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#126
ld1449

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

magnetite wrote...

anorling wrote...

Whether or not asking for for the ending to the changed was realistic or not is irrelevant. The EC was still not what they asked for. So stop saying that that "Bioware listened to you". Because they didn't.


I got news for you buddy, the fans don't own the rights to the franchise. Bioware does. It's their game. You bought a license to use it "as is", similar to renting out something. I would like to refer you to the myth of ownership.Doesn't give people the right to change things. How many people here actually read the license agreement?

Some people figured out the ending with the clues in the game. Maybe you should try and do the same before asking what you're suggesting.



Mag, using the terms of use is not even an argument. Of course they own it. But they say the listen to fans, so why not show it? And many people, including me, "believe" IT but still are not satisfied because there is no closure.


Not to mention that it doesn't adress his statement at all.

He's saying that you should not claim that they listened, because they infact didn't. Who owns what, is irrelevant (which he also said beforehand) 

If your observational skills can't even formulate a response to the argument that is being made, not just the one that's in your head then what merit does your so called deduction of in-game clues really hold?

#127
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BansheeOwnage wrote...
Mag, using the terms of use is not even an argument. Of course they own it. But they say the listen to fans, so why not show it? And many people, including me, "believe" IT but still are not satisfied because there is no closure.


Closure happened before the ending though. Not during the final minutes. Some believed that the third game was one big epilogue where you got to say goodbye to everyone.

A 2 hour long epilogue showing off all our choices and such (similar to LOTR), didn't actually go over very well with that movie. A lot of people believed that isn't how to end a series. People say their choices didn't matter, and from everything I encountered, they did. Just not during the ending itself, but sometime during the course of the game.

Not to mention that it would break their budget.

They say the ending doesn't make sense, but they don't want to figure out why. Instead they just demand that it be redone or whatever.

I guess I just don't know what people want. The other thing is that, although there were 4 million people who bought this game, only a small portion are vocal about it. Usually companies listen to the majority, because that's where the money is.

Modifié par magnetite, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:32 .


#128
ld1449

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magnetite wrote...


They say the ending doesn't make sense, but they don't want to figure out why. Instead they just demand that it be redone or whatever.



Soooooo....Let me get this straight.

The ending doesn't make sense.

Why?

Bad Writing?

No there must be a deeper reason Why the ending doesn't make sense. It makes no sense so lets figure out why it doesn't make sense until it make sense...

This is the logic we're going with?

It makes no sense so there must be meaning?

#129
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ld1449 wrote...

Soooooo....Let me get this straight.

The ending doesn't make sense.

Why?

Bad Writing?

No there must be a deeper reason Why the ending doesn't make sense. It makes no sense so lets figure out why it doesn't make sense until it make sense...

This is the logic we're going with?

It makes no sense so there must be meaning?


Did you read the codex or anything? Some of the hints are in there.

Bad writing with what? The Starchild contradicting lore? Simple answer, he's lying to you and is not working in your best interest.

Anderson beating you to the console? I never saw Anderson run down the hill or TIM. Not to mention, the scene looks very surreal.

Shepard getting blown up on the Citadel, followed by waking up in a place that looks like Earth? He never left Earth. He's been there the whole time. The last 20 minutes aren't real.

Modifié par magnetite, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:39 .


#130
Clayless

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ld1449 wrote...

Putting your words in my mouth does not replace the meaning behind my own voice thank you very much.

YOU say that its the equivalent of not playing the entire trilogy.

Thing is, you did play through the entire trilogy, and as stated before and as shown in many Sci-fi itterations just because its a "dream" or a "simulation" does not mean that everything within would be fake. The people in there could be based off of real people, so could the system of government. In order for a "simulation" in Sci-fi, or an Illusion in fantasy to draw its captive into the dream world there must always be anchor points. People, places, common knowledge, even entire events.

So who's to say that because it was a simulation and Shepard Romanced Tali in it, he didn't actually romance her, outside of it. It opens up to an entirely new alternate reality within the context of the Mass Effect universe.

Long and short of it, the "Worse" ending, is better than what we currently have because not only does it open up to quite literally a whole new world, it also does so in a way that makes you look forward to what will be coming next.

"Damn. If that whole Reaper thing was their training simulator I wonder what they really have to face."

It does not *END* the universe of Mass Effect, which is what the ending does because for myself as well as many people we simply don't want to revisit it and arent looking forward to more. It Ends things and it does so in such a way you really don't feel the inclination to delve back in just to find more inconsistencies/stupidities.

So...no...I do not share your meaning of the word *Not caring* I care a great deal. And while mind you I am saying how this ending could actually be *better* better does not mean Good, which is what you people fail to comprehend.

Its still a stupid way to end the series but it is largely *better* than what we have. Which speaks volumes to the levels of sheer failure what we have actually is.

Almost anything would be considered "better" Even a cut to black ending when Shepard reaches the beam would be considered "better"


Nice backpedaling, you even have 3 paragraphs about that ending not being good and then you start quoting your own "better".

You also failed to answer the question.

If you find that ending better, one that means that everything you did never happened, it means you didn't care about anything. You didn't care about Garus on Omega, you didn't care about whether or not Wrex survived, you didn't care about Mordin's sacrifice, you didn't care about anything because an ending that made it so all of these things never happened is considered better than an ending that never did that, according to you.

So, if you don't care about the series, why do you care about the end of it? This time don't try and dance around the issue with hypotheticals that don't actually address it.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:40 .


#131
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In all honesty though, what would be your picture perfect kind of closure? I'd really like to know.

Modifié par magnetite, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:42 .


#132
ld1449

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magnetite wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Soooooo....Let me get this straight.

The ending doesn't make sense.

Why?

Bad Writing?

No there must be a deeper reason Why the ending doesn't make sense. It makes no sense so lets figure out why it doesn't make sense until it make sense...

This is the logic we're going with?

It makes no sense so there must be meaning?


Did you read the codex or anything? Some of the hints are in there.


I have read every single codex page.

Due to a lack of photographic memory however you'll have to point one or two out if you wish to demonstrate what qualifies as a clue.

But furthermore lets just put this up for the test.

You say that everything in the ending makes sense if you're just willing to look for it. Correct?

Then here's one of my biggest tripes with the ending itself.

Synthesis outright breaks all universe law.

In sci-fi stories there are generally Five tiers of civilization.

1-where we are, one plannet, multiple governments.

2- Global, which is to say One government over the whole world technology  in this brand of sci-fi is, by and large, Pseudo-science, things that we could feasibly see happening some point within the next 100 years,  something like...some of batmans gadgets

3- Colonial where we have the home planet and outlying colonies (Halo fits this niche nicely)

4- Galactic, Star Wars. The level of technology here varies from universe  to universe but is generally very advanced but still more or less  limited by the basic known laws of physics.

5- Universal- genres  that span multiple galaxies. This one is hardly seen because largely, One galaxy is big enough for a story and the level of technology to feasibly control multiple galaxies is nothing shy of pure magic.

Mass Effect would fall under tier 4.

Synthesis falls under tier five.

Synthesis changes every organic being in the galaxy (even plant life) to being a synthetic, organic hybrid.

There are 200-400 billion stars in our galaxy. Lets meet in the middle and say 300 billion.

If even 1/100th of those starts have habitable planets

That is still 3 billion habitable plannets.

Earth, today has more than 7 billion PEOPLE nevermind plant and animal life, PEOPLE.

Lets round it off and put every planet at 10,billion population, plant, animal and sapient. And this is me being NICE because its very likely up in the 20 or 30 billion populous.

3 billion times 10 billion. We don't even have digits that go that high.

And the Crucible, something labeled a POWER source changes each and every  single one of these things down to the cellular level, in an EYE-BLINK

Cellular level.

There are TRILLIONS of cells just in you and me alone. Now multiply 3  billion planets, by 10,billion people and multiply THAT by at least 1,trillion cells for  every single individual.

Its incalculable. We don't have numbers that go that high.

The logistics of Synthesis, is mind numbing.

To affect everything in the galaxy to this degree with a POWERSOURCE is a complete break of in-universe law.

Furthermore the crucible was created by organic races. Organic races that are less advanced than the reapers. Organic races that were killed by the reapers because they were less advanced than them and thus, could not win.

Reapers do not have the level of technology Synthesis would require.

How in the hell do these dystopian species all conglamarating the crucible together like a jigsaw puzzle mannage to pull this off.

Modifié par ld1449, 19 novembre 2012 - 09:45 .


#133
Peranor

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magnetite wrote...

anorling wrote...

Whether or not asking for for the ending to the changed was realistic or not is irrelevant. The EC was still not what they asked for. So stop saying that that "Bioware listened to you". Because they didn't.


I got news for you buddy, the fans don't own the rights to the franchise. Bioware does. It's their game. You bought a license to use it "as is", similar to renting out something. I would like to refer you to the myth of ownership.Doesn't give people the right to change things. How many people here actually read the license agreement?

Some people figured out the ending with the clues in the game. Maybe you should try and do the same before asking what you're suggesting.

Otherwise, this game may a bit too complicated for you. Mass Effect has never been a mindless trilogy. It is one that is particularly thought provoking, especially the ending of Mass Effect 3.




Did you even read what I said?

#134
Spatchmo

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It is kind of funny, people are commenting on this mod about how it is everything they wanted from the ending and it makes them want to replay the game:



A fan took resources that were in the game and spliced together a more resolute ending that made people happy. With all of its resources, and for whatever reason, Bioware was adamant on keeping its lore breaking deus ex machina, when fixing it would have been so simple.

#135
goofyomnivore

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People jokingly said things like 'Shepard wakes up on the Normandy after Eden Prime' would be the worst ending possible. Although 'random god like figure appears out of no where and explains all and everything' wasn't far behind it on the 'do not want' scale for a lot of people.

If it were me I would of had the Crucible do one thing only (Destroy or Synthesis), and the post war world would be more about what choices you made throughout the games rather than the world being dictated by the short interaction between the Catalyst and Shepard.

#136
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anorling wrote...

Did you even read what I said?


I got the jist of it. You asked for more closure, they delivered the EC. You didn't like it, so you're going to ask for them to make another one. Honestly, businesses aren't made of money. They only have so much money to work with. If they spent all their money on making all the Mass Effect fans happy with a really amazing ending, they wouldn't have any money for other projects they are working on. Then, say the Dragon Age fans might come up short, because their budget doesnt have enough money because it was spent on making all the Mass Effect fans happy.

I guess I'm just looking at it from a business standpoint, rather than a "want list".

There has been many movies and such with mediocre endings throughout history, but people never asked for the director to reshoot a certain part because they didn't like how it ended up. What right do people have to do that? What makes Mass Effect 3 so different? If a guy wants to tell a story, that's his story. You are merely the audience to observe, they are the creator of the artwork.

I wouldn't want to see a day where it's "common place" for people to reshoot endings and such because a certain crowd didn't like how it all ended up. The first thing someone does is defend their work, not to cave into the demands of the few.

Modifié par magnetite, 19 novembre 2012 - 09:02 .


#137
ld1449

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Our_Last_Scene wrote...


Nice backpedaling, you even have 3 paragraphs about that ending not being good and then you start quoting your own "better".

You also failed to answer the question.

If you find that ending better, one that means that everything you did never happened, it means you didn't care about anything. You didn't care about Garus on Omega, you didn't care about whether or not Wrex survived, you didn't care about Mordin's sacrifice, you didn't care about anything because an ending that made it so all of these things never happened is considered better than an ending that never did that, according to you.

So, if you don't care about the series, why do you care about the end of it? This time don't try and dance around the issue with hypotheticals that don't actually address it.


Oh? Did I backpedal?

I seem to recall stating this:

"Better does not equal good

What we got in the original ending was so bad putrid roadkill outside of my room would have been "better"

In response to the Mad Hannar back on page 1 before you ever joined this conversation.

And as Gamestop once said "Its not the destination. Its the journey"

To you. You're happy with the destination. So of course me prefering that it never happens must mean I just dont care. Because you care.

To me, the destination sucks, so the journey is already largely invalidated.

So if you need me to spell it out for you?

With this scenario, I have nothing to really loose since the Journey is ruined for me anyway and everything to gain since chances are they wont ****up this badly again.

Just because I dont share your love of this particular journey doesn't mean I don't care about the Characters or the universe thereign. Even if events must be entirely reimagined I'll take my chances rolling the dice than be stuck with the mess you're happy with.

Clear enough for you:)

#138
Peranor

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magnetite wrote...

anorling wrote...

Did you even read what I said?


I got the jist of it. You asked for more closure, they delivered the EC. You didn't like it, so you're going to ask for them to make another one. Honestly, businesses aren't made of money. They only have so much money to work with. If they spent all their money on making all the Mass Effect fans happy with a really amazing ending, they wouldn't have any money for other projects they are working on. Then, say the Dragon Age fans might come up short, because their budget doesnt have enough money because it was spent on making all the Mass Effect fans happy.

I guess I'm just looking at it from a business standpoint, rather than a "want list".



Ok... So you didn't read it. Or you read it and just didn't understand it.
I'll just quote myself so you get the chance to read it again so you might understand it. Protip: the hints are in there

anorling wrote...


It's funny you know. When the EC was announced and BW published the FAQ explaining what the EC would and wouldn't do many many people said that this was not what they asked for. They wanted the ending changed, not expanded upon. And then those people continued on to say that now some smug people will just take to opportunity to say "Look they gave you what you asked for, and you're still not happy. There's just no way pleasing you people"
And here you are, confirming just that.


Whether or not asking for for the ending to the changed was realistic or not is irrelevant. The EC was still not what they asked for. So stop saying that that "Bioware listened to you". Because they didn't.


Modifié par anorling, 19 novembre 2012 - 09:02 .


#139
ld1449

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magnetite wrote...

anorling wrote...

Did you even read what I said?


I got the jist of it. You asked for more closure, they delivered the EC. You didn't like it, so you're going to ask for them to make another one. Honestly, businesses aren't made of money. They only have so much money to work with. If they spent all their money on making all the Mass Effect fans happy with a really amazing ending, they wouldn't have any money for other projects they are working on. Then, say the Dragon Age fans might come up short, because their budget doesnt have enough money because it was spent on making all the Mass Effect fans happy.

I guess I'm just looking at it from a business standpoint, rather than a "want list".

There has been many movies and such with mediocre endings throughout history, but people never asked for the director to reshoot a certain part because they didn't like how it ended up. What right do people have to do that? What makes Mass Effect 3 so different? If a guy wants to tell a story, that's his story. You are merely the audience to observe, they are the creator of the artwork.




Or you're looking at it from a standpoint that requires glasses...that's not what he said at all.

Furthermore for someone who claims to know buisness you're certainly not showing it. Any buisness worth its salt has an "emergency reserve" to say the least just incase they have to fork over extra. Do you think that whenever a car company has to recall their vehicles they simply take out their finite, spread thin cash from other projects/car designs to clean up the mess?

They'll be in buisness a very short time if that's the case.

Furthermore what makes Mass Effect 3 so different is the simple fact that it CAN be fixed. When a movie is out, its OUT, the actors, the workers the screenwriters the directors they all went back home and to work on other projects MONTHS before the thing was ever released onto cinemas.

Whereas the team still works on the game for months after its released.

People do not spend 40 plus hours watching their movie either.

Nor can the flims be altered with "DLC" either.

And as "immutable" as you seem to think the intent of the creator is, the endings to movies are changed all the time based on feedback from focus groups the movie is given to before its released.

And authors change things in their work (already released work) all the time.

Sir Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes and after TEN YEARS of petitions from his fans he brought him back, creating arguably the best books of his entire series. And he even flat out admitted that he never would have brought Sherlock Back if not for the tenacity of his audience.

Modifié par ld1449, 19 novembre 2012 - 09:08 .


#140
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anorling wrote...
Ok... So you didn't read it. Or you read it and just didn't understand it.
I'll just quote myself so you get the chance to read it again so you might understand it. Protip: the hints are in there


Yep, and the hints to explain the ending are in the game if you were paying attention. I know you want a new ending, I got that the first time, but it's not going to happen. Case closed. They've said before, they aren't going to do it, but people don't get it.

Some things in life don't always work out the way we wanted to. Maybe one day you'll understand that.

And as "immutable" as you seem to think the intent of the creator is,
the endings to movies are changed all the time based on feedback from
focus groups the movie is given to before its released.


Feedback, that is constructive. A complete rewrite is not constructive.

Modifié par magnetite, 19 novembre 2012 - 09:09 .


#141
ld1449

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magnetite wrote...

anorling wrote...
Ok... So you didn't read it. Or you read it and just didn't understand it.
I'll just quote myself so you get the chance to read it again so you might understand it. Protip: the hints are in there


Yep, and the hints to explain the ending are in the game if you were paying attention. I know you want a new ending, I got that the first time, but it's not going to happen. Case closed. They've said before, they aren't going to do it, but people don't get it.

Some things in life don't always work out the way we wanted to. Maybe one day you'll understand that.


Maybe one day you'll learn to comprehend

#142
Peranor

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magnetite wrote...

anorling wrote...
Ok... So you didn't read it. Or you read it and just didn't understand it.
I'll just quote myself so you get the chance to read it again so you might understand it. Protip: the hints are in there


Yep, and the hints to explain the ending are in the game if you were paying attention. I know you want a new ending, I got that the first time, but it's not going to happen. Case closed. They've said before, they aren't going to do it, but people don't get it.

Some things in life don't always work out the way we wanted to. Maybe one day you'll understand that.


You're just being asinine on purpose now are you?

#143
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ld1449 wrote...

Maybe one day you'll learn to comprehend


I already comprehend the ending, there's nothing wrong with it. Maybe you should do the same.

#144
ld1449

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magnetite wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Maybe one day you'll learn to comprehend


I already comprehend the ending, there's nothing wrong with it. Maybe you should do the same.


....

You know what...I think I rest my case with that.

#145
ld1449

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anorling wrote...



You're just being asinine on purpose now are you?


Seival, Dreman, Goldrush, Brovik, Protoss...

Based on the pro enders track record, you really wanna risk putting faith in the fact that he's faking it and is not just genuinely this obtuse?

#146
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ld1449 wrote...

anorling wrote...



You're just being asinine on purpose now are you?


Seival, Dreman, Goldrush, Brovik, Protoss...

Based on the pro enders track record, you really wanna risk putting faith in the fact that he's faking it and is not just genuinely this obtuse?



I'd rather not... speculate about that Image IPB

#147
Applepie_Svk

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magnetite wrote...

anorling wrote...
Ok... So you didn't read it. Or you read it and just didn't understand it.
I'll just quote myself so you get the chance to read it again so you might understand it. Protip: the hints are in there


Yep, and the hints to explain the ending are in the game if you were paying attention. I know you want a new ending, I got that the first time, but it's not going to happen. Case closed. They've said before, they aren't going to do it, but people don't get it.

Some things in life don't always work out the way we wanted to. Maybe one day you'll understand that.

And as "immutable" as you seem to think the intent of the creator is,
the endings to movies are changed all the time based on feedback from
focus groups the movie is given to before its released.


Feedback, that is constructive. A complete rewrite is not constructive.


Image IPB

I see that you are IT supporter, so I don´t understand how can be someone as IT supporter sattisfied with EC ?
Original ending was without IT nothing than one big derp piece of crap in literal view, if you look thru IT than it start making sense, yet EC doing everything but not proving neither disproving IT. 

Games aren´t kind of media for some philosophic debates with cliffhanger endings /double for end of trilogy/, if you liked IT for it´s idea then ok I get it, but one thing which I don´t like about IT is the fact if Shepard woke up from rubbles then what ? Uh ... stargazer ? My sweet ? It´s simply disgusting...

Look how fart out EC, I never asked for expanding of nonsense, I wished only rational explanation - instead I got derpception of bad endings and it´s irony, because here I thought that they can´t screw more than they did.

If you believe that IT is true /I wish it was/ than there is no ending after all, there is big pile of nonsense and till IT is proved it´s nothing more than wishful thinking.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 19 novembre 2012 - 09:24 .


#148
Zaalbar

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I have to admit, having an ending where Shepard steps out of a simulator being told that the last 5 years was just a virtual world and all the people he ever met including the LI are nothing more then virtual characters would have been the single most disappointing ending ever.

I hated the endings as much as the next person but everything that came before it was great IMO, to have it all reduced to a virtual world of events that never happened just would have made the whole trilogy pointless and a waste of time.

Modifié par zaalbar76, 19 novembre 2012 - 09:25 .


#149
ld1449

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magnetite wrote...


And as "immutable" as you seem to think the intent of the creator is,
the endings to movies are changed all the time based on feedback from
focus groups the movie is given to before its released.


Feedback, that is constructive. A complete rewrite is not constructive.


And may I ask, who the hell are you to say what is or is not constructive?

Are you an authority in literature?

In Ethics?

In case you didn't know, rewrites and retcons are done all day, every day in every form of literature, both in those already released and those still in production. So please get off the ignorance wagon and actually study on a subject before you hold your assumptions as the law of the land.

What exactly gives you the ability to label something as an absolute? Simply because you believe so?

#150
Applepie_Svk

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ld1449 wrote...


And may I ask, who the hell are you to say what is or is not constructive?

Are you an authority in literature?

In Ethics?

In case you didn't know, rewrites and retcons are done all day, every day in every form of literature, both in those already released and those still in production. So please get off the ignorance wagon and actually study on a subject before you hold your assumptions as the law of the land.

What exactly gives you the ability to label something as an absolute? Simply because you believe so?


Yeah, pretty much ... ME3 is full of them...