75 réponses à ce sujet

[Giltspur]

I liked the bone armor on the hurlock emissaries in DAO.  It made me think of Vlad IV dressing his dragon knights in the bones of enemies and freaking people out or of the way Reavers were made out to be in Firefly.  And I think I'd like to see more in the armor design suggesting they are wearing gear scavenged from their victims.  In DA2, I didn't really get that feeling.  Why were they dressed like they were?  Why the black leather and odd shapes?  Would zombies have that fashion sense?

I also liked the explanation behind how Darkspawn are made.  It's vile.  And DAO reflected that with its sometimes pulsating nastiness in places the Darkspawn had been.  More corpse eating, please.  And also it helps to see the Darkspawn cut people down as the did soldiers in DAO.  When enemies create arterial spray, everybody wins.  I don't recall the Darkspawn doing much other than outnumbering you in DA2, though.

And in general, I'd prefer Darkspawn not be as far removed from their origin races as they seemed to be in DA2.  After all, why would they look so different from their origin race after conversion?  If there's some lore reason given by some Darkspawn scholar, fine.  But so far it's not my preference that they go that route.

Modifié par Giltspur, 19 novembre 2012 - 06:54 .

[Vortex13]

Giltspur wrote...

I liked the bone armor on the hurlock emissaries in DAO.  It made me think of Vlad IV dressing his dragon knights in the bones of enemies and freaking people out or of the way Reavers were made out to be in Firefly.  And I think I'd like to see more in the armor design suggesting they are wearing gear scavenged from their victims.  In DA2, I didn't really get that feeling.  Why were they dressed like they were?  Why the black leather and odd shapes?  Would zombies have that fashion sense?

I also liked the explanation behind how Darkspawn are made.  It's vile.  And DAO reflected that with its sometimes pulsating nastiness in places the Darkspawn had been.  More corpse eating, please.  And also it helps to see the Darkspawn cut people down as the did soldiers in DAO.  When enemies create arterial spray, everybody wins.  I don't recall the Darkspawn doing much other than outnumbering you in DA2, though.

And in general, I'd prefer Darkspawn not be as far removed from their origin races as they seemed to be in DA2.  After all, why would they look so different from their origin race after conversion?  If there's some lore reason given by some Darkspawn scholar, fine.  But so far it's not my preference that they go that route.

^ This

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

I'd prefer no Darkspawn, though I suppose if DA:I takes us underground there ought to be some.

I like DA2's Darkspawn, but as has been said before on these boards, their textures could stand to be a little more dirty, grimy and decayed.

[Xewaka]

Pseudocognition wrote...
I'd prefer no Darkspawn, though I suppose if DA:I takes us underground there ought to be some.
I like DA2's Darkspawn, but as has been said before on these boards, their textures could stand to be a little more dirty, grimy and decayed.

I don't have the link handy, but I remember a post from Laidlaw mentioning they'd work on them, "particularly the teeth."

[The Serge777]

I prefer the DA2 darkspawn. As someone (who actually liked this approach) noted, the original designs were LotR knock-offs rather than twisted monsters. For what it's worth, I also liked the DA2 elves more. I think the art design in DA2 was significantly better and less "cliched" than the art design in DAO. There was a willingess to diverge from the typical approach. Even DA2's story concept was better than DAO, if not the actual execution.

Let's hope they continue to move away from the mundane and expected with their art design and story concepts while allowing us greater impact and role-playing choice.

[Norwood06]

Though I doubt it was intentional, I'm glad the darkspawn looked like orcs in DAO. It made the surprise of the broodmother that much more effective. But now that we all know where they come from, I prefer the DA2 model, if they're touched up a bit.

And I think darkspawn will have a big role in DA3. In my mind, the plots threads of Darkspawn, Old Gods, Arlathan, Flemeth, and mages are all going to come together in a chaotic way.  Can't wait.

Modifié par Norwood06, 19 novembre 2012 - 09:57 .

[Maria Caliban]

In Dragon Age: Inquisition, the Darkspawn will be made Gangnam style.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 19 novembre 2012 - 10:18 .

[Twisted Path]

When DA2 came out someone pointed out that the goofy fight-dance the hurlocks do in Dragon Age 2 is the exact same dance the mooks from Mighty Morfin' Power Rangers did. Someone even put up a side-by-side youtube video.

So yeah, the darkspawn in DA2 looked really stupid. I hope they go back to being scary orcs and goblins instead of dance-fighting goofballs.

[Nerevar-as]

Twisted Path wrote...

When DA2 came out someone pointed out that the goofy fight-dance the hurlocks do in Dragon Age 2 is the exact same dance the mooks from Mighty Morfin' Power Rangers did. Someone even put up a side-by-side youtube video.

So yeah, the darkspawn in DA2 looked really stupid. I hope they go back to being scary orcs and goblins instead of dance-fighting goofballs.

Looking stupid and/or ugly is better than looking generic. Odd set of priorities. But please let some dev post two Batman pictures by different artists as example again.

[Yrkoon]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Looking stupid and/or ugly is better than looking generic.

I   profusely disagree with that.

Eye-sore visages that evoke laughter/mockery/ridicule can do damage to the IP's entire image, whereas playing it safe with  the tried and true tropes,  will at worst, simply not evoke any sort of response.

In any case, we know that Laidlaw has  hinted  towards sticking with DA2's general art style, but I do hope they give that a little more thought.   For DA3, they'll be using a vastly more powerful engine, one capable of making things look *so* much better.  Why would they squander that potential by even  considering  the  use either titles' art style?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 19 novembre 2012 - 11:03 .

[King Cousland]

Plaintiff wrote...

They've said, again and again, that they're sticking with the overall look of DA2.

But darkspawn may still get a redesign. Who knows?

Could you provide a few links please? To my knowledge, BioWare have been extremely cagey about the art direction, and I haven't seen even one affirmation (despite monitoring BioWare posts and tweets for well over a year) that they'll be sticking with the overall look of DA II. 

[Nerevar-as]

Yrkoon wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Looking stupid and/or ugly is better than looking generic.

I   profusely disagree with that.

Eye-sore visages that evoke laughter/mockery/ridicule can do damage to the IP's entire image, whereas playing it safe with  the tried and true tropes,  will at worst, simply not evoke any sort of response.

In any case, we know what Laidlaw has said about  stricking with DA2's general art style, but I do hope they give that a little more thought.   For DA3, they'll be using a vastly more powerful engine, one capable of making things look *so* much better.  Why would they squander that potential by even  considering to use either titles' art style?

Please take no offense, but did you stop reading there?

[burple_nurple]

I prefered DA:O darkspawn because they felt more like twisted people(if you can call quanari/dwarves people)
Hurlocks and genlock had the same height and facial features as humans and dwarves but they looked decayed in DA:O, shrieks had knife ears ect
They wore the similar armour as people, scale or splint mail, rather than a mix of chain mail hoods and spikes that nobody in thedas has.
they also moved and acted like people more in DAO but in da2 they moved and fought like hyperactive 6 year olds.
I might be a bit biased as i loved DA:O with a BURNING PASSION!!! but was severely disappointed with DA2.

Also I like the elf redesign except for Zeveran he looks like a mong

[Yrkoon]

Nerevar-as wrote...


Please take no offense, but did you stop reading there?

No, but I chose to ignore the rest as 1) I'd hardly describe a game's art style as an "Odd set of Priorities", and 2) an example of two pictures of Batman from different artists doesn't really make any point other than to illustrate that different artstyles can still work. Well? Of course they can. But if one of them looks really silly, then people will typically prefer the other one.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 19 novembre 2012 - 11:22 .

[Nerevar-as]

Yrkoon wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...


Please take no offense, but did you stop reading there?

No, but I chose to ignore the rest as 1) I'd hardly describe a game's art style as an "Odd set of Priorities", and 2) an example of two pictures of Batman from different artists doesn't really make any point other than to illustrate that different artstyles can still work. Well? Of course they can. But if one of them looks really silly, then people will typically prefer the other one.

The dev had compared Jim Lee vs George Perez. I´d say DA:O DS vs DA2 was more Bale vs West. Same character, really different concept and idea to the viewer.

[Twisted Path]

Yrkoon wrote...

In any case, we know that Laidlaw has  hinted  towards sticking with DA2's general art style, but I do hope they give that a little more thought.

Ugh. Really? It's going to be another anime-style game?

[xsdob]

All the DA2 darkspawn look like the free'd ones from awakening, except without the armor, well, excpet for that chain mail head thing.

It was weird, and didn;t look right for normal darkspawn to look like.

[Pzykozis]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...


Please take no offense, but did you stop reading there?

No, but I chose to ignore the rest as 1) I'd hardly describe a game's art style as an "Odd set of Priorities", and 2) an example of two pictures of Batman from different artists doesn't really make any point other than to illustrate that different artstyles can still work. Well? Of course they can. But if one of them looks really silly, then people will typically prefer the other one.

The dev had compared Jim Lee vs George Perez. I´d say DA:O DS vs DA2 was more Bale vs West. Same character, really different concept and idea to the viewer.

But, given the general dislike of DA2's style (I myself don't mind any style) surely it should be the other way around, everyone knows West was the best batman ever.

[Nerevar-as]

Pzykozis wrote...

But, given the general dislike of DA2's style (I myself don't mind any style) surely it should be the other way around, everyone knows West was the best batman ever.

:unsure:

Kevin Conroy is the best Batman ever.

BTW, am I the only one who thinks of the classic look instead of Peter Jackson´s when orcs are mentioned?

[Joy Divison]

Ophir147 wrote...

 Darkspawn:

• are a minor point of Dragon Age lore except for during the Blights
• were the least interesting about Dragon Age: Origins and an excuse plot to get us to the more interesting parts of Ferelden all in one game
• incredibly boring and generic Tolkien-esque orc rip-offs (with a hint of zombie and body horror thrown in!)

No.

[ledod]

Maybe Inquisition will not have Darkspawn. Origins suggested that aside from blights, Darkspawn are rare on the surface. Yes, I am assuming we will not tread into the deep roads.

[The Serge777]

Ophir147 wrote...

 Darkspawn:

• are a minor point of Dragon Age lore except for during the Blights

I'm not sure this is accurate.  Darkspawn were supposedly created when Tevinter Magisters went (bodily) into the Fade and entered what is now called the Black City.  While it's unclear if The Maker was ever there or not, the mages' intrusion warped them to the degree that the taint entered Thedas. Not only did this lead to the eventual destruction of the dwarven empire, the first Blight that resulted from the mages' actions weakened the hated Tevinter Imperium and set the foundation for Andraste's rebellion.  It was also a event that further damned mages and magic in the minds of many.  In short, the creation of the darkspawn has had tremendous in-lore reprecussions.

• were the least interesting about Dragon Age: Origins and an excuse plot to get us to the more interesting parts of Ferelden all in one game

While I do agree that DAO's incredibly cliched story was an opportunity to introduce gamers to the Dragon Age franchise in the hopes of introducing many more far interesting story concepts (like DA2, in spite of its poor execution), I think the idea behind the darkspawn is incredibly important to the overarching concept of Ferelden, Orlais, Tevinter and all such places in Thedas.  Again, not only does their existence reflect what are clearly important cosmological and theological issues (The Maker, the Golden/Black City, the Old Gods, the Forgotten Ones, etc.), it also serves as one of many reasons for the animosity and fear directed towards mages, the creation of the Chantry, and the current state of affairs for dwarves and elves. 

• incredibly boring and generic Tolkien-esque orc rip-offs (with a hint of zombie and body horror thrown in!)

Limited to how they appeared in DAO, I agree wholeheartedly.  And, to a degree, the concept does somewhat parallel the creation of the Orcs in commonly accepted Tolkien lore (elves twisted by Morgoth IIRC).  However, the darkspawn concept is significantly more central to the concept of existence and reality in DA than the Orcs are to LoTRs.

The problem isn't that DA:II featured a redesigned and ultimately goofy-looking darkspawn, the real problem is that they feature the Darkspawn at all.

And here I part ways with you once again.  Darkspawn are incredibly important to DA cosmology and lore.  Many of the important questions tied to magic, the Fade, theodisy, and the like are linked directly to how the darkspawn came to be, why they hunt down the Old Gods, why the Old Gods were slumbering, and so forth. 

All this being said, I do agree with you that the designs in DAII, particularly the genlocks and hurlock alphas in Legacy, were huge improvements to their appearances in DAO.  I freely admit that I have difficulty understanding why so many folks want something that's so blatantly derivative.  Is some of this because folks don't like the jarring design shift; i.e. if the darkspawn in DAO were introduced with appearances similar to those in DAII, would people gripe as much?  Indeed, would there be griping?

[Vortex13]

The Serge777 wrote...

Ophir147 wrote...

 Darkspawn:

• are a minor point of Dragon Age lore except for during the Blights

I'm not sure this is accurate.  Darkspawn were supposedly created when Tevinter Magisters went (bodily) into the Fade and entered what is now called the Black City.  While it's unclear if The Maker was ever there or not, the mages' intrusion warped them to the degree that the taint entered Thedas. Not only did this lead to the eventual destruction of the dwarven empire, the first Blight that resulted from the mages' actions weakened the hated Tevinter Imperium and set the foundation for Andraste's rebellion.  It was also a event that further damned mages and magic in the minds of many.  In short, the creation of the darkspawn has had tremendous in-lore reprecussions.

• were the least interesting about Dragon Age: Origins and an excuse plot to get us to the more interesting parts of Ferelden all in one game

While I do agree that DAO's incredibly cliched story was an opportunity to introduce gamers to the Dragon Age franchise in the hopes of introducing many more far interesting story concepts (like DA2, in spite of its poor execution), I think the idea behind the darkspawn is incredibly important to the overarching concept of Ferelden, Orlais, Tevinter and all such places in Thedas.  Again, not only does their existence reflect what are clearly important cosmological and theological issues (The Maker, the Golden/Black City, the Old Gods, the Forgotten Ones, etc.), it also serves as one of many reasons for the animosity and fear directed towards mages, the creation of the Chantry, and the current state of affairs for dwarves and elves. 

 

• incredibly boring and generic Tolkien-esque orc rip-offs (with a hint of zombie and body horror thrown in!)

Limited to how they appeared in DAO, I agree wholeheartedly.  And, to a degree, the concept does somewhat parallel the creation of the Orcs in commonly accepted Tolkien lore (elves twisted by Morgoth IIRC).  However, the darkspawn concept is significantly more central to the concept of existence and reality in DA than the Orcs are to LoTRs.

The problem isn't that DA:II featured a redesigned and ultimately goofy-looking darkspawn, the real problem is that they feature the Darkspawn at all.

And here I part ways with you once again.  Darkspawn are incredibly important to DA cosmology and lore.  Many of the important questions tied to magic, the Fade, theodisy, and the like are linked directly to how the darkspawn came to be, why they hunt down the Old Gods, why the Old Gods were slumbering, and so forth.  

All this being said, I do agree with you that the designs in DAII, particularly the genlocks and hurlock alphas in Legacy, were huge improvements to their appearances in DAO.  I freely admit that I have difficulty understanding why so many folks want something that's so blatantly derivative.  Is some of this because folks don't like the jarring design shift; i.e. if the darkspawn in DAO were introduced with appearances similar to those in DAII, would people gripe as much?  Indeed, would there be griping?

I agree on all points about how important the Darkspawn are to the overall lore of DA. I would also agree on the design shift; if the Darkspawn had looked similar then, no I wouldn't expect there to be much of a dissatisfaction.

However, the change WAS drastic between the two games; the design went from decayed, patchwork armor and monsters that eerily resembled the races of Thedas (reveled later with the inclusion of the Broodmothers), to imacculate chainmail armor as well as an appearance that looks nothing like the races that created them (apart from the fact that they are bipedal humanoids).

I loved the Darkspawn in DA:O / DA:A their look, lore, and presence perfectly mirrored the ultimate evil / corruption / taint that the races of Thedas viewed them as, but in DA 2 the redesign left them looking more goofy then imposing. I want to love, fear hate (in a good story-telling way) again. I want to see the Architect and the choices I made regarding him and the Darkspawn play out in Inquisition. I want to encounter all the creepy elements of the Darkspawn again: Broodmothers, Disicples, Children of the Mother, ect. Unfortunately, it will be very hard to enjoy those things if I am constantly rolling my eyes at how dorky they look.

I am going to wait and see, what the DA team comes up with, I just want it to be said that I think going in the direction of DA 2 is a mistake.

[The Six Path of Pain]

Really hope they go back to the original design or at least remodel them to have a similar looking design....and hopefully we have some interactions with some Deciples Those guys are just too badass!