258 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Is it genocide to shoot the tube if the Destroy wave hits a debris field over Rannoch? EDI is the only non-Reaper death resulting from it.

Killing the Geth beforehand would be genocide.

[drayfish]

Eterna5 wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Is part of it perhaps being blinded to the genocide because you just want the satisfaction of blowing that condescending little Catalyst snot bag to hell?

No, he is deleted in control too. 

Overwritten, not 'sploded.

What I'm asking is: is the torching of his empire and everything he stands for bit a part of the equation?

Modifié par drayfish, 19 novembre 2012 - 11:38 .

[KingZayd]

drayfish wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Is part of it perhaps being blinded to the genocide because you just want the satisfaction of blowing that condescending little Catalyst snot bag to hell?

No, he is deleted in control too. 

Overwritten, not 'sploded.

What I'm asking is: is the torching of his empire and everything he stands for bit a part of the equation?

For all we know, Shepard merges with Starchild, rather than replacing.

[xsdob]

I think destroy is a waste of two species, reapers and geth, both of which can survive and live in peaceful co-existence in the control ending without splicing the universe together.

That and I feel it was shepards destiny to either become the godhero of the universe or manage it while almost dying, so really either choice works for me.

BTW my shepard got out of the rubble and reuinited with my LI because I said so, end of that discussion.

Modifié par xsdob, 19 novembre 2012 - 11:48 .

[Eterna]

KingZayd wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Is part of it perhaps being blinded to the genocide because you just want the satisfaction of blowing that condescending little Catalyst snot bag to hell?

No, he is deleted in control too. 

Overwritten, not 'sploded.

What I'm asking is: is the torching of his empire and everything he stands for bit a part of the equation?

For all we know, Shepard merges with Starchild, rather than replacing.

No, the catalyst even says he will not enjoy being replaced by Shepard but he would be forced to accept it. 

Overwritten, not 'sploded.

What I'm asking is: is the torching of his empire and everything he stands for bit a part of the equation?

Well I usually pick Destroy on my more passionate and impulsive Shepards that tend to lean renegade or Paragade, so perhaps. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 19 novembre 2012 - 11:44 .

[Reorte]

Not the genocide misunderstanding yet again. It isn't genocide unless you choose it with the intention of killing the geth or have a better alternative available. The definition of genocide is not "killing lots" or "killing all of a particular group."

[cyrexwingblade]

"The deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation."

So yes, I call it genocide.

[KingZayd]

xsdob wrote...

I think destroy is a waste of two species, reapers and geth, both of which can survive and leave in peaceful co-existence in the control ending without splicing the universe together.

That and I feel it was shepards destiny to either become the godhero of the universe or manage it while almost dying, so really either choice works for me.

BTW my shepard got out of the rubble and reuinited with my LI because I said so, end of that discussion.

Reapers are a waste of many species. They also have made no attempts to be peaceful at all. There is no issue with killing the Reapers.

The Geth are a different matter.

[Reorte]

KingZayd wrote...

For all we know, Shepard merges with Starchild, rather than replacing.

IMO the most plausible explanation is that the Catalyst's personality gets replaced with one based on Shepard. Same bit of software, different interface.

[Lazengan]

can't we just save the geth and EDI on a USB?

[Reorte]

cyrexwingblade wrote...

"The deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation."

So yes, I call it genocide.

Apart from the "deliberate" part. It's large scale manslaughter not large scale murder.

Modifié par Reorte, 19 novembre 2012 - 11:46 .

[Aaleel]

cyrexwingblade wrote...

"The deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation."

So yes, I call it genocide.

So then everyone who played arrival committed genocide then.  Because ITT as long as an action kills a large group of people of one race it's genocide.

[Zardoc]

Reorte wrote...

Not the genocide misunderstanding yet again. It isn't genocide unless you choose it with the intention of killing the geth or have a better alternative available. The definition of genocide is not "killing lots" or "killing all of a particular group."

Genocide -  deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group

Modifié par Zardoc, 19 novembre 2012 - 11:49 .

[Bill Casey]

Aaleel wrote...

So then everyone who played arrival committed genocide then.  Because ITT as long as an action kills a large group of people of one race it's genocide.

That's correct...
Everyone who played Arrival committed genocide just to delay the Reapers for a few months...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 19 novembre 2012 - 11:51 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Reorte wrote...

Not the genocide misunderstanding yet again. It isn't genocide unless you choose it with the intention of killing the geth or have a better alternative available. The definition of genocide is not "killing lots" or "killing all of a particular group."

the point is, that you actually have other choices at hand. its not like: "well its them or we all go to hell." - not that the other endings are any better.

- forced uniformation and uplifting of individials who may not ready for the cultural shock
- playing god/hegemon/dictator by intrumentalizing the reapers (incarnations of murder, terror and genocide)
- doing nothing and let the next cycle face the music


all endings are questionable and equally disgusting.

[Reorte]

Zardoc wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Not the genocide misunderstanding yet again. It isn't genocide unless you choose it with the intention of killing the geth or have a better alternative available. The definition of genocide is not "killing lots" or "killing all of a particular group."

Genocide -  deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group

Exactly. That's why the geth dying in Destroy isn't genocide unless you picked it in order to kill them. Ditto if they die on Rannoch unless you've got the option to make peace and don't take it.

[KingZayd]

Reorte wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

"The deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation."

So yes, I call it genocide.

Apart from the "deliberate" part. It's large scale manslaughter not large scale murder.

Intentionally destroying the Geth would be genocide. Even if its not your main objective. If you don't believe it's really going to happen then I guess it would be large scale manslaughter.

[Bill Casey]

It's collateral genocide...

[Reorte]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Not the genocide misunderstanding yet again. It isn't genocide unless you choose it with the intention of killing the geth or have a better alternative available. The definition of genocide is not "killing lots" or "killing all of a particular group."

the point is, that you actually have other choices at hand. its not like: "well its them or we all go to hell." - not that the other endings are any better.

- forced uniformation and uplifting of individials who may not ready for the cultural shock
- playing god/hegemon/dictator by intrumentalizing the reapers (incarnations of murder, terror and genocide)
- doing nothing and let the next cycle face the music


all endings are questionable and equally disgusting.

Sure they are all questionable and disgusting but not equally disgusting. The fact that you don't in Arrival makes that even more unambiguously not genocide by the way.

[xsdob]

KingZayd wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I think destroy is a waste of two species, reapers and geth, both of which can survive and leave in peaceful co-existence in the control ending without splicing the universe together.

That and I feel it was shepards destiny to either become the godhero of the universe or manage it while almost dying, so really either choice works for me.

BTW my shepard got out of the rubble and reuinited with my LI because I said so, end of that discussion.

Reapers are a waste of many species. They also have made no attempts to be peaceful at all. There is no issue with killing the Reapers.

The Geth are a different matter.

After the control ending, that's why I used past tense in my sentence structure. Sorry if you don't speak english as a first language, as that's happened before and was very embarassing when I corrected that person, but that statement was meant to state that the reapers after control ending can live in peaceful co-existence with the rest of the galaxy, and that it doens't require fusing everyone's dna to do so.

There is a bit of an issue, which is that the reapers themselves may have been forced into obeying the catalyst, with the expection of a few reapers who may have had a genetic variable that made them more individualistic in reaper form such as harbinger, rather that doing this for their own pleasure or satisfaction.

Had they been indoctrinated, this would be like charging everyone who ends up under leviathans control for what they did while under their influence. If they are more hive mind like in nature, than this would be like trying to kill off an entire county and all it's populace becasue of a single individual, which is not okay. And if they are completly mindless, than this is like destroying all cars, or all guns in the world, becasue of a single individual who used one to commit crimes.

That's my view on it though, but I do see the destroy point of view, and that's why I have it as a cannon ending as well.

[DirtySHISN0]

Yate wrote...

Destroying the Geth is not genocide and no amount of fan whining will change that fact my opinion.

Different people have different opinions and that's ok.

[MegaSovereign]

Yesmar wrote...

Good god you did 8 playthroughs.

By the end of the year I will have finished 12.

*flexes nerd muscles*

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 19 novembre 2012 - 11:55 .

[xsdob]

Bill Casey wrote...

It's collateral genocide...

I'm sure the ones who get mass murdered simply for existing feel so much better with that excuse.

Oh wait, no they don't, because the dead do not feel anything.

On the bright side though, they probably won't bear any ill will towards you, since they'll be dead and thus have no ability to have an opinion.

[Reorte]

KingZayd wrote...

Reorte wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

"The deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation."

So yes, I call it genocide.

Apart from the "deliberate" part. It's large scale manslaughter not large scale murder.

Intentionally destroying the Geth would be genocide. Even if its not your main objective. If you don't believe it's really going to happen then I guess it would be large scale manslaughter.

Intentionally obviously implies intent, the reason you're making that decision. It's like a military offensive that you know will kill civilians. That may not be a war crime (depending upon plenty of other circumstances). Launching it just to kill them would be one.

[Yate]

cyrexwingblade wrote...

Yate wrote...

destroying the geth is not genocide, and no amount of fan whining will change that fact

Your xenophobia doesn't make it not genocide, no matter how much hyper-cynical whining you spew onto the forums.

What about if you hit a magic off button that deactivated all geth momentarily? Would that be genocide? Or are you willing to accept that computers are different from people?