393 réponses à ce sujet

[ld1449]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Our_Last_Scene says that the hypothetical ending in the OP makes the entire series not matter at all. This could be true but you'd have to make a bunch of huge assumptions. First off you'd have to assume that there is no way you could fail the N7 test. Otherwise your choices and decisions would matter because that's what would determine whether you passed the test.

Even in this case, I think it would ruin the trilogy's replay value. Such a huge twist would be a one hit wonder, afterwards it wouldn't be as cool to experience if you know that none of the small choices you've made even matter. Ofcourse, some people would argue that the endings currently in the game make those choices pointless but at least you feel like it had an impact off-screen. If the game outright tells you that everything you've done does not have any effect, then that would be a problem. You could argue that the series doesn't exist in real life anyways, but that's not the point. The OP's ending would make it to where none of the things you did even exists in the fiction. This, at least IMO, would be a lot more destructive to the series than even the original pre-EC endings were.

The way I see it its no different than the assumption in ME2 that Shepard obviously survived the suicide mission. Even though you had the complete option of killing him by screwing up enough in the suicide mission itself.

So the assumption that he wins really isn't much of a problem since that's the assumption of all game endings anyway.

As stated before I don't think it would ruin the replay value because what would be done in the virtual world would determine what missions you would be sent on when you're an N7 after you get out of it. Or even the options available to complete missions that you'd have to go on.

If you make Shepard full renegade in the "sim" world, then you've set up his psych profile for ME4 to have him be a cuthroat bastard.

Save the civilians or go after the objective? You wouldn't have this option. If your Shepard was a pure ren throughout ME1-3 he just goes after the objective no questions asked.

The whole simulation was a way to see if he had what it took to be an N7 and to determine the capabilities/psych profile you'd be using in the outside world along with what relationships you have in the outside world.

No it does not "exist" but the way you've crafted your character and his history (spacer colonist ruthless earthborn ect.  and the actions he will take in ME4 because of it WILL.

[KingZayd]

MegaSovereign wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Our_Last_Scene says that the hypothetical ending in the OP makes the entire series not matter at all. This could be true but you'd have to make a bunch of huge assumptions. First off you'd have to assume that there is no way you could fail the N7 test. Otherwise your choices and decisions would matter because that's what would determine whether you passed the test.

Even in this case, I think it would ruin the trilogy's replay value. Such a huge twist would be a one hit wonder, afterwards it wouldn't be as cool to experience if you know that none of the small choices you've made even matter. Ofcourse, some people would argue that the endings currently in the game make those choices pointless but at least you feel like it had an impact off-screen. If the game outright tells you that everything you've done does not have any effect, then that would be a problem. You could argue that the series doesn't exist in real life anyways, but that's not the point. The OP's ending would make it to where none of the things you did even exists in the fiction. This, at least IMO, would be a lot more destructive to the series than even the original pre-EC endings were.

The things would exist in the fiction contained in the other fictional universe. But that first bit of fiction would still be good.

Maybe so, but again not enough context was given in the OP's ending to reach a definitive conclusion on how the "real" ME universe would be like. We could automatically assume that any and all relationships Shepard had developed in the "simulation" would be pointless. There is also the possibility that none of the important events like humanity getting a seat on the council or a human becoming a Spectre ever happened.

True, and that's why it was a preferred ending, not a liked one.

But an ending that we see as making no sense, could have the same effect on that universe. Only, it'd spoil that bit of nice fiction too.

I don't agree. Again even with the vague pre-EC endings I could at least imagine my choices mattering off-screen. The OP's ending would literally take that away.

You see the endings as making some kind of sense right, even if not great?

I see the endings as universe breaking. I don't mind about the vagueness. I just thought the endings were stupid. I actually think the EC added more nonsense, and so made it worse.

[Clayless]

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

@ Scene. I gave you your answer. Go read it. Come back with your counter argument to it. If you don't then quite frankly, **** off. If you can't be bothered to go back to page five, read and comprehend, I can't be bothered to keep encouraging this rather sad display you're making of yourself

Unfortunately you directed me to an answer to a question someone else asked, and never actually answered the question I asked.

Instead of going out of your way to, yet again, avoid answering my question, why don't you just answer my question? Surely you want to prove me wrong? Don't you think that actually trying to prove me wrong would be a better way to go about that? Don't you see how doing what you're currently doing, which is everything you can to avoid proving me wrong, is not an ideal way to go about things?

Like it's not a complicated question, unless you don't want something to be exposed you really shouldn't worry about answering it. Heck, answering it may actually help your cause. You might actually be able to make a point if you attempted it.

Then here's my answer. **** off.

Come back when you can actually show you can put 2 and 2 together for yourself.

So I'll take that as an easy win. That's disappointing, I almost believed you were going to have a mature conversation about your points, instead I got constant avoiding and eventually childish refusal and cursing.

"I think that ending is better"

"You think that ending that makes the entire series pointless is better?"

"*17 posts of nothing later* I don't think it makes the series pointless!"

"Why do you think that?"

"**** off go find out my opinion, that I'm pefectly capable of telling you, for yourself" because the best way to get something done, and prove others wrong, is to not do it and plain refuse to even try.

But yeah, that was too easy. If you ever feel like proving me wrong (not likely giving that mess of posts you made) please, don't be afraid to actually try next time.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 20 novembre 2012 - 01:24 .

[KingZayd]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

@ Scene. I gave you your answer. Go read it. Come back with your counter argument to it. If you don't then quite frankly, **** off. If you can't be bothered to go back to page five, read and comprehend, I can't be bothered to keep encouraging this rather sad display you're making of yourself

Unfortunately you directed me to an answer to a question someone else asked, and never actually answered the question I asked.

Instead of going out of your way to, yet again, avoid answering my question, why don't you just answer my question? Surely you want to prove me wrong? Don't you think that actually trying to prove me wrong would be a better way to go about that? Don't you see how doing what you're currently doing, which is everything you can to avoid proving me wrong, is not an ideal way to go about things?

Like it's not a complicated question, unless you don't want something to be exposed you really shouldn't worry about answering it. Heck, answering it may actually help your cause. You might actually be able to make a point if you attempted it.

Then here's my answer. **** off.

Come back when you can actually show you can put 2 and 2 together for yourself.

So I'll take that as an easy win. That's disappointing, I almost believed you were going to have a mature conversation about your points, instead I got constant avoiding and eventually childish refusal and cursing.

"I think that ending is better"

"You think that ending that makes the entire series pointless is better?"

"*17 posts of nothing later* I don't think it makes the series pointless!"

"Why do you think that?"

"**** off go find out my opinion, that I'm pefectly capable of telling you, for yourself" because the best way to get something done, and prove others wrong, is to not do it and plain refuse to even try.

But yeah, that was too easy. If you ever feel like proving me wrong (not likely giving that mess of posts you made) please, don't be afraid to actually try next time.

Yes. You go ahead and accept that "win".

[MegaSovereign]

ld1449 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Our_Last_Scene says that the hypothetical ending in the OP makes the entire series not matter at all. This could be true but you'd have to make a bunch of huge assumptions. First off you'd have to assume that there is no way you could fail the N7 test. Otherwise your choices and decisions would matter because that's what would determine whether you passed the test.

Even in this case, I think it would ruin the trilogy's replay value. Such a huge twist would be a one hit wonder, afterwards it wouldn't be as cool to experience if you know that none of the small choices you've made even matter. Ofcourse, some people would argue that the endings currently in the game make those choices pointless but at least you feel like it had an impact off-screen. If the game outright tells you that everything you've done does not have any effect, then that would be a problem. You could argue that the series doesn't exist in real life anyways, but that's not the point. The OP's ending would make it to where none of the things you did even exists in the fiction. This, at least IMO, would be a lot more destructive to the series than even the original pre-EC endings were.

The way I see it its no different than the assumption in ME2 that Shepard obviously survived the suicide mission. Even though you had the complete option of killing him by screwing up enough in the suicide mission itself.

So the assumption that he wins really isn't much of a problem since that's the assumption of all game endings anyway.

As stated before I don't think it would ruin the replay value because what would be done in the virtual world would determine what missions you would be sent on when you're an N7 after you get out of it. Or even the options available to complete missions that you'd have to go on.

If you make Shepard full renegade in the "sim" world, then you've set up his psych profile for ME4 to have him be a cuthroat bastard.

Save the civilians or go after the objective? You wouldn't have this option. If your Shepard was a pure ren throughout ME1-3 he just goes after the objective no questions asked.

The whole simulation was a way to see if he had what it took to be an N7 and to determine the capabilities/psych profile you'd be using in the outside world along with what relationships you have in the outside world.

No it does not "exist" but the way you've crafted your character and his history (spacer colonist ruthless earthborn ect.  and the actions he will take in ME4 because of it WILL.

If I were to replay the trilogy with this ending, what incentive would I have to save people I know that don't exist within the fiction? 

Again, these choices have an off-screen impact that is taken away because of this ending.

[MegaSovereign]

KingZayd wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Our_Last_Scene says that the hypothetical ending in the OP makes the entire series not matter at all. This could be true but you'd have to make a bunch of huge assumptions. First off you'd have to assume that there is no way you could fail the N7 test. Otherwise your choices and decisions would matter because that's what would determine whether you passed the test.

Even in this case, I think it would ruin the trilogy's replay value. Such a huge twist would be a one hit wonder, afterwards it wouldn't be as cool to experience if you know that none of the small choices you've made even matter. Ofcourse, some people would argue that the endings currently in the game make those choices pointless but at least you feel like it had an impact off-screen. If the game outright tells you that everything you've done does not have any effect, then that would be a problem. You could argue that the series doesn't exist in real life anyways, but that's not the point. The OP's ending would make it to where none of the things you did even exists in the fiction. This, at least IMO, would be a lot more destructive to the series than even the original pre-EC endings were.

The things would exist in the fiction contained in the other fictional universe. But that first bit of fiction would still be good.

Maybe so, but again not enough context was given in the OP's ending to reach a definitive conclusion on how the "real" ME universe would be like. We could automatically assume that any and all relationships Shepard had developed in the "simulation" would be pointless. There is also the possibility that none of the important events like humanity getting a seat on the council or a human becoming a Spectre ever happened.

True, and that's why it was a preferred ending, not a liked one.

But an ending that we see as making no sense, could have the same effect on that universe. Only, it'd spoil that bit of nice fiction too.

I don't agree. Again even with the vague pre-EC endings I could at least imagine my choices mattering off-screen. The OP's ending would literally take that away.

You see the endings as making some kind of sense right, even if not great?

I see the endings as universe breaking. I don't mind about the vagueness. I just thought the endings were stupid. I actually think the EC added more nonsense, and so made it worse.

So the narrative broke your suspension of disbelief. That's a different problem.

The problem with the OP's ending is that it would be trivial.

[ld1449]

MegaSovereign wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Our_Last_Scene says that the hypothetical ending in the OP makes the entire series not matter at all. This could be true but you'd have to make a bunch of huge assumptions. First off you'd have to assume that there is no way you could fail the N7 test. Otherwise your choices and decisions would matter because that's what would determine whether you passed the test.

Even in this case, I think it would ruin the trilogy's replay value. Such a huge twist would be a one hit wonder, afterwards it wouldn't be as cool to experience if you know that none of the small choices you've made even matter. Ofcourse, some people would argue that the endings currently in the game make those choices pointless but at least you feel like it had an impact off-screen. If the game outright tells you that everything you've done does not have any effect, then that would be a problem. You could argue that the series doesn't exist in real life anyways, but that's not the point. The OP's ending would make it to where none of the things you did even exists in the fiction. This, at least IMO, would be a lot more destructive to the series than even the original pre-EC endings were.

The way I see it its no different than the assumption in ME2 that Shepard obviously survived the suicide mission. Even though you had the complete option of killing him by screwing up enough in the suicide mission itself.

So the assumption that he wins really isn't much of a problem since that's the assumption of all game endings anyway.

As stated before I don't think it would ruin the replay value because what would be done in the virtual world would determine what missions you would be sent on when you're an N7 after you get out of it. Or even the options available to complete missions that you'd have to go on.

If you make Shepard full renegade in the "sim" world, then you've set up his psych profile for ME4 to have him be a cuthroat bastard.

Save the civilians or go after the objective? You wouldn't have this option. If your Shepard was a pure ren throughout ME1-3 he just goes after the objective no questions asked.

The whole simulation was a way to see if he had what it took to be an N7 and to determine the capabilities/psych profile you'd be using in the outside world along with what relationships you have in the outside world.

No it does not "exist" but the way you've crafted your character and his history (spacer colonist ruthless earthborn ect.  and the actions he will take in ME4 because of it WILL.

If I were to replay the trilogy with this ending, what incentive would I have to save people I know that don't exist within the fiction? 

Again, these choices have an off-screen impact that is taken away because of this ending.

Because the Shepard that you create in this world might do something when he gets out that you dont like. He might fail at something you wanted to suceed in. He might kill someone you didn't want to kill.

What you do in the VI world dirrectly affects the way he acts and the options available to you in the outside world.

[KingZayd]

Maxster_ wrote...
Lots

2. No. You haven't. The Reapers had not already won. They had the Citadel, but the armed forces were still fighting strong.

Twist might be revealed at the start of ME4:devil:


1. (this numbering system doesn't really make sense) Allied fleets weren't annihilated.
2. I already told you. Only the stuff that couldn't possibly be real was declared unreal. This was conveniently bordered by 2 events: a) Harbinger knocking out Shepard. and Shepard breathing at the end.
Torn apart? not at all.

When a bunch of nonsense surrounded by a) going unconscious. and waking up. It's safe to say that bunch of nonsense took place in a dream.

The real ending: Reapers didn't crush anyone. They indoctrinated Shepard. Not for the lulz, but because they wanted him. They had not already won, but they could have killed him. He's the best soldier they could take. He's an even better choice than Saren.


So at the end of ME3- we have fleets, ground troops (but not Shepard. But Shepard isn't the only competent person in the galaxy anyway) and the Reapers are still a threat.


These still stand.

Like reapers having(reapers are, actually) several thousands of sovereign-class dreadnoughts. Which in no way could be beaten by allied fleets.
And most of those are at Earth.
So, sequence of the final mission:
1. Hackett gathers fleets and prepares them for attack(following battleplan - Crucible delivery to Citadel).
2. Fleets passing Sol relay and going for Earth.
3. Fleets engaging reapers, Hammer dropped for stupid ground assault.
4. Fleets fighting, buying Hammer time with their destruction. Given overwhelming reaper opposition, fleets would have barely enough time to deliver Crucible, and taking heavy losses every minute.
5. Crucible sent in.
6. Shepard arrives at the beam

This is the point we're at. We only hear Hammer is decimated (despite everyone we know in Team Hammer being completely fine) in the dream. Then Shepard begins to succumb to indoctrination. Cliffhanger ending.

Reapers decided to indoctrinate Shepard because they need him for some unknown reason.
They haven't decimated the fleets or  destroyed the Crucible.

How is the Crucible nonsense and absurd? Only what we see of it in the dream is.
Cerberus becoming a "Sith Empire" when they had the Reaper implants and indoctrination tech, as well as the Sanctuary scam isn't nonsense at all.

And you writing a bunch of nonsense isn't proof of anything.

[KingZayd]

MegaSovereign wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Our_Last_Scene says that the hypothetical ending in the OP makes the entire series not matter at all. This could be true but you'd have to make a bunch of huge assumptions. First off you'd have to assume that there is no way you could fail the N7 test. Otherwise your choices and decisions would matter because that's what would determine whether you passed the test.

Even in this case, I think it would ruin the trilogy's replay value. Such a huge twist would be a one hit wonder, afterwards it wouldn't be as cool to experience if you know that none of the small choices you've made even matter. Ofcourse, some people would argue that the endings currently in the game make those choices pointless but at least you feel like it had an impact off-screen. If the game outright tells you that everything you've done does not have any effect, then that would be a problem. You could argue that the series doesn't exist in real life anyways, but that's not the point. The OP's ending would make it to where none of the things you did even exists in the fiction. This, at least IMO, would be a lot more destructive to the series than even the original pre-EC endings were.

The things would exist in the fiction contained in the other fictional universe. But that first bit of fiction would still be good.

Maybe so, but again not enough context was given in the OP's ending to reach a definitive conclusion on how the "real" ME universe would be like. We could automatically assume that any and all relationships Shepard had developed in the "simulation" would be pointless. There is also the possibility that none of the important events like humanity getting a seat on the council or a human becoming a Spectre ever happened.

True, and that's why it was a preferred ending, not a liked one.

But an ending that we see as making no sense, could have the same effect on that universe. Only, it'd spoil that bit of nice fiction too.

I don't agree. Again even with the vague pre-EC endings I could at least imagine my choices mattering off-screen. The OP's ending would literally take that away.

You see the endings as making some kind of sense right, even if not great?

I see the endings as universe breaking. I don't mind about the vagueness. I just thought the endings were stupid. I actually think the EC added more nonsense, and so made it worse.

So the narrative broke your suspension of disbelief. That's a different problem.

The problem with the OP's ending is that it would be trivial.

Exactly. Which is why I prefer OP's ending.

[MegaSovereign]

@ ld1449

Something like that would just turn into an EMS-like system where all your choices are translated into numbers. The off-screen impact would still be nonexistent.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

ld1449 wrote...

magnetite wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Soooooo....Let me get this straight.

The ending doesn't make sense.

Why?

Bad Writing?

No there must be a deeper reason Why the ending doesn't make sense. It makes no sense so lets figure out why it doesn't make sense until it make sense...

This is the logic we're going with?

It makes no sense so there must be meaning?

Did you read the codex or anything? Some of the hints are in there.

I have read every single codex page.

Due to a lack of photographic memory however you'll have to point one or two out if you wish to demonstrate what qualifies as a clue.

But furthermore lets just put this up for the test.

You say that everything in the ending makes sense if you're just willing to look for it. Correct?

Then here's one of my biggest tripes with the ending itself.

Synthesis outright breaks all universe law.

In sci-fi stories there are generally Five tiers of civilization.

1-where we are, one plannet, multiple governments.

2- Global, which is to say One government over the whole world technology  in this brand of sci-fi is, by and large, Pseudo-science, things that we could feasibly see happening some point within the next 100 years,  something like...some of batmans gadgets

3- Colonial where we have the home planet and outlying colonies (Halo fits this niche nicely)

4- Galactic, Star Wars. The level of technology here varies from universe  to universe but is generally very advanced but still more or less  limited by the basic known laws of physics.

5- Universal- genres  that span multiple galaxies. This one is hardly seen because largely, One galaxy is big enough for a story and the level of technology to feasibly control multiple galaxies is nothing shy of pure magic.

Mass Effect would fall under tier 4.

Synthesis falls under tier five.

Synthesis changes every organic being in the galaxy (even plant life) to being a synthetic, organic hybrid.

There are 200-400 billion stars in our galaxy. Lets meet in the middle and say 300 billion.

If even 1/100th of those starts have habitable planets

That is still 3 billion habitable plannets.

Earth, today has more than 7 billion PEOPLE nevermind plant and animal life, PEOPLE.

Lets round it off and put every planet at 10,billion population, plant, animal and sapient. And this is me being NICE because its very likely up in the 20 or 30 billion populous.

3 billion times 10 billion. We don't even have digits that go that high.

And the Crucible, something labeled a POWER source changes each and every  single one of these things down to the cellular level, in an EYE-BLINK

Cellular level.

There are TRILLIONS of cells just in you and me alone. Now multiply 3  billion planets, by 10,billion people and multiply THAT by at least 1,trillion cells for  every single individual.

Its incalculable. We don't have numbers that go that high.

The logistics of Synthesis, is mind numbing.

To affect everything in the galaxy to this degree with a POWERSOURCE is a complete break of in-universe law.

Furthermore the crucible was created by organic races. Organic races that are less advanced than the reapers. Organic races that were killed by the reapers because they were less advanced than them and thus, could not win.

Reapers do not have the level of technology Synthesis would require.

How in the hell do these dystopian species all conglamarating the crucible together like a jigsaw puzzle mannage to pull this off.

Whoa man, there is no need to be using basic logic like that. It's dangerous, what if mag's mind was blown? What would you do then?

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 20 novembre 2012 - 01:47 .

[ld1449]

MegaSovereign wrote...

@ ld1449

Something like that would just turn into an EMS-like system where all your choices are translated into numbers. The off-screen impact would still be nonexistent.

It would play out in ME4 it'd be "off screen" between the interval of ME3 until ME4 releases but that's no different from the outcomes of ME2 waiting on ME3 release.

[Yate]

holy **** synthesis does not mean one government are you a moron?

[Yate]

are you guys actually arguing about the merits of a made up ending my god you are dumb

[ld1449]

Yate wrote...

holy **** synthesis does not mean one government are you a moron?

Are 90 percent of you illiterate or something?

[Mello]

Awww OP is going through one of his stages of the mass effect 3 ending.

Modifié par iPoohCupCakes, 20 novembre 2012 - 01:52 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

ld1449 wrote...

Yate wrote...

holy **** synthesis does not mean one government are you a moron?

Are 90 percent of you illiterate or something?

icwhatudidthar.

[Maxster_]

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...
Lots
[/quote]
2. No. You haven't. The Reapers had not already won. They had the Citadel, but the armed forces were still fighting strong.
[/quote]
I won't even bother asking for proof. You clearly have none.
Discussion lost any sense when you admitted that you just declaring anything you don't like being a dream.
[quote]
Twist might be revealed at the start of ME4:devil:
[/quote]
Lol
[quote]
1. (this numbering system doesn't really make sense) Allied fleets weren't annihilated.
[/quote]
Sure.
Because it was all a dream.
[quote]
2. I already told you. Only the stuff that couldn't possibly be real was declared unreal. This was conveniently bordered by 2 events: a) Harbinger knocking out Shepard. and Shepard breathing at the end.
Torn apart? not at all.

When a bunch of nonsense surrounded by a) going unconscious. and waking up. It's safe to say that bunch of nonsense took place in a dream.
[/quote]
Sure. You just cut things you don't like, and not cut things you like.
When you are deliberately ignoring evidence, to make your "theory" look plausible - you just losing credibilty.
It is basically forging, with such method, you can "prove" everything.
[quote]
The real ending: Reapers didn't crush anyone. They indoctrinated Shepard. Not for the lulz, but because they wanted him. They had not already won, but they could have killed him. He's the best soldier they could take. He's an even better choice than Saren.
[/quote]
This is nonsense.
Unless of course, you cut out not only Catalyst, but also everything related to retarded battleplan for fleets, and actual fleet combat. Then it is forging of evidence.

Reapers outnumbers and outguns allied fleets. And all those fleets are fighting at Earth straight-on on reaper fleets.
They are annihilated, you just ignoring evidence again.

Therefore your gibberish about reapers sparing Shepard, is another nonsense, even worse than EAWare's one.
Congratulations, you outdone EAWare crap writing, with even more crap writing.
z-movie level storytelling ftw.
[quote]
So at the end of ME3- we have fleets, ground troops (but not Shepard. But Shepard isn't the only competent person in the galaxy anyway) and the Reapers are still a threat

These still stand.
[/quote]
No. You just ignoring anything that's doesn't fit your nonsensical "theory".
[quote]
Like reapers having(reapers are, actually) several thousands of sovereign-class dreadnoughts. Which in no way could be beaten by allied fleets.
And most of those are at Earth.
So, sequence of the final mission:
1. Hackett gathers fleets and prepares them for attack(following battleplan - Crucible delivery to Citadel).
2. Fleets passing Sol relay and going for Earth.
3. Fleets engaging reapers, Hammer dropped for stupid ground assault.
4. Fleets fighting, buying Hammer time with their destruction. Given overwhelming reaper opposition, fleets would have barely enough time to deliver Crucible, and taking heavy losses every minute.
5. Crucible sent in.
6. Shepard arrives at the beam

This is the point we're at. We only hear Hammer is decimated (despite everyone we know in Team Hammer being completely fine) in the dream. Then Shepard begins to succumb to indoctrination. Cliffhanger ending.
[/quote]
So, you basically telling me, that there was no fleet battle.
Your headcanon(which btw contradicts game) is so funny.

[quote]
Reapers decided to indoctrinate Shepard because they need him for some unknown reason.
They haven't decimated the fleets or  destroyed the Crucible.
[/quote]
Suure. Itwasalladream.
This proves the IT. :lol:
[quote]
How is the Crucible nonsense and absurd? Only what we see of it in the dream is.
[/quote]
Sure, you are designing unknown device with unknown function, which should interface with another unknown device with unknown interface, unknown function, unknown location, and unconfirmed existence and even need of it.
That's how engineering works in real life
...
Not.

And then it conveniently found right after beginning of each cycle reapers invasion, and this conveniently happens for minimum 20000 times.
Plausible :lol:

Crucible is just a magic device, that can not be designed and can not exists. It is plot mocking device, deus ex plothole.

You just demonstrated that you have no idea of what science, engineering or common sense is.
[quote]
Cerberus becoming a "Sith Empire" when they had the Reaper implants and indoctrination tech, as well as the Sanctuary scam isn't nonsense at all.
[/quote]
May common sense rest in peace. It won't be missed.
Next thing you say that they built their fleets in half a year. Ah yes, you already said that :D:D
[quote]
And you writing a bunch of nonsense isn't proof of anything.
[/quote]
Said someone who just declares everything he didn't like a dream. So much credibility

Modifié par Maxster_, 20 novembre 2012 - 02:05 .

[KingZayd]

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...
Lots
[/quote]
2. No. You haven't. The Reapers had not already won. They had the Citadel, but the armed forces were still fighting strong.
[/quote]
I won't even bother asking for proof. You clearly have none.
Discussion lost any sense when you admitted that you just declaring anything you don't like being a dream.
[quote]
Twist might be revealed at the start of ME4:devil:
[/quote]
Lol
[quote]
1. (this numbering system doesn't really make sense) Allied fleets weren't annihilated.
[/quote]
Sure.
Because it was all a dream.
[quote]
2. I already told you. Only the stuff that couldn't possibly be real was declared unreal. This was conveniently bordered by 2 events: a) Harbinger knocking out Shepard. and Shepard breathing at the end.
Torn apart? not at all.

When a bunch of nonsense surrounded by a) going unconscious. and waking up. It's safe to say that bunch of nonsense took place in a dream.
[/quote]
Sure. You just cut things you don't like, and not cut things you like.
When you are deliberately ignoring evidence, to make your "theory" look plausible - you just losing credibilty.
It is basically forging, with such method, you can "prove" everything.
[quote]
The real ending: Reapers didn't crush anyone. They indoctrinated Shepard. Not for the lulz, but because they wanted him. They had not already won, but they could have killed him. He's the best soldier they could take. He's an even better choice than Saren.
[/quote]
This is nonsense.
Unless of course, you cut out not only Catalyst, but also everything related to retarded battleplan for fleets, and actual fleet combat. Then it is forging of evidence.

Reapers outnumbers and outguns allied fleets. And all those fleets are fighting at Earth straight-on on reaper fleets.
They are annihilated, you just ignoring evidence again.

Therefore your gibberish about reapers sparing Shepard, is another nonsense, even worse than EAWare's one.
Congratulations, you outdone EAWare crap writing, with even more crap writing.
z-movie level storytelling ftw.
[quote]
So at the end of ME3- we have fleets, ground troops (but not Shepard. But Shepard isn't the only competent person in the galaxy anyway) and the Reapers are still a threat

These still stand.
[/quote]
No. You just ignoring anything that's doesn't fit your nonsensical theory.
[quote]
Like reapers having(reapers are, actually) several thousands of sovereign-class dreadnoughts. Which in no way could be beaten by allied fleets.
And most of those are at Earth.
So, sequence of the final mission:
1. Hackett gathers fleets and prepares them for attack(following battleplan - Crucible delivery to Citadel).
2. Fleets passing Sol relay and going for Earth.
3. Fleets engaging reapers, Hammer dropped for stupid ground assault.
4. Fleets fighting, buying Hammer time with their destruction. Given overwhelming reaper opposition, fleets would have barely enough time to deliver Crucible, and taking heavy losses every minute.
5. Crucible sent in.
6. Shepard arrives at the beam

This is the point we're at. We only hear Hammer is decimated (despite everyone we know in Team Hammer being completely fine) in the dream. Then Shepard begins to succumb to indoctrination. Cliffhanger ending.
[/quote]
So, you basically telling me, that there was no fleet battle.
Your headcanon(which btw contradicts game) is so funny.

[quote]
Reapers decided to indoctrinate Shepard because they need him for some unknown reason.
They haven't decimated the fleets or  destroyed the Crucible.
[/quote]
Suure. Itwasalladream.
This proves the IT. :lol:
[quote]
How is the Crucible nonsense and absurd? Only what we see of it in the dream is.
[/quote]
Sure, you are designing unknown device with unknown function, which should interface with another unknown device with unknown interface, unknown function, unknown location, and unconfirmed existence and even need of it.
That's how engineering works in real life
...
Not.

And then it conveniently found right after beginning of each cycle reapers invasion, and this conveniently happens for minimum 20000 times.
Plausible :lol:

Crucible is just a magic device, that can not be designed and can not exists. It is plot mocking device, deus ex plothole.

You just demonstrated that you have no idea of what science, engineering or common sense is.
[quote]
Cerberus becoming a "Sith Empire" when they had the Reaper implants and indoctrination tech, as well as the Sanctuary scam isn't nonsense at all.
[/quote]
May common sense rest in peace. It won't be missed.
Next thing you say that they built their fleets in half a year. Ah yes, you already said that :D:D
[quote]
And you writing a bunch of nonsense isn't proof of anything.
[/quote]

Said someone who just declares everything he didn't like a dream. So much credibility

[/quote]


I think you misunderstood. I crossed out stuff on the list that had happened. I deleted stuff that hadn't.
There was a space battle. But Team sword had not been wiped out. Where do you get that from?

[Maxster_]

KingZayd wrote...

I think you misunderstood. I crossed out stuff on the list that had happened. I deleted stuff that hadn't.
There was a space battle. But Team sword had not been wiped out. Where do you get that from?

I understood perfectly.
You just cutting everyhing from a game in such way, so it fit with your "theory". And then insert some headcanon, which fit your "theory".
There was ending, Catalyst and epilogues, after "Harbringer's beam". You just declared that all a dream, and inserted IT "explanation" instead.
Then, for some nonsensical reason, you decided not to cut "breath scene", which was also after "Harbringer's beam". Obviously, because it fits your "theory".

Then, there was desperate fleets assault of reapers in Earth's orbit. Reapers clearly outnumbers and outguns allied fleets, and allied fleets attacks them straight-on(without even basic fleet tactic).
Obviously, only plausible conjecture that they were obliterated, or lost most of their numbers and retreated.
Only way they would not be obliterated - if there was no fleet battle.

Question is - had they hold the space long enough, to Crucible to dock.

But, in your "theory", Shepard never got to the Citadel, and question is - Crucible arrived at the battle site, or not. If it is arrived, then it most probably destroyed.
So, we have battered or obliterated fleets, and probably lost crucible, and 100% casualties in Hammer ground forces.

So, we had no hope of conventionally defeating the reapers at the start of ME3, when there was most of the galaxy fleets intact.
And now we have battered or completely obliterated fleets, with even less than no hope of defeating reapers, and no chances to even get to the Citadel(also, reapers can just turn off relays any moment).

This is called defeat. Of course, there is always a Space Magic(=bad writing) to have a even more magical victory, sure.
But this would require even more crappy writing, that was presented in ME3.

[KingZayd]

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

I think you misunderstood. I crossed out stuff on the list that had happened. I deleted stuff that hadn't.
There was a space battle. But Team sword had not been wiped out. Where do you get that from?

I understood perfectly.
You just cutting everyhing from a game in such way, so it fit with your "theory". And then insert some headcanon, which fit your "theory".
There was ending, Catalyst and epilogues, after "Harbringer's beam". You just declared that all a dream, and inserted IT "explanation" instead.
Then, for some nonsensical reason, you decided not to cut "breath scene", which was also after "Harbringer's beam". Obviously, because it fits your "theory".

Then, there was desperate fleets assault of reapers in Earth's orbit. Reapers clearly outnumbers and outguns allied fleets, and allied fleets attacks them straight-on(without even basic fleet tactic).
Obviously, only plausible conjecture that they were obliterated, or lost most of their numbers and retreated.
Only way they would not be obliterated - if there was no fleet battle.

Question is - had they hold the space long enough, to Crucible to dock.

But, in your "theory", Shepard never got to the Citadel, and question is - Crucible arrived at the battle site, or not. If it is arrived, then it most probably destroyed.
So, we have battered or obliterated fleets, and probably lost crucible, and 100% casualties in Hammer ground forces.

So, we had no hope of conventionally defeating the reapers at the start of ME3, when there was most of the galaxy fleets intact.
And now we have battered or completely obliterated fleets, with even less than no hope of defeating reapers, and no chances to even get to the Citadel(also, reapers can just turn off relays any moment).

This is called defeat. Of course, there is always a Space Magic(=bad writing) to have a even more magical victory, sure.
But this would require even more crappy writing, that was presented in ME3.

Why would it have arrived? Shepard didn't reach the Citadel.

What issues do you have with the breath scene being real. Do we have any reason to suspect it's not real?

I don't even believe in IT, and you can't show that my ideas don't make sense. All you do is repeat the same complaint over and over again.

[Maxster_]

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

I think you misunderstood. I crossed out stuff on the list that had happened. I deleted stuff that hadn't.
There was a space battle. But Team sword had not been wiped out. Where do you get that from?

I understood perfectly.
You just cutting everyhing from a game in such way, so it fit with your "theory". And then insert some headcanon, which fit your "theory".
There was ending, Catalyst and epilogues, after "Harbringer's beam". You just declared that all a dream, and inserted IT "explanation" instead.
Then, for some nonsensical reason, you decided not to cut "breath scene", which was also after "Harbringer's beam". Obviously, because it fits your "theory".

Then, there was desperate fleets assault of reapers in Earth's orbit. Reapers clearly outnumbers and outguns allied fleets, and allied fleets attacks them straight-on(without even basic fleet tactic).
Obviously, only plausible conjecture that they were obliterated, or lost most of their numbers and retreated.
Only way they would not be obliterated - if there was no fleet battle.

Question is - had they hold the space long enough, to Crucible to dock.

But, in your "theory", Shepard never got to the Citadel, and question is - Crucible arrived at the battle site, or not. If it is arrived, then it most probably destroyed.
So, we have battered or obliterated fleets, and probably lost crucible, and 100% casualties in Hammer ground forces.

So, we had no hope of conventionally defeating the reapers at the start of ME3, when there was most of the galaxy fleets intact.
And now we have battered or completely obliterated fleets, with even less than no hope of defeating reapers, and no chances to even get to the Citadel(also, reapers can just turn off relays any moment).

This is called defeat. Of course, there is always a Space Magic(=bad writing) to have a even more magical victory, sure.
But this would require even more crappy writing, that was presented in ME3.

Why would it have arrived? Shepard didn't reach the Citadel.

Watch game sequence. Crucible passed relay before Shepard started beam run.

What issues do you have with the breath scene being real. Do we have any reason to suspect it's not real?

You failed to prove anything being a dream. You just demonstrated that you cut content in whatever way you like.
You have no proof anything in the ending being a dream.
You stated that and demand that i prove otherwise? Pathetic.

I don't even believe in IT, and you can't show that my ideas don't make sense. All you do is repeat the same complaint over and over again.

I shown already to everyone who ever read this meaningless discussion.
IT is nonsense, both in-game and out-game. It was never ever a slightly plausible, it is nothing more than fan's delusion, based on forging of evidence.

[KingZayd]

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

I think you misunderstood. I crossed out stuff on the list that had happened. I deleted stuff that hadn't.
There was a space battle. But Team sword had not been wiped out. Where do you get that from?

I understood perfectly.
You just cutting everyhing from a game in such way, so it fit with your "theory". And then insert some headcanon, which fit your "theory".
There was ending, Catalyst and epilogues, after "Harbringer's beam". You just declared that all a dream, and inserted IT "explanation" instead.
Then, for some nonsensical reason, you decided not to cut "breath scene", which was also after "Harbringer's beam". Obviously, because it fits your "theory".

Then, there was desperate fleets assault of reapers in Earth's orbit. Reapers clearly outnumbers and outguns allied fleets, and allied fleets attacks them straight-on(without even basic fleet tactic).
Obviously, only plausible conjecture that they were obliterated, or lost most of their numbers and retreated.
Only way they would not be obliterated - if there was no fleet battle.

Question is - had they hold the space long enough, to Crucible to dock.

But, in your "theory", Shepard never got to the Citadel, and question is - Crucible arrived at the battle site, or not. If it is arrived, then it most probably destroyed.
So, we have battered or obliterated fleets, and probably lost crucible, and 100% casualties in Hammer ground forces.

So, we had no hope of conventionally defeating the reapers at the start of ME3, when there was most of the galaxy fleets intact.
And now we have battered or completely obliterated fleets, with even less than no hope of defeating reapers, and no chances to even get to the Citadel(also, reapers can just turn off relays any moment).

This is called defeat. Of course, there is always a Space Magic(=bad writing) to have a even more magical victory, sure.
But this would require even more crappy writing, that was presented in ME3.

Why would it have arrived? Shepard didn't reach the Citadel.

Watch game sequence. Crucible passed relay before Shepard started beam run.

What issues do you have with the breath scene being real. Do we have any reason to suspect it's not real?

You failed to prove anything being a dream. You just demonstrated that you cut content in whatever way you like.
You have no proof anything in the ending being a dream.
You stated that and demand that i prove otherwise? Pathetic.

I don't even believe in IT, and you can't show that my ideas don't make sense. All you do is repeat the same complaint over and over again.

I shown already to everyone who ever read this meaningless discussion.
IT is nonsense, both in-game and out-game. It was never ever a slightly plausible, it is nothing more than fan's delusion, based on forging of evidence.

You failed to proove anything being real. I cut a segment out between a moment of being knocked unconscious and one of awaking. You have no proof anything in the ending is real. You stated that it's real and demand I prove otherwise?

You've shown nothing.

[Maxster_]

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

I think you misunderstood. I crossed out stuff on the list that had happened. I deleted stuff that hadn't.
There was a space battle. But Team sword had not been wiped out. Where do you get that from?

I understood perfectly.
You just cutting everyhing from a game in such way, so it fit with your "theory". And then insert some headcanon, which fit your "theory".
There was ending, Catalyst and epilogues, after "Harbringer's beam". You just declared that all a dream, and inserted IT "explanation" instead.
Then, for some nonsensical reason, you decided not to cut "breath scene", which was also after "Harbringer's beam". Obviously, because it fits your "theory".

Then, there was desperate fleets assault of reapers in Earth's orbit. Reapers clearly outnumbers and outguns allied fleets, and allied fleets attacks them straight-on(without even basic fleet tactic).
Obviously, only plausible conjecture that they were obliterated, or lost most of their numbers and retreated.
Only way they would not be obliterated - if there was no fleet battle.

Question is - had they hold the space long enough, to Crucible to dock.

But, in your "theory", Shepard never got to the Citadel, and question is - Crucible arrived at the battle site, or not. If it is arrived, then it most probably destroyed.
So, we have battered or obliterated fleets, and probably lost crucible, and 100% casualties in Hammer ground forces.

So, we had no hope of conventionally defeating the reapers at the start of ME3, when there was most of the galaxy fleets intact.
And now we have battered or completely obliterated fleets, with even less than no hope of defeating reapers, and no chances to even get to the Citadel(also, reapers can just turn off relays any moment).

This is called defeat. Of course, there is always a Space Magic(=bad writing) to have a even more magical victory, sure.
But this would require even more crappy writing, that was presented in ME3.

Why would it have arrived? Shepard didn't reach the Citadel.

Watch game sequence. Crucible passed relay before Shepard started beam run.

What issues do you have with the breath scene being real. Do we have any reason to suspect it's not real?

You failed to prove anything being a dream. You just demonstrated that you cut content in whatever way you like.
You have no proof anything in the ending being a dream.
You stated that and demand that i prove otherwise? Pathetic.

I don't even believe in IT, and you can't show that my ideas don't make sense. All you do is repeat the same complaint over and over again.

I shown already to everyone who ever read this meaningless discussion.
IT is nonsense, both in-game and out-game. It was never ever a slightly plausible, it is nothing more than fan's delusion, based on forging of evidence.

You failed to proove anything being real. I cut a segment out between a moment of being knocked unconscious and one of awaking. You have no proof anything in the ending is real. You stated that it's real and demand I prove otherwise?

You've shown nothing.

0/10
You stated that it is not real - prove that.
You already lost that debate, when you stated that you cut out whatever you don't like.

[KingZayd]

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

I think you misunderstood. I crossed out stuff on the list that had happened. I deleted stuff that hadn't.
There was a space battle. But Team sword had not been wiped out. Where do you get that from?

I understood perfectly.
You just cutting everyhing from a game in such way, so it fit with your "theory". And then insert some headcanon, which fit your "theory".
There was ending, Catalyst and epilogues, after "Harbringer's beam". You just declared that all a dream, and inserted IT "explanation" instead.
Then, for some nonsensical reason, you decided not to cut "breath scene", which was also after "Harbringer's beam". Obviously, because it fits your "theory".

Then, there was desperate fleets assault of reapers in Earth's orbit. Reapers clearly outnumbers and outguns allied fleets, and allied fleets attacks them straight-on(without even basic fleet tactic).
Obviously, only plausible conjecture that they were obliterated, or lost most of their numbers and retreated.
Only way they would not be obliterated - if there was no fleet battle.

Question is - had they hold the space long enough, to Crucible to dock.

But, in your "theory", Shepard never got to the Citadel, and question is - Crucible arrived at the battle site, or not. If it is arrived, then it most probably destroyed.
So, we have battered or obliterated fleets, and probably lost crucible, and 100% casualties in Hammer ground forces.

So, we had no hope of conventionally defeating the reapers at the start of ME3, when there was most of the galaxy fleets intact.
And now we have battered or completely obliterated fleets, with even less than no hope of defeating reapers, and no chances to even get to the Citadel(also, reapers can just turn off relays any moment).

This is called defeat. Of course, there is always a Space Magic(=bad writing) to have a even more magical victory, sure.
But this would require even more crappy writing, that was presented in ME3.

Why would it have arrived? Shepard didn't reach the Citadel.

Watch game sequence. Crucible passed relay before Shepard started beam run.

What issues do you have with the breath scene being real. Do we have any reason to suspect it's not real?

You failed to prove anything being a dream. You just demonstrated that you cut content in whatever way you like.
You have no proof anything in the ending being a dream.
You stated that and demand that i prove otherwise? Pathetic.

I don't even believe in IT, and you can't show that my ideas don't make sense. All you do is repeat the same complaint over and over again.

I shown already to everyone who ever read this meaningless discussion.
IT is nonsense, both in-game and out-game. It was never ever a slightly plausible, it is nothing more than fan's delusion, based on forging of evidence.

You failed to proove anything being real. I cut a segment out between a moment of being knocked unconscious and one of awaking. You have no proof anything in the ending is real. You stated that it's real and demand I prove otherwise?

You've shown nothing.

0/10
You stated that it is not real - prove that.
You already lost that debate, when you stated that you cut out whatever you don't like.

0/10
You stated that it is real - prove that.
You already lost the debate.

Modifié par KingZayd, 20 novembre 2012 - 02:49 .