393 réponses à ce sujet

[DoomsdayDevice]

Steelcan wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I really wish I could get behind IT. But I don't think BioWare is A. That clever, or B. if it was true then EC wouldn't have been so clearly biased towards a literal interpretation.

But it works great in my headcanon

Reminds me of that game where the mind-controlling villain at the end shows you an illusion, and if you buy into it, credits will roll as if you beat the game, but in fact you end up being a slave of the mind controllers. When you reject this false reality, you get to fight the bad guy for the real ending.

Ah yes, Neverwinter Nights 2, Hordes of the Underdark.

Who made that game again? Bioware you say? Surely they could never be that clever!

Then why would they pull the same thing twice?  People would say it was a chep fall back onto something they previously did.  And ive never played or even heard of that game. 

And that does not answer my second point.

Well, for your second point:

- They could be keeping up appearances with the EC because it is their artistic vision to keep things ambiguous and let people figure it out for themselves.
- If they revealed it right there and then with the EC, nobody would have been properly indoctrinated.
- EC doesn't favout the literal interpretation as much as you think:

1. They added Major Coats on the Citadel, in the scene with the Keeper taking off the helmet. He really shouldn't be there. They could have easily used another model of a soldier without a helmet/cap/hat. (There are models like that in the game)
2. The sound effect that plays when Shepard zaps out of the beam onto the Citadel, is the exact same sound effect that plays when Shepard goes in and out of the mind control in Leviathan.
3. The soldier fighting in the streets in the ending, in control and synthesis it's the same scene: a husk throws himself upon the soldier, and he's about to die. He's losing. In destroy, the soldier shoots the husk. And another. And another. He's winning.

It's subtle, I know.

Leviathan is less subtle though.

Hey guys! Here's a mind control scene that looks exactly like the beginning of the decision chamber! Trollolol.
Hey guys! Leviathans can make pretty pictures from your memories, all Reapers can do this, in fact they have perfected this technique over millions of years!

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 19 novembre 2012 - 02:51 .

[Ithurael]

OP the mere fact that you have to say "it's not that bad" means it is that bad

[Laforgus]

arial wrote...

 people here always say the endings are the worst thing in gaming hsitory,  although I highly disagree (I can think of a few games from the mid-late 90s that were worse), it could have been way worse.

Mickey Mouse and Castle of Illusion?

People have to understand something, THAT is the ending, and there is nothing else to go around it, they seems good to me on the conclusion.

But i hate that you can choose betwen them at the end like the Deus EX and IW. it doesnt matter what you do, you get all endings.

Modifié par Laforgus, 19 novembre 2012 - 03:05 .

[FlyingSquirrel]

The first time I played ME3, I knew nothing about the ending other than that a lot of people said it was bad. And for a second, after TIM dies and Shepard is looking at the view of Earth, I thought the game was going to end right there without telling us what happens when the Crucible activates. That, I think, would have definitely been worse than any of the original or EC endings.

[ld1449]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Someone playing a game generally understands that it's not real anyway. The experience was still there and the plot still made sense. 

Preferring the alternate ending arial suggested is not the same as liking it.

One could as easily say that because you like the ending that makes the Mass Effect universe ridiculously stupid, means that you don't really care about the series and therefore are not qualified to comment.

When arial tried to create a worse ending than what we got and FAILED, that shows just how bad this ending was. I'm sure that if she tried again, they could do it. But the point is, it'd be so difficult to make a worse ending without trying.

Nice try but opinions on the ending isn't what I care about, which is why I'm not asking about a subjective view on whether or not he likes the current endings, nor have I said mine in this thread.

Fact is that ending does, regardless of opinion, make the entire serious pointless. That's not an opinion, I can't stress that enough. That ending that makes it so nothing in the entire series ever happened.

Saying that ending is better, an ending that makes it so everything in the entire series was pointless regardless of opinion, means he doesn't care about the series.

That is an opinion. Yours. Guess what. I don't share it *gasp what a shock this must be* Your ending makes it so I wish nothing in the series ever hapened, Arials ending makes it so I can look forward to what would hapen next. Big difference.

And two can play this game. Saying the star brat is good, which invalidates a good chunk of Mass Effect's general plot and leaves you with one of the most asinine outcomes that could be thought up  means you don't care about the series yourself. Boo hoo.

[D1ck1e]

I'm not saying it's the worst in history. I'm saying that I subjectively find it's the worst I ever played.

[thefallen2far]

magnetite wrote...

Kids today are pretty spoiled. Back when I was growing up, this was a traditional ending.

What was wrong with that ending? Conflict was to kill the dragon and save the princess. He did that. It's not like they abandoned the direction fo a twist ending that tries to justify the dragon with the dumbest logic I've ever heard and then acknowledge that saving the princess is actually a neccessary evil, so he's going togive him the choice of killing all mythical beings, controlling all the dragons like the main dragon ormerge all dragons and people into aquasi dragon-like people. And if you don't like it and try to kill him, you get a picture of the dragon giving you the middle finger and saying, "you dn't like my ending? We'll forget you, yousuck!"

[Clayless]

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Nice try but opinions on the ending isn't what I care about, which is why I'm not asking about a subjective view on whether or not he likes the current endings, nor have I said mine in this thread.

Fact is that ending does, regardless of opinion, make the entire serious pointless. That's not an opinion, I can't stress that enough. That ending that makes it so nothing in the entire series ever happened.

Saying that ending is better, an ending that makes it so everything in the entire series was pointless regardless of opinion, means he doesn't care about the series.

That is an opinion. Yours. Guess what. I don't share it *gasp what a shock this must be* Your ending makes it so I wish nothing in the series ever hapened, Arials ending makes it so I can look forward to what would hapen next. Big difference.

And two can play this game. Saying the star brat is good, which invalidates a good chunk of Mass Effect's general plot and leaves you with one of the most asinine outcomes that could be thought up  means you don't care about the series yourself. Boo hoo.

So lets be clear on what an opinion is, lets break this down slowly:

At the end it's revealed that nothing in the series happened.

Does this make everything you did in the 3 games pointless, yes or no?

[KingZayd]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Nice try but opinions on the ending isn't what I care about, which is why I'm not asking about a subjective view on whether or not he likes the current endings, nor have I said mine in this thread.

Fact is that ending does, regardless of opinion, make the entire serious pointless. That's not an opinion, I can't stress that enough. That ending that makes it so nothing in the entire series ever happened.

Saying that ending is better, an ending that makes it so everything in the entire series was pointless regardless of opinion, means he doesn't care about the series.

That is an opinion. Yours. Guess what. I don't share it *gasp what a shock this must be* Your ending makes it so I wish nothing in the series ever hapened, Arials ending makes it so I can look forward to what would hapen next. Big difference.

And two can play this game. Saying the star brat is good, which invalidates a good chunk of Mass Effect's general plot and leaves you with one of the most asinine outcomes that could be thought up  means you don't care about the series yourself. Boo hoo.

So lets be clear on what an opinion is, lets break this down slowly:

At the end it's revealed that nothing in the series happened.

Does this make everything you did in the 3 games pointless, yes or no?

Nothing in the series happened anyway. You seem to be struggling with the concept of fiction. What does it matter if a good piece of fiction is contained in another fictional universe?

[Clayless]

KingZayd wrote...

Nothing in the series happened anyway. You seem to be struggling with the concept of fiction. What does it matter if a good piece of fiction is contained in another fictional universe?

Didn't Bart Simpson say something like this?

Comic Book Guy: That was an imaginary story dreamed up by Jimmy Olsen after Supergirl's horse Comet kicked him in the head. It never really happened.
Bart Simpson: Hey, none of this stuff ever really happened.

Congratulations, you watched the Simpsons 5 years ago and thought you were original.

[KingZayd]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Nothing in the series happened anyway. You seem to be struggling with the concept of fiction. What does it matter if a good piece of fiction is contained in another fictional universe?

Didn't Bart Simpson say something like this?

Comic Book Guy: That was an imaginary story dreamed up by Jimmy Olsen after Supergirl's horse Comet kicked him in the head. It never really happened.
Bart Simpson: Hey, none of this stuff ever really happened.

Congratulations, you watched the Simpsons 5 years ago and thought you were original.

A)The fact that someone else said something similar does not make my point any less valid.
I stopped watching the Simpsons more than 5 years ago.

[Clayless]

KingZayd wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Nothing in the series happened anyway. You seem to be struggling with the concept of fiction. What does it matter if a good piece of fiction is contained in another fictional universe?

Didn't Bart Simpson say something like this?

Comic Book Guy: That was an imaginary story dreamed up by Jimmy Olsen after Supergirl's horse Comet kicked him in the head. It never really happened.
Bart Simpson: Hey, none of this stuff ever really happened.

Congratulations, you watched the Simpsons 5 years ago and thought you were original.

A)The fact that someone else said something similar does not make my point any less valid.
I stopped watching the Simpsons more than 5 years ago.

That's what I like to call backpedaling. It's fun catching people red handed, especially when there's even a link to the very thing they said lol. Hey you're right, none of this stuff ever really happened, I guess that means you win everything.

Anyway, now that you've beaten me by winning everything, I'm going to stick to having a conversation with people that I'm actually talking to and who don't try to use old Simpsons jokes in an attempt to make them appear intelligent. Please respond to this as you see fit, even call me names again if you want, but this will be the last time I respond until you actually post something of substance.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:55 .

[KingZayd]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Nothing in the series happened anyway. You seem to be struggling with the concept of fiction. What does it matter if a good piece of fiction is contained in another fictional universe?

Didn't Bart Simpson say something like this?

Comic Book Guy: That was an imaginary story dreamed up by Jimmy Olsen after Supergirl's horse Comet kicked him in the head. It never really happened.
Bart Simpson: Hey, none of this stuff ever really happened.

Congratulations, you watched the Simpsons 5 years ago and thought you were original.

A)The fact that someone else said something similar does not make my point any less valid.
I stopped watching the Simpsons more than 5 years ago.

That's what I like to call backpedaling. It's fun catching people red handed, especially when there's even a link to the very thing they said lol. Hey you're right, none of this stuff ever really happened, I guess that means you win everything.

Anyway, now that you've beaten me by winning everything, I'm going to stick to having a conversation with people that I'm actually talking to and who don't try to use old Simpsons jokes in an attempt to make them appear intelligent. Please respond to this as you see fit, even call me names again if you want, but this will be the last time I respond until you actually post something of substance.

LOL. Because only Matt Groening can distinguish between ficiton and reality?

I don't think there's any need for me to call you any other names. The one I used previously was obviously correct.

And for the record, I stopped watching The Simpsons within one or two years of them moving from the BBC to Channel 4. Which would make it closer to  10 years ago.

Modifié par KingZayd, 19 novembre 2012 - 05:04 .

[tanisha__unknown]

OP: I think it's pretty much on par with what we got Pre-EC.

[ld1449]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Nice try but opinions on the ending isn't what I care about, which is why I'm not asking about a subjective view on whether or not he likes the current endings, nor have I said mine in this thread.

Fact is that ending does, regardless of opinion, make the entire serious pointless. That's not an opinion, I can't stress that enough. That ending that makes it so nothing in the entire series ever happened.

Saying that ending is better, an ending that makes it so everything in the entire series was pointless regardless of opinion, means he doesn't care about the series.

That is an opinion. Yours. Guess what. I don't share it *gasp what a shock this must be* Your ending makes it so I wish nothing in the series ever hapened, Arials ending makes it so I can look forward to what would hapen next. Big difference.

And two can play this game. Saying the star brat is good, which invalidates a good chunk of Mass Effect's general plot and leaves you with one of the most asinine outcomes that could be thought up  means you don't care about the series yourself. Boo hoo.

So lets be clear on what an opinion is, lets break this down slowly:

At the end it's revealed that nothing in the series happened.

Does this make everything you did in the 3 games pointless, yes or no?

Opinion: Current ending does not invalidate the existing games.

Opinion: It does.

Opinion: Hypothetical ending invalidates three games.

Opinion: It does not due to XYZ reason that I've already mentioned in previous posts to other users.

And so on and so forth

Lets put this into context since you've convinced yourself that you're right and I must simply not care.

Say you have a loved one that's gonna be a vegetable laying in a hospital bed for the rest of his days.

You have a choice, leaving him there or pulling the plug.

One says pull the plug to leave him at peace, one says keep him alive because its wrong to kill him.

Do any of these people care any less than the other?

No.

You'd rather leave him a vegetable, I'd rather pull the plug, (or vice versa)

As I said before, to me, the ending as is already destroys the universe and makes all things done or not done thereign, meaningless.  To you, it does not.

So to me, this is no different save that it gives me the ability to look forward to whatever might hapen next.

Nothing to loose/everything to gain.

Ergo-Better ending.

And if you STILL don't get it, then I'd say we're done here

[ld1449]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Nothing in the series happened anyway. You seem to be struggling with the concept of fiction. What does it matter if a good piece of fiction is contained in another fictional universe?

Didn't Bart Simpson say something like this?

Comic Book Guy: That was an imaginary story dreamed up by Jimmy Olsen after Supergirl's horse Comet kicked him in the head. It never really happened.
Bart Simpson: Hey, none of this stuff ever really happened.

Congratulations, you watched the Simpsons 5 years ago and thought you were original.

A)The fact that someone else said something similar does not make my point any less valid.
I stopped watching the Simpsons more than 5 years ago.

That's what I like to call backpedaling. It's fun catching people red handed, especially when there's even a link to the very thing they said lol. Hey you're right, none of this stuff ever really happened, I guess that means you win everything.

Anyway, now that you've beaten me by winning everything, I'm going to stick to having a conversation with people that I'm actually talking to and who don't try to use old Simpsons jokes in an attempt to make them appear intelligent. Please respond to this as you see fit, even call me names again if you want, but this will be the last time I respond until you actually post something of substance.

Considering you *ahem* "caught" me "backpedalling" as well I'd have to wonder if you know the meaning of the word.

He's answering your accusation. Not recanting his position. Infact, he's reafirming his position. Please get a grasp of the english language before you misuse it.

Modifié par ld1449, 19 novembre 2012 - 05:52 .

[Robhuzz]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...


Reminds me of that game where the mind-controlling villain at the end shows you an illusion, and if you buy into it, credits will roll as if you beat the game, but in fact you end up being a slave of the mind controllers. When you reject this false reality, you get to fight the bad guy for the real ending.

Ah yes, Neverwinter Nights 2, Hordes of the Underdark.

Who made that game again? Bioware you say? Surely they could never be that clever!

You act as if current day Bioware is the same as the one that made NWN2? If only. BioWare has lost a lot of talent over the years, people that quit because they didn't like the direction the studio was taking, people that were put on a different team then quit alltogether. Also, BioWare used to make games because they were passionate about it, like any small studio that's proud of their work. That was before they became EA puppets that make games only for the money.

The bioware of old is long dead. DA2 and ME3 were proof of that.

[fil009]

What terrible logic OP.

[Robhuzz]

magnetite wrote...

You act as if current day Bioware is the same as the one that made NWN2? If only. BioWare has lost a lot of talent over the years, people that quit because they didn't like the direction the studio was taking, people that were put on a different team then quit alltogether. Also, BioWare used to make games because they were passionate about it, like any small studio that's proud of their work. That was before they became EA puppets that make games only for the money.

The bioware of old is long dead. DA2 and ME3 were proof of that.

If they are long dead, why are you using their forums and their resources to talk about their games that you still play and support?

You call yourself a fan, but you sure go out of your way to talk negatively about their games.

Should I not? Their last couple of games were huge letdowns, plain and simple. Not even a shadow of what they were once capable of producing. And we all knew it was coming back in '07 but let's not get into that now. Should I just sit quietly and keep buying their games even though I do not agree with the direction they're taking? Should I just leave and ignore their games from now on? If so, what are these forums for if not for discussing bioware's games, either positive or negative?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

What is scary is that if ME3 wins GOTY is that it will set the standard for endings of video games for years to come. Boss fights at the end will be too videogamey. Games will from then on all have a version of glowboy and three choices containing horrible moral dilemmas. That era will last so long that we will dream of the days of the shallow ending with the Michael Bay explosions.

IMO, Bioware needed to use indoctrination theory intentionally. I don't think they did. I think it is a fan created theory that evolved out of bad writing theory, artistic laziness theory, and marmalade theory (how reapers came into being). What I find fascinating is that Bioware actually ended up indoctrinating a bunch of players into defending the two worst outcomes (IMO), whether that was intentional or not I do not have facts to back that up. It is a conspiracy.

[Maxster_]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

magnetite wrote...

anorling wrote...
Ok... So you didn't read it. Or you read it and just didn't understand it.
I'll just quote myself so you get the chance to read it again so you might understand it. Protip: the hints are in there

Yep, and the hints to explain the ending are in the game if you were paying attention. I know you want a new ending, I got that the first time, but it's not going to happen. Case closed. They've said before, they aren't going to do it, but people don't get it.

Some things in life don't always work out the way we wanted to. Maybe one day you'll understand that.

And as "immutable" as you seem to think the intent of the creator is,
the endings to movies are changed all the time based on feedback from
focus groups the movie is given to before its released.

Feedback, that is constructive. A complete rewrite is not constructive.

I see that you are IT supporter, so I don´t understand how can be someone as IT supporter sattisfied with EC ?
Original ending was without IT nothing than one big derp piece of crap in literal view, if you look thru IT than it start making sense, yet EC doing everything but not proving neither disproving IT. 

Games aren´t kind of media for some philosophic debates with cliffhanger endings /double for end of trilogy/, if you liked IT for it´s idea then ok I get it, but one thing which I don´t like about IT is the fact if Shepard woke up from rubbles then what ? Uh ... stargazer ? My sweet ? It´s simply disgusting...

Look how fart out EC, I never asked for expanding of nonsense, I wished only rational explanation - instead I got derpception of bad endings and it´s irony, because here I thought that they can´t screw more than they did.

If you believe that IT is true /I wish it was/ than there is no ending after all, there is big pile of nonsense and till IT is proved it´s nothing more than wishful thinking.

IT will never be disproved. And of course, it will never be proved.
EA is not crazy, to purposedly release game without ending. And they will not alienate their most active supporters -  ITers(=pro-enders).
And IT is not a theory, it is just a fanfiction, even worse than EAWare's ME3 story. It fixes nothing, just adds more nonsense.

Modifié par Maxster_, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:36 .

[Maxster_]

Archonsg wrote...

There is no Indoctrination Theory.
There is no Puzzle Theory.
The ending we got originally was as intended.

Bioware fracked up.
It is that simple.

It took several months for the EC to be released, using mostly cut material. Those who saw leaked footage would recognize them.

The EC was PR damage control.
It did its job.
And proved that if you sugar coat crap and removed the smell, you can convince people that its no longer crap.

Bad Writing Theory. With actual proof, not like piles of unplausible baseless conjectures.

[Maxster_]

magnetite wrote...

You act as if current day Bioware is the same as the one that made NWN2? If only. BioWare has lost a lot of talent over the years, people that quit because they didn't like the direction the studio was taking, people that were put on a different team then quit alltogether. Also, BioWare used to make games because they were passionate about it, like any small studio that's proud of their work. That was before they became EA puppets that make games only for the money.

The bioware of old is long dead. DA2 and ME3 were proof of that.

If they are long dead, why are you using their forums and their resources to talk about their games that you still play and support?

You call yourself a fan, but you sure go out of your way to talk negatively about their games.

Said like true EAWare defender. Catalyst approves that.