418 réponses à ce sujet

[MilspecHazard]

Hanar! Nuff said...

[LeandroBraz]

There's some kind of bug on BSN. It's saying this 6 month old thread was created 2 hours ago, weird...

[P_sutherland]

Father Superior wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Father Superior wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

god_savant wrote...

I thought lore cohesion went out the window the moment Platinum difficulty was conceived.

Protheans could be cool, although I don't know what would be unique about their race.

Nothing.

They have that "I can touch you and learn everything about you!" deal, but that's impossible to incorporate into gameplay. Beyond that they're just another playable race... oh wait, no they're not.

You're making the assumption that Bioware wouldn't attempt to make them unique,. which you have no evidence to support. If Bioware makes Protheans, which they clearly could, they could undoubtedly make them unique from other races, whether through new powers or racial traits.

If we're going to make assumptions and claim them as fact, then I assume that Protheans would receive a racial trait similar to Krogan Rage that gives them an Area Scan-esque effect for themselves every time they kill an enemy with a heavy melee. Not only does that make your narrow-minded assumption that Bioware can't incorporate the Prothean sensory ability into gameplay invalid, now they're also unique.

And you're assuming that they couldn't just do the same for races that aren't dead. Hey-oh!

Where did I say that Protheans would be the only possible race that this could work for? Bioware could put this on another race. I can't conceive of another race that this would be appropriate for, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a possibility. I'm just giving a single possibility that would make sense on a Prothean and could make Protheans unique from other races. There are plenty of other ideas floating around that could be applied to them, I just picked one that I had considered. Your attempt at putting words in my mouth is astoundingly petty and childish, to say the least.

In said scenerio it would most likely be for whatever species thought it up... and had the technology to spare to do so. (IE Human clones etc)

[Queen Ultima]

P_sutherland wrote...



I think it would be easier and cheaper to build mechs.

Maybe. But aside from the fact that Mechs could probably be taken over by Reaper code, they're dumb VIs, not even full AIs. Mechs are helpful as foot soldiers, maybe, but there's no replacement for a soldier of flesh and blood. Also, remember the planet in 2 that was turning out fresh Krogen soldiers every 7 days (roughly same as Earth days). Flash-grown, easy to teach via touch and a cultural excuse to get over Citadel laws, they seem ideal to me. One last thing, the people making mechs would be different to people with the ability to clone, although the "buyer" I suppose would be the same. Who knows, maybe Sirta or whoever makes Medi-Gel would make it near free of charge if they cut corners.

As for the Shepard killing Reapers comment, I'm nurture over nature. I doubt Shep would have any inherent ability to kill Reapers, and besides, Human cloning probably wouldn't get very far.

[Beta Commando]

Father Superior wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Father Superior wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

god_savant wrote...

I thought lore cohesion went out the window the moment Platinum difficulty was conceived.

Protheans could be cool, although I don't know what would be unique about their race.

Nothing.

They have that "I can touch you and learn everything about you!" deal, but that's impossible to incorporate into gameplay. Beyond that they're just another playable race... oh wait, no they're not.

You're making the assumption that Bioware wouldn't attempt to make them unique,. which you have no evidence to support. If Bioware makes Protheans, which they clearly could, they could undoubtedly make them unique from other races, whether through new powers or racial traits.

If we're going to make assumptions and claim them as fact, then I assume that Protheans would receive a racial trait similar to Krogan Rage that gives them an Area Scan-esque effect for themselves every time they kill an enemy with a heavy melee. Not only does that make your narrow-minded assumption that Bioware can't incorporate the Prothean sensory ability into gameplay invalid, now they're also unique.

And you're assuming that they couldn't just do the same for races that aren't dead. Hey-oh!

Where did I say that Protheans would be the only possible race that this could work for? Bioware could put this on another race. I can't conceive of another race that this would be appropriate for, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a possibility. I'm just giving a single possibility that would make sense on a Prothean and could make Protheans unique from other races. There are plenty of other ideas floating around that could be applied to them, I just picked one that I had considered. Your attempt at putting words in my mouth is astoundingly petty and childish, to say the least.

Not alone the fact that there aren´t any specimens given from previous cycle other than Javik who is Prothean.
We have never seen any other previous cycle species and for cloning to work, it will always need a living tissue, a example DNA to be able to be manipulated so the other races as well as Protheans would be very possible as long as there would be one living example out there.

[DullahansXMark]

Father Superior wrote...

Where did I say that Protheans would be the only possible race that this could work for? Bioware could put this on another race. I can't conceive of another race that this would be appropriate for, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a possibility. I'm just giving a single possibility that would make sense on a Prothean and could make Protheans unique from other races. There are plenty of other ideas floating around that could be applied to them, I just picked one that I had considered. Your attempt at putting words in my mouth is astoundingly petty and childish, to say the least.

I could say the same for using direct insults to win an argument, friend

Anyway, I'll give you the "appropriateness" argument, which I'll admit would be cool, but we'd have to see the Protheans first, and without a proper explanation, I wouldn't readily accept them. Just saying.

[Queen Ultima]

Beta Commando wrote...



Not alone the fact that there aren´t any specimens given from previous cycle other than Javik who is Prothean.
We have never seen any other previous cycle species and for cloning to work, it will always need a living tissue, a example DNA to be able to be manipulated so the other races as well as Protheans would be very possible as long as there would be one living example out there.

There has to be samples, Edi compared  DNA to samples in the collector ship in 2.

Modifié par Queen Ultima, 18 novembre 2012 - 11:49 .

[P_sutherland]

Queen Ultima wrote...

P_sutherland wrote...



I think it would be easier and cheaper to build mechs.

Maybe. But aside from the fact that Mechs could probably be taken over by Reaper code, they're dumb VIs, not even full AIs. Mechs are helpful as foot soldiers, maybe, but there's no replacement for a soldier of flesh and blood. Also, remember the planet in 2 that was turning out fresh Krogen soldiers every 7 days (roughly same as Earth days). Flash-grown, easy to teach via touch and a cultural excuse to get over Citadel laws, they seem ideal to me. One last thing, the people making mechs would be different to people with the ability to clone, although the "buyer" I suppose would be the same. Who knows, maybe Sirta or whoever makes Medi-Gel would make it near free of charge if they cut corners.

As for the Shepard killing Reapers comment, I'm nurture over nature. I doubt Shep would have any inherent ability to kill Reapers, and besides, Human cloning probably wouldn't get very far.

fair enough.. completly forgot about that mission.

Suppose we could make a army of pure blooded Krogan.

[Queen Ultima]

P_sutherland wrote...

fair enough.. completly forgot about that mission.

Suppose we could make a army of pure blooded Krogan.

Saren could do it easily in a lab on a backwater planet, the scientist did it easy on the shipyard planet too. The only thing holding back cloning is mental attiude, not tech

[Father Superior]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Father Superior wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Father Superior wrote...

The point I'm making is that Protheans are indeed possible, but they require an explanation (preferably through a SP DLC). The current lore doesn't make them impossible, it just doesn't have a means of adding them without testing the strength of the players' suspension of disbelief.

Considering that the thread I linked to is 12 pages long, I have extreme doubts that you have read through it.

Wow. You get mad at me for not reading 12 pages of nonsense, yet you didn't even read properly the very post you were replying to. Nice.

I read your post and I replied to the BS you spewed. You said that Protheans are currently "impossible", I pointed out that the thread I linked to shows that your statement is false. In addition to making false accusations, you're assumption that the thread is nonsense is more proof that you're refusing to investigate the opposition's arguments and reasoning. I'm fairly confident that you're trolling, as someone who actually wants to have a debate/discussion is at least willing to listen to the other side's reasoning. You're simply sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "LALALLALAALLALA I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG, LALALALALALALLALALAL".

Arguing with Pro-'theans: It's like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how--

... oh wait, I've done this analogy before.

Not my fault I can make my point with one sentence while your points require a run-on paragraph.

Your point is invalid, as it relies on a narrow-minded view of lore that refuses to change or adapt. I have presented several means of introducing Protheans to MP through my link to a thread, but you refuse to read them and are simply living in ignorance.

If you want to talk analogies, then maybe you should consider this: Pro-theans are akin to atheists and anti-Protheans are akin to theists. Anti-Protheans assert that Protheans are gone in their entirety (excluding Javik) and they cannot be brought back, Pro-theans ask them to prove their assertion.

Pro-theans suggest possible ways to bring back Protheans, essentially making a hypothesis. In order for Pro-theans to be proven wrong, anti-Protheans are required to meet their burden of proof and make it clear that Protheans are incapable of returning through additional content. If you can prove that Protheans are unable to be brought back through any means whatsoever, a feat that is only achieveable by someone who controls the lore of the ME universe, then you will be the victor. If you can convince the people from Bioware who write the lore to announce that Protheans are incapable of revival through any means, then I will accept it. But until that day arrives, Pro-thean suggestions like the ones in the thread I linked to are entirely possible.

PS: Just because I explain my position thoroughly while you insist on short quips as responses does not make your "points" any more valid than my ideas. It could do you some good to fully explain your reasoning.

[Beta Commando]

Queen Ultima wrote...

Beta Commando wrote...



Not alone the fact that there aren´t any specimens given from previous cycle other than Javik who is Prothean.
We have never seen any other previous cycle species and for cloning to work, it will always need a living tissue, a example DNA to be able to be manipulated so the other races as well as Protheans would be very possible as long as there would be one living example out there.

There has to be samples, Edi compared  DNA to samples in the collector ship in 2.

Yeah it´d be odd to not to have other samples but they did not specify what the samples were, anyhow I would not mind other races as well as long as there is a usable tissue to use, it is possible:
Cloning technology is not far from our current reaches, the recent technology breaktroughs have shown that cloning technology is going to be near future, there have already been half dinosaurs made from lizards and this is a fact, from documentary that I watched as well as I have read a lot about cloning, since medical science faciantes me. Also to even further prove my point, my brother is a scientict and specializes in nano-technology and gene manipulation.

Modifié par Beta Commando, 19 novembre 2012 - 01:32 .

[P_sutherland]

better option: be a Collector being controlled by Leviathan.. there.. problem solved.

[Father Superior]

P_sutherland wrote...

Father Superior wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Father Superior wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

god_savant wrote...

I thought lore cohesion went out the window the moment Platinum difficulty was conceived.

Protheans could be cool, although I don't know what would be unique about their race.

Nothing.

They have that "I can touch you and learn everything about you!" deal, but that's impossible to incorporate into gameplay. Beyond that they're just another playable race... oh wait, no they're not.

You're making the assumption that Bioware wouldn't attempt to make them unique,. which you have no evidence to support. If Bioware makes Protheans, which they clearly could, they could undoubtedly make them unique from other races, whether through new powers or racial traits.

If we're going to make assumptions and claim them as fact, then I assume that Protheans would receive a racial trait similar to Krogan Rage that gives them an Area Scan-esque effect for themselves every time they kill an enemy with a heavy melee. Not only does that make your narrow-minded assumption that Bioware can't incorporate the Prothean sensory ability into gameplay invalid, now they're also unique.

And you're assuming that they couldn't just do the same for races that aren't dead. Hey-oh!

Where did I say that Protheans would be the only possible race that this could work for? Bioware could put this on another race. I can't conceive of another race that this would be appropriate for, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a possibility. I'm just giving a single possibility that would make sense on a Prothean and could make Protheans unique from other races. There are plenty of other ideas floating around that could be applied to them, I just picked one that I had considered. Your attempt at putting words in my mouth is astoundingly petty and childish, to say the least.

In said scenerio it would most likely be for whatever species thought it up... and had the technology to spare to do so. (IE Human clones etc)

My suggestion isn't a technological effect, it is the result of the Prothean sensory ability. I referenced Area Scan because it was the most similar effect already available in the gameplay, not because the Protheans would be using tech to do it.

[Father Superior]

Beta Commando wrote...

Father Superior wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Father Superior wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

god_savant wrote...

I thought lore cohesion went out the window the moment Platinum difficulty was conceived.

Protheans could be cool, although I don't know what would be unique about their race.

Nothing.

They have that "I can touch you and learn everything about you!" deal, but that's impossible to incorporate into gameplay. Beyond that they're just another playable race... oh wait, no they're not.

You're making the assumption that Bioware wouldn't attempt to make them unique,. which you have no evidence to support. If Bioware makes Protheans, which they clearly could, they could undoubtedly make them unique from other races, whether through new powers or racial traits.

If we're going to make assumptions and claim them as fact, then I assume that Protheans would receive a racial trait similar to Krogan Rage that gives them an Area Scan-esque effect for themselves every time they kill an enemy with a heavy melee. Not only does that make your narrow-minded assumption that Bioware can't incorporate the Prothean sensory ability into gameplay invalid, now they're also unique.

And you're assuming that they couldn't just do the same for races that aren't dead. Hey-oh!

Where did I say that Protheans would be the only possible race that this could work for? Bioware could put this on another race. I can't conceive of another race that this would be appropriate for, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a possibility. I'm just giving a single possibility that would make sense on a Prothean and could make Protheans unique from other races. There are plenty of other ideas floating around that could be applied to them, I just picked one that I had considered. Your attempt at putting words in my mouth is astoundingly petty and childish, to say the least.

Not alone the fact that there aren´t any specimens given from previous cycle other than Javik who is Prothean.
We have never seen any other previous cycle species and for cloning to work, it will always need a living tissue, a example DNA to be able to be manipulated so the other races as well as Protheans would be very possible as long as there would be one living example out there.

The living tissue would be potentially useful, but I'm not convinced it is entirely necessary. Kakliosaur fossils were enough to revive the species, so Prothean DNA from places like Illos could have been experimented on for years undercover in STG labs (just an example, there are any number of ways that it could happen) and could be nearing fruition around the time of the Reaper invasion. Or Javik's fresh DNA could be the final piece of the puzzle. There are plenty of ways it could work.

[Endorlf]

Here is a question. What's special about Protheans other than their character model? What can a Prothean do that any member of any other non-extinct race can't? Dark Channel? Fury and Valkyrie says hi.

[DJ Airsurfer]

Father Superior, thank you. C:

[DullahansXMark]

Father Superior wrote...

Your point is invalid, as it relies on a narrow-minded view of lore that refuses to change or adapt. I have presented several means of introducing Protheans to MP through my link to a thread, but you refuse to read them and are simply living in ignorance.

Haven't I been over this? I can accept them if BioWare supplies a valid reason for their inclusion. If that's not adaptable, then I must be reading a French dictionary.

If you want to talk analogies, then maybe you should consider this: Pro-theans are akin to atheists and anti-Protheans are akin to theists. Anti-Protheans assert that Protheans are gone in their entirety (excluding Javik) and they cannot be brought back, Pro-theans ask them to prove their assertion.

Now this is just unfair. I've said before that most of us will readily accept them if a proper explanation is given. There needs to be some story-writing backing up the inclusion of a race that, as we all know them to be at this very moment, is completely dead, save for one person.

Pro-theans suggest possible ways to bring back Protheans, essentially making a hypothesis. In order for Pro-theans to be proven wrong, anti-Protheans are required to meet their burden of proof and make it clear that Protheans are incapable of returning through additional content. If you can prove that Protheans are unable to be brought back through any means whatsoever, a feat that is only achieveable by someone who controls the lore of the ME universe, then you will be the victor. If you can convince the people from Bioware who write the lore to announce that Protheans are incapable of revival through any means, then I will accept it. But until that day arrives, Pro-thean suggestions like the ones in the thread I linked to are entirely possible.

Since this paragraph can be reasoned with via the same statements I made above, I'll just say: "see above".

PS: Just because I explain my position thoroughly while you insist on short quips as responses does not make your "points" any more valid than my ideas. It could do you some good to fully explain your reasoning.

In that case, I hope I've made my stance on this issue very clear: it's not possible via lore as we know it, but if they were to modify, or add onto the existing lore, then it's very well possible. However, at the moment, they just simply would not make sense.

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 19 novembre 2012 - 12:08 .

[Beta Commando]

P_sutherland wrote...

better option: be a Collector being controlled by Leviathan.. there.. problem solved.

Well what would change from the OP suggestion, both are not first hand lore friendly options and Protheans are cooler than collectors or then just add them both, either way Protheans are a must try to implement in MP and when I read various posts as well as topics from Protheans into multiplayer, Bioware could easily implement them as there are multiple handy shortcuts and possibilites to implement them into the game without breaking lore or Javiks dialogue.
And I´m sure that none who wants Prometheans to MP would mind if Bioware would copy the lore aspects of the suggestions and put them in the game as we will get the most likely free, that is award enough.

[Queen Ultima]

Endorlf wrote...

Here is a question. What's special about Protheans other than their character model? What can a Prothean do that any member of any other non-extinct race can't? Dark Channel? Fury and Valkyrie says hi.

Aside from their biotic touch (insert comment here), they also are a prime candidate for soldier-cloning. Easy to train via touch, able to get around Citadel sancations via the same route as Medi-Gel, and feriocious in combat. Seems ideal for me, especially since Krogen clones could be harder to control.

[DJ Airsurfer]

Endorlf wrote...

Here is a question. What's special about Protheans other than their character model? What can a Prothean do that any member of any other non-extinct race can't? Dark Channel? Fury and Valkyrie says hi.

Valkyrie has AF, not Dark Channel.

And we cannot know what special in-game abilities they will have unless they're released. Now please, keep rehashing the same thin and flawed anti-Prothean arguments we've heard and read in every thread made about adding Protheans to MP.

I bet you people not wanting Protheans were anti-Volus as well, and look where that got you. 

[DullahansXMark]

Beta Commando wrote...

Protheans are cooler than collectors

Protheans = **** personality
Collectors = no personality

By JRPG standards, they're about even. However, on real terms, I'd rather be around a mindless drone than a ****, so I'd have to go with Collectors on this one.

Not saying you have to agree with me, but...

[Beta Commando]

Endorlf wrote...

Here is a question. What's special about Protheans other than their character model? What can a Prothean do that any member of any other non-extinct race can't? Dark Channel? Fury and Valkyrie says hi.

Other new powers, unique race traits in the Vengeful Ancient, new animations as well as character model to multiplayer, new audio from then and most importantly to play as a ancient legendary race that was so advanced that no ohter race to date can match it. It is not the same if you play Fury and Prothean, the other one is human and the other one is Prothean and why not, what would it change. It is possible without breaking lore so what´s the harm as the lore has been the only problem there has been.

Modifié par Beta Commando, 19 novembre 2012 - 01:32 .

[Endorlf]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

Here is a question. What's special about Protheans other than their character model? What can a Prothean do that any member of any other non-extinct race can't? Dark Channel? Fury and Valkyrie says hi.

Valkyrie has AF, not Dark Channel.

And we cannot know what special in-game abilities they will have unless they're released. Now please, keep rehashing the same thin and flawed anti-Prothean arguments we've heard and read in every thread made about adding Protheans to MP.

I bet you people not wanting Protheans were anti-Volus as well, and look where that got you. 

So your reason for wanting Protheans is that they look cool?

[DullahansXMark]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

And we cannot know what special in-game abilities they will have unless they're released. Now please, keep rehashing the same thin and flawed anti-Prothean arguments we've heard and read in every thread made about adding Protheans to MP.

I bet you people not wanting Protheans were anti-Volus as well, and look where that got you. 

Just to put it out there, most people wanted Volus. It was a vocal minority that did not. I wanted Volus from the get-go, and I'm still against the addition of an extinct species.

Assumptions. It's what caused the 500+-year-long events that led to Martin Luther King jr's assassination 60 years ago.

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 19 novembre 2012 - 12:13 .

[DJ Airsurfer]

DullahansXMark wrote...
In that case, I hope I've made my stance on this issue very clear: it's not possible via lore as we know it, but if they were to modify, or add onto the existing lore, then it's very well possible. However, at the moment, they just simply would not make sense.

If they added Protheans to MP they would most likely give a good explanation then and not just because some bsn'er is too narrow-minded to accept new suggestions on how to improve the game.