186 réponses à ce sujet

[TommyNg]

Sometimes gold teamates so weak that even a non AF fury+eagle can outscore them

[krknight]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

krknight wrote...
because of the automatic primer.  warp has a long cooldown. 

Hey ******, both DC and Warp have a base cooldown of eight seconds.

yeah?  and which of these eight second cooldown primers automatically primes your next target so you don't have to waste another eight seconds?  or did this all just go over your head?

[Darkstar Aurora]

Dark Channel/Throw explosions are inferior to Warp/Throw explosions because Warp has a Detonate evolution that combines with the similar option for throw in addition to debuffing the target and increasing the radius of the biotic explosion itself. On platinum that means losing an extra 2,400 points of armor/barrier damage per 2.9 second cycle.

The only way the Fury can compete with an Asari Adept on ranged biotic explosions is by stacking iterative detonations off of a single use of Dark Channel---which is only viable and timeframe efficient against clusters of trooper-rank enemies. The problem is that you do not need biotic explosions to kill trooper rank enemies, and even then detonation damage from a Dark Channel/Throw combo is not sufficient to kill one on its own--they either need to wait for Dark Channel to bleed the target out or rely on assists and/or your weapons to finish them off.

Acolyte + Throw + Incendiary/Cryo Ammo is all that is needed to kill of anything without armor, and anything with armor will be dropped far more quickly by an Asari Commando's Warp + Throw combo.

The N7 Fury without any points in Annihilation Field at all is is basiclly 2/3 of an adept.

Modifié par Darkstar Aurora, 20 novembre 2012 - 06:54 .

[SixDN9nE]

Omfg this again? This is such a dumb thing to do. Fury without AF is a gimp version of any other adept. Beating the **** out of yourself with a nerf bat. Dumb build, dumb idea. No point at all other than "lets see how gimp I can build a fury, then run silver to prove it isn't a waste of a fury"

[krknight]

Darkstar Aurora wrote...

Dark Channel/Throw explosions are inferior to Warp/Throw explosions because Warp has a Detonate evolution that combines with the similar option for throw in addition to debuffing the target and increasing the radius of the biotic explosion itself. On platinum that means losing an extra 2,400 points of armor/barrier damage per 2.9 second cycle.

The only way the Fury can compete with an Asari Adept on ranged biotic explosions is by stacking iterative detonations off of a single use of Dark Channel---which is only viable and timeframe efficient against clusters of trooper-rank enemies. The problem is that you do not need biotic explosions to kill trooper rank enemies, and even then detonation damage from a Dark Channel/Throw combo is not sufficient to kill one on its own--they either need to wait for Dark Channel to bleed the target out or rely on assists and/or your weapons to finish them off.

Acolyte + Throw + Incendiary/Cryo Ammo is all that is needed to kill of anything without armor, and anything with armor will be dropped far more quickly by an Asari Commando's Warp + Throw combo.

The N7 Fury without any points in Annihilation Field at all is is basiclly 2/3 of an adept.

this is all true.  you can followup with another throw as well if the DC/throw combo doesn't kill one on its own.  i add a headshot with a carni or acolyte once before another throw if i don't think the second throw will finish the job on its own.

one difference with the DC/throw, is that in a group of enemies with bosses, you can aim for an underling with DC/throw and get two BE's in a shorter amount of time.  once the DC jumps to the boss, throw to detonate, then rechannel another underling for another two for one.  also, i find warp to be highly unreliable whereas DC i find fairly unreliable.

in no way do i think a fury without AF is efficient, but i do think it could get the job done.

 

[krknight]

Flaming Snake wrote...

Topping the scoreboard on silver with a fury... Yeah, that's no any way to judge the build. Try bringing that into a Gold game with me and my AF specced Fury, you'll lose.

AF has too many benefits to skip. You're doing it wrong. Might as well just use a AA and skip stasis. It's basically the same thing.

i don't think OP is implying the fury is better without AF.  maybe he did somewhere.  i got the notion that he can do without AF.  that's all.

[Kuro_Fenikkusu]

I run my fury on plat. Specced out of AF, and I rock an N7 Eagle. I come out on top 9/10 games.

[vivanto]

krknight wrote...
yeah?  and which of these eight second cooldown primers automatically primes your next target so you don't have to waste another eight seconds?  or did this all just go over your head?

One can only chaing-explode things with a single cast of DC on husks and other trash, which is a waste of a character slot. On anything meaningful, you'll need several primer and detonator casts, and those bosses can't dodge anyway, not to mention the superior debuffing of warp.

In the end, it's depends wether you just want to deal with trash or bosses. Difference is that everyone can deal with trash, even then, AF is more effective against husks.

Modifié par vivanto, 20 novembre 2012 - 07:34 .

[krknight]

Kuro_Fenikkusu wrote...

I run my fury on plat. Specced out of AF, and I rock an N7 Eagle. I come out on top 9/10 games.

can you enlighten all the naysayers with your build and loadout?

[krknight]

vivanto wrote...

krknight wrote...
yeah?  and which of these eight second cooldown primers automatically primes your next target so you don't have to waste another eight seconds?  or did this all just go over your head?

One can only chain-explode things with a single cast of DC on husks and other trash, which is a waste of a character slot. On anything meaningful, you'll need several primer and detonator casts, and those bosses can't dodge anyway, not to mention the superior debuffing of warp.

In the end, it depends wether you just want do deal with trash or bosses. Difference is that everyone can deal with trash, even then, AF is more effective against husks.

this thread boils down to efficiency.  although i personally disagree with the non-AF build, i think people are overlooking a few things when they compare a non-AF build versus a non-stasis AA build.  

sure, everyone can deal with the trash, but your strategies with both characters are going to be different versus a boss with accompanying troops.  if it's just a boss, warp/throw will be most efficient no argument.  but when you have to account for a mob on top of a boss, you're cleaning out the trash must faster with DC/throw when a warp/throw on a husk is extremely inefficient.

the teleport is also another advantage for the fury.  i'm not arguing that a non-AF build is efficient.  i'm not even arguing that it's as good as a non-stasis AA.  i'm arguing that you can get the job done without AF, on gold mind you, as long as you know what you're doing.  

Modifié par krknight, 20 novembre 2012 - 07:46 .

[Cornughon]

Wouldn't it be better to use a stasisless Asari Adept instead? More powerful Biotic Explosions such things?

This is probably like playing a Krogan Battlemaster specced out of Biotic Charge. You can do extemely well with it on Silver, but is far less effective on Gold or Platinum...

[Star fury]

Kuro_Fenikkusu wrote...

I run my fury on plat. Specced out of AF, and I rock an N7 Eagle. I come out on top 9/10 games.

Give us a link to your profile, mr. Badass.

[SavagelyEpic]

RoZh2400 wrote...

inb4 notgoldsoinvalid

but...you're not on gold. Try it then and notice how your strategy (argus 2? really?) fails.

Lol.

Yes, use a weapon that weighs heavier than a truck and punches as soft as a toddler on a Fury specced out of AF.

Why the hell would you do that? If you're going to drop AF, then just use the AA. Warp+Throw is better than DC+Throw. I don't care if it jumps to another target, half the time it doesn't even work and that's just a +50% BE whereas Warp+Throw is BE*(1.5)*(1.5)*(1.15). 

Do the math.


And that's if you were using a light weapon. With something as heavy as an Argus 2 you're basically playing an amazingly, hardcore gimped soldier. Wait, you're trying to play an adept as a soldier, more like.

:. You should feel bad.

[poonts]

what everyone else said.

plus blehhhhh

[poonts]

and enuff with "fury is only for mooks"

simply not true. go dance with a scion

[JG The Gamer]

My guess is that the OP is entirely uncomfortable getting point blank with the enemy so that AF takes effect. Some people laugh in the face of danger, others are more cautious.

OP, find what's comfortable for you. Keep at it, keep experimenting and perhaps one day you'll feel more comfortable getting in close with AF.

[SavagelyEpic]

JG The Gamer wrote...

My guess is that the OP is entirely uncomfortable getting point blank with the enemy so that AF takes effect. Some people laugh in the face of danger, others are more cautious.

OP, find what's comfortable for you. Keep at it, keep experimenting and perhaps one day you'll feel more comfortable getting in close with AF.

If he's uncomfortable with certain characters shouldn't it stand to reason that he should play different characters which suit his playstyle better instead of trying to massacre a specific character trying to get it to conform to his playstyle?

[FlowCytometry]

Eh., its not a great build, but if all ur doing is silver then I dun see the big deal. If you just want to play Fury for reasons other getting in people's faces (her cool outfit, flip-dodge, tele-dodge, voice, w/e) then have fun w/ it. But some time you should try the rusher build, even w/o constantly running up to enemies AF is worth it since some enemies rush *you* anyways, and AF can 'cc' some enemies and keep you up w/ the shield drain evolve in those cases. Her traininhg tree isn't all that important to max out if ur BE focused as none of the power passive boost BE dmg, and if ur playing safer at range you'll need fitness less, so you can certainly find points for AF regardless.

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:20 .

[JG The Gamer]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

JG The Gamer wrote...

My guess is that the OP is entirely uncomfortable getting point blank with the enemy so that AF takes effect. Some people laugh in the face of danger, others are more cautious.

OP, find what's comfortable for you. Keep at it, keep experimenting and perhaps one day you'll feel more comfortable getting in close with AF.

If he's uncomfortable with certain characters shouldn't it stand to reason that he should play different characters which suit his playstyle better instead of trying to massacre a specific character trying to get it to conform to his playstyle?

I can make the same argument for the N7 Destroyer. I was uncomfortable with missiles. Now I use them. On the topic of the Fury, if it works for the OP, he can do whatever he wants with it. It's not like he's auditioning for an elite group of hardcore players with rigid builds and strict rules.

I say instead of chewing out the OP, why not offer guidance instead? Offer tips and suggestions on how to make AF work for him if you're that desperate to drag him out of his comfort zone.

[SavagelyEpic]

JG The Gamer wrote...

SavagelyEpic wrote...

JG The Gamer wrote...

My guess is that the OP is entirely uncomfortable getting point blank with the enemy so that AF takes effect. Some people laugh in the face of danger, others are more cautious.

OP, find what's comfortable for you. Keep at it, keep experimenting and perhaps one day you'll feel more comfortable getting in close with AF.

If he's uncomfortable with certain characters shouldn't it stand to reason that he should play different characters which suit his playstyle better instead of trying to massacre a specific character trying to get it to conform to his playstyle?

I can make the same argument for the N7 Destroyer. I was uncomfortable with missiles. Now I use them. On the topic of the Fury, if it works for the OP, he can do whatever he wants with it. It's not like he's auditioning for an elite group of hardcore players with rigid builds and strict rules.

I say instead of chewing out the OP, why not offer guidance instead? Offer tips and suggestions on how to make AF work for him if you're that desperate to drag him out of his comfort zone.

Hardly. Using Missiles doesn't alter your playstyle. You're still going to be using the Destroyer as a soldier with or without the ML. The same arguement therefore does not apply.

On the topic of "elite groups", you'd be surprised. Exceptional players are the ones with the least rigid builds, provided they don't look like something you'd get if you sat ten blindfolded monkeys down in front of a computer and then chose the worst resultant build.

Also, please point out to me where I have been chewing out the OP or been desperate to drag him out of his comfort zone. I say you're starting to blend everyone who disagrees with the OP and are amalgating them into a single person.

Nevertheless, I already did offer guidance in the form of irrefutable math and numbers.

Modifié par SavagelyEpic, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:29 .

[nicethugbert]

ToLazy4Name wrote...

No offense man, but honestly, anything works on difficulties below Gold.

Not saying you're bad or that you shouldn't play her like that, but that's my assessment.

[vivanto]

krknight wrote...

vivanto wrote...
[..]

this thread boils down to efficiency.  although i personally disagree with the non-AF build, i think people are overlooking a few things when they compare a non-AF build versus a non-stasis AA build.  
[..]

I beleive that the non-Stasis AA is generally more accepted, which isn't surprising considering how much stasis was nerfed and that it doesn't synergize as well with the other two powers.

My point was, that by dumping AF, you're just creating an existing character instead of playing something completely different. I can accept the for fun reasons, afterall I play both female quarians as well.

But trying to justify it by being more effective simply won't work. Killing trash is indeed important on all but plat, but the AF fury is better at it, while on plat, an AA is supposedly better than any Fury.

PS: I personally prefer the Asari dodge, but that doesn't really affect my character choice.

[HolyAvenger]

DC is instantaneous and hitscan, unlike Warp which can be dodged, and often is.

There's one automatic advantage that DC offers over Warp for players who are...less skilled.

[krknight]

vivanto wrote...

I beleive that the non-Stasis AA is generally more accepted, which isn't surprising considering how much stasis was nerfed and that it doesn't synergize as well with the other two powers.

My point was, that by dumping AF, you're just creating an existing character instead of playing something completely different. I can accept the for fun reasons, afterall I play both female quarians as well.

But trying to justify it by being more effective simply won't work. Killing trash is indeed important on all but plat, but the AF fury is better at it, while on plat, an AA is supposedly better than any Fury.

PS: I personally prefer the Asari dodge, but that doesn't really affect my character choice.

i agree pretty much with everything you're saying.  i don't know which gun the argus is, but i don't think the OP's build deserves all the hate, or even all the debate that it's gotten.  maybe i need to reread his original post if he's trying to imply that his build is more efficient.  on any biotics team where everyone knows what they're doing, AF is definitely one of the top, if not the best biotic power.  

i just think with all the mods, gears, and consumables, even a novaguard without biotic charge could make it through gold and do so without much problem.  i'd be surprised if there was a build that had powers specced in such a way that mods, gears, and consumables couldn't get through gold.