155 réponses à ce sujet

[PinkysPain]

To me it seems every side of the equation has been explored ... it's a huge unsatisfying mess with no real solutions which I'd rather be put into the background. In my opinion the issue was visited enough in DA:O to begin with
and it was in the background there ... DA2 was a step too far, I hope it gets put in the background again in DA3.

I don't particularly like a-moral universes in cRPGs, the cause shouldn't need to justify the means (ie. there should be a realistic alternative to depriving mages of their freedom). I realise I'm perhaps not in the majority in this, please don't call me juvenile for it though ... or I'll be forced to call you edgy The only way I wouldn't mind the issue being front and center for an entire game again is if we could SOLVE the problem ... which is to say strengthening the veil and protecting mages from posession (although I think this is way too epic a story for the current Dragon Age writers to even consider unfortunately).

Am I alone in this?

Modifié par PinkysPain, 19 novembre 2012 - 02:53 .

[Plaintiff]

It's interesting to me. All problems related to bigotry and oppression are interesting to me.

I will stop discussing them when all such issues are resolved in real life and in fiction. So, never.

I think there's already a realistic alternative to depriving the mages of their freedom, and that's to stop damn well doing it.

There's no "solution", at least, not the kind you're looking for. Even if mages could find an effective way to ward off possession, magic would still be dangerous. People would still want to imprison mages for that fact. Not that humans have ever actually needed an excuse to be jerks.

[PinkysPain]

Plaintiff wrote...
Even if mages could find an effective way to ward off possession, magic would still be dangerous.

Meh, a bow is dangerous ... especially in a DA2 type universe where it's an AoE weapon of mass destruction.

A standard mage is not on the same level as an Abomination.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:01 .

[Plaintiff]

PinkysPain wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Even if mages could find an effective way to ward off possession, magic would still be dangerous.

Meh, a bow is dangerous ... especially in a DA2 type universe where it's an AoE weapon of mass destruction.

A standard mage is not on the same level as an Abomination.

Well I don't think that the current dangers of magic even slightly justify the way mages are treated presently.

I'm just saying, bigots gonna bigot.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:51 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Neither my Andrastian Hawke nor my Andrastian Warden saw a conundrum. Magic is a danger, plain and simple. My Blood Mage Warden and "Blood Hawke" didn't see a conundrum either. Magic was for gaining and applying power.

[Beerfish]

PinkysPain wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Even if mages could find an effective way to ward off possession, magic would still be dangerous.

Meh, a bow is dangerous ... especially in a DA2 type universe where it's an AoE weapon of mass destruction.

A standard mage is not on the same level as an Abomination.

When he can turn into one at any time, any place under any occasion the levels are pretty close.  And this is just talking about a 'standard mage' who is a fine person and not wanting to cause any real mischief intentionally.

[Zardoc]

Plaintiff wrote...

It's interesting to me. All problems related to bigotry and oppression are interesting to me.

I will stop discussing them when all such issues are resolved in real life and in fiction. So, never.

I think there's already a realistic alternative to depriving the mages of their freedom, and that's to stop damn well doing it.

There's no "solution", at least, not the kind you're looking for. Even if mages could find an effective way to ward off possession, magic would still be dangerous. People would still want to imprison mages for that fact. Not that humans have ever actually needed an excuse to be jerks.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. As much as I loathe the way some mages are treated, there is no good alternative to the Circles.

Modifié par Zardoc, 19 novembre 2012 - 05:05 .

[garrusfan1]

No it isn't old to me but it should not be the only thing and it isn't

[Teddie Sage]

Protecting the minorities will always be my first priority.

[Jonata]

Mages are the Dragon Age Universe's very own mutants (I'm talking about the Marvel Comics mutants, not the post-nuclear war abominations). Leave them completely free and they could easily dominate all of Thedas, imprison them like the Chantry does and you're acting against some basic rights that every living being should have.

So, yeah, I think it's a pretty cool theme to have and can bring in a lot of questions and personal tastes about how to deal with the situation. To have the possibility to completely solve the problem, one way or the other, can be exciting even if it seems unlikely, but in any case I'm not against another Mage/Templar centered game, as long as other things can be explored too.

After all, we're probably going to be in Orlais, so there's a high chance that politics and corruption will also be some of the main themes of Inquisition.

[Bizantura]

I agree insofar that the religeous morality issues will have as many solutions as there are individuals. So keeping it in the background adds to realism but it is futile to confront the problem head on.

As far as I am concerned helping either group once a while is more than enough and give us a story where there truly is a solution too.

[Jon The Wizard]

Personally, I'm all for a good old-fashioned Mages' Revolt. They got the power in this equation. What good are mere swords and bows before a well-placed fireball? I mean, if I was a mage, I'd go evil in a second to silence those pricks who babble on about mages being evil because they have magic and it angers their non-responsive god.

[Medhia Nox]

I find the mage issue interesting - I find resolving it to be a terrible, terrible idea.

I found the situation for the mages in Thedas to be very unique in the endless see of carbon copy fantasy worlds.

I think resolving the mage issue with anything but the mages being re-instituted - is moving in the wrong direction.

[Teddie Sage]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

 Yes, the writers.  

Don't generalize something so vague.

[PinkysPain]

Medhia Nox wrote...
I think resolving the mage issue with anything but the mages being re-instituted - is moving in the wrong direction.

Mages re-instituted? You mean the Circle of Magi I assume?

[Kidd]

It's interesting to me~

I like playing both sides of the issue =)

[CaptainBlackGold]

I respectfully disagree and yet also, in a bizarre way, agree with the OP. The writers have handed us a thorny conundrum; unrestricted mages are a terrible danger. A long painful war was fought to remove them from power; power they once used to dominate the entire continent.

For a thousand (or whatever) years, a way was found to contain them - an answer that the vast majority of mages accepted - though with reservation. This "answer" was founded on a religious system and institution that was universally accepted.

But DAO introduced fractures in the system; the old answers no longer seem to be working. In DA2, a possessed Anders, destroyed the old equilibrium. Now the people of Thedas have to try and find a new answer, or the entire "world" will be engulfed in a vicious war "to the knife."

I do not see any easy answers from the way that the problem has been presented. Therefore from one sense, I would love to see what the writers think would resolve the dilemma - hence my disagreement with the OP.

However, on the other hand, maybe the writers do not want to resolve the problem. After all, a world torn apart from irreconcilable differences provides them a far more interesting setting to tell any number of great stories for the foreseeable future. Maybe they want to keep everyone, mages and "norms" at each others throats just to provide the kind of background to tell those stories?

So yeah, it is quite possible that everything we have seen thus far is simply tilling the soil to tell some really interesting stories. After all, I doubt that any of us actually expect the problems of the blight to be ever resolved, in the game world - the Dark Spawn are just a background menace that gives the PC a reason to struggle. The "Mage-Templar" war may just be serving the same, dramatic function.

Modifié par CaptainBlackGold, 19 novembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[PinkysPain]

Actually I fully expect that after the last old god is slain the blights will be over.

Blights are ultimately surmountable ... the mage conundrum is ultimately only suppressible by immoral means, annoying and also boring to have the games keep driving this point home over and over again. I get it, mages become abominations ... can't we move on?

[Rawgrim]

After DA2 I see no reason not to support the templars 100 percent. 99 percent of the mages in DA2 turned out to be blood mages, or psychotics.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

The mage issue to me and the mentality that has led to the mages being treated the way they are by several nations and different cultures in Thedas reeks of paranoia and has unpleasant elements which remind of both witch hysteria and "Reds under every bed" fear-mongering so prevalent in America at the height of the Cold War. The actual treatment of mages in many of Thedas' civilized nations reminds me of ethnic internment camps like those use to detain Japanese and Italian Americans (and Canadians) during the Second World War. Naturally I find the issue interesting and relevant. It's the focus on issues like it that make Dragon Age so much more than just another generic fantasy series. So yeah, with all due respect I have to disagree with OP.

Mages are potentially dangerous and can certainly cause more damage than one deeply unsettled individual wielding a mere sword against unarmed civilians is likely to be. There is always the seductive lure of power, but to assume that every mage is an abomination just waiting to happen or a closet blood mage is folly. Demonic possession tends to occur to either willing and/or naive individuals seeking power or to children (or even possibly adults) with untrained magical potential, as was the case with Connor (throw in the added vulnerability in his case with respect to his father's predicament); not sure if the Kitty girl in Prisoner of Stone actually has magical potential, although I suspect she may.

To me the treatment of mages in Thedas is really no different than Force-sensitives in the Star Wars universe, theoretically speaking, being herded together, locked away against their will, and isolated from the rest of society for fear that any one of them could turn to the Dark Side. In a sense, the Jedi Order does this, but in a much more benign way. A Jedi can leave the Order without fear of being hunted down.

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:11 .

[Aolbain]

If some people goes of like a tactical nuke in a moment of weakness they need to controlled. The Circles needs to be reformed but are unfortunately necessary.

[Rawgrim]

Aolbain wrote...

If some people goes of like a tactical nuke in a moment of weakness they need to controlled. The Circles needs to be reformed but are unfortunately necessary.

Exactly. All the mages did in DA2 was prove the templars right every chance they got. Even Orsino did it.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Rawgrim wrote...

After DA2 I see no reason not to support the templars 100 percent. 99 percent of the mages in DA2 turned out to be blood mages, or psychotics.

99% of the mages we met in quests were blood mages or psychotics. That does not account for every mage living in the Gallows or Anders who is a spirit-possessed terrorist.

[Rawgrim]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

After DA2 I see no reason not to support the templars 100 percent. 99 percent of the mages in DA2 turned out to be blood mages, or psychotics.

99% of the mages we met in quests were blood mages or psychotics. That does not account for every mage living in the Gallows or Anders who is a spirit-possessed terrorist.

Quite right. But I can`t really comment on stuff thats not included in the game, can I?