45 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Well, they've said they're including a castle. What it's for isn't certain, but I'm crossing my fingers for a party 'homebase', similar to Vigil's Keep. If that's the case, I'd hope they would take a look at the way Monteriggioni Villa and Davenport Homestead are handled in Assassin's Creed II and III respectively.

[Foolsfolly]

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, they've said they're including a castle. What it's for isn't certain, but I'm crossing my fingers for a party 'homebase', similar to Vigil's Keep. If that's the case, I'd hope they would take a look at the way Monteriggioni Villa and Davenport Homestead are handled in Assassin's Creed II and III respectively.

I agree much.

[Emzamination]

Skyrim delivered a better cinematic experience than both Red dead redemption and tw2 combined. Dragon age team should be taking notes from bethseda on how to craft amazing environments.

Modifié par Emzamination, 19 novembre 2012 - 01:08 .

[frostajulie]

Here is something Bioware can learn from other games

DAO: Bioware your strength is in writing powerful characters that stick with you, they mean something to players outside of the game but only when you get a chance to get to know them eg the camp scene in DAO where all your homies hang out with you and you chat around the campside.

In DAO you could talk to characters anywhere not just in their base of operations. This is very powerful for replayability because after a few playthrus I really like to have deep talks with Alistair about Duncan and the warden when we are traipsing through Orzammar, its a grey warden thing this is where we rebuild our brothers in arms friendship after I kill Connor or Isolde. Talking to Morrigan about her mother in the Brecillian forrest with a waterfall in the background was enchanting. Chatting up Zev in the bars for the inevitable romance arcs were also rewarding.

DA2: I like that your bad guys are not bad for Bads ake I felt a great deal of compassion for Meredith until she declared the rite of annulment. She was IMO a tragic hero wannabe.

ME1: I love hating Saren and going after him wrath of Khan style I also love the epic score in ME1 and the speech when the council makes Shepard a spectre, the speech Shepard makes when she takes over the Normandy I still get goosebumps when I hear it accompanied by the music. Note to Bioware do this again. Alistairs speech in DAO was a bit weak.

ME2: Again with the characters are your strength I never met a character you made I either did not love or love to hate in a ME game. This was the epitome of loving your cast of characters Grunt and Jack really bring out all mama bear instincts. Garrus was a truly sweet surprise absolutly an adorable LI. Ashley was almost as wonderful a soul sister as Morrigan.

ME3: Tuchanka. No words can convey the supreme perfection of this story arc whether you paragon it or renegade or somewhere in between this story really showcases the skill of Biowares ability to weave a perfect story. I think Tuchanka should become a synonym for epic, awesome, perfect, coolest thing in the world. "Dude those shoes are Tuchanka!" "I know right? I bought them at footlocker $119.00"

This is what Bioware can learn from other games.

Skyrim was a beautiful world. A beautiful dead world and my PC existed in that great expanse isolated alone and completely separate from all NPC's. Bioware can do better than create eye candy. They can create a game worth returning to time after time that means something to the player and that doesn't have epic speeches drowned out to the point where they are missed completely because some guards audio is louder and teasing you about a damn sweetroll.

[Knight of Dane]

Dunno about you but I did stumble across a few aggressive giants in my time in Skyrim.

[TEWR]

Not from a game, but... study politics and warfare. Both DAO and DAII show how Bioware does not know either, and as a result what they're presenting in their games comes off as very... contrived.

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, they've said they're including a castle. What it's for isn't certain, but I'm crossing my fingers for a party 'homebase', similar to Vigil's Keep. If that's the case, I'd hope they would take a look at the way Monteriggioni Villa and Davenport Homestead are handled in Assassin's Creed II and III respectively.

And the Suikoden series. Specifically, for me, Suikoden IV with the ship base.

[Puzzlewell]

I am absolutely in agreeance that something like the Homestead from AC3 would be amazing. It would give the castle so much life and have sidequests that help the player feel more connected to those that occupy their land.

[Sanunes]

The problem I have with having them take examples from other games is you are taking the best elements from those games, but ignoring the sacrifices made to achieve what made that part of the game good. I haven't played Red Dead Redemption so I can't speak on it, but Skyrim I like to describe it as being as vast as an ocean, but as deep as a puddle (I stole that from an article I read, but can't remember what one).

I think the only thing I really want to see from other games is the demonstration that sometimes taking your time produces a much better game, I don't expect a game that has been in development for six years, but I think taking longer then what has been recently demonstrated would be an improvement.

[Isaidlunch]

One of the reasons why I enjoyed (and still enjoy) KOTOR 2 so much is because it felt like a true emotional journey for the Exile. The Exile's struggle with their past felt real and I connected with him/her as a character in a way that I usually don't with player characters. DAO, DA2 and ME3 all had their moments but too often it felt like the PC's development took a backseat to the plot or to the development of other characters; it certainly wasn't the focus of the game.

My point is, don't let the PC just be along for the ride. Make the game about their journey as well.

Modifié par Kazanth, 19 novembre 2012 - 02:24 .

[Foolsfolly]

Emzamination wrote...

Skyrim delivered a better cinematic experience than both Red dead redemption and tw2 combined. Dragon age team should be taking notes from bethseda on how to craft amazing environments.

Eh, Skyrim's not really cinematic. There are no cutscenes and the actions done by the NPCs and player are rather canned looking (the same movements over and over again).

The enviroments are completely different. And yes Skyrim's environments are amazing. So much detail, so much to do, and so much of it feels different from other parts of the world. At a glance you can usually guess which hold someone's in simply by looking at a screenshot. That's great!

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Not from a game, but...
study politics and warfare. Both DAO and DAII show how Bioware does not
know either, and as a result what they're presenting in their games
comes off as very... contrived.

The thing about DA2 that felt contrived was that moment I realized/read/was told that the Templars have a standing army in Kirkwall while the Viscount did not.

"What do you mean, Dragon Age 2? There's no way a city-state would allow another organization to usurp it in such a slow and poisonous manner like this."

"Well, in this universe... they did," Dragon Age 2 told me.

...I still don't like that. Like how do they defend themselves from other city states or nations? Do they run to the Templars for that? Never mind prior to DA2 there was no suggestion that the Templars did anything other than police mages. Yet here they are as the default army of Kirkwall... or Meredith's interests in Kirkwall.

That did feel contrived to me at least.

[TEWR]

simfamSP wrote...

Elaborate please. These things really interest me

Dwarf Nobles being unable to take the throne of Orzammar when Dwarven lore/history/society provides every reason why it could happen and no reason why it can't. 

See here for more information.

The complete contradiction of Loghain's character as a military genius by Bioware having him fail to know about a fortress in his home country for nineteen years.

See the bottom of the linked page for more information. Specifically the bottom of my long rant.

The Arishok's failure to strategically use the saar-qamek and the stairs of Kirkwall to provide a better defense for his attack. He has men in the courtyard, sure. But they're scattered and not really doing much to keep other people from coming up.

The Arishok's failure to convene with Meredith -- the woman behind the man, so to speak -- in Act 2 and interact with her. She was, by all accounts in Act 1 and 2, the real power in Kirkwall.

And... Hawke's failure to forge political alliances in Act 1 to help increase the chances of him getting his estate back. Money's well and good, but it's not going to guarantee a home.

Then there's MotA's horrific anti-Qunari ending, which doesn't address the military and... geo-political ramifications of the scroll Tallis had.

The Mages not making use of the gateway that led to their room in a pro-Mage side, as they could've concentrated their fire and funneled the Templars -- thus turning something that was seemingly impossible into being a possible victory. And what's worse, neither Hawke or Aveline can suggest this.

And both of them can have military training.

They have the framework. Fereldan politics, international politics, society and people with military backgrounds and success.

But they're not using them. At times, they may make someone politically capable. Anora, certainly.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 novembre 2012 - 02:39 .

[Sejborg]

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, they've said they're including a castle. What it's for isn't certain, but I'm crossing my fingers for a party 'homebase', similar to Vigil's Keep. If that's the case, I'd hope they would take a look at the way Monteriggioni Villa and Davenport Homestead are handled in Assassin's Creed II and III respectively.

I think the castle is so that you can invite friends over for a sleepover and also play: "come into my castle".

[Sith Grey Warden]

If you're going to stick with paraphrasing for the voiced PC, look at Deus Ex: HR. I was never surprised or upset with what Jensen said based on my choice. It always came across as what I had wanted to say, something I had a problem with in DA2.

[Orian Tabris]

Claire "Lightning" Farron from Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIII-2. Her personality, mostly.

Christine Royce from Fallout: New Vegas. Again, the character's personality.

Coincidentally, they were both voiced by the same person, but Christine had her voicebox replaced, and it ended up being voiced by the same real life person.

I'd point out the personality of Veronica Santangelo, also from Fallout: New Vegas, but it's not far off many BioWare characters already created.

Modifié par Orian Tabris, 19 novembre 2012 - 02:44 .

[Fast Jimmy]

The Arishok's failure to convene with Meredith -- the woman behind the man, so to speak -- in Act 2 and interact with her. She was, by all accounts in Act 1 and 2, the real power in Kirkwall.

My first instinct on this one is to blame the Qunari's natural tendency to not see a woman as a leader of armies or in a position of power outside of the priesthood or artisans. He would also view Orsino as not someone worth approaching for similar biases against Mages.

Most of the rest of your list I would say is either a result of either writing that was not analyzed thoroughly, an instance of a limit of how much custom/diverging content the games have had or a case of 'but thou must' (like why the Dwarven noble could not become king). And not neccesarily a lack of understanding politics.

Not to say Bioware games have the greatest political machination plots ever, but involving these types of story in a video game can be thorny in relation to other media, like novels or screenplay.

All in all, I agree... but I don't know how much blame can be laid solely at the feet of 'they don't understand.'

[Fast Jimmy]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

If you're going to stick with paraphrasing for the voiced PC, look at Deus Ex: HR. I was never surprised or upset with what Jensen said based on my choice. It always came across as what I had wanted to say, something I had a problem with in DA2.

not to mention you can see the full text of what Adam was going to say if you hovered over it. 

[Puzzlewell]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Claire "Lightning" Farron from Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIII-2. Her personality, mostly.

Christine Royce from Fallout: New Vegas. Again, the character's personality.

Coincidentally, they were both voiced by the same person, but Christine had her voicebox replaced, and it ended up being voiced by the same real life person.

I'd point out the personality of Veronica Santangelo, also from Fallout: New Vegas, but it's not far off many BioWare characters already created.

While both are great characters I'll make one correction: Lightning was voiced by Ali Hillis while Christine was voiced by Laura Bailey  (if you go by Dead Money, Veronica Belmont voices her in Old World Blues)

[TEWR]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

My first instinct on this one is to blame the Qunari's natural tendency to not see a woman as a leader of armies or in a position of power outside of the priesthood or artisans. He would also view Orsino as not someone worth approaching for similar biases against Mages.

Actually, in the Qunari society women are in positions of administration. One could argue that Meredith being the woman behind the man falls under that very idea. 

The commander of the Templars, he might take issue with. But being the controlling person in Kirkwall politics, not really.

Most of the rest of your list I would say is either a result of either writing that was not analyzed thoroughly, an instance of a limit of how much custom/diverging content the games have had or a case of 'but thou must' (like why the Dwarven noble could not become king). And not neccesarily a lack of understanding politics. 

Not to say Bioware games have the greatest political machination plots ever, but involving these types of story in a video game can be thorny in relation to other media, like novels or screenplay.

All in all, I agree... but I don't know how much blame can be laid solely at the feet of 'they don't understand.'

I think if they were going to keep Dwarf Nobles from doing what they could and should be able to do -- if they want to do it anyway -- they should at least provide a reason why.

Certainly, some of what I listed indicates a lack of understanding on the part of politics/warfare for Bioware. Loghain's ignorance of Ostagar, for example.

As for how much can be laid at the feet of a lack of understanding, this is simply how it appears to me. I don't know what goes on behind their doors, but from what I do know it seems to be that they don't understand politics and warfar -- and even the politics they create they don't know how to use effectively.

[Orian Tabris]

CalamityRanger wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

Claire "Lightning" Farron from Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIII-2. Her personality, mostly.

Christine Royce from Fallout: New Vegas. Again, the character's personality.

Coincidentally, they were both voiced by the same person, but Christine had her voicebox replaced, and it ended up being voiced by the same real life person.

I'd point out the personality of Veronica Santangelo, also from Fallout: New Vegas, but it's not far off many BioWare characters already created.

While both are great characters I'll make one correction: Lightning was voiced by Ali Hillis while Christine was voiced by Laura Bailey  (if you go by Dead Money, Veronica Belmont voices her in Old World Blues)

That sounds familiar. I haven't played FO:NV since October 2011, and I probably played Dead Money in June or July. I remember the voice and thinking it was Ali Hillis, and I vaguely remember reading the credits for DM, and finding out that it was someone else. Like I said, it has been some time since I played the game, and I don't have a photographic memory or anything.

Anyway, on topic, I think the romance between Tidus and Yuna in Final Fantasy X is worth looking at, also. Their's is an interesting story that I think could give BioWare many ideas for new ways to handle romance in DA3, and in other future BioWare titles.

[Statulos]

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, they've said they're including a castle. What it's for isn't certain, but I'm crossing my fingers for a party 'homebase', similar to Vigil's Keep. If that's the case, I'd hope they would take a look at the way Monteriggioni Villa and Davenport Homestead are handled in Assassin's Creed II and III respectively.

I haven´t played Assassin´s Creed but for castle management an expansion, you have an excelent example in Neverwinter Nights II.