70 réponses à ce sujet

[AppealToReason]

Neither was fantastic but at least with DA2's it wasn't so tedious and annoying. I usually skipped over it entirely except in DAA when I had to make the runes and stuff for Wade. And when I was doing that I hated having to spend forever making 23904 baby runes to make one Grandmaster Rune.

In DA2 I actually found myself using poisons and bombs and armor potions just because it wasn't such a freaking pain to make everything. Also I had like 2000000 moneys by the end of the game so what else was I gonna spend it on.

I would like to see things like the Runes go back to DAO though as far as the level sort of thing. Master and grandmaster and whatever else. I quite liked that.

[The_11thDoctor]

THe system in DA2 wass better by far, but it was still a bit dull. I hope they keep a crafting element to DA3, but make it more interesting in some way. Like a minigame aspect to it or something. What ever they decide, I love making bombs and those things saved my life on a number of ocasions.

[Sidney]

The runes in DAA were awful. I don't get the joy of crafting. Find A,B,C and click a button to get Y. Yeah!

I preferred DA2's system of having a "farm" for resources rather than having to putz about with buying elfroot and dealing with the inventory to make potions. In the end crafting broke DAO unless you went all house rules to not have 250 healing and mana potions along at all times. The biggest problem with crafting (other than the whole lack of fun thing) is that it drives two other awful elements of the game - trash looting and inventory management.

[Helena Tylena]

I find the idea posed that DA;O's system required 'significant character investment' to be somewhat laughable, to be honest. You had, what, nine companions, Warden included? Only one of them needed to spend any points on Herbalism, one on poison-making, one on trapmaking, etc. And given that most of the other skills were basically useless, these become point-dumps fairly quickly.

[Todd23]

Helena Tylena wrote...

I find the idea posed that DA;O's system required 'significant character investment' to be somewhat laughable, to be honest. You had, what, nine companions, Warden included? Only one of them needed to spend any points on Herbalism, one on poison-making, one on trapmaking, etc. And given that most of the other skills were basically useless, these become point-dumps fairly quickly.

Actually it was better to give one point of trap and poison to everyone, so anyone can use poison and set up traps.

[Anomaly-]

Helena Tylena wrote...

I find the idea posed that DA;O's system required 'significant character investment' to be somewhat laughable, to be honest. You had, what, nine companions, Warden included? Only one of them needed to spend any points on Herbalism, one on poison-making, one on trapmaking, etc. And given that most of the other skills were basically useless, these become point-dumps fairly quickly.

There are very simple solutions for that.

[Helena Tylena]

Anomaly- wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

I find the idea posed that DA;O's system required 'significant character investment' to be somewhat laughable, to be honest. You had, what, nine companions, Warden included? Only one of them needed to spend any points on Herbalism, one on poison-making, one on trapmaking, etc. And given that most of the other skills were basically useless, these become point-dumps fairly quickly.

There are very simple solutions for that.

Possibly, but the fact remained that it was incredibly easy to max out all crafting skills in DA:O, to the point that the only difference between that crafting system, and DA II's crafting system was how materials worked, and the fact that you payed money for it.

[In Exile]

Todd23 wrote...
Actually it was better to give one point of trap and poison to everyone, so anyone can use poison and set up traps.

Not really. Traps and poisons are absolutely meaningless in terms of benefits. You're better off just dumping into combat training (or whatever that skill was called).

[Todd23]

In Exile wrote...

Todd23 wrote...
Actually it was better to give one point of trap and poison to everyone, so anyone can use poison and set up traps.

Not really. Traps and poisons are absolutely meaningless in terms of benefits. You're better off just dumping into combat training (or whatever that skill was called).

I disagree.  I always found a benefit to everyone in the party using frost coating when facing a high dragon.

[Giltspur]

I like finding recipes, figuring things out or discovering, finding components and designing things.  I don't like sorting and making my room in my inventory for bazillions of little pieces that I may or may not use in crafting eventually. 

[Todd23]

Giltspur wrote...

I like finding recipes, figuring things out or discovering, finding components and designing things.  I don't like sorting and making my room in my inventory for bazillions of little pieces that I may or may not use in crafting eventually. 

Storage.

[Anomaly-]

Helena Tylena wrote...
Possibly, but the fact remained that it was incredibly easy to max out all crafting skills in DA:O, to the point that the only difference between that crafting system, and DA II's crafting system was how materials worked, and the fact that you payed money for it.

In the vanilla game, sure. But I'd much rather they expanded on the system, making skills deeper and more competitive with eachother rather than scrapping it altogether.

Hanz54321 wrote...

Remove crafting entirely. It's boring work. I work in real life. I don't play games to work. I play games to have fantasy and fun. Sitting here crafting crap is the equivalent of making McDoubles repetitively for 30 minnutes. It's work, it's not fun, and it should be removed from gaming.

You do realize you don't have to do it, right? Any good crafting system should be largely optional. That way you can do whatever it is you like, and those of us who do like crafting can enjoy the gameplay options and roleplaying possibilities it presents.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 26 novembre 2012 - 11:22 .

[Frankaidenryan]

Crafting is totally optional, that's what made it fun. Plus, I found it much more rewarding in Origins that the 'junk' items you could find there were mostly crafting components, something that DA2 eliminated entirely. Instead of the much maligned torn trousers, there was elfroot, deathroot, lifestone, frostrock, etcetera. Worth pennies, but produced an item worth half a sovereign when crafted. That's worth it, to me, to check those barrels and crates and haul it along.

[Realmzmaster]

Anomaly- wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...
Possibly, but the fact remained that it was incredibly easy to max out all crafting skills in DA:O, to the point that the only difference between that crafting system, and DA II's crafting system was how materials worked, and the fact that you payed money for it.

In the vanilla game, sure. But I'd much rather they expanded on the system, making skills deeper and more competitive with eachother rather than scrapping it altogether.

Hanz54321 wrote...

Remove crafting entirely. It's boring work. I work in real life. I don't play games to work. I play games to have fantasy and fun. Sitting here crafting crap is the equivalent of making McDoubles repetitively for 30 minnutes. It's work, it's not fun, and it should be removed from gaming.

You do realize you don't have to do it, right? Any good crafting system should be largely optional. That way you can do whatever it is you like, and those of us who do like crafting can enjoy the gameplay options and roleplaying possibilities it presents.

Which is fine but certain optional quests require  crafting like Exotic Methods. The PC or companion has to craft the Dwarven Regicide Antidote because there is no place to buy it. Fortunately the quest is optional, but If one is a completist then there is no choice. The same with Elora's Halla except survival is required.

As long as crafting is optional or kept to optional quests then I have no problem with it.

[Anomaly-]

Hanz54321 wrote...
Actually that seems a good point.  For the most part I don't. 

But in Awakening it was foolish not to craft the best lightning runes for your weapons and -5% fatigue for your gear.  In DA2 going without spirit runes and armor/dodge runes also was seriously gimping yourself.

So yeah, I could skip it as you suggest.  But it's an invitation to get my party's skulls caved in a lot. 

I don't like crafting but I also don't like gimping my game by skipping the essential crafts.  So I craft, but I hate it.

Crafting is optional like having both arms is optional. You can get through life with one arm . . . but it really slows everything you do down and makes it more difficult.  Some things you plain cannot do - like play console games or twitch games.  Ever try paddeling a canoe with one arm?  I did.  My buddy ended up taking me for a ride because I was useless on that trip.

So actually, crafting is kind of mandatory.

(edit for spelling)

Ah, now I understand you a bit better. (See? It's not a waste of time to clearly make your case).

You make a good point, but we are actually in agreement. Personally, I "crafted" one thing in DA2, and after realizing what the system entailed and the process involved, I lost all interest. The problem you mention is very prevalent in DA2, and is one of the big reasons I didn't care for that system. It requires no sacrifice on your part. Therefore, it's basically just a free bonus, and as you say, essentially forces you to do it for harder difficulties.

The point I am making - and have been making for a long time, now - is that crafting should be a meaningful choice. By investing in crafting, you should be foregoing other useful, often combat-oriented skills. As a result, people who are strictly interested in the conventional approach to combat are not missing anything. The system in Origins was on the right track, but as a poster above noted, the skills simply weren't deep and varied enough to make for any real sacrifice.

The solution is quite simple. Rather than scrapping those skills entirely, improve upon them to allow players to make meaningful choices as to how they define, build and develop their character(s). This would allow for people like me who enjoy the crafting approach to experience an interesting and rewarding alternative approach to gameplay, while keeping it entirely optional so people like you aren't gimping yourselves in any way by not doing the same.

Realmzmaster wrote...
Which is fine but certain optional quests require  crafting like Exotic Methods. The PC or companion has to craft the Dwarven Regicide Antidote because there is no place to buy it. Fortunately the quest is optional, but If one is a completist then there is no choice. The same with Elora's Halla except survival is required.

As long as crafting is optional or kept to optional quests then I have no problem with it.

Yes, I agree with you. I can understand optional quests being tied to certain skillsets. After all, some difference in content is an added incentive to try different character types. However, they should never be mandatory for main quests.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 27 novembre 2012 - 06:07 .

[Realmzmaster]

I only had problems with runecrafting in Awakening. That system needs a complete overhaul. I should not have to craft all the intermediate runes to craft the higher level rune. The game should be able to figure out if the crafter has enough ingredients to make the rune.

[Fast Jimmy]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Which is fine but certain optional quests require  crafting like Exotic Methods. The PC or companion has to craft the Dwarven Regicide Antidote because there is no place to buy it. Fortunately the quest is optional, but If one is a completist then there is no choice. The same with Elora's Halla except survival is required.

As long as crafting is optional or kept to optional quests then I have no problem with it.

How would you feel about having crafting/brewing/forging/etc. be a possible solution to main/large quests, but one of many solutions? 

[Realmzmaster]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Which is fine but certain optional quests require  crafting like Exotic Methods. The PC or companion has to craft the Dwarven Regicide Antidote because there is no place to buy it. Fortunately the quest is optional, but If one is a completist then there is no choice. The same with Elora's Halla except survival is required.

As long as crafting is optional or kept to optional quests then I have no problem with it.

How would you feel about having crafting/brewing/forging/etc. be a possible solution to main/large quests, but one of many solutions? 

If it is one of many solutions I have no problem with it. It simply cannot be the only solution.  If the PC finds the necessary components then one solution could be to have someone else craft the item like Wade. Or the PC can buy the item or obtain it through a quest.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 28 novembre 2012 - 04:50 .