103 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedimaster88]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


Yes, though he probably would've supported a fair exercise of law rather then outright murder. As Howe was doing a lot of things behind Loghain's back and without his approval on them, I doubt he would've let him stay alive.

In addition, it would be too risky to allow Howe to wield the power of a Teyrnir and two Arlings -- the greater portion of the Coastlands. It would be the monarch's duty -- Anora, in this case, were she to be recognized by the Landsmeet -- to institute a new family as the local lords of Denerim and Highever if the original line has been reduced to oblivion.

That's how these things work.

So at the very least, Howe would be stuck with Amaranthine again. But Anora is far more discerning -- plus Howe is not subtle at all -- and she would no doubt have surmised that Howe had murdered the Couslands and possibly the Kendalls for more power and would then have opted that he face the hangman's noose.
Eamon would let his relationship to the throne cloud his judgement and simply view Loghain as a traitor, wrong as that would be. No amount of effort on Loghain's part would be able to persuade Eamon that Cailan couldn't be saved.

As you said, Howe worked alot behind Loghain´s back. (Some people have said that he took money for himself from the treasury. Dont know if its true.)

We all know what kind of slippery snake he is. I have a bad feeling that if things had gone differently, he would have schemed his way out of it somehow or worse. By the time someone actually does something, he already has some ace up his sleeve. At least this is what I suspect.

Palpatine to Anakin; "All, who gain power, are afraid to lose it"

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Because during a war -- especially a civil war -- trade is almost impossible, if not outrightly so, to do? Because both Bhelen and the Warden-Commander do that after the Blight's ended, the Civil War has been settled, and Ferelden is stable?

Well I wouldnt call Amaranthine actually stable during the awakening with everything going on. Still the commander manages to increase trade and gets a nice amount of gold for it.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


Eamon would let his relationship to the throne cloud his judgement and
simply view Loghain as a traitor, wrong as that would be. No amount of
effort on Loghain's part would be able to persuade Eamon that Cailan
couldn't be saved.

Eamon to Alistair; "Without you Loghain would win. I would have to support him for Ferelden´s sake...".
Not sure if it was completely like this...


This gives me the image that if it would come to that, Eamon would support Loghain during the blight although he wouldnt do it gladly. After the blight...well I dont know what would happen.

Modifié par Jedimaster88, 27 novembre 2012 - 06:51 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Jedimaster88 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Yes, though he probably would've supported a fair exercise of law rather then outright murder. As Howe was doing a lot of things behind Loghain's back and without his approval on them, I doubt he would've let him stay alive.

In addition, it would be too risky to allow Howe to wield the power of a Teyrnir and two Arlings -- the greater portion of the Coastlands. It would be the monarch's duty -- Anora, in this case, were she to be recognized by the Landsmeet -- to institute a new family as the local lords of Denerim and Highever if the original line has been reduced to oblivion.

That's how these things work.

So at the very least, Howe would be stuck with Amaranthine again. But Anora is far more discerning -- plus Howe is not subtle at all -- and she would no doubt have surmised that Howe had murdered the Couslands and possibly the Kendalls for more power and would then have opted that he face the hangman's noose.
Eamon would let his relationship to the throne cloud his judgement and simply view Loghain as a traitor, wrong as that would be. No amount of effort on Loghain's part would be able to persuade Eamon that Cailan couldn't be saved.

As you said, Howe worked alot behind Loghain´s back. (Some people have said that he took money for himself from the treasury. Dont know if its true.)

I don't think anybody does. We hear it from Slim Couldry, who may or may not be telling us the truth. He has his own motivation to make you want to do his quests. Two, actually, either of which would be sufficient for him.

We all know what kind of slippery snake he is. I have a bad feeling that if things had gone differently, he would have schemed his way out of it somehow or worse. By the time someone actually does something, he already has some ace up his sleeve. At least this is what I suspect.

Palpatine to Anakin; "All, who gain power, are afraid to lose it"

It is entirely unclear whether he would have managed that. Loghain would probably have sent an army against him if necessary and when possible, and not even those nobles who trust Loghain like Howe. From what I can tell, he's most likely only powerful in his own original fief.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Because during a war -- especially a civil war -- trade is almost impossible, if not outrightly so, to do? Because both Bhelen and the Warden-Commander do that after the Blight's ended, the Civil War has been settled, and Ferelden is stable?

Well I wouldnt call Amaranthine actually stable during the awakening with everything going on. Still the commander manages to increase trade and gets a nice amount of gold for it.

Well, the country isn't actively panicking, and up unti the very end neither the darkspawn nor the noble dissidents are as dangerous as during the main game. The situation is unpleasant, but for most of the game the area isn't Origins-level screwed.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


Eamon would let his relationship to the throne cloud his judgement and
simply view Loghain as a traitor, wrong as that would be. No amount of
effort on Loghain's part would be able to persuade Eamon that Cailan
couldn't be saved.

Eamon to Alistair; "Without you Loghain would win. I would have to support him for Ferelden´s sake...".
Not sure if it was completely like this...

This gives me the image that if it would come to that, Eamon would support Loghain during the blight although he wouldnt do it gladly. After the blight...well I dont know what would happen.

Without another heir, probably nothing. He knows the country is going to dissolve into civil war without someone on the throne.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 27 novembre 2012 - 08:28 .

[TEWR]

As you said, Howe worked alot behind Loghain´s back. (Some people have said that he took money for himself from the treasury. Dont know if its true.)

It is. You find Howe's men in the treasury and Howe's hardly going to be prioritizing Ferelden over his own lust for power and greed.

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

It is entirely unclear whether he would have managed that. Loghain would probably have sent an army against him if necessary and when possible, and not even those nobles who trust Loghain like Howe. From what I can tell, he's most likely only powerful in his own original fief.

Amongst other nobles -- and even amongst some of his own soldiers -- Howe is detested. However, I'd say that those soldiers that hate him are in the minority. The populus isn't too fond of him, that's for sure.

But as he's in control of the greater part of the Coastlands, he controls enough men to put a damper on Loghain's plans to combat the Blight if antagonized. Afterwards, however, I'm sure Howe could be dealt with. Anora or Loghain might call him to the Royal Palace, offering him a role as Chancellor.

Howe might get giddy at this and come to see Anora and Loghain on his own or with a small detachment of men. Anora and Loghain, however, would probably be prepared by having their men filled throughout the palace.

Then they'd arrest him, try him for treason, etc.

Howe is not well loved, and he is not that smart. Anora is smarter then he is and Loghain is nobler then he is.

Well I wouldnt call Amaranthine actually stable during the awakening with everything going on. Still the commander manages to increase trade and gets a nice amount of gold for it.

Riverdaleswhiteflash answered this for me. While things are not perfect, the situation is not Origins level ****fest.

[IntoTheDarkness]

Of course every feudal lords try to murder their monarch. That way they can become a king!

Are you simple minded? I don't particular have any opinions on the topic, but you should elaborate bro.

[KotorEffect3]

Whether or not he had been in cahoots with Howe before the Cousland massacre by making Howe his right hand man afterwards was enough for my Couslands to see Loghain as guilty by association. When my Couslands hit Denerim they see nothing but blood. Both Loghain and Howe will die by my hand.

[Monica21]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Of course every feudal lords try to murder their monarch. That way they can become a king!

Are you simple minded? I don't particular have any opinions on the topic, but you should elaborate bro.

This, and other posts, indicate an extraordinary lack of understanding of the Ferelden government on your part. Loghain can't become king simply by killing Bryce Cousland and Cailan. He would have to be elected by the Landsmeet. Basically, you have to stop thinking of Ferelden as a "medieval feudal system" every time you post because it's only loosely one. In many respects it's very modern.

[atum]

This is an interesting thread! First, I should say I like that Loghain is a complex character and love that the virtue of his actions is a source of great debate here,

Anyways, I just noticed a few things skimming the thread I think some people may have missed.

Evidence Loghain tried to murder Eamon

1) Jowan
2) Elf spy in the Redcliff tavern.
3) Templar in Howe's dungeon who corroborates Jowan's story (at least somewhat)

Timing of Eamon's poisoning

Even if Duncan was speaking with Eamon shortly before Ostagar, Eamon still could have been poisoned just after Duncan left, and prior to the battle.

Eamon not dying

I think the 'Connor' factor here is that he 'saved' his father from death by making a deal with a desire demon. However, since the desire demon is lake a bad lawyer, she/it only saved Eamon enough to put him in a coma. Which is kind of how demons work. This isn't outright said, but it is implied through conversations with Jowan and the fade demon/Connor. So in all likelihood, Jowan had administered a deadly dose of poison.

Whether or not Loghain intended to pull out of Ostagar is harder to pin down. But I believe there is sufficient evidence that he intentionally tried to kill Eamon.

Modifié par atum, 22 décembre 2012 - 07:14 .

[TEWR]

atum wrote...

Evidence Loghain tried to murder Eamon

Not murder. Incapacitate. The poison was meant to render Eamon comatose and, if his condition worsened to the point where death was close to happening then Berwick would send word about Eamon's condition to Howe's men.

Which therein lies the problem, as Howe is a Complete Monster that does things For the Evulz and hopes to further his own ambitions. Had Howe's men been told of Eamon's condition, the sad fact is that they would've reported it to Howe -- since they're his men.

Howe would not have told Loghain. He would've just waited for Eamon to die so that he could plan out how to take over Redcliffe as well.

But Loghain? He never sought Eamon's death, but he did want him out of the picture until the Darkspawn were dealt with, because Eamon would've been clouded by his familial relationship to Cailan to look at Ostagar as it truly happened.

I think the 'Connor' factor here is that he 'saved' his father from death by making a deal with a desire demon.

Yes and no. The poison was never intended to kill Eamon -- though that was a possibility. It was only meant to incapacitate Eamon.

It could've killed him, but the poison actually never progressed far enough where death was close to happening -- save in the minds of Connor and Isolde. If it had, Berwick would've sent word out about it.

atum wrote...

But I believe there is sufficient evidence that he intentionally tried to kill Eamon.

DG says otherwise.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Berwick doesn't really know though, does he? All he could have commented about was what Connor and Isolde's minds said.

Also, while Gaider relates most of this plan, minus Howe probably screwing Eamon over, he admits this wasn't really made clear in-game.

(His reply to the demon saving Eamon thing is that the demon said that's what it would do, knowing full well that things weren't to that point yet, then put Eamon in a coma while preventing it from ever getting to that point.)

[Monica21]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Also, while Gaider relates most of this plan, minus Howe probably screwing Eamon over, he admits this wasn't really made clear in-game.

Yeah, I hate that part. It really should have been made clear in-game what Loghain's intentions were with regard to Eamon. A letter in Howe's Denerim estate would have suited just fine, since it's so difficult to argue that point without Word of God, and I dislike arguing points using Word of God. The game should give me the evidence I need.

[Jedimaster88]

Monica21 wrote...


Yeah, I hate that part. It really should have been made clear in-game what Loghain's intentions were with regard to Eamon. A letter in Howe's Denerim estate would have suited just fine, since it's so difficult to argue that point without Word of God, and I dislike arguing points using Word of God. The game should give me the evidence I need.

I agree with you here. This and some other things were a complete surprise for me when I learned about them from these forums by chance. They should be more clear in the game.

Before the forums, I automatically assumed that the poison was meant to kill because, well usually poison=death and no one offers a better explanation in the game.

Well since Im here, I may as well wish you all merry christmas from Finland!!!

Modifié par Jedimaster88, 23 décembre 2012 - 05:29 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Loghain should have killed Eamon really. Not doing so was one of his biggest mistakes.

You'd think he'd know better as a general. But alas Loghain can be such a fool at times.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 24 décembre 2012 - 01:01 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

He intended to be the only one who could restore Eamon. That's just as good, really, if he can come up with a plausible reason why he had the antidote in the first place. (I would love to hear Gaider's word on that one.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 24 décembre 2012 - 02:29 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Jedimaster88 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...


Yeah, I hate that part. It really should have been made clear in-game what Loghain's intentions were with regard to Eamon. A letter in Howe's Denerim estate would have suited just fine, since it's so difficult to argue that point without Word of God, and I dislike arguing points using Word of God. The game should give me the evidence I need.

I agree with you here. This and some other things were a complete surprise for me when I learned about them from these forums by chance. They should be more clear in the game.

Before the forums, I automatically assumed that the poison was meant to kill because, well usually poison=death and no one offers a better explanation in the game.

Well since Im here, I may as well wish you all merry christmas from Finland!!!

Well, in fairness to Gaider, Jowan does mention that Loghain told him the poison wasn't meant to be lethal. The problem is that you never get to ask Loghain about it, and Jowan doesn't seem to believe Loghain's word by the time you meet him.

Anyway, Merry Not-Quite-Christmas from the U.S.A.

[atum]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...


Well, in fairness to Gaider, Jowan does mention that Loghain told him the poison wasn't meant to be lethal. The problem is that you never get to ask Loghain about it, and Jowan doesn't seem to believe Loghain's word by the time you meet him.

Anyway, Merry Not-Quite-Christmas from the U.S.A.

Did not know this.  Interesting.  I'll have to go replay that part.   Do you remember when he says it?  In the jail cell or in the main hall?

That defitely does add to Logain's complexity if he tried to only incapacitate Eamon.

edit: merry xmas too

Modifié par atum, 24 décembre 2012 - 09:20 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

atum wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...


Well, in fairness to Gaider, Jowan does mention that Loghain told him the poison wasn't meant to be lethal. The problem is that you never get to ask Loghain about it, and Jowan doesn't seem to believe Loghain's word by the time you meet him.

Anyway, Merry Not-Quite-Christmas from the U.S.A.

Did not know this.  Interesting.  I'll have to go replay that part.   Do you remember when he says it?  In the jail cell or in the main hall?

That defitely does add to Logain's complexity if he tried to only incapacitate Eamon.

edit: merry xmas too

I thought it was in the dungeon, but I can't find it on Youtube. I must have misremembered. Which means this point only works with Word Of God. (Seriously, would it have been that hard to put that line in?!)

[ejoslin]

Pulling out the toolset here...

Berwick says he talked to one of Howe's men, who was known to be Loghain's right hand man. That does not implicate Loghain, however.

What doesn't make sense about Connor is Loghain's involvement. How could Loghain know that Isolde needed a mage to tutor him? And if he didn't know that, why on earth would he set a blood mage free to poison Eamon when he could just as easily paid off a servant? And if he DID know that Connor was a mage, why wouldn't he use blackmail first, especially against Isolde?

Irminric asks if you're one of the Teryn's men, but he could just as easily have been talking about Howe. And given that he's in Howe's dungeon, it's more likely he was taken prisoner by Howe than Loghain.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 décembre 2012 - 01:56 .

[IntoTheDarkness]

Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 25 décembre 2012 - 03:14 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Monica21 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Also, while Gaider relates most of this plan, minus Howe probably screwing Eamon over, he admits this wasn't really made clear in-game.

Yeah, I hate that part. It really should have been made clear in-game what Loghain's intentions were with regard to Eamon. A letter in Howe's Denerim estate would have suited just fine, since it's so difficult to argue that point without Word of God, and I dislike arguing points using Word of God. The game should give me the evidence I need.

One can argue that there is some evidence pointing to it.

The desire demon claimed that it was the only thing that kept Eamon alive and that killing it would also kill him. But when the demon is killed, Eamon keeps living. So one possible and likely explanation based solely on the game is that Eamon was never dying in the first place and the demon lied.

But in any case, he should have gone in for the kill, it was stupid on his part.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 décembre 2012 - 04:13 .

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But in any case, he should have gone in for the kill, it was stupid on his part.

I dunno, I think it was the right call to only incapacitate him. Eamon dying might lead to more questions and less support. People might begin to think that it's suspicious how Cailan is dead from Loghain's "betrayal" -- as they would perceive it, but not how I see it obviously -- and how Eamon shortly after fell ill and died. Throw in the suspicious nature of the Cousland's death and there might be far too many questions on how the people that had the most amount of influence against Loghain have all died.

I mean, saying he should've killed Eamon is almost like saying he should've played a part in the Cousland's death, isn't it? Both Eamon and the Couslands were/would've been threats to his intended plans, but he doesn't really want to kill nobles. As we know, he had no part in the Cousland Massacre and he never sought Eamon's death. 

But that doesn't mean other people in Ferelden would see it that way were Eamon to have died alongside the Cousland line and Cailan.

[KnightofPhoenix]

It is not comparable no.
Eamon was the bigger threat than the Couslands, for being both Cailan's closest male relative and for having huge sway within the bannorn and being the only noble who could actually unite them (something we see happening in Witch Hunt). The Couslands do not have similar sway and seem primarily interested in their own autonomy and quasi-independence (plus, the situation can be diffused with a simple marriage deal).

Loghain already looks suspicious with Eamon getting ill all of a sudden by some mysterious disease. And would look even more suspicious when he finds the cure unless he would have somehow sneaked it in. Furthermore, even in the event that he wins and cures Eamon, he would still pose a long term threat as again we see in Witch Hunt. In such a scenario, it seems to me that Machiavelli's advice was the best course of action:

"Upon this, one has to remark that men ought either to be well treated or crushed, because they can avenge themselves of lighter injuries, of more serious ones they cannot; therefore the injury that is to be done to a man ought to be of such a kind that one does not stand in fear of revenge."

But Loghain is a ****** poor politician.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 décembre 2012 - 04:54 .

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eamon was the bigger threat than the Couslands, for being both Cailan's closest male relative and for having huge sway within the bannorn and being the only noble who could actually unite them (something we see happening in Witch Hunt). The Couslands do not have similar sway and seem primarily interested in their own autonomy and quasi-independence (plus, the situation can be diffused with a simple marriage deal).

Weren't there people vying for the Couslands to have taken the throne because of their how well-liked they were and how capable at politics they were, to which Bryce refused because there was still a Theirin alive? I'd say that means they hold a great deal of sway within the Bannorn.

Also, don't forget that 2 centuries prior Avernus and Sophia sought out the Cousland family because with them they had a shot at overthrowing Arland the Tyrant. Now, assuming of course that their political influence hasn't waned since then, then this goes to show that they are indeed people that have similar sway.

Indeed, it seems I was right to believe that as Darrien says that Bryce is a well respected, popular, and intelligent man whom many people believe should've been king as opposed to Cailan.

EDIT: And it should be noted that in DAII, under an Alistair/Anora marriage, the codex implies that the whole Eamon being a rival schtick isn't an issue, saying that the nation has prospered under their joint marriage. As best as it can, given the severity of the Blight.

Loghain already looks suspicious with Eamon getting ill all of a sudden by some mysterious disease. And would look even more suspicious when he finds the cure unless he would have somehow sneaked it in.

As I haven't played DAO in some time, my memory on certain dialogue segments may be fuzzy but... did Isolde know about Loghain sending Jowan to her? Before Jowan was caught in the act?

But Loghain is a ****** poor politician.

Always has been, yup.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 décembre 2012 - 05:19 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Weren't there people vying for the Couslands to have taken the throne because of their how well-liked they were and how capable at politics they were, to which Bryce refused because there was still a Theirin alive? I'd say that means they hold a great deal of sway within the Bannorn.

By "bannorn", I am talking about the geographic location and not all the banns. Even Loghain had the most support in terms of how many nobles were on his side.

IIRC, Bryce's "nomination" was very narrow to that of  Cailan and we do not know that he had support from the bannorn region. Plus him refusing it to me shows that he's not that interested in ruling Ferelden, at least in such a contested fashion. Thus showing that if the Couslands were indeed popular, they were not on a sufficient enough scale that they would be uncontested. 

In my mind, Loghai's alliance with Howe, who was practically best buds with Bryce, was at least partially a means to get the Couslands on his side and if not, to deprive them of an ally. Plus, a male Cousland could be made to marry Anora and thus create a powerful alliance. Indeed, if I was Loghain, I would have eliminated Cailan a long time ago and arranged such a marriage. It's more complicated with a female though, but there's bound to be a Cousland relative somewhere. Perhaps even Fergus' son can be made to marry Anora once he becomes old enough.

EDIT: the nation prospering has little to do with Eamon amassing power in the bannorn.

As I haven't played DAO in some time, my memory on certain dialogue segments may be fuzzy but... did Isolde know about Loghain sending Jowan to her? Before Jowan was caught in the act?

I do not believe so no. But Isolde is clueless.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 décembre 2012 - 05:27 .

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

By "bannorn", I am talking about the geographic location and not all the banns. Even Loghain had the most support in terms of how many nobles were on his side.

Ah, I see. Well in Loghain's case, part of that was due to his alliance with Howe and lesser nobles fearing repercussions -- Ceorlic, for instance, is rumored to only be on Loghain's side because his lands are so close to Loghain's.

As I think on it though, the Couslands probably weren't as much of a threat because Fergus and Bryce would've actually been at the battle and Loghain's actions may have been justified to them. So they would not have been as much of a threat as Eamon was.

Hell, they might've been able to persuade Cailan from being a reckless, arrogant, glory-hounding fool on the front lines. But I can't say what the relationship was like between the Cousland family and Cailan.

Due to Eamon not being there, being clouded by his relationship to Cailan to see the truth, and whatnot.

So while I think the Couslands have as much sway -- if not more then-- as Eamon does over the Bannorn, they would probably have been more of a boon to Loghain then a threat, were they to have survived Howe's ill-timed assault/were it to have never happened in the first place

Side note: Is it strange that talking DAO with you makes me want to play it again? 

IIRC, Bryce's "nomination" was very narrow to that of  Cailan and we do not know that he had support from the bannorn region. Plus him refusing it to me shows that he's not that interested in ruling Ferelden, at least in such a contested fashion. Thus showing that if the Couslands were indeed popular, they were not on a sufficient enough scale that they would be uncontested.

There is some evidence to your theory. In DAII on a Cousland/Alistair marriage, rumors persist that the marriage between them was only done to overthrow Anora and that Alistair isn't a true Theirin.

Of course, one has to wonder how much of that conflict was the result of Howe's slanderous lies towards the Couslands about them being traitors and working with Orlais...

In my mind, Loghai's alliance with Howe, who was practically best buds with Bryce, was at least partially a means to get the Couslands on his side and if not, to deprive them of an ally. Plus, Fergus could be made to marry Anora and thus create a powerful alliance. Indeed, if I was Loghain, I would have eliminated Cailan a long time ago and arranged such a marriage.

Well, Loghain's alliance with Howe happens either after he knows of what happened to the Couslands -- in a HN run -- or happens because he's in the dark on the whole thing until it's too late.

I much prefer my view of it on how he only sides with Howe because antagonizing the man who now controls the greater part of the Coastlands is a bad move from a military perspective and that, politically, he only did it because he sucked at politics and Howe was the only person he could turn to* while at the same time providing some aid to the war effort with the troops at his command. 

*Although I personally find Howe to be one of the dumbest politicians in Thedas. He's only marginally better then Cailan in my eyes, but that's not much of a bar to surpass.

As for marrying Fergus to Anora, I can say two things: 

1) That is indeed a shrewd move.
2) That's actually similar to an idea I thought up for my VG series a few days ago.

As for this:

It's more complicated with a female though, but there's bound to be a Cousland relative somewhere. Perhaps even Fergus' son can be made to marry Anora once he becomes old enough.

Well, Oren's like 8 and Anora's 30. I don't know how viable that marriage would be by Thedosian standards a few years down the line when Oren turns 14-18. By real life standards, might be more viable. 

The nation prospering has little to do with Eamon amassing power in the Bannorn

I would say it has a lot to do with it. Would Anora be able to get the nation to prosper with the knowledge that many people are turning to Eamon for guidance? She would have to ensure that she is the one helping the nation prosper if she wants her ideas to go about without much contention. She would have to deal with Eamon's growing influence if she wants to help the nation survive. 

And the last thing she wants is to make it seem like she needs Eamon's support for her ideas, lest that make the throne seem weak. That would run contrary to her established character as a person who wants the throne to have ample authority.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 décembre 2012 - 05:55 .