ending choices as a whole - but they were badly implemented, feel mostly inconsistent and are in fact highly questionalble in their outcome. in addition, there is not even the possibility to get a relatively nice ending - something a lot of people need and wanted. if people would write of such an ending as disney or too bright, - well they would not have to choose it. on the other hand, everybody who wanted stuff like that, is stuck with the endings, as they are now.

[Maxster_]

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

1. Err... What?
2. 0/10.

You said that there is two ways to disprove the IT :
1. ME3 having an Epilogue.
...
So, IT can not be disproven. ...

2.By releasing ME4 which disproves the IT

If ME3 is the end of Shepard story, and reapers are not defeated - what was the point of IT?

 
1. "False,  There are films with endings that didn't really happen, or where it is hinted the ending didn't really happen. They do not include a "real ending", nor do they have to."
2. I didn't say anything about ME3 having an epilogue disproving IT. I said IT can be disproved in two ways:
a) Bioware saying it's just fanfiction
ME4 in a post-synthesis universe, or something like that.
IT can be disproven, therefore it is a theory.

1. So, you are saying that ME3 have no ending, and was false advertised?
2. Yes, sorry, wrong opponent. Damn, that was a miss on my part
a) This will never happen, EAWare will not alienate last remnants of their former fanbase.
Ok, fine.
So, IT can be disproved only by making ME4 in post-synthesis universe.
Well, i agree then, IT is a theory(not plausible but still).

And now i'm interested - what will prove the IT then?

Also, some simple question - if ME3 was an end to Shepard's story, but reapers threat is still there - what was the point of IT(great battle of minds, which lead to completely nothing, and was never actually needed?)?

1. No. I'm not. ME3 has an ending. The ending of Shepard's story. He got indoctrinated. Oops.

2)
a) So it can be disproven, they just don't want to.
but its okay since you've now agreed IT is is a theory

What would prove IT? Us seeing indoctrinated Shepard in ME4, or indeed seeing that the stuff Shepard saw happen, didn't happen.

The point of IT? Not a great battle of minds. Shepard's indoctrinated. Oops. Perhaps the decision made will affect the degree of indoctrination, maybe it won't. Maybe whichever choice he made, we'll still have to put a bullet in his brain.

1. Ok. Reapers have the Citadel, they control relay network, and decimated all allied fleets. And you also said that reapers threat is not dealt with in ME3.
So, everyone is dead. Ok.
2.
i agreed with your interpretation of IT being a theory. Implausible, unproven, in constrast with Bad Writing Theory, but, - evidence of numerous bad writing in ME3 can not disprove the IT, which is based on obviously false assumption of brilliance of EAWare's writing.
Their writing was crappy throughout ME2 and ME3, and then, suddenly, becomes brilliant in endings.
Sure
Actually, Bad Writing Theory would be enough to disprove the IT, but i'll drop that for now.

What would prove IT? Us seeing indoctrinated Shepard in ME4, or indeed seeing that the stuff Shepard saw happen, didn't happen.

If you said that this proof would be ending DLC, i would tear you apart
Oops, i already did that. You just declaring anything you don't like a dream, but somehow, "breath scene" you considering real.
If facts disproves the theory - to hell with facts

The
point of IT? Not a great battle of minds. Shepard's indoctrinated.
Oops. Perhaps the decision made will affect the degree of
indoctrination, maybe it won't. Maybe whichever choice he made, we'll
still have to put a bullet in his brain.

So, the real ending then:
Reapers crushed everyone, then indoctrinated Shepard just for lulz. They already won, they could just kill Shepard many times or let him die, and he is just a simple special forces soldier, with no fleet commanding experience(meaning he is insignificant to even bother with indoctrinating) - but they decided to have some fun.

So, at the end of ME3 - we have no fleets, no ground troops(well they useless anyway), and reapers still a threat.
Congratulations, you just outdone EAWare with bleak, hopeless and nonsensical writing.

[Massa FX]

Note to posters: if you've carried an argument for more than one page, step away from your keyboard. Your opinion was heard in your first post. Seek help if you've argued for two or more pages.

[Maxster_]

Yesmar wrote...

I'm actually finished with Maxster_.
I don't disregard stuff I don't like, EC did not provide anything to render IT as not being a valid theory.
To best honest I think IT is not going to be the what really happened, instead I will headcanon Indoctrination as a possible reason for a terrible story.

I hate being bored by the same points again and again, they were answered on the last page.
If you choose to accept them or not is your problem, ignorance is bliss.

Headcanon is fanfiction.
ITers, for unknown(well known actually) reasons, decided that "breath scene" is real, and Catalyst scene and epilogues are not.
Which is funny.

[KingZayd]

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

1. Err... What?
2. 0/10.

You said that there is two ways to disprove the IT :
1. ME3 having an Epilogue.
...
So, IT can not be disproven. ...

2.By releasing ME4 which disproves the IT

If ME3 is the end of Shepard story, and reapers are not defeated - what was the point of IT?

 
1. "False,  There are films with endings that didn't really happen, or where it is hinted the ending didn't really happen. They do not include a "real ending", nor do they have to."
2. I didn't say anything about ME3 having an epilogue disproving IT. I said IT can be disproved in two ways:
a) Bioware saying it's just fanfiction
ME4 in a post-synthesis universe, or something like that.
IT can be disproven, therefore it is a theory.

1. So, you are saying that ME3 have no ending, and was false advertised?
2. Yes, sorry, wrong opponent. Damn, that was a miss on my part
a) This will never happen, EAWare will not alienate last remnants of their former fanbase.
Ok, fine.
So, IT can be disproved only by making ME4 in post-synthesis universe.
Well, i agree then, IT is a theory(not plausible but still).

And now i'm interested - what will prove the IT then?

Also, some simple question - if ME3 was an end to Shepard's story, but reapers threat is still there - what was the point of IT(great battle of minds, which lead to completely nothing, and was never actually needed?)?

1. No. I'm not. ME3 has an ending. The ending of Shepard's story. He got indoctrinated. Oops.

2)
a) So it can be disproven, they just don't want to.
but its okay since you've now agreed IT is is a theory

What would prove IT? Us seeing indoctrinated Shepard in ME4, or indeed seeing that the stuff Shepard saw happen, didn't happen.

The point of IT? Not a great battle of minds. Shepard's indoctrinated. Oops. Perhaps the decision made will affect the degree of indoctrination, maybe it won't. Maybe whichever choice he made, we'll still have to put a bullet in his brain.

1. Ok. Reapers have the Citadel, they control relay network, and decimated all allied fleets. And you also said that reapers threat is not dealt with in ME3.
So, everyone is dead. Ok.
2.
i agreed with your interpretation of IT being a theory. Implausible, unproven, in constrast with Bad Writing Theory, but, - evidence of numerous bad writing in ME3 can not disprove the IT, which is based on obviously false assumption of brilliance of EAWare's writing.
Their writing was crappy throughout ME2 and ME3, and then, suddenly, becomes brilliant in endings.
Sure
Actually, Bad Writing Theory would be enough to disprove the IT, but i'll drop that for now.

What would prove IT? Us seeing indoctrinated Shepard in ME4, or indeed seeing that the stuff Shepard saw happen, didn't happen.

If you said that this proof would be ending DLC, i would tear you apart
Oops, i already did that. You just declaring anything you don't like a dream, but somehow, "breath scene" you considering real.
If facts disproves the theory - to hell with facts

The
point of IT? Not a great battle of minds. Shepard's indoctrinated.
Oops. Perhaps the decision made will affect the degree of
indoctrination, maybe it won't. Maybe whichever choice he made, we'll
still have to put a bullet in his brain.

So, the real ending then:
Reapers crushed everyone, then indoctrinated Shepard just for lulz. They already won, they could just kill Shepard many times or let him die, and he is just a simple special forces soldier, with no fleet commanding experience(meaning he is insignificant to even bother with indoctrinating) - but they decided to have some fun.

So, at the end of ME3 - we have no fleets, no ground troops(well they useless anyway), and reapers still a threat.
Congratulations, you just outdone EAWare with bleak, hopeless and nonsensical writing.

1. No. People aren't dead yet.
2. How does your "bad writing" disprove IT?

How did you tear me apart? I already told you. Only the intervals in which things could not have possibly been real, have been deemed unreal. And there are nice transition points with Shepard being knocked out by Harbinger, and Shepard awaking. Is there some reason why you suspect the breath scene cannot be real?

The real ending: Reapers didn;t crush anyone. They indoctrinated Shepard. Not for the lulz, but because they wanted him. They had not already won, but they could have killed him. He's the best soldier they could take. He's an even better choice than Saren.

So at the end of ME3- we have fleets, ground troops (but not Shepard. But Shepard isn't the only competent person in the galaxy anyway) and the Reapers are still a threat.

bleak, but there is hope and there is sense.

[ld1449]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

The ending after the EC is nowhere near bad. Don't see what all the fuss is about.

You would perhaps have better luck if you proceeded to remove your cranium from your cloaca. Just a suggestion.

You sure do enjoy following me around this place, trying to come up with lamer and lamer insults with each post.

But hey, if it makes you happy, I'm happy.

*Here before you- must have followed you into this thread.*

Brilliant deduction

[Clayless]

ld1449 wrote...

*Here before you- must have followed you into this thread.*

Brilliant deduction

Here's another deduction:

You were lying and didn't expect me to call you on it, now you're trying to do everything you can to stop me from inevitably exposing that.

[hukbum]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

*Here before you- must have followed you into this thread.*

Brilliant deduction

Here's another deduction:

You were lying and didn't expect me to call you on it, now you're trying to do everything you can to stop me from inevitably exposing that.

Take a look at page 1 ...

[ld1449]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

*Here before you- must have followed you into this thread.*

Brilliant deduction

Here's another deduction:

You were lying and didn't expect me to call you on it, now you're trying to do everything you can to stop me from inevitably exposing that.

Whatever strokes your ego I guess though I'm not exactly sure where the so called "lie" is. Is it hiding with the imaginary backpedals?

Ohh, I know, maybe you'd like to compare me to a simpsons episode to make you feel vindicated. No? Family guy then? Sponge bob?

I answered your question. Everyone here seems to realise this but you.

[Clayless]

ld1449 wrote...

I answered your question. Everyone here seems to realise this but you.

And was it a yes or a no?

Please, no talk about Spongebob or Family Guy this time, it really shouldn't take you this long to answer a simple question.

[The Spamming Troll]

oh, poor sweet arial.

this topic kindof backfired for you eh?

people enjoyed your bonkers idea more then what they actually got. by now, is it obvious enough for you to see that people just dont like ME3??? no badly attempted half baked idea is worse then what bioware actually gave us. it doesnt have to make sense to you, but atleast acknowledge that fact.

people hate ME3 and there is nothing you can do to change it.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 20 novembre 2012 - 12:07 .

[ld1449]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

I answered your question. Everyone here seems to realise this but you.

And was it a yes or a no?

Please, no talk about Spongebob or Family Guy this time, it really shouldn't take you this long to answer a simple question.

No.

Short enough for you now?

Would you like the long version?

Nooooooooo

Do you require it spelled out.

N-O

These are two letters in the english language they can be found in the alphabet. Right next to each other actually, between M and P. Put them together and they make the most fundemental negative.

Can it be any more clear for you?

No. The hypothetical ending does not invalidate everything that happened within the Simulation universe.

I will be sure to bring the ABC cards next time you ask something since you aparently need them.

[Clayless]

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

And was it a yes or a no?

Please, no talk about Spongebob or Family Guy this time, it really shouldn't take you this long to answer a simple question.

No.

Short enough for you now?

Fantastic, only took us about 17 posts but hey, progress.

Now, why do you think an ending, that makes it so nothing ever happened, doesn't make the entire series pointless? What is it about all those character interactions, choices and developments, that never happened that somehow didn't make the entire series pointless?

Now I must add, please don't try to figure out my opinion in your reply, I only want yours, and please don't answer any questions I haven't asked (AKA something about the current ending). We're making progress here, breaking it down bit by bit.

[MegaSovereign]

[KingZayd]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

And was it a yes or a no?

Please, no talk about Spongebob or Family Guy this time, it really shouldn't take you this long to answer a simple question.

No.

Short enough for you now?

Fantastic, only took us about 17 posts but hey, progress.

Now, why do you think an ending, that makes it so nothing ever happened, doesn't make the entire series pointless? What is it about all those character interactions, choices and developments, that never happened that somehow didn't make the entire series pointless?

Now I must add, please don't try to figure out my opinion in your reply, I only want yours, and please don't answer any questions I haven't asked (AKA something about the current ending). We're making progress here, breaking it down bit by bit.

17 posts, and that's progress?! How much trouble do you have with reading? I'm not sure forums are really appropriate for someone with your difficulties.

[ld1449]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

And was it a yes or a no?

Please, no talk about Spongebob or Family Guy this time, it really shouldn't take you this long to answer a simple question.

No.

Short enough for you now?

Fantastic, only took us about 17 posts but hey, progress.

Now, why do you think an ending, that makes it so nothing ever happened, doesn't make the entire series pointless? What is it about all those character interactions, choices and developments, that never happened that somehow didn't make the entire series pointless?

Now I must add, please don't try to figure out my opinion in your reply, I only want yours, and please don't answer any questions I haven't asked (AKA something about the current ending). We're making progress here, breaking it down bit by bit.

Answered in the fifth post on page five

[ld1449]

MegaSovereign wrote...

I actually loled a bit at this

[Clayless]

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Fantastic, only took us about 17 posts but hey, progress.

Now, why do you think an ending, that makes it so nothing ever happened, doesn't make the entire series pointless? What is it about all those character interactions, choices and developments, that never happened that somehow didn't make the entire series pointless?

Now I must add, please don't try to figure out my opinion in your reply, I only want yours, and please don't answer any questions I haven't asked (AKA something about the current ending). We're making progress here, breaking it down bit by bit.

Answered in the fifth post on page five

Can you answer my question, and not direct me to a post directed at another poster?

[ld1449]

.......And This just went from ridiculous to asinine.

[KingZayd]

ld1449 wrote...

.......And This just went from ridiculous to asinine.

And that is why OurLastScene is the only person on BSN that I've ever called an idiot (as far as I can recall)