64 réponses à ce sujet

[hoorayforicecream]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Framed narrative worked well when you are passively watching a movie or reading a book. Not so much when playing a game.

Ubisoft's first Prince of Persia, all of the Assassin's Creed games, Eternal Darkness, and the first God of War would disagree.

[Asch Lavigne]

Only Wardens rode Griffins anyways. We're not Wardens anymore.

I thought Griffins were extinct. Are they back now? So if Griffins come back then will the next age be Griffin Age if this age got named because dragons came back?

[PsychoBlonde]

TristanHawke wrote...

What do you think of this? Do you prefer Framed Narrative? Happy or sad?

My preference is 100% based on how well it's implemented.  It's like comparing chocolate and bacon.  Both are awesome when they're good and substantially less awesome when they're not.

I have zero interest in arguing about degrees of awesome.  Or degrees of bad, for that matter. I just want awesome.  Whether it's awesome chocolate or awesome bacon doesn't signify all that much.

[Dave of Canada]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Framed narrative worked well when you are passively watching a movie or reading a book. Not so much when playing a game.

Ubisoft's first Prince of Persia, all of the Assassin's Creed games, Eternal Darkness, and the first God of War would disagree.

Don't forget Alpha Protocol.

[QueenPurpleScrap]

I adored Varric. He is one of my favorite characters. However, I did not like the narrative/flashback thing. They could have used him with the timejumps in a different way.
Scene: late night in his room at the Hanged Man. Notes and mementos spread across the floor. Varric writing by candlelight. You hear his thoughts as he recaps the events of the previous three years. That way you can jump through time without knowing ahead of time that you are champion.

That said, I would rather just play the game without the narrative and am glad they're not doing it again.

[The Hierophant]

deuce985 wrote...

Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalcor!!

Atmeus wrote...

I'd like to give + 1 Nomination for best post of the ever for all time on the BSN.

I'm imagining Anders riding a griffon and chasing a couple of mean Templars away yelling "Feathers!!!"

[Puzzlewell]

The last post has filled me with such nostalgic glee. :')

[Dabrikishaw]

I liked the framed narrative, but Gryphons all-of-a-sudden-not-being-extinct would be weird.

[Captain Crash]

Sorry I know Gryphons and framed narrative are important talking points, but seriously Dragon Age and Steampunk?!

Where on earth did that combo come from?!!

Modifié par Captain Crash, 19 novembre 2012 - 11:19 .

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

TristanHawke wrote...

They aren't going with the same approach to narrative they did with DA2. The story won't be told from someones point of view.

Tweets from Mark Darrah

.@JamesWrightNI
-not a steampunk setting
-Still in the Dragon Age so no huge time jumps
-no gryphon riding (sorry)
-not a framed narrative

Additional tweet from Mark

@SusanneSaville
Da2 had Varric as a narrator telling the entire story (like Princess Bride) DA3 doesn't do that

---

What do you think of this? Do you prefer Framed Narrative? Happy or sad?

Good. Griffons are extinct anyway and should stay that way.

As for the framing narrative, well, it was a good idea for one game. I like Varric a lot and wouldn't be at all opposed to him making an appearance or appearances in future titles. DA II might have been more effective if Cassandra had been interviewing more than one subject; at least then we really could have really questioned the reliability of each narrator's story and been left wondering where Hawke the man (or woman) ended and where the legend began, rather than just having Cassandra calling Varric out on his BS...

But yeah, the framing narrative does not need to be a thing and I'm glad they're not making it one.

Yeah on the no steampunk thing. It's overdone and steampunk aesthetics were a lot cooler before people turned into a cosplay/ lifestyle thing.





Besides there are other off-shoots of cyberpunk that are underutilized, such as sandalpunk, biopunk, iPunk (see Examples, by period in the TVTropes article). Not suggesting any of these need to be applied to Dragon Age, but just generally speaking.

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 22 novembre 2012 - 12:43 .

[Knight of Dane]

Good news all of it

[AppealToReason]

I didn't mind the framed narrative at all but I don't feel as I'll miss it. It didn't really add much to me but I never felt it took anything away.

I'm actually glad there won't be mounts. I've never really played a game where mounts have worked effectively, let alone if you have a party with you. Usually mounts just feel too damn clunky

[Knight of Dane]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Framed narrative worked well when you are passively watching a movie or reading a book. Not so much when playing a game.

Ubisoft's first Prince of Persia, all of the Assassin's Creed games, Eternal Darkness, and the first God of War would disagree.

None of which are RPG's though.

[Maria Caliban]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Yeah on the no steampunk thing. It's overdone and steampunk aesthetics were a lot cooler before people turned into a cosplay/ lifestyle thing.

Dishonored is the only game I can think of with a steampunk aesthetic. Arcanum and the gnomes in WoW have a mixture of magic and industrial era tech, though that's not strictly steampunk.

Actually, I recall a faction in a RTS game that was steampunk. League of Legends?

I wouldn't say it's overdone. Especially when you compare it to the pseudo-European pseudo-Middle Ages of Thedas, which seems to make up 80% of epic fantasy.

Knight of Dane wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Framed narrative worked well when you are passively watching a movie or reading a book. Not so much when playing a game.

Ubisoft's first Prince of Persia, all of the Assassin's Creed games, Eternal Darkness, and the first God of War would disagree.

None of which are RPG's though.

That has nothing to do with her point, but I'll add Alpha Protocol and the Witcher 2 to the pile.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 22 novembre 2012 - 01:27 .

[The Six Path of Pain]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Only Wardens rode Griffins anyways. We're not Wardens anymore.

I thought Griffins were extinct. Are they back now? So if Griffins come back then will the next age be Griffin Age if this age got named because dragons came back?

If you talk with Alistair at Ostagar he tells you that there are a few left in Fereldan and a few more in a couple of other countries.But they could have retconed it as mistress Woolsey in Awakening said that they are extinct.But who knows the Grey Wardens might only tell those within their order about the existence of the last few Griffons so they can protect them.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Elfman wrote...

TinuHawke wrote...

I must sound rather stupid, but well... What is steampunk?

Best thing ever. Kind of gothic, Victorian sci-fi, only the technology is based mainly on steam power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk

Steampunk has gears.

[Teddie Sage]

Can we expect a Varric cameo at least?

[Imp of the Perverse]

I thought the framed narrative approach was kind of interesting, and it made sense for DA2 since that whole game was pretty much setting the stage for a big conflict that was ongoing at the time the story was being told. It sort of interferes with immersion though, which is one thing DAO really had going for it.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Yeah on the no steampunk thing. It's overdone and steampunk aesthetics were a lot cooler before people turned into a cosplay/ lifestyle thing.

Dishonored is the only game I can think of with a steampunk aesthetic. Arcanum and the gnomes in WoW have a mixture of magic and industrial era tech, though that's not strictly steampunk.

Actually, I recall a faction in a RTS game that was steampunk. League of Legends?

I wouldn't say it's overdone. Especially when you compare it to the pseudo-European pseudo-Middle Ages of Thedas, which seems to make up 80% of epic fantasy.

Here's a list of steampunk-themed and quasi-steampunk games. I can assure you that Dishonered is not even the only recent one with the trappings of that sub-genre/ aesthetic.

The mixture you are describing in Arcanum and WoW is called 'magitech'.

True, Dragon Age has a very typical setting, one which is the nevertheless incredibly well-done. It's not that I hate steampunk, it's just that I don't necessarily want to see it applied to Dragon Age anytime soon, if ever.

Qunari in Victorian gentlemen's evening wear with mechanized monocles and elves in top hats... just no. That transition worked fine in Fable 2 and 3, but I don't want to see it happen in DA. An age only lasts a hundred years in Thedas, and with Fereldan, and I assume its neighbours apart from the Free Marches, in a period similar to the High Middle Ages/ Early Renaissance, I don't see any reason to go clockpunk or for outright Victorian stylings.

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 22 novembre 2012 - 05:24 .

[Vitlen]

Good!

[Raydiva]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Only Wardens rode Griffins anyways. We're not Wardens anymore.

I thought Griffins were extinct. Are they back now? So if Griffins come back then will the next age be Griffin Age if this age got named because dragons came back?

If you talk with Alistair at Ostagar he tells you that there are a few left in Fereldan and a few more in a couple of other countries.But they could have retconed it as mistress Woolsey in Awakening said that they are extinct.But who knows the Grey Wardens might only tell those within their order about the existence of the last few Griffons so they can protect them.

Or could be that griffons are thought to be extinct but are not really.  Didn't they think that dragons were extinct in the previous age and that is how this age got the name 'Dragon' cause of a dragon started rampaging proving that dragons were not as gone as everyone thought?

[Maria Caliban]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Here's a list of steampunk-themed and quasi-steampunk games. I can assure you that Dishonered is not even the only recent one with the trappings of that sub-genre/ aesthetic.

While it lists the games I mentioned, it also lists games I'd never consider steampunk. Syberia is set in late 1990s and had real planes and cell phones. Alice: The Madness Returns is based on Alice in Wonderland and parts of it take place in a (non-magical) industrial era England. Blood Omen 2 has alchemical technology but your enemies fight with swords, shields, and armor, giving it a medieval feel.

Even if all of these qualified as steampunk, I still wouldn't call it overdone.

[Sylvius the Mad]

DA2 had both a framed narrative AND an unreliable narrator. Discarding one does not require they discard the other.

Which explains why they denied each individually.

I liked the unreliable narrator. I hope they use it again someday.

[nightscrawl]

TristanHawke wrote...

@SusanneSaville
Da2 had Varric as a narrator telling the entire story (like Princess Bride) DA3 doesn't do that

I'm very happy about this.

thats1evildude wrote...

That's OK. The framed narrative in DA2 was an interesting device and it served its purpose in condensing a 10-year time span, but I wouldn't want to see every game told in that way.

You do make an interesting point with condensing the time span. That said, while I really like Varric, continually seeing people using the unreliable narrator as an argument to make various points has been rather annoying, and I'd rather just have a straightforward story that I can base my opinions on.

Also, on some level, I also feel like it somehow invalidates my play(s). Other than the final result, which is the same regardless of the players' choices, and also seeing the buildup in the mage/templar conflict for DA3, what was the point if anyone can just say "but you don't know that such-and-such happened because Varric is telling the story, and we all know he lies."

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed DA2 immensely, but I don't feel that I can trust 90% of the content in it as a part of the story of Thedas because of the unreliable narrator.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 22 novembre 2012 - 07:48 .