418 réponses à ce sujet

[Queen Ultima]

Endorlf wrote...


So your reason for wanting Protheans is that they look cool?

Spoilers - The reason why people buy Ferraris, see certain movies, play certain games, wear clothes, makeup, etc, is because they "look cool". Aesthetics and cosmetics is a large force, never underestimate it.

[Father Superior]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Father Superior wrote...

Where did I say that Protheans would be the only possible race that this could work for? Bioware could put this on another race. I can't conceive of another race that this would be appropriate for, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a possibility. I'm just giving a single possibility that would make sense on a Prothean and could make Protheans unique from other races. There are plenty of other ideas floating around that could be applied to them, I just picked one that I had considered. Your attempt at putting words in my mouth is astoundingly petty and childish, to say the least.

I could say the same for using direct insults to win an argument, friend

Anyway, I'll give you the "appropriateness" argument, which I'll admit would be cool, but we'd have to see the Protheans first, and without a proper explanation, I wouldn't readily accept them. Just saying.

I'd hardly call that a direct insult, I've said much worse things to far less intelligent people in past exchanges.

I'm a bit confused as to why you engaged in this argument with me, as it seems we are in the same boat. From what I've gathered, you're not entirely against Protheans, you're against adding them without sufficient explanation and content to tell the story.

The thread that I linked to, which I urge you to read, is about possible scenarios that Bioware could use (albeit more fleshed out than they appear in the posts) to incorporate Protheans. I try not to delve too far into the details, as it presents the risk of coming off as saying "This is how they need to be added in, no ifs, ands, or buts about it".

The Pro-thean camp, or at least the more refined portion of it, is simply in the position that Protheans could be added and they could potentially breathe new life into MP gameplay, as well as enrich the lore with new stories and events. While my position is not that which is held by all of the Pro-theans, I am in the mindset that while MP lore is in shambles, I would much prefer Protheans to have a detailed explanation (and hopefully SP DLC) than for them to just show up out of the blue (a la Volus). Judging from your posts, you are in a similar position, the major difference being that you wouldn't accept them at all without a sufficient explanation.

I'm not here to have vicious flame wars with people, I'm here to show people how Protheans are a possibility in MP, as well as to promote the inclusion of an explanatory DLC for their arrival. I am here to suggest directions that Bioware could potentially move in, while not insisting that they need to do it in the ways that I suggest. I don't understand what reason you could have to be against that.

[DJ Airsurfer]

Endorlf wrote...
So your reason for wanting Protheans is that they look cool?

Where did I ever state that I wanted Protheans solely for new character models?

[Father Superior]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

Father Superior, thank you. C:

Happy to help

I can understand people not wanting Protheans or thinking that their inclusion would be far-fetched, but I will not stand by as people falsely claim that they are an impossibilty.

[Beta Commando]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Beta Commando wrote...

Protheans are cooler than collectors

Protheans = **** personality
Collectors = no personality

By JRPG standards, they're about even. However, on real terms, I'd rather be around a mindless drone than a ****, so I'd have to go with Collectors on this one.

Not saying you have to agree with me, but...

Yeah, well I don´t know why but somehow I actually like how arrogant Javik is towards the other races, it somehow fits the character very well at the same time bringing a new aspect of views about the current cycle, the current races, their way of living and all that stuff Javik despises. He is a character you love but at the same time hate which is pretty rare trait in ME universe as usually they are quite clearly on either side. A bad guy who you hate/always has hated and then there is good guys that are pure and lovable. Bioware usually sperates these traits completly but Javik is a pleasent change to it.

[Endorlf]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

Endorlf wrote...
So your reason for wanting Protheans is that they look cool?

Where did I ever state that I wanted Protheans solely for new character models?

What is your reason then, other than "why not"? How would it improve the game? As of right now, Prothean brings nothing new gameplay wise. You can say that there's no reason not to include Protheans. But at the same time, you also have the equally valid argument that that there's no reason to include Protheans. So really, it's the choice and preference of the developers.

Modifié par Endorlf, 19 novembre 2012 - 12:24 .

[DullahansXMark]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...
In that case, I hope I've made my stance on this issue very clear: it's not possible via lore as we know it, but if they were to modify, or add onto the existing lore, then it's very well possible. However, at the moment, they just simply would not make sense.

If they added Protheans to MP they would most likely give a good explanation then and not just because some bsn'er is too narrow-minded to accept new suggestions on how to improve the game.

I love how just because I don't agree with you, I'm narrow-minded.

To put this in perspective, I'm in a DLC Creators group, and I'm actively contributing to their topics as well as making my own stuff (click my sig banner). I'm not against advancing the fun value of this game, but I refuse to believe a cop-out retcon will save this game from damnation. I want something more than just "they're Protheans!"

And even if they were properly explained? They better have some damn fine abilities and powers to go with them that refute the whole "they can't do anything our own existing races can't do" deal, which I will add that Father Superior has very civilly contributed to.

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 19 novembre 2012 - 12:22 .

[JimmyBazooka]

Doc-Jek wrote...

Meh, adding new enemies doesn't really enhance the multiplayer experience for me. Plus, we already have Collectors, which are just reaperified Collectors. I'll pass.

Are you dumb or just can't read? OP is talking about playable prothean characters. Not protheans as new enemy faction.

[DullahansXMark]

Father Superior wrote...

I'm a bit confused as to why you engaged in this argument with me, as it seems we are in the same boat. From what I've gathered, you're not entirely against Protheans, you're against adding them without sufficient explanation and content to tell the story.

With all due respect, you did say that my claims were "so wrong" that they were "painful".

Anyway, that's exactly my approach. Glad that someone *glares at OP* managed to see that. And I'm glad to see there's someone on the other side that agrees with me. Yeah, I'm Anti-Prothean, sure, but it doesn't mean I'm absolutely against the notion, it just means that I don't believe they can be added in with existing information and knowledge. But if that information and knowledge was added to? That'd be a whole different story, and I'd probably even jump ship if it was viable enough.

Glad to see we're on the same page now 

[DullahansXMark]

JimmyBazooka wrote...

Doc-Jek wrote...

Meh, adding new enemies doesn't really enhance the multiplayer experience for me. Plus, we already have Collectors, which are just reaperified Collectors. I'll pass.

Are you dumb or just can't read? OP is talking about playable prothean characters. Not protheans as new enemy faction.

Son of a gun, I hadn't even noticed that. Talk about attentive, Jimmy.

[DJ Airsurfer]

Endorlf wrote...
What is your reason then, other than "why not"? How would it improve the game? As of right now, Prothean brings nothing new gameplay wise. You can say that there's no reason not to include Protheans. But then the argument that there's no reason to include Protheans is equally valid. So really, it's the choice and preference of the developers.

How do you know Protheans won't bring anything new to the table? I've said it once and I'll say it again assumptions =/= facts.

One of the reasons for me wanting Protheans in MP is that it would be freaking awesome. Who wouldn't want to go around as an ancient alien, calling everything and everyone primitives while blasting the heads off Geth or Cerberus Troops?

[Father Superior]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Father Superior wrote...

Your point is invalid, as it relies on a narrow-minded view of lore that refuses to change or adapt. I have presented several means of introducing Protheans to MP through my link to a thread, but you refuse to read them and are simply living in ignorance.

Haven't I been over this? I can accept them if BioWare supplies a valid reason for their inclusion. If that's not adaptable, then I must be reading a French dictionary.

If you want to talk analogies, then maybe you should consider this: Pro-theans are akin to atheists and anti-Protheans are akin to theists. Anti-Protheans assert that Protheans are gone in their entirety (excluding Javik) and they cannot be brought back, Pro-theans ask them to prove their assertion.

Now this is just unfair. I've said before that most of us will readily accept them if a proper explanation is given. There needs to be some story-writing backing up the inclusion of a race that, as we all know them to be at this very moment, is completely dead, save for one person.

Pro-theans suggest possible ways to bring back Protheans, essentially making a hypothesis. In order for Pro-theans to be proven wrong, anti-Protheans are required to meet their burden of proof and make it clear that Protheans are incapable of returning through additional content. If you can prove that Protheans are unable to be brought back through any means whatsoever, a feat that is only achieveable by someone who controls the lore of the ME universe, then you will be the victor. If you can convince the people from Bioware who write the lore to announce that Protheans are incapable of revival through any means, then I will accept it. But until that day arrives, Pro-thean suggestions like the ones in the thread I linked to are entirely possible.

Since this paragraph can be reasoned with via the same statements I made above, I'll just say: "see above".

PS: Just because I explain my position thoroughly while you insist on short quips as responses does not make your "points" any more valid than my ideas. It could do you some good to fully explain your reasoning.

In that case, I hope I've made my stance on this issue very clear: it's not possible via lore as we know it, but if they were to modify, or add onto the existing lore, then it's very well possible. However, at the moment, they just simply would not make sense.

You are in a minority of the anti-Prothean camp. While you seem to be reasonable, the vast majority of anti-Protheans I have encountered have been belligerant and stubborn, unable to accept any possibility of change/evolution to the lore.

While I understand your view on the Protheans being dead, I don't think that we can say for sure that Protheans are all gone, even under the current lore conditions. The inclusion of Javik was what really made the doubts of the Prothean "extinction" arise, as without Javik, I would be in agreement with the assumption of their demise. However, the possibility of stasis pods preserving more Protheans along with a plethora of other events that don't seem to be aligned with lore (Rachni "extinction" comes to mind) lead me and others to believe that what we're told in-game isn't 100% reliable. Due to this uncertainty, Pro-theans make the claim that Protheans could potentially be re-introduced to the galactic community. Could. Not will, not undoubtedly, could.

The last part I am inclined to disagree with, as I addressed it in the section above. It is not necessarily impossible, but it would definitely require extensive explanation.

[P_sutherland]

Beta Commando wrote...

P_sutherland wrote...

better option: be a Collector being controlled by Leviathan.. there.. problem solved.

Well what would change from the OP suggestion, both are not first hand lore friendly options and Protheans are cooler than collectors or then just add them both, either way Protheans are a must try to implement in MP and when I read various posts as well as topics from Protheans into multiplayer, Bioware could easily implement them as there are multiple handy shortcuts and possibilites to implement them into the game without breaking lore or Javiks dialogue.
And I´m sure that none who wants Prometheans to MP would mind if Bioware would copy the lore aspects of the suggestions and put them in the game as we will get the most likely free, that is award enough.

then how would we get around the "I am the last Prothean" dialog... unless they all die.

[DJ Airsurfer]

DullahansXMark wrote...
"which I will add that Father Superior has very civilly contributed to."

Because you certainly weren't acting like a complete a**hole. You get what you give.

[Beta Commando]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

Endorlf wrote...
What is your reason then, other than "why not"? How would it improve the game? As of right now, Prothean brings nothing new gameplay wise. You can say that there's no reason not to include Protheans. But then the argument that there's no reason to include Protheans is equally valid. So really, it's the choice and preference of the developers.

How do you know Protheans won't bring anything new to the table? I've said it once and I'll say it again assumptions =/= facts.

One of the reasons for me wanting Protheans in MP is that it would be freaking awesome. Who wouldn't want to go around as an ancient alien, calling everything and everyone primitives while blasting the heads off Geth or Cerberus Troops?

And another good reason is that they can add new powers to them, who ever said they would be tied to the power Javik has, no one that´s who.

[Endorlf]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

Endorlf wrote...
What is your reason then, other than "why not"? How would it improve the game? As of right now, Prothean brings nothing new gameplay wise. You can say that there's no reason not to include Protheans. But then the argument that there's no reason to include Protheans is equally valid. So really, it's the choice and preference of the developers.

How do you know Protheans won't bring anything new to the table? I've said it once and I'll say it again assumptions =/= facts.

One of the reasons for me wanting Protheans in MP is that it would be freaking awesome. Who wouldn't want to go around as an ancient alien, calling everything and everyone primitives while blasting the heads off Geth or Cerberus Troops?

What you listed off are simply aesthetics. The developers can easily bring something new to the table without it being Protheans.

[P_sutherland]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

Endorlf wrote...
What is your reason then, other than "why not"? How would it improve the game? As of right now, Prothean brings nothing new gameplay wise. You can say that there's no reason not to include Protheans. But then the argument that there's no reason to include Protheans is equally valid. So really, it's the choice and preference of the developers.

How do you know Protheans won't bring anything new to the table? I've said it once and I'll say it again assumptions =/= facts.

One of the reasons for me wanting Protheans in MP is that it would be freaking awesome. Who wouldn't want to go around as an ancient alien, calling everything and everyone primitives while blasting the heads off Geth or Cerberus Troops?

I wanna be a Rachni then!

[DJ Airsurfer]

P_sutherland wrote...
then how would we get around the "I am the last Prothean" dialog... unless they all die.

Maybe Javik didn't know he wasn't the last one left?

[DullahansXMark]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...
"which I will add that Father Superior has very civilly contributed to."

Because you certainly weren't acting like a complete a**hole. You get what you give.

You didn't supply a single fact regarding the issue, so I didn't get anything I gave

Anyway, since we're gonna be petty here, I'll just stick with a 13-year-old's trick: "Says the one who had to resort to direct insults to mask his/her lack of ground in the argument!"

[Beta Commando]

P_sutherland wrote...

Beta Commando wrote...

P_sutherland wrote...

better option: be a Collector being controlled by Leviathan.. there.. problem solved.

Well what would change from the OP suggestion, both are not first hand lore friendly options and Protheans are cooler than collectors or then just add them both, either way Protheans are a must try to implement in MP and when I read various posts as well as topics from Protheans into multiplayer, Bioware could easily implement them as there are multiple handy shortcuts and possibilites to implement them into the game without breaking lore or Javiks dialogue.
And I´m sure that none who wants Prometheans to MP would mind if Bioware would copy the lore aspects of the suggestions and put them in the game as we will get the most likely free, that is award enough.

then how would we get around the "I am the last Prothean" dialog... unless they all die.

So you skipped my other suggestions did you, read them and there is your answer, I don´t want to spam much more and especially repeat myself.

[DJ Airsurfer]

Endorlf wrote...
What you listed off are simply aesthetics. The developers can easily bring something new to the table without it being Protheans.

If you didn't notice, I said ONE of the reasons.

Yeah sure, bring in characters that behave like Protheans but aren't actual Protheans, sounds like a great plan.

[P_sutherland]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

P_sutherland wrote...
then how would we get around the "I am the last Prothean" dialog... unless they all die.

Maybe Javik didn't know he wasn't the last one left?

but if protheans pop up and start fighting.. he's at some point going find out about it.

then again.. no one has questioned why my N7 asset is larger than the fisrt,third,fifth and seventh fleets combined.

Modifié par P_sutherland, 19 novembre 2012 - 12:35 .

[Comandr NUMSKUL]

Endorlf wrote...

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

Endorlf wrote...
So your reason for wanting Protheans is that they look cool?

Where did I ever state that I wanted Protheans solely for new character models?

What is your reason then, other than "why not"? How would it improve the game? As of right now, Prothean brings nothing new gameplay wise. You can say that there's no reason not to include Protheans. But at the same time, you also have the equally valid argument that that there's no reason to include Protheans. So really, it's the choice and preference of the developers.

"Nothing new gameplay wise"? So I assume you have already played a Prothean? Your whole argument can be applied to all the playable races in MP. Bioware has done an excellent job making each race feel unique. I doubt that they would impliment Protheans if they didn't feel like thier own race. If Bioware handles Protheans as well as they handled the Volus, even lore junkies might be mostly happy.

Modifié par Comandr NUMSKUL, 19 novembre 2012 - 12:36 .

[Endorlf]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

Endorlf wrote...
What you listed off are simply aesthetics. The developers can easily bring something new to the table without it being Protheans.

If you didn't notice, I said ONE of the reasons.

Yeah sure, bring in characters that behave like Protheans but aren't actual Protheans, sounds like a great plan.

So far, what do we know about how Protheans behave? From all the Prothean characters, I don't see a personality that can't be mirrored by someone of a different species, except maybe the whole "primitive" thing, if you're really into that.

Modifié par Endorlf, 19 novembre 2012 - 12:37 .

[DullahansXMark]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

P_sutherland wrote...
then how would we get around the "I am the last Prothean" dialog... unless they all die.

Maybe Javik didn't know he wasn't the last one left?

At some point in the war, I'm sure Shepard would've told him (and someone would've told him, the whole war is resting on his knowledge of everything), because telling someone they're not an endangered species beats getting hammered on verbablly and being called and primitive all the time, and above all, getting the "do you have any idea what it feels like to" thrown at you, despite knowing exactly how it feels.